Everyone who believes Paul's gospel
By the way and you can disagree but only Israel was said to be born again........Israel was called the firstborn of God and had to be spiritually born again by faith in Christ
THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST
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By the way and you can disagree but only Israel was said to be born again........Israel was called the firstborn of God and had to be spiritually born again by faith in Christ
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the "firstborn" and everyone who is born again belongs to the "household of God"... and that is the body of Christ, the NT Church.
So. Then you are saying you are not born again ???? , as i know you are not a Jew... or are you saying you are a born again GENTILE, and you are the "body of Christ".
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
LOL! Nope, Peter and Paul preached the same Gospel, thus Paul was able to call Peter out for not walking according to THE (one) truth of THE (one) Gospel--they both agreed about the same regulations they were held to walk according to, thus Peter was able to humbly receive the correction Paul brought.
The reality is that, as we see with Peter, there is an ultimate truth that is true in the Gospel, but there is also the person's personal conscience that is true--and the person is not permitted to cross the boundary of their personal conviction for the sake of the ultimate truth. They may not be there yet, and that is OK. One example is the vegan who believes (and this is the example given in Ro 14)--he is actually sinning if he goes against his conscience, irrespective the higher, ultimate, reality of the Gospel that it is OK to eat meat, because he is not "there", yet, in his conscience, not able to conform to the actual truth that is true in the Gospel. The same goes with someone who is not there yet with eating food sacrificed to idols--Paul says it's fine, but it is a sin to cause one of these little ones who believes in Jesus to stumble by becoming an occasion for them to injure their conscience.
God calls us to peace--and going against your conscience threatens to destabilize one's peace.
This is also seen with Peter--though it was a truth in the Gospel that he was not under the Law, he says, "Not so, Lord, for nothing unclean has ever touched my lips" when the Lord said "rise kill and eat [unclean food]", and, so, we see that he was walking according to his Torah-informed conscience, and he was actually held to his conscience, just as the vegan, just as the one who is accustomed to the idol (who cannot eat idol-sacrificed food), BUT, in due time, the Spirit of Truth led him in to all the truth, revealing to him, in a vision, the actual truth of the Gospel that he was not under the Law anymore.
(Peter didn't have the vocabulary for it, didn't know the next steps of the dance, but, nevertheless, he was under the selfsame Gospel as Paul--Paul, however, having been more acquainted with the Scriptures, had the vocabulary for it, with the help of the Spirit of Grace. It was his calling, God having formed him for that purpose, to help others, to dispense God's grace, giving the audience their food, milk or meat, in due time.)
This dynamic of the truth is exemplified in Ro 14, where Paul tells the believing Jewish and Gentile audience that there is a single Law for both the native (Jew) and the sojourner (Gentile) : each man must be fully convinced in his own mind. The Jew who observes a day observes it in full persuasion as unto the Lord, and the Gentile who does not observe the day does not observe it in full persuasion as unto the Lord--and both are accepted because they are walking in full persuasion (but "what ever is not of faith is sin" with the result that the sinning Christian "is condemned" Ro 14:23), irrespective whether it aligns with the ultimate truth of the Gospel, which God will eventually lead them into as long as they keep consistent and their consciences clean.
This again explains Peter's acceptability irrespective his not having known or walked in the ultimate truth of the Gospel that he was not under Law... until the vision was given to him... releasing him from the weakness of the ignorance that he had been bound to (even before God, he was bound to keep those things, because it was his conscience).
This was why I'd asked whether you, with your "remnant of Israel Church" and "body of Christ Church" dividing, had been trying to solve the issue of the Jews' seemingly having been under Law in Acts 21--if you want, I have answers for that, as well.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Not until Peter learned it, could he preach it or teach it.
Jesus gave it to Paul, after Jesus was back in Heaven, and Paul showed up well after Acts 2.
So, if you do some study, you might be able to understand what Paul taught the apostles in Acts 15.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I am not saying I am born again......I am justified and saved unto eternal life by the redemption in Christ
Behold
Well-Known Member
You would have to be willing to learn, before i could show you some doctrine that Paul teaches.
What's that? you said you wont be learning anything from me?
Well, that is your free will.....isn't it.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Well, are you teaching that only saved Jews (Israel) are the "body of Christ"?
So, am i misunderstanding you?
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
You have something to offer, for sure, but it is obscured in ignorance. You don't know your way around Scripture, and I only follow Scripture, which you dishonor by denying the Word. It's fine, you are helpful, just not to me, because I only follow Scripture, with which you are still unacquainted. I accept that you know God, though.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You post verses and say.>>"see there, proved it"
But see, you didnt.
People like you post verses, and that's it.
A Monkey can do it, if you teach them to type.
So, anytime you want to test me, with a Verse, in the NT, that is not found in The Gospels, or in The Revelation.....then you go right ahead.
See, as i said.....im here to teach Paul's Doctrine.......and that is found in Paul's Epistles.
If you want me to teach on "The Trinity" or The "Rapture" ......i can do it for you.....but, im here to Teach Paul's Theology, as this is not known by most who spend time on "christian" Forums.
Like you.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
This has already happened countless times, but it has always led to a dead end; I no longer concern myself with it, I leave it up to God.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Oddly, he asserts only those (Jew and Gentile) who believed "Peter's Gospel" enter the "remnant of Israel Church", and, again, to him, this "remnant of Israel Church" is, ostensibly, not one and the same as "the body of Christ Church", which is entered by hearing and believing "Paul's Gospel". For many, many reasons, this makes no sense, but this is what he purports the Scriptures teach.
I am not saying that
Both Jew and Gentile can be saved by believing Paul's gospel and are in the body of Christ in this dispensation
BeforeThereWas
New Member
Well, there's replacement theology in a nut shell!
We Israeli's know better in the face of the hatred you have for us.
BTW
If you are saved, then you are born again
Being a new creation in Christ means you are born again.
And it is not under your control, not of your will. Being born of God is something God does for you.
John 1
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That[b] was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
All believe through Him, Him is Christ.
In order for you to be children of God, you must be born again.
John wrote much about being the children of God.
That is the only way to be a part of the family of God, to be His child and Him being your heavenly Father.
'Our Father who art in Heaven', the only ones who have that right to be the children of God are those who receive Him, who were born of God.
There is not any other way.
Acts 3
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you, 15 and killed the [b]Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. 16 And His name, through faith in His name, has made this man strong, whom you see and know. Yes, the faith which comes through Him has given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I think he's only objecting to Doug's idea that there are two Churches--the "remnant of Israel Church", which is entered (by Jews and Gentiles) by believing "Peter's Gospel", and "body of Christ Church", which is entered (by Jews and Gentiles) by believing "Paul's Gospel"--but I'm not acquainted with things ScottA says.
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BeforeThereWas
New Member
It's interesting, is it not, that the very first members of the Church were us Jews, not Gentiles? Gentiles were added much later, mainly through Paul's Gospel, not that of the twelve since they were commanded to preach ONLY to Israel. Those who were and are of Paul's Gospel are in the body of Christ; a designation not ever addressed to the remnant Jews.
BTW
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
The topic is Doug's empty assertion that there were two Churches--"remnant of Israel Church", of which both Jews and Gentiles were members, which was entered by believing "Peter's Gospel", and "body of Christ Church", of which both Jews and Gentiles were members, which was entered by believing "Paul's Gospel". That is Doug's idea. Was Doug's idea one that you accept or reject?
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Since you're a "New Member", and you're interacting only on Doug's posts, and you seem to be acquainted with, and actually agree with, Doug's ideas--ideas which I've never in my life come across, in any way, shape, or form--I'm going to assume you're a puppet account, and place you on ignore.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
WE have no "hatred " for Israelis. Your whole stance is therefore likely ascew.
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