THE CHURCH IS NOT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

[BeforeThereWas]

WE have no "hatred " for Israelis. Your whole stance is therefore likely ascew.

Not really. Israel will once again be raised up by the Lord who chose us, to serve His purposes in the Millennium and the New Earth. Those purposes will not involve an inclusion of Gentiles, although Israel and Gentiles will live together on the New Earth. The body of Christ, however, will be in the Heavenlies.

BTW

 

[Scott Downey]

Not really. Israel will once again be raised up by the Lord who chose us, to serve His purposes in the Millennium and the New Earth. Those purposes will not involve an inclusion of Gentiles, although Israel and Gentiles will live together on the New Earth. The body of Christ, however, will be in the Heavenlies.

BTW

The jews keep promoting an earthly kingdom and for them alone to rule it.
Do you understand there is no separation between jew and gentile in God's kingdom?
Gentiles are fellow heirs along with believing jews.

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),

5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3 - New King James Version

The Mystery Revealed - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when...

www.biblegateway.com

And whether jew or gentile, if you are not a follower of Christ, then you follow Satan and desire to do his will, fulfilling the lusts of the flesh

 

[Doug]

If you are saved, then you are born again
Being a new creation in Christ means you are born again.

If you want to use that term "born again" Scott thats ok
Technically its only spoken of by Jesus to Israel

[Jhn 3:3, 5, 7 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. ... 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ... 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus said a man must be born of water (I think is water baptism commanded Israel) and the Spirit

in verse 7 Jesus says YE which is plural, which is Israel

Israel is God's firstborn Exodus 4:22 and so would have to born again
OR Israel was born as Abrahams descendants but need spiritual birth

 

[BeforeThereWas]

The jews keep promoting an earthly kingdom and for them alone to rule it.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

I'm not sure what is meant by the idea that we "promote" that fact, because, as a fact, it stands upon the strength of scripture. More later...

Do you understand there is no separation between jew and gentile in God's kingdom?

There is indeed a separation within His Kingdom. I say that because the Kingdom is not meant for the body of Christ. Let's look at what is actually said and in what context:

Romans 10:11-13
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

As we can see, the distinctions between Jew and Gentile are of no consequence within the context of salvation's availability to all. Paul said this for a very good reason, of which we can discuss further if you so desire because most Gentiles have never been taught what scripture really says along this line. I will however provide this reference from Paul as well that I hope will help to shatter the legs of the falsehoods you have been taught so that scripture may build up something eternally lasting in the place of the weak and beggarly doctrines of falsehoods that circulate so powerfully among most Gentile circles:

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Please read these passages over and over and over, even within their context, allowing them to shatter the falsehoods you have been taught, relying ONLY upon what scripture actually says. You may indeed love those who have taught you the standard, traditional doctrines so popular among Gentiles through their bent upon replacement theology, but I can assure you that dare you let scripture speaks for itself without etherealizing and allegorizing it to death as do so many, a new understanding will begin to bud in your mind.

Gentiles are fellow heirs along with believing jews.

Yes, but only under the dispensation of Grace. It was not that way before the fall of Israel. Apart from Gentiles joining with Israel, they were without hope, just as Paul says above. The logical conclusion, then, is that Gentiles had to become proselytes of Israel...to become Jews themselves, in order to be saved. Many reject that today because of the gross ignorance of scripture for what it says. Allegory has become popular as a tool to try and make scripture say what THEY want it to say since there are no absolute, solid rules for allegory when it comes to interpretation. They do indeed have rules for that, but they are rules of each individual's own making or someone else they have chosen to follow.

Esther 8:17 And in every province, and in every city, whithersoever the king's commandment and his decree came, the Jews had joy and gladness, a feast and a good day. And many of the people of the land became Jews; for the fear of the Jews fell upon them.

If Gentiles could not become Jews, then the Bible is false. I'm sure we can agree on that point.

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— 2 if indeed you have heard of the [a]dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),

5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 3 - New King James Version

The Mystery Revealed - For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when...

www.biblegateway.com

And whether jew or gentile, if you are not a follower of Christ, then you follow Satan and desire to do his will, fulfilling the lusts of the flesh

Absolutely true. However, reading that and assuming into it the Kingdom to come in the Millennium and the New Earth, that's a practice of transplanting truths in one context and forcing it into another context where it absolutely does not belong. The Jews WILL rule the world in the Millennial Kingdom, not the Gentiles.

Scott, we who are under the Gospel of Grace, we will not be on this earth in the Millennium nor upon the New Earth. Our destiny is to dwell in Heavenly places where our treasures are located:

Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Paul intentionally spoke this in relation to all who are under his gospel, the dispensation of Grace. Notice not only what he said, but also consider what he did not say that so many out there force into this text, putting words into Paul's writing that are not there. Paul did not speak of the ancients before the cross, nor did he speak of the tribulation saints in the framework and scope of his statements. He said "us," as an inclusive that was stated within the dispensation and Gospel of Grace, not under the Kingdom Gospel. They are not entirely one and the same.

Blessings to you and yours.

BTW

 

[Scott Downey]

Kingdom of God not meant for gentiles?

2 Thessalonians 1:4-6

New King James Version

​

4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and [a]tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest[b] evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with [c]tribulation those who trouble you,

Honestly there are many verses written to gentile churches about the kingdom of God they will inherit.

BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Kingdom of God

www.biblegateway.com

There is no separation of jew and gentile, Ephesians 2 teaches that they are one body in Christ.
As there is one new man so with the inheritance of the promise.

Brought Near by His Blood​

11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

Christ Our Peace​

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

Christ Our Cornerstone​

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I see nothing in scripture that says believing jews are different from believing gentiles.
People will believe what they will.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jews are also under the dispensation of grace.
In Romans 11 Paul makes that point and even so during the old covenant times of the Law, the ones who God saved were under His grace and not under the Law.

The Law is holy and good but it made no one perfect.
If you are not reserved by the Father for salvation by grace, then you are under the Law of God, and that is not good for life as the law is a ministry of death and condemnation.

Galatians 3

Purpose of the Law​

19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

The promise by faith in Jesus Christ is given to those who believe whether jew or gentile. There is no difference
The Law deals with sinners.
The grace of God brings salvation.

Romans 11

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”
9 And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

 

[Scott Downey]

There is no promise beyond what is written, and the law and prophets ended with John the baptist

Luke 16
16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one [g]tittle of the law to fail.

Matthew 21:43
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.

The kingdom of God was taken away from the jews. They are no longer His people or a chosen nation, unless they repent and believe in Christ they are not His people and will not be saved.

The gospel of the kingdom of God will be preached in all the world to all nations, (not just the jews) and then comes THE END.
THE END, is when Christ returns, the coming of the Son of Man to judge this world.
THE END is the end of this world in fiery destruction, just as 2 Thessalonians 1 foretells us.
THE END though, we do not know the end date of this world.
Until the end comes, this gospel of the kingdom will be preached everywhere, to every nation.

Matthew 24
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation​

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man​

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[ScottA]

Not really. Israel will once again be raised up by the Lord who chose us, to serve His purposes in the Millennium and the New Earth. Those purposes will not involve an inclusion of Gentiles, although Israel and Gentiles will live together on the New Earth. The body of Christ, however, will be in the Heavenlies.

BTW

You hold to a 2,000 year old error. The bloodline continues, but the promise you hold to was not made to the seed of the flesh--God is spirit, and that transformation for Israel came and went with Messiah, after which there is no more Jew or Gentile, no male nor female, but the blessing upon every nation and people.

 

[Fred J]

2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Paul here is not saying the church, the body of Christ, is the bride of Christ. Paul is using espousal to illustrate the faithfulness and purity of the church unto Christ Jesus.

[2Corinthians 11:3-4 KJV] 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

In the above verses Paul is admonishing the church for following other apostles and another gospel. He was exhorting them to remain faithful to Christ as they received him from Paul.

[Ephesians 5:23, 32 KJV] 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. ... 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The relationship the church has with Christ is expressed by marriage. Christ is the head of the church just as the husband is head of the wife.

[Isaiah 62:4-5 KJV] 4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. 5 For [as] a young man marrieth a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee.

[Isaiah 54:5 KJV] 5 For thy Maker [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

[Hosea 2:19-20 KJV] 19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies. 20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.

A number of verses express a marriage relationship with Israel as seen above.

[Revelation 21:2, 9-10 KJV] 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ... 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

The holy city, the new Jerusalem is described as being the bride, the lamb's wife; this is the bride of Christ, not the church, the body of Christ.

[Rev 21:12 KJV] 12 And had a wall great and high, [and] had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are [the names] of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

The twelve tribes of Israel are written on the gates.

[Rev 21:14 KJV] 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The names of the twelve apostles of Israel are written in the foundations.

[Rev 21:24 KJV] 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Some Gentile nations will be saved to enter the kingdom on earth depending on how they treated Israel in the tribulation (Matthew 25:31-34); the nations that will enter the holy city will do so as a result of the ministry of the priesthood of believing Israel in the kingdom on earth (Zechariah 8:22-23 Exodus 19:6 Revelation 5:10 20:6).

Take scripture out of context, copy and paste, can fit any heretic's doctrine and agenda.

Galatians 4:
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

31. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwomen, but of the free.

Paul addressed this letter to the Gentile Galatian church, where at first He cried out to them, who'd bewitched them who're not circumcised, to be circumcised.

Later in chapter 4, Paul include them as well, as 'us', belonging to the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of them all.

When Paul a Jew include himself with the Gentile church as 'us', is because he is part of the remnant of Jews saved by grace, now 'one' with the Gentile church.

Galatians 3:
26. For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[BeforeThereWas]

You hold to a 2,000 year old error. The bloodline continues, but the promise you hold to was not made to the seed of the flesh--God is spirit, and that transformation for Israel came and went with Messiah, after which there is no more Jew or Gentile, no male nor female, but the blessing upon every nation and people.

That is nothing but replacement theology garbage. Sorry, but Israel will indeed be raised up at the Second Coming of Christ in order to rule the world under the Kingship of Christ Jesus. Jesus stated His purpose to fulfill the Law, not to cast away Israel. Where do you people get this replacement theology junk? Do you really hate us Jew that much that you defy the Bible you claim to believe?

MM

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Kingdom of God not meant for gentiles?

2 Thessalonians 1:4-6​

​

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The same man who wrote those other references you applied out of their contexts also said this, which means what it says, even within its context.

Personally, I prefer to be where the Lord places me. I will not demand of Him that He put me on the New Earth when He has already determined that the body of Christ is destined for Heavenly places.

BTW

 

[ScottA]

That is nothing but replacement theology garbage. Sorry, but Israel will indeed be raised up at the Second Coming of Christ in order to rule the world under the Kingship of Christ Jesus. Jesus stated His purpose to fulfill the Law, not to cast away Israel. Where do you people get this replacement theology junk? Do you really hate us Jew that much that you defy the Bible you claim to believe?

MM

I'm not giving you my understanding or opinion, but a word from God.

You're not completely wrong, but your understanding of the timing is all wrong. It was Paul who [only] eluded to the correct timing of the second coming of Christ, saying, "but each one in his own order" ("one" defined as in the order of each one "individual").

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I'm not giving you my understanding or opinion, but a word from God.

You're not completely wrong, but your understanding of the timing is all wrong. It was Paul who [only] eluded to the correct timing of the second coming of Christ, saying, "but each one in his own order" ("one" defined as in the order of each one "individual").

The Bible shows to us that the Second Coming will be at the end of the tribulation after 2/3rds of the Jews are wiped out. Zechariah 12-14 makes that quite clear as well.

BTW

 

[Fred J]

Take scripture out of context, copy and paste, can fit any heretic's doctrine and agenda.

Galatians 4:
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

31. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwomen, but of the free.

Paul addressed this letter to the Gentile Galatian church, where at first He cried out to them, who'd bewitched them who're not circumcised, to be circumcised.

Later in chapter 4, Paul include them as well, as 'us', belonging to the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of them all.

When Paul a Jew include himself with the Gentile church as 'us', is because he is part of the remnant of Jews saved by grace, now 'one' with the Gentile church.

Galatians 3:
26. For ye are all the children of GOD by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Revelation 21:
1. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from GOD out of Heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

This new Jerusalem does not specifically refer to the remnant of Jews saved by grace believers, nor all Israel in the end shall be saved elects, but also the Gentiles saved by grace believers.

Together they're all one in Christ Jesus, and are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Now since GOD the FATHER have 'grafted' these wild olive tree branches who've believed(Gentile believers), to that one cultivated olive tree(all Israel).

Lord Jesus Christ is the 'root', and GOD the FATHER is the gardener and owner of that one cultivated olive tree.

And the Jews in disbelieve and unfruitful branches of that one cultivated olive tree, GOD the FATHER have cut them off. (the remnant of Jews saved by grace branches remain)

Now in their place the Gentile wild olive tree branches who've believed(Gentile believers), have been 'grafted' onto.

Apparently, this will of GOD the FATHER that the remnant of Jews and Gentiles saved by grace church are one in Christ Jesus, indeed cause a jealousy among the unsaved Jews.

Romans 11:
11. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? GOD forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Am prophesying to some Jews and not all, who accuse us Gentile believers of hating you Jews to your convenience, apparently scripturally you're doing it in plain jealousy.

We don't hate you but merely testifying the word of GOD which is the grace and truth Jesus Christ brought us.

Looks like you can't handle the truth!

The unsaved all Israel which the Jerusalem now is, corresponds with Agar of mount Sinai in Arabia, and is in bondage with her children.

In Paul's letters to the Gentile churches, when he mentions 'us', he's not saying, 'us Jews', but rather, 'us Jews and Gentiles' in Christ, who are one and heirs of that promise.

Due to am experiencing blindness in part of some of the readers, had to use bold and magnified letters.

That hopefully they're able to see and believe in the written truth and not fabricated lies of 'imposters' and 'counterfeits"

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[ScottA]

The Bible shows to us that the Second Coming will be at the end of the tribulation after 2/3rds of the Jews are wiped out. Zechariah 12-14 makes that quite clear as well.

BTW

That interpretation or understanding suffers the stumbling block of the flesh--thinking in terms of the flesh, and expecting that the passage refers to the Jews in the flesh.

Indeed it does, but not in the way that you have understood it. To the contrary, the passage refers to "a time, times, and half a time", "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected", "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” and "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." Which refers to the entire history of the world, both houses, both folds, all of whom die in the flesh, leaving one remaining, i.e. "one third."

 

[Wick Stick]

Did you ever open a topic because the question seemed interesting, but then you see who posted it and you turn around and just leave?

 

[BeforeThereWas]

That interpretation or understanding suffers the stumbling block of the flesh--thinking in terms of the flesh, and expecting that the passage refers to the Jews in the flesh.

Indeed it does, but not in the way that you have understood it. To the contrary, the passage refers to "a time, times, and half a time", "Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected", "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” and "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd." Which refers to the entire history of the world, both houses, both folds, all of whom die in the flesh, leaving one remaining, i.e. "one third."

In keeping with what you keep claiming about the flesh, spiritualizing everything is equally a serious problem in interpretation. There's the flesh and then there's the hyper-spiritualization of everything whereby one can make it say whatever they want, just like allegorizing.

Whether you like it or not, the Lord is still not finished with Israel (the flesh, genetic). Kicking against that rock will only mash your own toes.

BTW

 

[Fred J]

At the second coming of Christ Jesus when the first resurrection takes place, the dead in Christ shall rise first.

The dead in Christ are, the remnant of Israel saved by grace from the time of John the Baptist to Jesus Christ in the four Gospels. And the Gentiles saved by grace after Jesus Christ's commission to the Apostles to make disciples of all nation, and too the scattered Jews therein. Including Paul's revealed mystery, 'until the full number of Gentles saved by grace have come in by the Gospel'.

Does the scripture mentioned about the patriarchs of Israel included or are the ones alone ascend at the first resurrection?

No!

Biblically, the 'patriarchs of Israel' are the ones in the Old Testament, and not in the New Testament, period

According to Paul's mystery, all Israel besides the remnant saved by grace, and are enemies of the Gospel for the Gentile sake. As touching election, they are beloved for the fathers' (patriarchs of the Old Testament) sakes.

The Gentiles who've not believed GOD in the past have obtained mercy from GOD through their unbelief. For GOD had concluded them all in unbelief, that HE might have mercy upon all Israel in the end. As again, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, and so all Israel shall be saved. (Romans 11:25-32)

Therefore they will not be included in the first resurrection, but only the dead in Christ. They are the remnant of Israel saved by grace and to the fulness of Gentiles saved by grace in the New Testament, and after all have come in. Ones who also face the Great Tribulation until the first resurrection takes place.

Anti-Christ and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, and satan will be bound in chain and cast into the bottomless pit a thousand years. Those in the first resurrection will reign with Christ also a thousand years. When the thousand years is up, satan will loosed once again to deceive the nations of the earth..............

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[rebuilder 454]

Romans 7, note 4, we are married to Christ, so we are the bride of Christ.
Even when plainly written, some will not believe.

Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law [a]has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Paul makes the comparison of a marriage between a man and a woman to be like Christ and His church, and Paul calls this a great mystery.

Ephesians 5

Marriage—Christ and the Church​

22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might [g]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, [h]of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

I agree.
I will never understand why and how hyperpauline doctrine exists.
Once embraced, here comes the other ridiculous baggage

 

[rebuilder 454]

At the second coming of Christ Jesus when the first resurrection takes place, the dead in Christ shall rise first.

The dead in Christ are, the remnant of Israel saved by grace from the time of John the Baptist to Jesus Christ in the four Gospels. And the Gentiles saved by grace after Jesus Christ's commission to the Apostles to make disciples of all nation, and too the scattered Jews therein. Including Paul's revealed mystery, 'until the full number of Gentles saved by grace have come in by the Gospel'.

Does the scripture mentioned about the patriarchs of Israel included or are the ones alone ascend at the first resurrection?

No!

Biblically, the 'patriarchs of Israel' are the ones in the Old Testament, and not in the New Testament, period

According to Paul's mystery, all Israel besides the remnant saved by grace, and are enemies of the Gospel for the Gentile sake. As touching election, they are beloved for the fathers' (patriarchs of the Old Testament) sakes.

The Gentiles who've not believed GOD in the past have obtained mercy from GOD through their unbelief. For GOD had concluded them all in unbelief, that HE might have mercy upon all Israel in the end. As again, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in, and so all Israel shall be saved. (Romans 11:25-32)

Therefore they will not be included in the first resurrection, but only the dead in Christ. They are the remnant of Israel saved by grace and to the fulness of Gentiles saved by grace in the New Testament, and after all have come in. Ones who also face the Great Tribulation until the first resurrection takes place.

Anti-Christ and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, and satan will be bound in chain and cast into the bottomless pit a thousand years. Those in the first resurrection will reign with Christ also a thousand years. When the thousand years is up, satan will loosed once again to deceive the nations of the earth..............

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Hopefully at some point you will investigate tge patriarchs in paradise who recieved the gospel message after Jesus was crucified and descended to hades.
Paradise being adjacent to hades.
Those same patriarchs were RESSURRECTED ALONG WITH Jesus.
They are in heaven now as FIRSTFRUITS of the first resurrection.
Jesus also being firstfruits....OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION.