The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right, I don't believe the Holy Spirit can help anyone understand scripture.

You sure don't act like it. You're always talking about AI and common sense and things like that as being the keys to understanding scripture.

You missed the point entirely. per the scenario I submitted, 10 different ppl are coming to 10 different conclusions about the same text. All 10 insist the Holy Spirit led them to their conclusions. Assuming someone is correct, well they all can't be correct. therefore, 9 of them are mistaking help from the Holy spirit being why they conclude what they do.

So what? Why should I care if people are thinking that the Holy Spirit is teaching them things when He is not? What does that have to do with me? Nothing. Unless you're trying to say that there's a 90% chance that I'm mistaken whenever I think that the Holy Spirit is teaching me something. If that was somehow true, then I'd have to reconsider my thoughts on this, but I know that isn't true.

Otherwise, since the Holy Spirit can't lie, all 10 of them would be coming to the exact same conclusion regarding the text that the one that the one that is correct is coming to.

How would 9 out of 10 people mistakenly thinking that the Holy Spirit is teaching them when He is not make the Holy Spirit a liar? That's some strange logic you're using there. People being mistaken about that does not reflect anything about the Holy Spirit Himself.

Except a scenario like this, how do those looking in from the outside determine which one of the 10 is correct and which 9 aren't? I of course was being sarcastic using you as an example being among these 10. Yet you have plainly told me in the past there are no holes in your theology, everything lines up perfectly.

Of course I believe that there are no holes in my theology. I'd be stupid to be spending time here arguing in favor of my theology otherwise. So what? It doesn't mean there can't be any holes in my theology just because I don't believe there are. Why are you so offended when someone is confident in their beliefs? Is it because you don't have such confidence in your own beliefs and you're jealous or what? If so, that would be ironic since you are the one who makes claims that are supposedly "undeniably" true as if your opinions are facts. I never do that. I don't claim that my opinions are undeniable facts the way you do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You’re welcome and I don’t believe that the birds are literal but symbolic of the curse of death as humans are supposed to eat birds not the other way around

Even though we agree that it's symbolic, we don't agree on what it symbolizes. It seems that you agree that Revelation 19:11-21 refers to the same event as Revelation 20:9, right? If so, does that mean you don't see the description of the fire coming down from heaven in Revelation 20 as being literal fire that comes down upon the earth?

 

[Davidpt]

LOL. I am done with you. Instead of taking an honest look at ALL of scripture, you have decided that there are only cherry picked scriptures that we can take into consideration. It is a colossal waste of time dealing with your biased nonsense. I'm not going to do it anymore.

Translation then---Is what I submitted maybe hard to refute? I think so and so do you, apparently. I'm supposed to take your interpretations seriously but God forbid you take any of my interpretations seriously. Everything I submit, no matter what the subject, when you disagree with me you try to discredit me from the git go by prefacing what I said that you are addressing, with a LOL. We all know the real reason why you do that. You are clearly mocking someone's understanding of something. In the event the person might be correct about some of these things, that equals that you are mocking Scriptures, in that case. Why take a chance and risk indirectly mocking Scripture, in events where the person might be correct? In your mind, I'm not correct about one single thing we disagree about, you are the one correct every single time instead. No one could possibly have a track record like that, where they are never correct, or that they are always correct. Except for maybe someone like Jesus, or maybe someone like Paul. Except in our case, we are trying to understand what they are saying and meaning, vs they already understand what they are saying and meaning.

 

[Marty fox]

Even though we agree that it's symbolic, we don't agree on what it symbolizes. It seems that you agree that Revelation 19:11-21 refers to the same event as Revelation 20:9, right? If so, does that mean you don't see the description of the fire coming down from heaven in Revelation 20 as being literal fire that comes down upon the earth?

I do believe that Revelation 20:9 shows literal fire coming down from heaven, but I don't believe that revelation 20:9 is the same events ad Revelation 19:11-21

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Translation then---Is what I submitted maybe hard to refute? I think so and so do you, apparently. I'm supposed to take your interpretations seriously but God forbid you take any of my interpretations seriously.

Would I have talked to you all these years on these forums if I didn't take any of your interpretations seriously? Of course not. Do I think that some of your interpretations can't be taken seriously? Of course, and I say so when that is the case. But, I don't say that about all of your interpretations. I haven't said that about your interpretation of Zechariah 14. I'm trying to discuss Zechariah 14 with you, but you are the one acting as if my interpretations can't be taken seriously. You just completely dismissed the possibility that Zechariah 14:8 could be related to John 7:37-39 without giving it any consideration.

Everything I submit, no matter what the subject, when you disagree with me you try to discredit me from the git go by prefacing what I said that you are addressing, with a LOL.

You are exaggerating. I don't do that in response to everything you say and you know it.

We all know the real reason why you do that. You are clearly mocking someone's understanding of something.

Of course. When I think someone says something that is so ridiculous that it can't possibly be true, I mock it.

In the event the person might be correct about some of these things, that equals that you are mocking Scriptures, in that case.

I'm willing to take that risk.

Why take a chance and risk indirectly mocking Scripture, in events where the person might be correct?

I only do that when I feel very certain that the person is wrong. Never otherwise.

In your mind, I'm not correct about one single thing we disagree about,

Are you purposely trying to tempt me to use a LOL here? I'm kidding. Of course I don't think you're correct about one single thing we disagree about and you think the same about me. That's why we strongly disagree with each other about those things. Now, do we strongly disagree about everything we disagree about? Not necessarily. I would certainly not say that you can't be correct about literally everything we disagree about. For example, you could be correct about some of how you interpret Zechariah 14, but I feel certain that it's not possible that Zechariah 14 can support the Premillennial doctrine. Your interpretation of Zechariah 14 overall supports your Premil view, so I would say it can't possibly be correct, but that doesn't mean you can't be correct about how you interpret part of the passage, such as you understanding that Zechariah 14:9 is not talking about earthly Jerusalem. But, the question then becomes whether it's talking about the heavenly Jerusalem that scripture says we're already part of now (Galatians 4:26), Hebrews 12:22) or does it have a future context instead relating to when the new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven?

you are the one correct every single time instead.

Says the guy who says his opinions are undeniably true. You are being hypocritical here. You're whining about me supposedly claiming that I can't possibly be wrong (I've never done that) while you are the one who uses words like "undeniably true" in relation to your opinions. I don't do that.

No one could possibly have a track record like that, where they are never correct, or that they are always correct.

Do you know that when I first started posting on forums like this (on the old Bibleforums.org) I was a Premil? If I thought I was always correct, then how did I become an Amil?

Except for maybe someone like Jesus, or maybe someone like Paul. Except in our case, we are trying to understand what they are saying and meaning, vs they already understand what they are saying and meaning.

You obviously have very strong opinions about certain things that you won't budge on. Does that mean you are equating yourself with Jesus or Paul? No. It means you have studied these things for a long time and have come to those conclusions as a result. It's not like we just quickly read scripture and then formed our doctrine. No, we each read and studied scripture for a long time before deciding which doctrines are true. It doesn't mean we ever get to a point where we know everything and have nothing else to learn, but it also doesn't mean we can't ever make a decision about what we believe about certain things. We should be open to correction, of course, but there's nothing wrong with becoming convinced that certain things are true after studying the scriptures carefully. You are basically complaining that I have confidence in my beliefs, which is obviously ridiculous. I DO NOT claim that I can't be wrong despite your false accusations otherwise.

 

[Davidpt]

I do believe that Revelation 20:9 shows literal fire coming down from heaven, but I don't believe that revelation 20:9 is the same events ad Revelation19:11-21

Nor do I, but for different reasons. Something that has crossed my mind in the past is this, in regard to how you interpret Revelation 19 over all.

Revelation 14:1 ¶And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.


I don't know if use any of this passage in order to help you interpret Revelation 19? Yet, I can see how this passage might correlate with how you are interpreting Revelation 19 throughout. But you run into a brick wall interpreting it in this manner when you get to Revelation 19:20, though. Now the LOF is literally in view, and that 2 entities are being taken, thus have been captured, and cast ALIVE into the LOF. That couldn't possibly happen apart from Christ having bodily returned first.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I do believe that Revelation 20:9 shows literal fire coming down from heaven, but I don't believe that revelation 20:9 is the same events ad Revelation 19:11-21

Okay. I don't feel like debating that with you here right now and maybe you don't want to do that, either. But, since you see Revelation 19:11-21 as being symbolic, then at least your reasoning for not seeing them as being the same events is not because you see them both as being literal with one describing destruction not caused by fire and one describing destruction caused by fire.

 

[Marty fox]

Okay. I don't feel like debating that with you here right now and maybe you don't want to do that, either. But, since you see Revelation 19:11-21 as being symbolic, then at least your reasoning for not seeing them as being the same events is not because you see them both as being literal with one describing destruction not caused by fire and one describing destruction caused by fire.

Yes, but I believe that the bible clearly shows them as separate events.

For example, one reason is that satan is not mentioned in the battle of Rev 19, and he in thrown into the lake of fire in the battle of rev 20.

Rev 20 shows that the beast and the false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire before satan is in a previous battle.

Revelation 19
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Revelation 20:
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes, but I believe that the bible clearly shows them as separate events.

For example, one reason is that satan is not mentioned in the battle of Rev 19, and he in thrown into the lake of fire in the battle of rev 20.

That's the same kind of reasoning that Premils use. That doesn't automatically make your reasoning wrong, but it's something you might want to consider. But, I'm sure you understand that the events recorded in the book of Revelation are not in chronological order throughout the book. With that in mind, there is nothing to demand that any two passages in the book have to contain all of the same details in order to be about the same event.

Rev 20 shows that the beast and the false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire before satan is in a previous battle.

Revelation 19
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Revelation 20:
9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever

Again, keeping in mind that not everything recorded in the book is in chronological order, there is nothing that demands that Satan can't be thrown into the lake of fire immediately or shortly after the beast and false prophet are. We see a description in Revelation 20:10-15 of Satan being cast into the lake of fire, and then death and hell being cast in, and then those whose names are not written in the book of life being cast in.

 

[Marty fox]

That's the same kind of reasoning that Premils use. That doesn't automatically make your reasoning wrong, but it's something you might want to consider. But, I'm sure you understand that the events recorded in the book of Revelation are not in chronological order throughout the book. With that in mind, there is nothing to demand that any two passages in the book have to contain all of the same details in order to be about the same event.


Again, keeping in mind that not everything recorded in the book is in chronological order, there is nothing that demands that Satan can't be thrown into the lake of fire immediately or shortly after the beast and false prophet are. We see a description in Revelation 20:10-15 of Satan being cast into the lake of fire, and then death and hell being cast in, and then those whose names are not written in the book of life being cast in.

To clarify I don't see Revelation 19's battle as a literal onetime event. I see it as Jesus continually defeating all of His enemies over time with the sword of His mouth, His word which is all powerful and all He needs.

For example, this below would have been a separate time to Rev 19, s battle if Rev 19, s battle was a single event.

Revelation 2
15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

To clarify I don't see Revelation 19's battle as a literal onetime event.

Yes, I know that. You have told me before how you interpret it. But, do you understand my point about the book not all being chronological? You made the argument that "Rev 20 shows that the beast and the false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire before satan is in a previous battle.". That argument would only be valid if everything in the book was chronological from beginning to end, but it's not. So, if you want to try to prove that Revelation 19:11-21 is not the same event as Revelation 20:9, that's not a valid way to do it.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, I know that. You have told me before how you interpret it. But, do you understand my point about the book not all being chronological? You made the argument that "Rev 20 shows that the beast and the false prophet were thrown into the lake of fire before satan is in a previous battle.". That argument would only be valid if everything in the book was chronological from beginning to end, but it's not. So, if you want to try to prove that Revelation 19:11-21 is not the same event as Revelation 20:9, that's not a valid way to do it.

No, I don't believe that revelation is all in chronological order and with my view of Rev 19 rev 20 would be a part of that too but not complete in it.

The difference here is that it states that the beast & the false prophet are in the lake of fire before satan so that part is chronological.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, I don't believe that revelation is all in chronological order and with my view of Rev 19 rev 20 would be a part of that too but not complete in it.

The difference here is that it states that the beast & the false prophet are in the lake of fire before satan so that part is chronological.

Yes, I agree that part is chronological, but that doesn't mean that everything written in Revelation 19 occurs chronologically before everything written in Revelation 20. There's nothing that says that Satan can't be cast into the lake of fire immediately or soon after the beast and false prophet are except for the opinion that all of what is described in Revelation 19 occurs chronologically before all of what is described in Revelation 20.

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, I agree that part is chronological, but that doesn't mean that everything written in Revelation 19 occurs chronologically before everything written in Revelation 20. There's nothing that says that Satan can't be cast into the lake of fire immediately or soon after the beast and false prophet are except for the opinion that all of what is described in Revelation 19 occurs chronologically before all of what is described in Revelation 20.

I totally agree I also never said that for example the thousand years started at the cross & resurrection

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I totally agree I also never said that for example the thousand years started at the cross & resurrection

Yeah, I was going to add that you do believe that some of Revelation 20 occurs before what is described in Revelation 19, so you should understand what I mean. And I can see that you do. Okay then. So, let's just agree to disagree on our understanding of Revelation 19 unless you have anything to add.

 

[Marty fox]

Yeah, I was going to add that you do believe that some of Revelation 20 occurs before what is described in Revelation 19, so you should understand what I mean. And I can see that you do. Okay then. So, let's just agree to disagree on our understanding of Revelation 19 unless you have anything to add.

How about rev 19:
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter

This verse states that Jesus will rule with an iron sceptre spoken in a future tense. But scripture tells us what happens at the end of our world

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Thus time on this earth goes on during some of the events after revelation 19

 

[Earburner]

Didn't I say brethren, that to believe man's false theory of Amillennialism, one must omit much Bible Scripture? Here is something the poster omits...

Zech 14:16-20
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

No mistaking that is about the time AFTER... Christ's future return, and those leftovers represent the wicked unsaved that will come up against Israel on the last day of this present world. Yet there they are, after Christ's future return, and are commanded to come up to Jerusalem from year to year (during the "thousand years" of Rev.20) and worship The KING Jesus Christ, AND... keep the Feast of Tabernacles!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
KJV

Do you recall Jesus telling His elect in John 14 that He goes to prepare a place for them, that in His Father's house are many mansions (abodes)? That above gives us that timing being for after... Christ's 2nd coming beyond all doubt.

Do you not yet know that the Feast of Tabernacles (of temporary dwelling places) is about God Himself and NOT the Jews?
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

2 Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure [God Himself] [with] in [our] earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

All Born again Christians do keep the Feast of Tabernacles until their mortal death, which is when they shed their temporary mortal bodies, whereby through God's Eternal Holy Spirit, they are then at rest, asleep in Jesus, waiting for the Day of His Glorious return and their resurrection into Immortality.

 

[Truth7t7]

Didn't I say brethren, that to believe man's false theory of Amillennialism, one must omit much Bible Scripture? Here is something the poster omits...

Zech 14:16-20
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

No mistaking that is about the time AFTER... Christ's future return, and those leftovers represent the wicked unsaved that will come up against Israel on the last day of this present world. Yet there they are, after Christ's future return, and are commanded to come up to Jerusalem from year to year (during the "thousand years" of Rev.20) and worship The KING Jesus Christ, AND... keep the Feast of Tabernacles!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
KJV

Do you recall Jesus telling His elect in John 14 that He goes to prepare a place for them, that in His Father's house are many mansions (abodes)? That above gives us that timing being for after... Christ's 2nd coming beyond all doubt.

You run away in distraction, God's words aren't contradictory, when Jesus is revealed at his second coming "All" the unsaved wicked are destroyed by the Lords fire, why do you "Deny" the very simple words of God seen below as if they don't exist?

Please respond "directly" to Luke 17:29-30 below, don't run away in distraction

"All" The Unsaved Wicked Will Be "Destroyed" By "Fire" When The Lord Is Revealed In His Future "Second Coming"

Fire, Brimstone, "Destroyed Them All" Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand before your eyes!

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Didn't I say brethren, that to believe man's false theory of Amillennialism, one must omit much Bible Scripture? Here is something the poster omits...

Zech 14:16-20
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

No mistaking that is about the time AFTER... Christ's future return, and those leftovers represent the wicked unsaved that will come up against Israel on the last day of this present world. Yet there they are, after Christ's future return, and are commanded to come up to Jerusalem from year to year (during the "thousand years" of Rev.20) and worship The KING Jesus Christ, AND... keep the Feast of Tabernacles!

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
KJV

Do you recall Jesus telling His elect in John 14 that He goes to prepare a place for them, that in His Father's house are many mansions (abodes)? That above gives us that timing being for after... Christ's 2nd coming beyond all doubt.

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?​

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[Earburner]

How about rev 19:
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter

This verse states that Jesus will rule with an iron sceptre spoken in a future tense. But scripture tells us what happens at the end of our world

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

Thus time on this earth goes on during some of the events after revelation 19

We all must STOP thinking and reading the book of Rev. chronologically. (Isa. 55:8-9), and begin listening to "that which the Holy Spirit teaches", and NOT that which is fabricated by church-ianity, which is "the wisdom of men". 1 Cor. ch. 2.
Therefore, prophetically speaking, Rev. 20 actually takes place  BEFORE Rev. 19.

Though what I reveal may be contrary to your way of thinking, it truly is the order of events. John the Revelator, using pen and ink on parchment paper, did not write all 22 chapters of Revelation within 12 hours of daylight,

FIRST event- Rev. 20:2
"Satan BOUND" (as shown in Rev. 20:2, UPTO the sudden return of Christ- Rev. 19:1-21), IS: Mat. 12:29; Mark 3:27; Luke 11:22, which began on the day of Jesus' death and resurrection.

SECOND event- Rev 19:
"The Day of the Lord" (2 Peter 3:10 aka the sudden Glorious return of Christ from Heaven)- Rev. 19:1-2, IS: Luke 17:28-30; 2 Thes. 1:7-10.