The Current War against Iran and Support for Israel is based on Catholic Counter Reformation Theology.

[dad]

Why is Israel on the map again since ~1900 years of absence ?

Scripture foretold they would be (and attacked, killed, invaded etc etc) God knew unbelievers would steal the land I guess.

Because Jesus is going to return exactly where ?

To where He said. Hopefully you do not think that His location of return to earth has to do with condoning a secular wicked nation today?

I am not going to interfere in God's business, I watch and don't judge.

Great. Just do not call terrorism and mass murder and unbelief His business.

 

[NayborBear]

At this council they affirmed Catholic teaching, that tradition was of equal authority as scripture. They compromised on nothing, but still couldn't find an answer to the fast growing protestant movement, until the Jesuits provided it.

.......This is the same "mindset/thoughts" that I am fairly convinced as to "what" these Jesuits "provided!"
They "knowingly" fed this guy named Mohammad some "ergot" (later known as LSD) and tutor/guided him into believing that he being under the influence, had indeed encountered a "manufactured vision!" To eventually "punish and control" "these Pharasetic Jews and Gentiles" that would "never" convert to Christianity!
To which they (the Jesuits as well and the Holy Catholic Church at the time) severely over estimated this "monster" they had created! As HIStory has proven it to be!

Ecclesiastes 3:
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
10 I have seen the travail, which God hath given to the sons of men to be exercised in it.
11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

It would seem, doesn't it, that any and or every man, woman, or child that might engage in acts of "love" to correct wrongdoings done to Christianity to the point of turning plow shares into swords, are not viewed to be even considered Christians in today's "churchianitist" mindset!

 

[NayborBear]

I want to add to the above in light of recent revelations. Some of you may be aware of this and quietly going about your business not wanting to make waves. What I'm going to say is going to ruffle many feathers.
Your military (in the US) is being told by their commanders that they are fighting Armageddon. That Donald Trump has been anointed by God to establish the millennium of peace and safety in the world. To usher in the second coming, I assume like an end time John the Baptist preparing the world for the Messiah. That Christian nationalism and Zionism had gone so far is astonishing to me. Couple that with the calls from various quarters for a national Sunday law, and the establishment of an ecclesiocracy (as opposed to theocracy) in America, harking back to the days of the Puritans when there were state churches and enforced worship, with harsh penalties for non conformists, is a repudiation of your own constitution and a rewrite of history. Your own founding fathers such as James Madison who penned the first amendment, and Thomas Jefferson who wrote the declaration of independence, will be tearng their hair out if they could hear or see what is taking place in their so called country of freedom.
Some of your congressmen and senators for some time now have called for the abolition of the separation of church and state, claiming your founding fathers never intended for such a separation when forming your great nation. That is history revisionism. They haven't read Madison. And they denigrate Jefferson. And treat great American heroes such as Roger Williams relegated to the dust bin of history. The Protestant church in America has fallen. It is in league with the state forming a union of church and state, carrying of the Catholic principles of the old world from which they never fully came out. America is now in the throws of forming the image to the papal beast with the inevitable religious laws and persecutions that follow.

I do BELIEVE that what we are witnessing in today's current events is a "peeling back of an onion" so to speak, is EXPOSING this prophecy coming to pass before our very eyes at this very time!
That is, if one has "eyes to see and ears to hear!"

2 Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[PinSeeker]

The New Testament is the only Testament in force and effect since Calvary.

Disagree. The Cival and Ceremonial laws are not in effect, but the Moral certainly is, and fully fleshed out in all Jesus's "but I tell you" statements... and the greatest and second commandments, "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind," and "love your neighbor as yourself," on which "depend all the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40).

A testament is a will. There cannot be more than one will in force and effect at any point in time.

There is really only one testament of God. In the case of the Bible and the Old and New Testament, the Old is indicative of the greater nature of the New, and the New is the Old revealed in full.

Name a verse in the New Testament where it says that Israel is promised land.

Uh, Matthew 5:5... Jesus says, "the meek shall inherit the earth." <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

 

[NayborBear]

There is really only one testament of God. In the case of the Bible and the Old and New Testament, the Old is indicative of the greater nature of the New, and the New is the Old revealed in full.

To render more insightfulness to your statement?
The Old not only points the way to the new?
It also gives the full explanation as to the WHY!
Think the parable of the New wine and old wine skins!

 

[PinSeeker]

The Old not only points the way to the new? It also gives the full explanation as to the WHY!

Sure. And the greater reality of it.

Grace and peace.

 

[covenantee]

Disagree. The Cival and Ceremonial laws are not in effect, but the Moral certainly is, and fully fleshed out in all Jesus's "but I tell you" statements... and the greatest and second commandments, "love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind," and "love your neighbor as yourself," on which "depend all the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 22:37-40).

Agreed here.

There is really only one testament of God. In the case of the Bible and the Old and New Testament, the Old is indicative of the greater nature of the New, and the New is the Old revealed in full.

Two testaments. Hebrews 8:6,13; 9:15-17; 10:9.

Uh, Matthew 5:5... Jesus says, "the meek shall inherit the earth." <smile>

Uh, unbelieving Israel inherits nothing. Galatians 4:30-31.

 

[covenantee]

Nor are many things promised that were already written. The promises were made before the new Testament. Not one word shall fail of all His good promises.

Have any of these good promises of God failed?

Apparently you think that they make God a liar, because they don't promise Israel land.


2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[PinSeeker]

Two testaments. Hebrews 8:6,13; 9:15-17; 10:9.

Covenants. Covenantee. :) A covenant and a testament are two very different things...

Uh, unbelieving Israel inherits nothing.

Right, I didn't say or imply otherwise. Then again, though, if we speak of God's Israel, she inherits... everything. <smile>

Grace and peace.

 

[covenantee]

Covenants. Covenantee. :) A covenant and a testament are two very different things...

Yes. And the New Covenant/Testament is both a Covenant and a Testament.

Right, I didn't say or imply otherwise. Then again, though, if we speak of God's Israel, she inherits... everything. <smile>

Agreed.

 

[dad]

Have any of these good promises of God failed?

Apparently you think that they make God a liar, because they don't promise Israel land.

Obviously being brought back to the land is promised.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Whay post random verses with no relation to the topic? What has any of these verses got to do with His many promises to be their God and restore them to the land (after they believe)?

 

[PinSeeker]

And the New Covenant/Testament is both a Covenant and a Testament.

Disagree; this is a conflation. You just said a little while ago that a testament is a will, and a covenant is an agreement between two parties. Fortunately, we have a Mediator... of a covenant ~ the covenant of grace ~ that has been in effect since the Fall in Genesis 3, and Jesus has been the Mediator of that covenant ever since then. The New Covenant is Jesus Himself, who is the final consummation of all the previous lesser covenants, which collectively made up the Old Covenant.

Grace and peace to you, covenantee.

 

[Button]

Yes. Hopefully a long way from 'friendly' fire or otherwise.

Hardly.
Plus,you have knives to watch out for.

Gun control laws only affect those who obey laws.
Meanwhile,your corrupt Traitor oppressor government is armed to the teeth.
And you are their captive.

 

[covenantee]

Obviously being brought back to the land is promised.

Obviously not in the verses I posted, nor anywhere else in the New Testament.

Whay post random verses with no relation to the topic? What has any of these verses got to do with His many promises to be their God and restore them to the land (after they believe)?

They have every relation to the topic, because they describe the New Testament promises in Christ which have transcended and superseded the old.

And there's no land for Israel anywhere therein.

Since you're unable to understand that, just leave it for those who are.

 

[dad]

Obviously not in the verses I posted, nor anywhere else in the New Testament.

It is ridiculous to pretend that all prophesy regarding Israel or the end must be in the New Testament. Ever heard of the biggest section of Scripture? (sometimes called the old testament, law and prophets etc) Jesus confirmed it was true. All will happen and there is an actual greater chance that the sun and earth would disappear than it all not happening as written.

They have every relation to the topic, because they describe the New Testament promises in Christ which have transcended and superseded the old.

No. They fulfilled it. In no way does that mean ANT prophesy or promise of God written is no longer true.

And there's no land for Israel anywhere therein.

Yes in many places in the bible.

 

[covenantee]

Disagree; this is a conflation. You just said a little while ago that a testament is a will, and a covenant is an agreement between two parties. Fortunately, we have a Mediator... of a covenant ~ the covenant of grace ~ that has been in effect since the Fall in Genesis 3, and Jesus has been the Mediator of that covenant ever since then. The New Covenant is Jesus Himself, who is the final consummation of all the previous lesser covenants, which collectively made up the Old Covenant.

Grace and peace to you, covenantee.

diathéké: Covenant, Testament

And to you, PinSeeker.

 

[covenantee]

It is ridiculous to pretend that all prophesy regarding Israel or the end must be in the New Testament

Who says that? There are hundreds of OT prophecies clearly and unmistakably identified and fulfilled in the NT.

But land for Israel is not among them.

Yes in many places in the bible.

Not in the NT.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes. And the New Covenant/Testament is both a Covenant and a Testament.

The New Covenant and the New Testament are two different things. We disagree, obviously.

Grace and peace, covenantee.

 

[dad]

Who says that? There are hundreds of OT prophecies clearly and unmistakably identified and fulfilled in the NT.

But land for Israel is not among them.

Not in the NT.

Why would prophesies still in the future/end of the world be 'fulfilled in the New Testament?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The New Covenant and the New Testament are two different things. We disagree, obviously.

Grace and peace, covenantee.

Are these verses referring to two different things? I don't believe so.

Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

The words "testament" and "covenant" in these veress are translated from the same Greek word ""diathéké", so the decision by the KJV translators to translate the Greek word differently in each verse is highly questionable. In the NKJV, the Greek word is translated as "covenant" in Hebrews 7:22 instead of testament, so it is more consistent.

The following passage indicates that both the new covenant and new testament went into effect upon the death of Christ...

Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

This is from the NKJV. It's worth noting again that the words "covenant" and "testament" in this passage are both translated from the same Greek word "diathéké". In the KJV the Greek word is translated as "testament" every time it's used in this passage, so at least it's consistent even though I would say that the word should have been translated as "covenant" in each verse instead. Why the NKJV translators translated that word as both "covenant" and "testament" within this passage is a bit of a mystery since it indicates that both the new covenant and the new testament were put into effect by the death of Christ.

In this passage it indicates the Jesus became the Mediator of the new covenant by way of His death and it also implies that the new testament was in force by way of His death since it explains that a testament is only in force after the death of the testator (Jesus, in this case). And it is explained that the first covenant (the old covenant) was not in force without blood (the death of a sacrificed animal). So, the words covenant and testament seem to be used interchangeably as synonyms in this passage, which is why the English translators apparently had trouble deciding which English word the Greek word should be translated to in each verse that it was used. The words covenant and testament don't mean the same thing in English, but the Greek word that was translated as both "covenant" and "testament" seems to mean the same thing in each of the above verses and others that refer to the new covenant or new testament.