The Date of the Lord delivering Israel.

[ScottA]

Well, your way of stating this appear to insinuate ~ and I know this is not your intention ~ that God's Word is... and God Himself is... deceptive, which He is surely not. I would rather state it thusly, that just from a human standpoint, we can understand things in God's Word in senses or contexts that are different from what they actually are, in which case there is no deception, but only misunderstanding. But as Paul says in 2 Thessalonians 2, God can and does, in His sovereignty over all His creation send delusions, which is to say God is instrumental in causing unbelievers to embrace the Antichrist, who is the one who deceives, and therefore to believe what is false: "The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved... God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."


Right, God's Israel, His household, which consists only of His elect. Sure.


Right, the "partial hardening now on Israel" that is being and will be removed.


Absolutely. This is simultaneous now and not yet of the Gospel ~ which is to say "inaugurated but not yet consummated," which applies to many, many things throughout the New Testament.


You know, it's unnecessary to quibble, but it is through Christ, because of His finished work or redemption on the cross, that God is building His Israel. Again, when Jesus cried, "It is finished!"... He was referring to His work of redemption... that it is completely accomplished.

In accordance with what you are saying (I think), we can understand it in terms of what Paul says in Romans 8:29-30...

"...those whom (God) foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified."​

Yes, this is all past tense. So, to us, the glorification is yet to come ~ even for those who are already deceased but in and with Jesus; this is what is commonly called the intermediate state ~ but is an absolute certainty. All in Christ will be glorified at His return. So, not yet a reality, but the victory already won, in and through Christ. So Israel, God's household, is complete eternally speaking ~ we all have eternal life now ~ but not yet complete temporally speaking ~ we will all truly have eternal life in the age to come.


The bloodline is irrelevant, really; it was never synonymous with God's Israel. We are all one in Christ Jesus. I'm not sure if you would agree with me regarding who God's true Jews are, but no matter; Paul clearly says in Romans 2:28-29, "no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

One day God will be finished, even temporally speaking, building His household, which He's really been building since the events of Genesis 3, which was made possible once and for all in the finished word of redemption, accomplished by Christ Jesus on the cross.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

You are still framing what you believe within what you have believed. But I have not been stating what I believe. The things that I bring to the table were given to me by God and are relevant to my part in the finish foretold by John the apostle.

For example: There is no "intermediate state" by any name, but the matter is just as Jesus told the thief on the cross that the timing of all these matters, is "today." Which Paul summarized the same matters to say that all who were dead or living--everyone--"each" would also and likewise finished, "but, each one in his own order." All of which, means NO, these things are not finished as a one-time mass future event, or even then and now--but was, and is, and is to come, for Christ and Paul both referred to the timing as "today." Which is to say it all occurs personally, each in our own life and times.

But again, I am only speaking as if to reason through the issues--not because I see it all so, or because it is my understanding or interpretation--but rather, to be reasonable or kind. Which, if that sounds condescending, it is also true of every prophet or person chosen and sent by God to declare every word of scripture. I understand that, but that is not the understanding of most who have been taught or believed differently--most are repelled and reject anything new [to them]. But these things are not new, nor is the means by which they come from God.

 

[ScottA]

Hmmm... I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, to be honest, but I'll speak specifically to what you are referring to. And I'm going to pick out the verse you're referring to along with the ones before and after:

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at His coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power" (1 Corinthians 15:22-24).
Paul is actually talking about both the now ~ in verse 22, "in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" ~ and the not yet ~ "at His coming those who belong to Christ" This is the first (verse 22; synonymous with our being made alive in Christ, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:5-6 and Peter says in 1 Peter 1:3-5) and the second (physical resurrection at the end of the age to eternal life; Jesus talks about it in John 5:28-29) resurrections, here.

I'm really not sure of the disconnect between us ~ if there is one ~ to be honest. What I think is that in what you say here ~ "did not mean it as a mass group event" ~ I would... well disagree in one sense and agree in another; I would say he's talking about both things in these passages. It's what we call the simultaneous now and not yet of the Gospel, and it applies to many things throughout the New Testament.

Indeed, 1 Corinthians 15:23 is a verse not commonly or fully understood by most.

Both of our translations say it slightly different. But the original language refers to "each" as each one person.

The order of which--sorry, I could have also referred to: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17--but that opens up another part. But okay: The dead in Christ primarily refers to the house of Israel proper--not the continuing bloodline, but those who died before salvation had come, even including many gentiles. But that speaks of two different times and ministries--or as Christ referred to them, "folds." Which is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "But many who are first will be last, and the last first" (Matthew 19:30). Thus, the dead in Christ first, then the living...which includes those many of that generation and also of the times of the gentiles who died who believed--of which Jesus also referred to, saying, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live" (John 11:25).

The dividing line then, is the cross. All who lived and died before the cross are referred to in the scriptures as "the dead in Christ", and after as "the living in Christ."

All of which was "before the foundation of the world", but made manifest on the cross, and also in the life and time of "each" person, for the revealing of "that man of sin" after the fall ("the falling away"). "Then comes the end."

 

[William Barton]

Actually William, God`s word says `they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.` (Rev. 16: 16)

And since you have been there you know it is a large area where the armies will gather. Then God`s word tell us that God will bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat where He will judge them. (Joel 3: 12 & 13)

It's Greek:
συνηγαγεν they assembled
αυτους themselves
εις at
τον the
τοπον plain
τον that (one)
καλουμενον called
Εβραιστι in Hebrew
Αρμαγεδων Armageddon

The Hebrew is הר ממגידו ( Har = "mountain," and Megiddo is the name of an ancient city no longer there). Greek has no H, hence Greek Armageddon.

One webpage says Jehoshaphat was the court king of Judah, known for his religious reforms, military leadership, and devotion to God. Some scholars link "Valley of Jehoshaphat" (Joel 3) with this battle of Armageddon, but it is uncertain.

 

[PinSeeker]

The things that I bring to the table were given to me by God...

Everybody here would say that, Scott. Including me. But to use that, to weaponize it (in a sense), which many do and you kiiiiiiinda are herrrrrre... <smile> ...is... well, not good. <smile>

There is no "intermediate state" by any name, but the matter is just as Jesus told the thief on the cross that the timing of all these matters, is "today."

"Today you will be with Me in paradise," yes. But Jesus, as you know, was entombed for three days. So was His body buried? Or was He in paradise? I mean the answer is yes. And likewise, so it is for all the saints who have gone on before, and it will be for all of us who die before Jesus returns. The intermediate state is a theological concept that speculates regarding what kind state in which believers exist in heaven have while they/we wait for their/our physical bodies to be resurrected. We cannot really know, but we know that we will indeed exist in... some state of being, with Jesus, as the thief crucified on His right did; we will be with Him in paradise. Likewise, we can (or should be able to) see from Jesus's parable in Luke 16 that this is the case for unbelievers, too, but whatever it is, it will be... quite different... <shudder>

Which Paul summarized the same matters to say that all who were dead or living--everyone--"each" would also and likewise finished,

Okay. <smile>

...All of which, means NO, these things are not finished as a one-time mass future event--but was, and is, and is to come, for Christ and Paul both referred to the timing as "today." Which is to say it all occurs personally, each in our own life and times.

Think we're sort of talking past each other...

But again, I am only speaking as if to reason through the issues--not because I see it all so, or because it is my understanding or interpretation--but rather, to be reasonable or kind. Which, if that sounds condescending, it is also true of every prophet or person chosen and sent by God to declare every word of scripture.

So you think of yourself as a prophet? Hmmm... But, "reasonable" or "kind"... no, not condescending, or at least I don't take it that way, I appreciate it. Yes, one of the things I am very conscious of doing or being here, Scott, is reasonable and kind... actually bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and one of the things that drives me to do that is because that is not the case with so many here, which is... well, terrible... terribly sinful, really. But back to the question at hand, I would say we are witnesses (Acts 1:8), not prophets.

...these things are not new, nor is the means by which they come from God.

Agree, surely.

Indeed, 1 Corinthians 15:23 is a verse not commonly or fully understood by most.

But that doesn't stop them from thinking they do... <smile> ...and telling everyone else about it, and even "beating people up" over it and about it.

Both of our translations say it slightly different.

But do not say different things.

But the original language refers to "each" as each one person.

Sure. We are individuals ~ and we are all one in each other and in Christ... God is making us so ~ at the same time. And one day it will be fully and completely so.

The dead in Christ primarily refers to the house of Israel proper...

Well not just the dead... <smile>

--not the continuing bloodline, but those who died before salvation had come, even including many gentiles.

Disagree. We are all one in Christ Jesus.

But that speaks of two different times and ministries--or as Christ referred to them, "folds."

Disagree, regarding the "folds"... I think you make a separation of these "times" and these "ministries" and even the "folds" in some respects that should not ~ and cannot, really ~ be made. But that's a common thing, unfortunately. I'll just paint it all with a couple of things we get from the writer of Hebrews:

• "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son..." (1:1-2)
• "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (13:8)

Which is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "But many who are first will be last, and the last first" (Matthew 19:30). Thus, the dead in Christ first, then the living...which includes those many of that generation and also of the times of the gentiles who died who believed--of which Jesus also referred to, saying, "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live" (John 11:25).

Okay, I think we can leave at this, then... although...

The dividing line then, is the cross. All who lived and died before the cross are referred to in the scriptures as "the dead in Christ", and after as "the living in Christ."

...yeah, disagree. So yeah, maybe we can leave it at this, agreeing to disagree.

All of which was "before the foundation of the world", but made manifest on the cross, and also in the life and time of "each" person, for the revealing of "that man of sin" after the fall ("the falling away"). "Then comes the end."

You're an interesting person, Scott. And I don't mean that in any sort of disparaging way. But you seem to have a very... "new age," I guess... way of looking at and talking about these things.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Everybody here would say that, Scott. Including me. But to use that, to weaponize it (in a sense), which many do and you kiiiiiiinda are herrrrrre... <smile> ...is... well, not good. <smile>

So would the prophets of old, who were also received with a similar response. But who do the scriptures say "weaponized", those who were sent or those who rejected their message? How is it that you have given no thought to what has happened before?

 

[PinSeeker]

So would the prophets of old, who were also received with a similar response.

So you think you are a prophet. I mean... okay.

But who do the scriptures say "weaponized", those who were sent or those who rejected their message? How is it that you have given no thought to what has happened before?

<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[ScottA]

So you think you are a prophet. I mean... okay.


<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

I am going to go back and read the rest of your post and perhaps respond for those who want to know the truth.

But I do not like your response confirmed here above. You know very well that what I said about what the scriptures have recorded and is the pattern of how God sends out those He wills to do so, and the response--that what I said of it is true. But you leave no excuse for your own behavior and response being any different. So be it.

 

[ScottA]

"Today you will be with Me in paradise," yes. But Jesus, as you know, was entombed for three days. So was His body buried? Or was He in paradise? I mean the answer is yes. And likewise, so it is for all the saints who have gone on before, and it will be for all of us who die before Jesus returns. The intermediate state is a theological concept that speculates regarding what kind state in which believers exist in heaven have while they/we wait for their/our physical bodies to be resurrected. We cannot really know, but we know that we will indeed exist in... some state of being, with Jesus, as the thief crucified on His right did; we will be with Him in paradise. Likewise, we can (or should be able to) see from Jesus's parable in Luke 16 that this is the case for unbelievers, too, but whatever it is, it will be... quite different... <shudder>

No buts. You simply do not understand.

"On earth as it is in heaven"--means what is with God is, and what is manifest in the earth only represents and reveals it when the times are fulfilled. Meaning, "today" Jesus and the thief on the cross were in Paradise, while all that was yet to be revealed was still unfolding in the times of this world.

But even the three days Jesus spent in the tomb, you apparently do not understand as well. These are the same three days He spent in the heart of the earth of his descending into the lower parts of the earth, and also "Go, tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’" Have you not actually learned? Why have you made yourself "that fox?"

Your "theological concept" are indeed mere speculation, the teachings of men. And why have you not learned that "what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain?" Or that this body is not to be glorified, but "returns to the dust" and is "dissolved" with the elements of this world?

"We cannot really know, but.." But nothing--yes, you do not know--but I have told you, as it is written, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

 

[ScottA]

Okay. <smile>

Think we're sort of talking past each other...

So you think of yourself as a prophet? Hmmm... But, "reasonable" or "kind"... no, not condescending, or at least I don't take it that way, I appreciate it. Yes, one of the things I am very conscious of doing or being here, Scott, is reasonable and kind... actually bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and one of the things that drives me to do that is because that is not the case with so many here, which is... well, terrible... terribly sinful, really. But back to the question at hand, I would say we are witnesses (Acts 1:8), not prophets.

Good. But while all are "witnesses", only "some prophets", which are not to be omitted as many do.

 

[PinSeeker]

I am going to go back and read the rest of your post and perhaps respond for those who want to know the truth.

Fair enough... and I might respond to some of your responses.

But I do not like your response confirmed here above.

Okay, well, again, nothing disparaging intended in anything I have said or will say. But Scott, I'm really not concerned with... or about... your "feelings," to be frank.

You know very well that what I said about what the scriptures have recorded and is the pattern of how God sends out those He wills to do so, and the response--that what I said of it is true.

Well... partially, yes.

But you leave no excuse for your own behavior and response being any different. So be it.

Hm. Yes, so be it. And... right back atcha, here...

You simply do not understand.

We think the same of each other, obviously. Although... I guess what I would say of you is that you seem to think you have gained understanding of... new, or special, revelation... As if there is any. But yes, so be it.

"On earth as it is in heaven"--means what is with God is, and what is manifest in the earth only represents and reveals it when the times are fulfilled. Meaning, "today" Jesus and the thief on the cross were in Paradise, while all that was yet to be revealed was still unfolding in the times of this world.

Hmmmm.

But even the three days Jesus spent in the tomb, you apparently do not understand as well. These are the same three days He spent in the heart of the earth of his descending into the lower parts of the earth, and also "Go, tell that fox, ‘Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.’" Have you not actually learned? Why have you made yourself "that fox?"

Hmmmm...

Your "theological concept" are indeed mere speculation, the teachings of men.

Again, right back atcha...

And why have you not learned that "what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain?" Or that this body is not to be glorified, but "returns to the dust" and is "dissolved" with the elements of this world?

Hmmmm... An advocate of annihilationism, too, it seems...

"We cannot really know, but.." But nothing--yes, you do not know--but I have told you...

You have indeed told me some things, yes... <smile>

as it is written, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Hmmmm...

Good. But while all are "witnesses", only "some prophets", which are not to be omitted as many do.

Hm. Again I would say, echoing the words of the writer of Hebrews, "(l)ong ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son..."

You know, yeah, I was both right (regarding some things) and wrong (regarding other things) about you, Scott. I mean, we would probably disagree those things, too, I'm sure.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Sure. We are individuals ~ and we are all one in each other and in Christ... God is making us so ~ at the same time. And one day it will be fully and completely so.

What is missing in most people's understanding causing the "one day it will be" position, is a proper understanding of the transition between eternity and time when we each are born into our own time, and then again between time and eternity when we "but, each in his own order" depart.

With God there is no passing of days or time, but rather everything always "is"--as we say in translation from heavenly to worldly terms, "the same yesterday, today, and forever"--which God has already said without translation, saying, "I am."

So--by what measure should a follower of Christ take up to express what is true--the measure of God, or that of men of this world? Is "one day" in the future a Godly term, or a worldly term? I ask rhetorically--because while "we who are alive and remain" in this world still live day to day--the word given is not "one day", but "today." Which was in former times referred to as "the day of the Lord." Which--no--none have missed His coming "as long as it is called ‘Today."

 

[PinSeeker]

What is missing in most people's understanding causing the "one day it will be" position, is a proper understanding of the transition between eternity and time when we each are born into out own time, and then again between time and eternity when we "but, each in his own order" depart.

Pardon me, but... ugh. I mean, you won't "pardon me," but okay...

With God there is no passing of days or time, but rather everything always "is"--as we say in translation from heavenly to worldly terms, "the same yesterday, today, and forever"--which God has already said without translation, saying, "I am."

Agreed...

So--by what measure should a follower of Christ take up to express what is true--the measure of God, or that of men of this world?

Is this... one question? Or like two or three?

Is "one day" in the future a Godly term, or a worldly term?

Is Christ's return yet future to us, Scott? Isn't it?

I ask rhetorically--because while "we who are alive and remain" in this world still live day to day...

Sure.

--the word given is not "one day", but "today." Which was in former times referred to as "the day of the Lord." Which--no--none have missed His coming "as long as it is called ‘Today."

Hmmmm...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Everybody here would say that, Scott. Including me. But to use that, to weaponize it (in a sense), which many do and you kiiiiiiinda are herrrrrre... <smile> ...is... well, not good. <smile>


"Today you will be with Me in paradise," yes. But Jesus, as you know, was entombed for three days. So was His body buried? Or was He in paradise? I mean the answer is yes. And likewise, so it is for all the saints who have gone on before, and it will be for all of us who die before Jesus returns. The intermediate state is a theological concept that speculates regarding what kind state in which believers exist in heaven have while they/we wait for their/our physical bodies to be resurrected. We cannot really know, but we know that we will indeed exist in... some state of being, with Jesus, as the thief crucified on His right did; we will be with Him in paradise. Likewise, we can (or should be able to) see from Jesus's parable in Luke 16 that this is the case for unbelievers, too, but whatever it is, it will be... quite different... <shudder>


Okay. <smile>


Think we're sort of talking past each other...


So you think of yourself as a prophet? Hmmm... But, "reasonable" or "kind"... no, not condescending, or at least I don't take it that way, I appreciate it. Yes, one of the things I am very conscious of doing or being here, Scott, is reasonable and kind... actually bearing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), and one of the things that drives me to do that is because that is not the case with so many here, which is... well, terrible... terribly sinful, really. But back to the question at hand, I would say we are witnesses (Acts 1:8), not prophets.


Agree, surely.


But that doesn't stop them from thinking they do... <smile> ...and telling everyone else about it, and even "beating people up" over it and about it.


But do not say different things.


Sure. We are individuals ~ and we are all one in each other and in Christ... God is making us so ~ at the same time. And one day it will be fully and completely so.


Well not just the dead... <smile>


Disagree. We are all one in Christ Jesus.


Disagree, regarding the "folds"... I think you make a separation of these "times" and these "ministries" and even the "folds" in some respects that should not ~ and cannot, really ~ be made. But that's a common thing, unfortunately. I'll just paint it all with a couple of things we get from the writer of Hebrews:

• "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son..." (1:1-2)
• "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (13:8)

Okay, I think we can leave at this, then... although...


...yeah, disagree. So yeah, maybe we can leave it at this, agreeing to disagree.


You're an interesting person, Scott. And I don't mean that in any sort of disparaging way. But you seem to have a very... "new age," I guess... way of looking at and talking about these things.

Grace and peace to you.

I have not been agreeing or disagreeing at any time.

As for the two different "folds"...again, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing, but quoting:

Matthew 15:24​

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”​

John 19:30​

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.​

John 10:16​

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.​

 

[PinSeeker]

I have not been agreeing or disagreeing at any time.

As for the two different "folds"...again, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing, but quoting:

Matthew 15:24​

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”​

John 19:30​

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.​

John 10:16​

And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.​

Very well. Grace and peace to you.

 

[ScottA]

Fair enough... and I might respond to some of your responses.

Okay, well, again, nothing disparaging intended in anything I have said or will say. But Scott, I'm really not concerned with... or about... your "feelings," to be frank.

Well... partially, yes.

Hm. Yes, so be it. And... right back atcha, here...

More attitude.

I wasn't sharing [my] "feelings", but my witness.

 

[PinSeeker]

More attitude.

Nope. If you're going to continue to insult my intelligence, so be it, but I reserve the right to react accordingly. An eye for an eye, as it were, but far be it from me to repay evil with evil.

But... "attitude"... is very prevalent on this board, unfortunately, along with combativeness, and just downright meanness... all the things that are antithetical to the fruit of the Spirit, unfortunately...

I wasn't sharing [my] "feelings", but my witness.

Fair enough.

Grace and peace.

 

[ScottA]

We think the same of each other, obviously. Although... I guess what I would say of you is that you seem to think you have gained understanding of... new, or special, revelation... As if there is any. But yes, so be it.

Hmmmm.

Hmmmm...

Again, right back atcha...

Hmmmm... An advocate of annihilationism, too, it seems...

You have indeed told me some things, yes... <smile>

Hmmmm...

Hm. Again I would say, echoing the words of the writer of Hebrews, "(l)ong ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son..."

You know, yeah, I was both right (regarding some things) and wrong (regarding other things) about you, Scott. I mean, we would probably disagree those things, too, I'm sure.

Grace and peace to you.

Yes, "annihilation" is what God has and is doing with the darkness from the beginning.

As for "in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son"--is He then not "the same yesterday, today, and forever"--not sending out any anymore?

As for you being right or wrong--this is not a contest, nor do we need to think we are left to ourselves to agree to disagree.

As for things being the same or different between you and I--there is no difference, except the God-given difference for which we are each sent--which is not level playing field. So--I make no challenge to or of you--but all that is written, that is what shall be.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, "annihilation" is what God has and is doing with the darkness from the beginning.

Disagree. Strongly. There is a destruction happening, and one day... (there it is again... <smile>) ...one day there will be no more darkness. We agree on that, I think. But the nature of this destruction it seems we do and will continue to disagree on. Like you say, though, so be it.

As for "in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son"--is He then not "the same yesterday, today, and forever"--not sending out any anymore?

I... really don't even know how you can make such an association and ask such a question, Scott. Ohhhh... okay, so as not to misconstrue your words... sending out what, Scott? Yes, there is certainly sending going on, so I guess the answer to your question is, no, sending has not become unnecessary. But again, who or what do you think is being sent today, and by whom?

As for you being right or wrong--this is not a contest...

<sigh> No, it's not a "contest." Agreed.

...nor do we need to think we are left to ourselves to agree to disagree.

At some point, though, humanly speaking, further conversation becomes... unprofitable.

As for things being the same or different between you and I--there is no difference, except the God-given difference for which we are each sent--which is not level playing field.

Hmmmm. I mean, as Christians, we are all sent, precisely in Jesus's terms in Matthew 28:19-20, and Acts 1:8, as I said.

So--I make no challenge to or of you--but all that is written, that is what shall be.

<chuckles> Well okay. <smile> Not necessarily disagreeing, just... okay.

You know, I think I need to say... all my little <comments/actions> ...are just meant to convey a little non-verbal communication that is really virtually impossible to convey in a forum/venue such as this. But none of it do I mean with any condescension or disparagement or anything the like.

Grace and peace to you, Scott.

 

[ScottA]

Is this... one question? Or like two or three?

Is Christ's return yet future to us, Scott? Isn't it?

It is one question.

Christ's return is yet future only to those who have not experience what He said of His return: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

It is in that way that the Holy Spirit is poured out, the timing of which is, "but each one in his own order." Which is not to say that "we who are alive and remain" in this world having a newborn spiritual body and also this old body of flesh and blood which is yet passing away, still await another day or a rapture of this flesh--which was never to occur--but rather that it has come already "within you" evident by change and a war within our members.

What then--shall we consider the end to be a Big Bang as some consider the beginning--or rather, "as the days of Noah", where His coming is "as a thief" even in secret not "with observation", but "at an hour you do not expect?"

 

[PinSeeker]

It is one question.

Christ's return is yet future only to those who have not experience what He said of His return: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me."

It is in that way that the Holy Spirit is poured out, the timing of which is, "but each one in his own order." Which is not to say that "we who are alive and remain" in this world having a newborn spiritual body and also this old body of flesh and blood which is yet passing away, still await another day or a rapture of this flesh--which was never to occur--but rather that it has come already "within you" evident by change and a war within our members.

What then--shall we consider the end to be a Big Bang as some consider the beginning--or rather, "as the days of Noah", where His coming is "as a thief" even in secret not "with observation", but "at an hour you do not expect?"

Okay, I mean this with just some humor, here, and that's all, really:

Grace and peace to you.