The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations

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7angels

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keras said:
Marcus, denial of the Prophetic Word will not change God's plans. Your argument isn't with me, if you have a better plan, tell God about it.
Not only are you wrong by saying the moon blood red and darkened are the same event, but you are wrong in thinking 1 Thess. 5:2-3 and 2 Thess. 2:1-3 are talking about the same Day. I would like to hear anyone else's beliefs on these things.

[SIZE=medium]What the Word tells us WILL happen:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The enemies of the Lord gather[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Micah 4:11, Ezekiel 36:2[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]They conspire to attack Israel[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Psalm 83:1-8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]They prepare their weapons[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Psalm 7:12, Ezekiel 7:14 [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium][the situation today][/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The Lord will make those weapons recoil upon themselves [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]- Psalm 7:13-16, Obad. 15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God will use His Creation, the sun to send fire[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Deut. 32:22 & 34-34, Isaiah 30:26 & 30, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]He will judge the nations, all the wicked will die[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Isaiah 63:1-6, Hab. 3:12, Rev 14 18-20, Isaiah 66:17, Isaiah 29:20-21, Hebrews 10:27[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The sun will explode an extremely bright flash and the moon will shine bright red[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31, Acts 2:20, Rev. 6:12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Then the sun, moon and stars will be obscured by the approaching Coronal Mass Ejection[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Isaiah 13:9-13, Ezekiel 32:7-8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]A huge superhot mass of hydrogen plasma approaches the earth[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – Joel 1:15-20, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 1:14-18[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Everyone will be terrified[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Jer. 6:24-26, Ezekiel 21:5-7a, Isaiah 13:6-8, Rev. 6:15-17[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The whole earth will be enveloped by fire[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Isaiah 66:15, Zeph. 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Only a remnant will survive in the Holy Land[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Zech. 13:8-9, Isaiah 6:11-13[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]His enemies will become ashes[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Malachi 4:3, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Jer. 49:2, Matthew 3:12b[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Millions will die around the world[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Psalm 97:3-5, Jer. 25:33, Isaiah 13:12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But most will take shelter until it passes and survive to form a One World Govt[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Daniel 7:23-24, Rev. 17:12[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The Holy Land will be regenerated[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Joel 2:21-24, Isaiah 35, Amos 9:13-15, Jer. 33:12-14[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And the Lord's righteous people will gather there[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Rev 7:9[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]They will become the new nation of Beulah[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Isaiah 62:1-5, Ezekiel 36:3-38, Jer. 31[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]They will build a new Temple[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – Zech. 6:15, Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 40 to 48[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The attack by a Northern army will be won by the Lord[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] – Ezekiel 38:8 & 22, Joel 2:20[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The leaders of Beulah will sign a peace treaty with the leader of the O.W.G[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Daniel 9:27, Isaiah 28:15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Seven years later, Jesus will Return for His Millennial reign[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Rev 19:11-21, Matthew 24:30[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The Lord has told us His plans and He will not relent or change them[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Jeremiah 4:28[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There are plenty more prophesies and details to prove this scenario. Believe it or not; up to all to decide![/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Psalm 1:11-12[/SIZE]
i wonder where you get the knowledge and understanding of what the scriptures you posted mean. i read the scriptures of your point and i don't see how you came to your conclusions. for example,[SIZE=medium]The sun will explode an extremely bright flash and the moon will shine bright red. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium] [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]reading your scriptures listed i f[/SIZE]ail to see where it says anywhere there that the sun explodes. it says the sun goes dark. please do not make assumptions without saying that these scriptures could be referring to the sun exploding because.… all you have are theories and no proof. please don't twist scripture to provide proof for you points. you could be right in your assumptions but as i said they are just theories not actual proof.

​i don't agree with everything marcus says either but his are based on the bible as far as i have seen so far.

God bless
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Michael V Pardo said:
What does knowing all these things do for us?
I can't say "know" all yet, but as science is the study of God's creation; I think it behooves us to better understand what is happening in the cosmos. We're still learning, and "knowledge will increase" in the end-times. What we do with it is what is more important; just 'knowing' may be power, but what we do with it is what matters.
Michael V Pardo said:
To which of you has He revealed something new and if He has, will He not reveal it to all?
I cringe when someone says: "God told me..." and I know I am dealing with someone who is delusional. God has revealed what we need to know. Putting it all together - now, aye, there's the rub! I have put together a new way of dealing with end-time prophecy and I have formed a new kind of technique: sequencing linear narratives. It's a new paradigm my pastor told me. It does put me in a new camp: Pre-Wrath. What I like about my methodology of putting it all together is that there is no internal inconsistency in the Bible that presents any fundamental "problem."

What is an internal Bible inconsistency? Take a "last day" adherent. They say the Day of the Lord comes on the last day of the one 'seven.' However, this contradicts what Jesus said that no one but the Father knew when the Day of the Lord would come. My eschatology sets no date; just the sequence of events in the order in which they come. To do that, I use various linear narratives in the Bible.
Michael V Pardo said:
Does your view point encourage you to greater acts of kindness and love to your fellow man?
My eschatological view's purpose to encourage the Elect to endure patiently. Acts of kindness and brotherly love is my cross to bear; each of us strives to improve and the Christian is not perfect: just forgiven. One of my character defects is telling people: "YOU'RE WRONG!" And I must admit that stupidity and illogical leaps of conclusions drive me up the wall. I try not to let idiocy get to me so much. Rather argue incessantly, I have decided to switch gears and present something that might actually increase theological study of God's Word.
Michael V Pardo said:
How are you doing with regard to the love of the brethren?
Better in person. Some people I just leave alone, like rabid liberals, Hillary supporters, Obama voters, 99%ers, conspiracy theorists - and especially those idiots who believe in chemtrails... which I regularly make.
 

keras

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7angels said:
i wonder where you get the knowledge and understanding of what the scriptures you posted mean. i read the scriptures of your point and i don't see how you came to your conclusions. for example,[SIZE=medium]The sun will explode an extremely bright flash and the moon will shine bright red. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium] [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]reading your scriptures listed i f[/SIZE]ail to see where it says anywhere there that the sun explodes. it says the sun goes dark. please do not make assumptions without saying that these scriptures could be referring to the sun exploding because.… all you have are theories and no proof. please don't twist scripture to provide proof for you points. you could be right in your assumptions but as i said they are just theories not actual proof.

​i don't agree with everything marcus says either but his are based on the bible as far as i have seen so far.

God bless
I base my writing on the Bible, it is our only source of truth for our salvation and for what the Lord has planned for our future.
But we do also have modern knowledge, we have actually been to the moon and we know that the sun can emit potentially disastrous sunspots.

Have you really looked at my scripture quotes? Isaiah 30:26 specifically says that one day, the sun will shine seven times brighter... Also Malachi 4:1 the day comes, burning like a furnace.... Plus about 70 other prophesies that describe this forthcoming Day of fire from the sky.
Soon after this explosion of the sun, the huge mass of cosmic particles heading toward earth, will obscure the sun and stars and as it hits the moon, that will glow blood red. Our atmosphere will be pushed apart, like a scroll and then the earth will be devastated. We will lose all our modern infrastructure, but it is the Middle east that is worst affected. The strike will happen at mid day ME time, Zephaniah 2:4, and will depopulate the entire area excepting for a remnant in Jerusalem. Isaiah 29:4

What we all must do is put aside any teachings and beliefs we may have that aren't fully supported by scripture. For example: to take the Sixth Seal event, Rev. 6:12-17 and place it at the Return, Rev 19:11 is quite wrong and a serious change to the sequence of end times.

It seems to me that those who deny this soon to happen, fiery blast instigated by the Lord, are unable to grasp the truth of how God must correct a civilization that is once again 'as in the days of Noah' and as He promised to never again to flood the earth, this time it will be by fire. Deut. 32:22, 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27,
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Michael V Pardo said:
I do believe that it is necessary to prepare ourselves for the times, but I'm not expecting "Scotty" to "beam me up," so how do I (or anyone else for that matter) prepare for persecutions, famines, pestilences, wars, etc., that is other than in drawing near to God in prayer, in fellowship, and in worship?
I am doing some things now to prepare my family for a time when we cannot buy or sell. However, there is no need to panic now, or act like it's all gonna end this week, this month, next month, this year, next year, or anytime that is less than three and a half years from now.

From my study, until two things happen: the fourth terrible beast forms out of a combination of three concurrent end-time nations, and some agreement is formed which allows for Israel to relax behind white-washed walls - things are going to proceed forward at a slow heat. I have to prepare as if this world is going to go on for the rest of my life. But once those two things happen, we will be oppressed for three and a half years so that this time of political correctness seems like the good old day - like when we could openly discuss eschatology. Then the crap will really hit the fan. When you see the Temple being rebuilt in Jerusalem - start stockpiling.

Still, all we have is today, and my first focus is each day. I pray to give up my will and my life to God each morning, and for knowledge of His Will for me and the power to carry that out. What is God's Will? Why the next, right, loving thing of course.
Michael V Pardo said:
Am I way off here or are we all servants of the same God?
We are all children of God: each of us has certain gifts. Not everyone who wants to teach should. Some teach confusion and error. They say they teach the Bible, but all too often they make the Bible say what they want to say, and not let God's Word speak for itself.
 

michaelvpardo

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
I can't say "know" all yet, but as science is the study of God's creation; I think it behooves us to better understand what is happening in the cosmos. We're still learning, and "knowledge will increase" in the end-times. What we do with it is what is more important; just 'knowing' may be power, but what we do with it is what matters.


I cringe when someone says: "God told me..." and I know I am dealing with someone who is delusional. God has revealed what we need to know. Putting it all together - now, aye, there's the rub! I have put together a new way of dealing with end-time prophecy and I have formed a new kind of technique: sequencing linear narratives. It's a new paradigm my pastor told me. It does put me in a new camp: Pre-Wrath. What I like about my methodology of putting it all together is that there is no internal inconsistency in the Bible that presents any fundamental "problem."

What is an internal Bible inconsistency? Take a "last day" adherent. They say the Day of the Lord comes on the last day of the one 'seven.' However, this contradicts what Jesus said that no one but the Father knew when the Day of the Lord would come. My eschatology sets no date; just the sequence of events in the order in which they come. To do that, I use various linear narratives in the Bible.


My eschatological view's purpose to encourage the Elect to endure patiently. Acts of kindness and brotherly love is my cross to bear; each of us strives to improve and the Christian is not perfect: just forgiven. One of my character defects is telling people: "YOU'RE WRONG!" And I must admit that stupidity and illogical leaps of conclusions drive me up the wall. I try not to let idiocy get to me so much. Rather argue incessantly, I have decided to switch gears and present something that might actually increase theological study of God's Word.
Fair enough brother.
Part of answering other comments and especially doctrinal type statements involves an assessment of motive of the author which tends to move us on to dangerous ground. That is, who is there among us qualified to judge the motive of a person's heart. I seriously doubt that we're qualified to judge our own motives, much less that of others: The heart is deceitfully wicked and I'm inclined to agree with God about our imagination as well.
As one of those who believes that God teaches each of us individually while in study and meditation upon His word, as well as through the medium of trained teachers, educators, pastors, etc., I firmly believe that the Lord has taught me that pre-trib rapture doctrine is carnal and deceptive, so I've endeavored to provide biblical "fact," verses in their context and plain meaning without doing violence to the text, to support my belief and at the same time to warn the "Body" of genuine believers of the danger of misinterpretation according to carnal desire along with its concurrent apathy and holy huddle mentality.
Am I called to this as a purpose in Christ? I seriously doubt it.
I do however believe that many of us (or at least more than a few) in the body have been called to a prophetic role in the church (not new revelation, but restoration or course correction if you're of a navigational bent). Since forums like this one are a portal to other believers in the world and typically to those outside of our immediate sphere of influence, you would expect the Lord to use it in such ways.
Knowledge puffs up, but understanding is good. We all want to know what the Lord is doing with and in our lives, but He doesn't generally show us the end from the beginning and probably because getting there is the testimony of our lives. We all (at least I hope that we all) want to understand the Lord better and that falls within the realm of your expressed interest, theology, but I prefer to know Him better personally rather than to simply know more about Him. We experience God in other believers to the extent that they model Christ in behavior and in thought, and of course the only measure available to us is the Holy Scripture and the person of God's Son, whom we receive by faith and through the person of His Spirit.
Through careful study we may arrive at a clearer or more correct understanding of prophetic events, or perhaps a gestaltic view of God's purposes in creation, including the times that we find ourselves in, but if it doesn't make us more like Christ, if it doesn't draw us closer together in the face of an increasingly hostile world, if it doesn't fill us with a greater awe for our Creator and a greater yearning for the return of our Lord, what good is it and how does it fulfill His purpose for us?
I'm not suggesting that there isn't a place for lively discussion and exchange of ideas in our perception of truth, but I would suggest that we have an imperative from our Lord to build up and not to tear down. The Lord Himself will test each one's work. That doesn't mean we shouldn't actively identify gross error, but typically, the scripture speaks for itself. When an individual persists in ignoring the biblical text at its plainest meaning and obviously is pushing an agenda which justifies behaviors and doctrines contrary to that which is sound, the site's administrators and moderators will typically deactivate accounts or administer a type of church discipline appropriate to the venue. I've learned a great deal from people here, including those that I actively disagree with, but when maintaining a degree of humility gets difficult for us, you can be sure that God is able to set things right and by whatever means necessary. In the end, those that are Christ's at His appearing will have moved toward a greater agreement in all things pertaining to life and godliness, so in the meantime we should probably allow His peace to reign in our hearts so that our testimony will remain His testimony, faithful in word and in deed. Amen. I have to preach this to myself as much to others, so don't take it personally. I think that you all have sharp minds and potentially valid insights, but none of us are called to dominate the rest and if that's anyone's thinking, they're in for a fall. I think that its better to stand with brothers than to fall by yourself, but I could certainly be wrong. God bless you all. Even with the negative commentary this is still more pleasant than trying to navigate VA web sites (or any government sites that I've encountered) so I feel obliged to thank you for the diversion this afternoon.
 

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The Last Trumpet


1CO 15:51b “We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.”

This is the only reference in the Bible giving order to the trumpet which calls the Elect home. Here Paul clearly states this trumpet is last. This trumpet call which heralds the rapture has two other references, one by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse and the other by Paul:

MT 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

1TH 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Perhaps the first question one asks is: Should this trumpet be taken literally? In the sense that neither Matthew nor Paul use simile as is done in Revelation 1:10 or 4:1, no. But the lack of a conventional construct delineating a simile does not mean this use is figurative. If this were the only reference to a trumpet, then a figurative usage might be suggested. However, a trumpet call is repeated often in the Old Testament as a feature of the Day of the Lord.

ISA 27:12 In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered up one by one. 13 And in that day a great trumpet will sound.

This prophetic multiple accounts provides evidence for a picture of the Day of the Lord. Isaiah ties that to a gathering, laqat, which means to pick, to gather up, or to glean. In the day of the gathering a trumpet is blown.
So with the lack of simile and the added emphasis from the Old Testament, this trumpet call can be taken as an actual event. The trouble with trumpets though, is that there are so many of them. Trumpets are sounded in the advance of battle on both sides of a conflict, and trumpets sound during battle which will be shown to occur on the Day of the Lord as well. Trumpets also figure prominently with God’s Wrath in the seventh Seal. The question then is; what do trumpets represent and which is which? There are four that can be discerned.

The first type of trumpet calls Christ’s own and from the accounts in Matthew and Thessalonians, it is Jesus who sounds it.. This trumpet literal wakes the dead, but only those that can hear it: the dead in Christ. A trumpet also precedes the gathering of the Elect, those who are still alive and are left. This trumpet is a call home and the reference in Matthew, 1st Corinthians, 1st Thessalonians and Isaiah definitely align this category including in those passages direct reference to the rapture. The second type of trumpet is sounded as a warning to a coming advance.

JOEL 2:1 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the LORD is coming.
It is close at hand--

JOEL 2:2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was of old
nor ever will be in ages to come.


In Joel, the blowing of the trumpet is in Zion, on a hill, and it precedes the coming of the Lord as with Isaiah. In the following verse the consequence arrives with the march of the army God has mustered from faraway lands - those of the twelve tribes which number 144,000. So both prophetic accounts pick different aspects of this Day to bring forward, which is not unusual for multiple accounts to do, indeed, having different perspectives allows for added information. Each account though is perfectly inline with a Day of the Lord where Jesus touches down on the Mount of Olives to begin His calling of the Saints and the implementation of His Wrath.

Joel’s reference could fit the bill, as it precedes the battle trumpets. The difficulty lies with knowing who is blowing the trumpet though. Like the reference in Joel 1:14, this blast may sound an alarm within the Jewish community. Just because it is ordered before the coming of the army who burns the tares does not mean it is the trumpet which heralds the gathering of the wheat which precedes the coming of the army too. So, a second type of trumpet can be discerned from Scripture. This section of Joel will be examined in greater detail during the Wrath of God. The premise here is that this trumpet is an alarm sounded by the people in response to a third type of trumpet which is coming.

ZEP 1:14 "The great day of the LORD is near--
near and coming quickly.
Listen! The cry on the day of the LORD will be bitter,
the shouting of the warrior there.

ZEP 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath,
a day of distress and anguish,
a day of trouble and ruin,
a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness,

ZEP 1:16 a day of trumpet and battle cry
against the fortified cities
and against the corner towers.


The third type of trumpet aligned with the Day of the Lord concerns battle. Tying it to the 144,000 is a logical choice though. God is mustering an army. The Lord is also gathering the Elect. The first numbers 144,000. The second is a Great Multitude. (Still another segment involved in the first resurrection is the martyred for Christ and that number is not yet complete at the moment in time that is the Day of the Lord.)

Many look at the reference in 1st Thessalonians 3:13 as an example that the entire Church is involved with the Lord in taking back the Earth. However, as with the example of Gideon, does God need billions of people to aid Him? God told Gideon to winnow the army he had raised and after Gideon released the men, the number was reduced from 32,000 to 10,000. That was still too many, so God instructed Gideon how to choose the ones He wanted to take on the Midianites and the number was reduced to 300 (Judges 7:2-7).

In the previous example of the three angels coming between the mustering of God’s army and the impending Harvest in Revelation 14, the first angel provides the answer to Jesus’ direction upon the Mount of Olives before His crucifixion that first the Gospel must be preached to all the world. Most people understand this to be a function of the Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20. Some take this commission as being the function of the Church to fulfill, but Revelation 14:6 says otherwise.

So in dual fashion, God does not need billions to take on billions as Gideon did not need tens of thousands to rout the Midianite horde. Nor are the great events surrounding the Day of the Lord the province of the Church as with the Gospel message finally being preached in the entire world. The Church is to be carried up onto the cloud and taken into the Heavenly realm just as the wheat is gathered (led together) into the barn. As Zephaniah said:

ZEP 1:7 Be silent before the Sovereign LORD,
for the day of the LORD is near.
The LORD has prepared a sacrifice;
he has consecrated those he has invited.


The Church is invited to the wedding feast of the Lamb. Fighting is not on their plate. God is mustering an army though. So seeing the 144,000 as the army God musters, who stay with Jesus for the remainder of the Wrath of God through the battle of Armageddon, is a logical choice buttressed by a theology which like Job’s questioning by God shows God is sufficient to bring His plan for Salvation to completion. Taking the third type of trumpet to be aligned with the 144,000; to be a trumpet of battle; to be a sound which will bring Israel fear can be discerned out of the Old Testament prophecy wrapped around the Day of the Lord.

The fourth type of trumpet concerns Wrath. The seven Trumpets of the seventh Seal herald each earthly judgment of God’s Wrath. This provides the thumbprint of God upon each catastrophe as being divinely originated. An important distinction from identifying the seventh Trumpet as the Last Trumpet in 1st Corinthians is that an angel sounds the seventh Trumpet as contrasted to Jesus’ trumpet call of Salvation in its third possible meaning.

Now that each type of trumpet has been laid out, how does this trumpet call of Paul in 1st Corinthians 15:52 qualify as last? Taking a literal approach, this would be a natural outcome from the plain meaning of ‘last’ in the Greek. Indeed this is a major tenet of the eschatological school that sees a Pre-Millennial, Post-Tribulation Rapture. The Last Trumpet, they then figure, is the seventh Trumpet of God’s Wrath. As it coincides with Christ’ Victory, the Post-Tribulation school of eschatology pegs the Rapture as happening at the end of the one ‘seven.’

That school confers the title of “tribulation” to the entire seventieth ‘seven.’ Thus, the Rapture is reserved until the end of all the trumpet judgments and only with the last trumpet will the Church be united in Christ. To counter the effect of having the Church go through all of God’s judgments and align it with the verses which indicate that God’s Wrath does not fall unto the Church, the protection of the Church of Philadelphia is provided for all under the Post-Tribulation eschatological model. By assigning the title ‘tribulation’ to the entire seventieth ‘seven,’ the Post-Tribulation is no different than Pre- Tribulation. Oddly enough, both seek to avoid being under God’s Wrath by using the one verse of Revelation 3:10 (covered in chapter 3).

However, as the first trumpet presented within this book, a major dichotomy is present: If one wants to take the entire Bible into account in a holistic manner where any eschatological exegesis has to be complete in its agreement, then this certainly presents an apparent dilemma: How is it that the last trumpet can be first?

As a way of explanation, taking the observer true point of view approach one could make the argument that this last trumpet applies just to the Church. In this case, it would be the last trumpet those who are alive and are left hear. While true in a very literal sense, this does not seem complete the “feel” of Paul in 1st Corinthians; there he seems to be definite in naming a time for this trumpet in a generic sense.

His mention of ‘last’ in regards to this trumpet forces an examination of the person who made the statement so as to ascertain how he was using the phrase. Paul sets up a classical communication problem every message must overcome: Was the message he conveyed, actually received and understood by his intended audience? Is it understood today as he intended? In the opening of Chapter 2, five rules of interpretation were discussed. The first rule was to examine who was the author or speaking in looking at a particular verse. Paul’s Jewish heritage along with the customs and practices he would have practiced have to considered as in determining what information he wished to convey.

In Colossians, Paul makes a declarative statement which shows the freedom Christians have in Christ which points to another aspect of his faith: Judaism. While the verses quoted below speak against false teaching, there is another meaning to render from these words:

COL 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day ― 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. (NASB)

While the reality is Christ, the Old Testament festivals, celebrations and Sabbaths are shadows of things that are to come. This brings up an interesting point though, and one that many Christians are unaware: the fall Jewish festivals. In an eschatological sense, there is a parallel there to the Church age.

The end of Christ’s advent occurred with the Pesah, the Passover, or what is now mistakenly called Easter. Passover celebrates the tenth plague passing over the Jews and afflicting the firstborn of Egypt and the Israelis subsequent release from bondage under Egypt. Jesus continued with the Apostles after that for forty days, and left, rising from the Mount of Olives in their sight. One of His last recorded instructions was to wait in Jerusalem.
Acts records that on the Day of Pentecost, literally meaning fifty days after the Passover, Jesus’ words were proven true and the Apostles were baptized by the Holy Spirit. This day is also called the Shavuot. This is called the Festival of Weeks or the Festival of Firstfruits as well. It is in celebration of the Law being given by God to Moses and the Hebrews. In this time, Jews celebrate the Law as the revealing of the Torah. In it, there is a strong remembrance that while they are no longer slaves and have been freed, freedom is not without service. But now it is to God and to be given freely.

One of the traditions imitating the actions that happen in Exodus 19:19 is the blowing of a trumpet. This trumpet was actually a ram’s horn called a shofar. Typically, the left horn of the Akedah ram would be used. The trumpet which began the Festival of Firstfruits was called the First Trumpet.

Pentecost, or Shavuot has many overtones for the Christian. It is the time of Firstfruits from the Spring, just as Christians are products of the firstfruit which is Christ, Christians also possess the firstfruit of the Spirit. Another overtone is the marriage between God and Israel as they enter into a covenant relationship with the Law. Likewise, Christians enter into that same relationship, being grafted into the tree, and the Church becomes the spiritual Israel wed to the Lamb.

The corresponding other side of the year has virtually no acknowledgement in Christian circles. However, the fall Harvest festivals have some ramifications for the Christian. Just as the Spring Festivals are so important in establishing the Church age, the Fall Festivals may point to shadows of things to come.

The Fall Festivals are the High Holidays. These begin with Rosh ha-Shanah, the Jewish New Year. This Holy Day was not called Rosh ha-Shanah until Talmudic times. Instead, it is referred to in the Law as Yom Teruah - the Day of Sounding the Shofar. Leviticus 23:24 states this is done with trumpet blasts. Rosh ha-Shanah with all its trumpets begins with a single trumpet blast. This trumpet blast can only be made when the new moon is actually observed. So while the moons are able to be calculated, Rosh ha-Shanah carries with it some uncertainty as to when it will come depending upon cloud cover. Numbers 10:10 indicates trumpet blasts accompany all the major festivals and feasts. While this Fall Festival has a number of trumpets, sounding the shofar even a 100 times on the first day, the entire period is called the Feast of Trumpets. The one-hundredth trumpet, a shofar, the right half of the Adekah Ram, is called the "last trumpet." This appointed time before God is then followed by many various Trumpet blasts throughout the city in celebration of Rosh ha-Shanah; the 'last trumpet,' is not the last trumpet to sound during this festival.

These matching horns represent the two horns which trapped the ram in the thicket in Genesis 22:13. Thus God provided the sacrifice as Abraham had said. The first shofar marks the beginning of the growing season with the Festival of Firstfruits. Not without coincidence, this also corresponds to the start of the Church Age. The second shofar, its mirror image being the opposite horn from a single ram, marks the end of the growing season with the Festival of Trumpets. Likewise, in Jesus, God has provided a living sacrifice so as to redeem the Church out of the world. The point presented here is that the Last Trumpet signifies the end of the Church Age as well.

As a way of suggestion, Paul is using an Old Testament analogy where God provided the ram to spare Isaac to time the coming of Christ. The mirror image of the two horns of the Akedah ram bookending the growing season also begin and end the Church Age. Paul’s use of ‘last’ trumpet may be more aptly read “last trumpet” to refer to this aspect of the Jewish festivals ― festivals Paul says are shadows of what is to come.

Rosh ha-Shanah is also and perhaps not by coincidence, a two day festival much like the Day of the Lord is rapidly shaping up to be two days in length. If it is a shadow of things to come, then like the Passover Seder which was used by Christ to take the Bread of Salvation as an example of His body and the Cup of Redemption as an example of His blood, then Rosh ha-Shanah may very well foreshadow the “returning anew” of the Jewish New Year with the arrival of Christ at the end of the Church age. This makes two similar cliff walls, one starting the Church age and another ending it. Having the gap in time between the Spring and the Fall being bridged by the ram’s horns is symbolic of the Lamb’s bridging of the Church age with His ascension and return.

Jesus fulfilled the Spring Festivals during His First Advent completely. Jesus will fulfill the Fall Festivals when His Second Advent commences. Concerning that beginning of His Return there are these facts:

  • The Last Trump has the distinction of being the FIRST trumpet to sound the Festival of Trumpets.
  • Rosh ha-Shanah also is the only TWO-Day Holy Day (singular) in the Jewish system.
  • Rosh ha-Shanah was also problematic in its coming. While the phases of the moon could be plotted out - this New Moon had to be observed at sunset for Rosh ha-Shanah to be announced. Thus it might not come when anticipated, but could come the following evening.
  • During Rosh ha-Shanah many other Trumpets are sounded.
  • Rosh ha-Shanah is followed by the Days of Awe which are seven days long. Additional trumpets continue to be sounded during this time of reflection and soul-searching for the Jew.
  • Only after this time do the Jews celebrate Yom Kippur which is the Atonement, or as one Jewish author writes the At-one-ment. This is when they will be reconciled to God through their sacrificial system. It also points to the time after the one ‘seven’ when the Remnant will see their Lord as the One they had pierced and they will weep.
To sum up the festivals, the Feast of Trumpets is followed by a week called the Days of Awe. On the tenth of Tishri is the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur. These High Holidays remain as a pattern of things to come in the unfolding of the sequence of events. What is ironically interesting here is that the first day of the Festival of Trumpets should be announced by the Last Trumpet as it was known in Paul’s time.

Paul, being a Pharisee and trained in the law, would be intimately familiar with the High Holidays. To understand what Paul is trying to convey to the Corinthians, the language he uses has to be understood in the context of his life. This points the reference he makes to the Last Trumpet as being connected with the New Year celebration. The theme of renewal which occurs with Rosh ha-Shanah, the sense of foreboding, and the aspect of judgment all work to convey on Paul’s part the Old Testament prophecies he would have known so well along with the new sense of joy he would have as the author of Acts said calling the Day of the Lord as great and glorious.

The Last Trumpet need not be the last possible trumpet. Indeed with the example of the Jewish Fall Festivals, it can be the first trumpet of many from the sounding trumpet announcing the new moon. If the last of the ceremony in the Temple, it is also not "last" but is followed by many blasts over the next day or days. In the times of Paul, he would have understood the Last Trumpet as being connected to the first in a series of trumpets. Thus with added understanding, Christians can look forward to this last trumpet without having to endure the trumpet calls of battle on the succeeding Day of the Lord and the Trumpets of Wrath which come forward when the seventh Seal is broken and the decrees on the Scroll can be read.
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Comes Like a Thief

When Jesus comes, He comes like a thief. So is every time that Jesus is said to come like a thief the same event? No. Coming “like” a thief is not an event per se, but a descriptive phrase. The proof for this is in the language where the simile of “like” is used. Thus the coming parousia of Jesus is described to be like a thief. Therefore, “coming like a thief” doesn’t qualify as a specific and unique event because it is descriptive in nature and does not describe a specific action such as: coming on the clouds.

The aspect of thievery in Jesus’ coming usually is interpreted only to be in the aspect of being unexpected, however, coming like a thief has more than one possible meaning. While unexpected is one, Paul states in 1st Thessalonians 5 that while the Day of the Lord will come like a thief, it will not surprise the Christian (v.4). So how is the Day of the Lord like a thief to the Elect? He comes to steal the most precious commodity in the whole world from the Prince of the Air, Satan, before he can destroy them completely. Thus, Jesus can bind the strong man, and loot his house, the earth, of what is valuable, and to God that is the Elect.

There is a third meaning which applies to the Day of the Lord as well as shown in Scripture: literally breaking in to a fortress or an abode despite its defenses. The armies of the Lord in Joel 2 climb over walls; break into houses, and:

Joel 2:9 …like thieves they enter through the windows.

So there are three ways in which Jesus can come like a thief on the Day of the Lord:
  1. Unexpectedly
  2. To steal
  3. To break in
Is every time that Jesus comes like a thief then referencing the Day of the Lord? Not necessarily because it is merely descriptive and not a specific and unique event per se. There is an additional time Jesus is said to come like a thief which can be confused with the Day of the Lord, but can be shown to be eliminated from that specific Day by the sequence of events in that account. The verse in question is Revelation 16:15.

Rev 16:15 "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."

This verse occurs within the larger context of the detailed parallel account of the one ‘seven’ in Revelation chapters 13 through 16 inclusive. Repeating from chapter one of this book, in outline form from the four chapters of Revelation 13 through 16, are the sequence of events of those four chapters in which verse 16:15 is mentioned:

  • The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea”
    Worship of the beast (rebellion against God)

[*]Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven'
  • He wages war against the Saints
  • We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15)

[*]Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky'
[*]Erection of the talking image of the anti-Christ: the midpoint abomination
[*]Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever for the Church in terms of persecution
[*]144,000 assembled on Mount Zion
[*]3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked
[*]Son of Man coming on the clouds
[*]Harvest from the clouds
[*]Avenging Angels - Blood and Fire
[*]First Bowl - Sores on Man
[*]Second Bowl - All sea to blood
[*]Third Bowl - All water to blood
[*]Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat
[*]Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark
[*]Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E
  • Coming like a thief

[*]Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake
The Day of the Lord is described in chapter 14 with Jesus coming on the clouds. This event is replicated in Mt 24:15 and 1Th 4:16. Furthermore, Paul then labels the gathering of Saints as coincidental with the Day of Christ which is synonymous with the Day of the Lord because Christ is Lord. The Day of the Lord has already happened by the time Jesus makes this declaration in Revelation 16:15, so what does this verse infer?

Looking at the action in the verse gives some clue so as to separate it from the harvest of the Saints in Revelation 14:14-16. First, the recipients of the message must remain awake and clothed. This is in stark contrast to the message Jesus gives the Church in one shall be taken even if two are in bed in Luke 17:34 yet it does not invalidate the message in Mark 13:36 which might be used to suggest Revelation 16:15 applies to the Church because sleeping there is admonished. However, the verse in Mark 13, in context, is in relation to “watching,” and again, by watching, the Day of the Lord will not come upon the Elect without the Saints knowing that time is nigh. Indeed, the sequence of events validates that the Day of the Lord has a distinct time frame within broader events so that it can be anticipated, i.e., it is not going to happen at any moment but only when certain prerequisite events come to pass.

Secondly, unlike those that don’t watch and don’t know the time is ripe who are surprised when the Master comes home and who will be left behind to burn with the tares in the field of this world; those who don’t abide by Jesus’ admonishment are not left behind but go with the rest. The penalty they incur is not being subject to God’s Wrath, but shame at being naked. This is an important distinction which separates those covered by this verse from ordinary folk who are left behind because they lost faith or never had it in the first place.

So who is the target audience for Revelation 16:15? It is the Remnant Jews from Judea who fled into the wilderness to escape the invading army of the beast of a man from the North coupled with those Jews from Jerusalem who ran eastward from the city, through the newly cleft valley in the Mount of Olives. These Remnant Jews from the woman Israel are protected and shielded by God through the second half of the one ‘seven.’ This particular verse comes after the sixth Bowl is poured out and before the seventh Bowl. The Remnant Jews are shepherded through the Wrath of God and must move on a moment’s notice so as to be able to avoid calamities which will overtake the wicked as God’s Wrath is poured out on them.

The sequence of events can be revised to show this message to the Remnant Jews:
  • Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon N/S/E
    Message to the Remnant Jews to remain vigilant

[*]Seventh Bowl - Earth changing earthquake
In the sequence of events, this message happens during the later portion of God’s Wrath right before the end. The descriptive phrase of coming like a thief does not invalidate previous events in the same account which have the Redemption of the Elect occurring prior to God’s Wrath which is consistent among the accounts depicting the Rapture and in line with God’s Word in the Epistles which buttresses that the Church is not destined for Wrath, nor needs to endure it.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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I think there is cause to pause about who is right and who is wrong on this discussion.

1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.


Each of us should be relying on God to help those that oppose us in seeing the truth in His words as only He can do it.

At this link are all the verses referencing the exact phrase of the "day of the Lord" in the KJV.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=day+of+the+Lord&version=KJV&searchtype=phrase

If any one cares to study it, that list of references alone is not consistent in describing that day of the Lord being the same day with all of that happening in it.

I see two days of the Lord out of most of those references.

The first day is the pre tribulational rapture for the Marriage Supper and the last day of the Lord is when He actually comes back with the pre trib raptured saints at the end of the great tribulation.

1 Corinthians 5:5 in context with the whole chapter is symbolic and literal in how God will judge His House first at the pre tribulational rapture event. The Bridegroom will excommunicate those not ready and found abiding in Him & His words as His disciples from having a seat at the table of the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

I point out that 1 Thessalonians 5:2 is that the first day of the Lord is the only day of the Lord that can come like a thief in the night because the second day of the Lord is one hard to miss when He is coming back as the King of kings to battle the armies of Satan that are amassing on Jerusalem.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Two Days of the Lord? Like I said, there are many juxtaposing opposites in the Day of the Lord, but to have two days so far apart is not necessary. All we need do is look at the Sixth Seal / Seventh Seal: they are separated by 30 minutes. Yet here in Revelation we see the example of Lot and Noah: Rescue and then Wrath. And those two examples also happened 1-2.

No, as much as you'd like to escape the Great Tribulation, I'm afraid the reason Jesus described people looking for Him in inner rooms and put in the desert (more opposites) is that many will be mortified that the time of Great Tribulation is upon them with the midpoint abomination and the two new laws we're told never to obey which carry a death sentence to us for doing what Jesus commands.

Endure patiently my friend.
 

keras

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Revelation 6:17 For the great Day of the wrath of Almighty God and the Lamb has come and who can stand?

Just reading and understanding this verse alone, in its location in Revelation: BEFORE the selection of the 144,000, BEFORE the time gap of the Seventh seal, BEFORE the Great Tribulation of the Trumpets and Bowls and BEFORE the Return, described as a Day of great glory; proves it cannot all happen as one Day.
No, as Jesus Himself implied when He quoted Isaiah 61:1-2a, leaving 2b - the Day of vengeance and wrath of God as the next Divine intervention. That this terrible Day hasn't happened as yet, not fulfilled by the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans, is clear by the description in over 100 prophesies of a worldwide devastation by fire.

Marcus says that 30 minutes separates the 6th and 7th Seals. How can this be? The 'about a half hour', starts AFTER the Seventh seal is opened.

Rescue then wrath. Lot and Noah are examples of individuals being told well in advance of God's plan and how they and their immediate family, can escape the specific judgement coming. For the forthcoming judgement/punishment by fire that is coming, we ARE told the Lord will protect His own during this worldwide event. There is nowhere we can go, I sure wouldn't want to be in the space station when a massive CME hits it!
There are many verses promising protection on the Day of wrath: Isaiah 43:2, Psalm 50:3-6, Zeph 2:3, 2 Peter 2:9, Joel 3:16 and many others, incl Psalm 23.
Correct: patient endurance is required.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Rescue / Wrath is separated by about half an hour. There I corrected myself. (A minor mistake on my part making a quick entry on my smartphone.)

The point I wished to make is that these two "separate" Days of the Lord are actually quite close to each other.

But proving Keras doesn't read anything to learn anything, I've already wrote why this instance where the word "wrath" as used in 6:17 does NOT indicate that God's Wrath falls then.

From paper #4

Up until this point on Earth, there are several reactions to the day. On the one hand, while activity may pause, it certainly does not stop. When the day comes and it is recognized as not being a natural day, expect an interruption of the normal flow of life. There are two parts to the reaction. One is to pause then continue. The other is to hide and wait for it to pass. Jesus in speaking about this time of His coming said people would be working, preparing meals and sleeping. On the other hand, in Revelation, John writes the words of the Messiah and says people of all types will be hiding in fear of the coming of the Lord.

The reason for saying this, and the source of a mistake in timing God’s Wrath comes from this passage in Revelation:

Rev 6:15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

How do the wicked know God is coming for them? They were told by the Three Angels who not only complete the Gospel message, but also impart a stern warning to the world who has accepted the Mark of the Beast and worshipped its abominable image. This information can be found in the detailed parallel account of the one ‘seven’ in Revelation chapters 13-17 before the Harvest. The error comes in saying this is where God’s Wrath begins as will be explained.

The adjective ‘every’ used in Revelation 6:15 describing those who are hiding modifies a definite noun two times with slave and free. Generally, this section is interpreted as being inclusive of all since a person would be either one or the other, however, another definition exists that can solve the dichotomy of why some are working and sleeping in Jesus’ example. The word, pa'" meaning each or all, can imply the whole in one sense, or it can be distributive as in whoever, or all possible ―TDNT p 795. In the second case, it can indicate that those who hid themselves were of all classes of individuals.

To the first group, the ones who pause and then continue, and from whom one is taken to receive their inheritance; represent God’s Elect. They are the ones who have waited until their redemption has drawn nigh and have not abandoned their faith. They will be going about their normal course of living, working, preparing meals and sleeping, but not the second group.

This group, who are left to burn in this world, as described in Revelation; are the rulers, rich and powerful of this world foremost has gone into hiding. They have gone to fortified places like what exists outside Washington D.C. in order to save their lives. Rather than looking for their redemption drawing nigh, they are fearful of seeing the Lord. Rather than meet justice at His hand, they wish to be crushed by the impersonal forces and rock of the Earth. They understand what is coming, and John records their cry:

"Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

Now, as a case study in Biblical truth, more than one commentary has made a great deal of the first usage by John in Revelation of wrath here in verse 6:16. Because the word ‘wrath’ occurs here first, and taking the Bible as always being true, they reach the conclusion that this is indeed where God’s Wrath commences. While the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and truth is indeed found within it, however, the question remains: Does the Wrath of God begin at this moment?

No. While the author is known, John, and the audience here being addressed is the world, the ones that are speaking are those who will be judged by God on the Earth. They have not gotten God right up until this time, and they are going to miss out on being saved in the last possible instance in which Jesus does save: the Harvest. The Bible is true, they do say what John quotes, but the speakers in this case are just as mistaken as they are about God. John is recording their error truthfully though.

Where then do these wicked people get the idea that God is coming for them? They know their time is up because from the parallel account of the one ‘seven’ in Revelation 13-16, an Angel of the Lord has proclaimed it! The first Angel says to the whole world in part:

“…because the hour of his judgment has come.” –Rev 14:7

While this is the Day of the Lord, and God’s Wrath is about to come, it is not coming at that precise moment. So the wicked, who do not love God, understand Him, nor believe anything about the prophecy of the end-times are not correct, but they quake in fear because they heard what was about to befall them. They know they are going to be judged by God because they know they don’t believe in Jesus. They are convicted already in their hearts, and so they know the judgment which is coming is for them.

So it matters little if the word John uses is the word for the Wrath of God. God’s Wrath is not what is coming next, but it is still to come. For the Christian though, the words of the prophet apply:

JER 10:2 This is what the LORD says:
"Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the sky,
though the nations are terrified by them.


Furthermore, the time that these people are making their declaration is during the opening of the sixth Seal. The Scroll cannot be opened and the decrees of God cannot be read until all the Seals have been opened. From Kings down to slaves, great and small, they all alike have jumped the gun. Their judgment is coming, but just not yet. In the context of the times, while the Day of the Lord has a duality to it, that Wrath will not immediately next at that time, however, it is coming nevertheless and it will last longer than that day as well.

In the timeline of the Day of the Lord, the first identifiable time marker in Rev 6:12 was the darkening of the sun by a covering up by clouds at noon. This miraculous phenomenon could occur at every locale at noon by a progressive covering, starting perhaps at the center of the earth for God’s focus: Jerusalem. The clamor this enveloping darkness would raise would be on every 24-hour news telecast and eager reporters would chronicle the spread of the clouds and by doing so they would heighten the ensuing panic. Questions will be asked: ‘What does this all mean?’ And at some gut-level, people will be poised for something dreadful to occur. This is the time in which leaders will escape to their apocalypse hiding spot; the President will be bunkered in the underground complex by Camp David in the Catoctin Mountains of Maryland.
 

keras

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Marcus, you still seem to place the 'about a half hour in heaven' between the 6th and 7th Seals. That is wrong and any way it is a time period 'in heaven', NOT earthly time.

Your premise that 'the great Day of the wrath of Almighty God and the Lamb has come...', Rev 6:17, isn't actually that Day at all, is preposterous and only promoted to conform with the false belief of the wrath of God happening in conjunction with the Return.

[SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]2 Thessalonians 1:7-10... and give relief you who are afflicted, to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in blazing fire. There He will punish those who refuse to acknowledge God and will not obey the gospel. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, cut off from the Presence of the Lord when He comes to reveal His glory amongst all believers.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]This is a controversial passage, because depending on how you look at the end times, you can read it as one event- that is the judgement of the nations/wicked peoples and the Lord’s Return, simultaneously or as two separate events, perhaps years apart.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Careful analysis of this Bible passage and parallel scriptures shows that in fact the judgement ‘in blazing fire’ does occur first and His enemies ‘suffer the penalty of eternal destruction’.[/SIZE] Then, cut off until ‘the Lord comes to reveal His glory’.

[SIZE=11pt]Here are Scriptures that describe the glorious second coming of the Lord Jesus, that will come after all that is prophesied for the last days:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Zechariah 14:2-5 I shall gather the nations to make war on Jerusalem; the city will be taken....Then the Lord will go out and fight them....On that Day, His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. Then the Lord will appear, attended by all His holy ones.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Matthew 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign that heralds the Son of Man... they will see Him coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Revelation 19:11-21 I saw heaven wide open and a white horse appeared, its Rider’s name was Faithful and True.....He was robed in a garment dyed in blood....He will rule the nations with a rod of iron and carry out the wrath of God..... against the Beast and the kings of the earth with their armies mustered to do battle..... the rest are killed by the sword which came out of the Rider’s mouth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Jesus returns in power and glory, visible to all when He destroys the armies attacking Jerusalem. This happens at the end of the seven year Tribulation period and is the commencement of His Millennial reign. Note that He appears ‘robed in a garment dyed in blood’. This means that He has carried out a judgement before His Return in glory.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 63:3-4 I have trodden the press alone, I trod the nations in My anger, their blood spattered My garments. I resolved on a Day of vengeance, the Year for redeeming My own had come. [/SIZE]Rev. 14:17-20

[SIZE=11pt]More scriptures on the event called the “Day of vengeance” or “the Day of God’s wrath”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2 Samuel 22:8-16 and Psalm 18:7-15 He parted the heavens and came down. The earth shook and quaked because of His anger. Smoke and devouring fire came from Him. He swooped on the wind, covered by darkness and dense vapour. Thick clouds went before Him, with thunder, hail and glowing coals. He loosed His arrows far and wide and hurled lightning bolts round His enemies.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Habakkuk 3:12 Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Isaiah 66:15-16 See, the Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind, bringing retribution in His[/SIZE] furious anger. The Lord will judge with fire and many will be slain by Him.
[SIZE=11pt]Hebrews 10:27...a terrifying expectation of judgement – a fierce fire that will consume God’s enemies.[/SIZE] [SIZE=11pt]Reference: REB some verses condensed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Although, at the Lord’s Return, there will be a judgement – of the Anti Christ and his armies, this isn’t the same as the worldwide event described above, to happen earlier.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]This terrible, devastating worldwide disaster, will be triggered by an attack by an Islamic confederation on the State of Israel. It will change the world, a One World Govt will be formed, but the Lord’s righteous people will gather and live in all of the Holy Land. [/SIZE]
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Chapter 10 Day of the Lord papers #1 & 2 here.
papers #3 &4 here.
papers #5 & 6 here.
papers #7 & 8 here.
papers #9 & 10 here.
papers #11 & 12 here.

Now onto Chapter 11 -

Resurrection and Rapture

In terms of speaking of the Christian hope for the end of the Church age, the common word used is Rapture. However, that does not totally describe the process indicated in the Bible. Within the rescue or gathering of the Elect, another sequence-of-events can be discerned. This pattern generally fits two analogies Jesus uses for the time when He comes back for those that call on His Name.

When speaking of the Church, and the time to come, two themes drawing from the lives of first century Jews were often used: the harvest, and marriage. As an agricultural society, Israel’s festivals, instituted by God, revolved around its crops. The Church is a type of crop, and its Age is a growing season. The harvest in eschatology refers to that coming time when God will gather up His wheat: those that worship Him. For centuries man understood living off the land, but that was radically changed with the advent of the Industrial Revolution. A new, and heretofore never known, lifestyle has separated people from reliance on crop yield. With modern transportation and refrigeration, fruits and vegetables can be enjoyed in the rich, northern First World of America and Europe year round. Thanksgiving for God’s bounty is little more than a reason for family gathering, football, and the beginning of the annual shopping spree for consumer goods.

Likewise, modern weddings are a pale contrast to the process of betrothal used two millennia ago in an entirely different culture. While there are variations in recording how weddings were performed in Jesus’ day, the parallels between ancient Jewish custom and the interplay between Christ and His Church are astounding. Not only does Jesus call the Church His Bride, but the overall pattern of ancient Jewish weddings is replicated in the sequence-of-events leading up to Jesus’ Ascension which completes only the betrothal phase. The completion of the wedding process has yet to be realized. The supposition here is with Jesus’ Return, He will complete the second half of the wedding ritual. Thus, the wedding process acts as a template for Christ’s Return and a pattern for understanding what will happen to the Church His Bride.

The bulk of this chapter then deals with the sequence of events as they concern the two parts of the main Harvest. While the focus is on the Rapture, Paul spoke mainly of the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ. This refers to those Christians who die, yet in death are spiritually alive. Capitalizing “dead” tries to emphasize that these souls will be made alive. Another tool to differentiate the special status for God’s Saints in death herein refers to capitalizing Living since God is not the God of the dead but of the living (Mt 22:32; Mk 12:27; Lk 20:38). For Paul’s audience, resurrection from the grave represented their ultimate promise.

Resurrection from death was debated as a Jewish doctrine. In Christian theology, some debate ensues as well. With specific verses in hand, some leaders teach that no resurrection is necessary since Paul instructs that the Dead will be with Christ. However, Jesus makes plain mention of the fact for Resurrection of the Dead in addition to Paul. The question then is: Does Paul contradict himself? Not necessarily. In the process of teaching new believers, simplifying the message by removing complications strengthens the essential element being sought: eternal life. How one gets there then becomes secondary. But once the necessity for a resurrection from death for believers becomes apparent, Paul gives the order between Resurrection and Rapture explicitly with the Resurrection occurring first.

The Bible does not give a complete picture of the process of Resurrection and Rapture in any one account. Different parts of the overall process are given as events but their sequence is not presented in any whole. Thus, focusing on a single verse has its downfall like the analogy of the blind men describing an elephant. No single verse captures the whole picture. Thus insisting Jesus cannot touch the earth because one view only sees Him coming on the clouds can naturally result. Likewise, a single view of the Jesus coming on the clouds with Saints allows for differing eschatologies whereby the Millennium is established by Jesus with the Church. However, using a holistic model based on the integration of all relative accounts relating to it allows for an ordering of the various events being presented which includes all the various views into a single continuum. Interestingly enough, this sequence-of-events analysis aligns nicely with the two figurative models for the end-times completing them.
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Harvest

There are two analogies for the gathering of Christ’s Church given in the Bible. First is the Harvest. The other, referred to in so many ways describing the love relationship Jesus has for His Church is the wedding analogy. While both are familiar to Christians, exploring each in its first century context will illuminate some principles involving the complex events which unfold on the Day of the Lord.

Harvesting a crop is a foreign idea to an industrialized society. Truly, the industrial revolution was monumental in setting the present course of modern man in the first world. It makes war on an unprecedented level possible, and has done much to split the family unit apart. Additionally, with the onset of mechanized, compartmentalized life, people have lost touch with farming. Without knowing some aspects of how a harvest was conducted by people in Jesus’ time, the modern Bible student in America remains ignorant of some principles which can be applied to end-time eschatology as it relates the Harvest mentioned in the Bible of God’s Elect.

Agriculture, not industry, has been the staple of the world for centuries. However, the end-times are reserved for the industrialized world. Modern Christians in America and Europe neither know nor appreciate how first century Israel lived. Agriculture was intertwined with life in Israel from its very start. Indeed, the festivals it celebrated all revolved around farming. While Christians know of Passover, they have little idea of what Pentecost was about. As the celebration of first fruits, it marks the beginning of the winter grain harvest.

Pentecost, or the Festival of Firstfruits, also marks the beginning of the Church in Acts chapter 1. The growing season for Israel for the summer crops is matched by the growth of the Church. A remarkable fact for this analogy to a crop begins with the trumpet which sounded the Festival of Firstfruits: the first trumpet. Paul identifies the end of the Church Age with the last trumpet. The last trumpet was the named for the other half of the Adeka ram’s horns blown at Rosh ha-Shanah. Thus the growing season for the Church matches a typical year for Israel.

When a crop was harvested, the procedure was dictated in the Torah:

EX 23:19 "Bring the best of the firstfruits of your soil to the house of the LORD your God."
LEV 19:9 "When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest."
LEV 19:10 "Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God."

This brings a three-fold result to the Harvest:
1. The first fruits were special, and were to the Lord.
2. The main harvest which was to Israel.
3. The remainder which was left behind.

The first part is the first to be taken up on the Day of the Lord: the 144,000. These special young men are the best just as the Levites were able to enjoy the best of Israel’s harvest with their firstfruits.
The second part is the Harvest of souls who are gathered up on the Day of the Lord. This represents the main part of the first Resurrection, but it does not include everyone who will be raised up. The number of the Harvest, though, is a great multitude that John cannot number, and that is a significant fact in the Bible as John was exceeding good at reporting what he saw.

The third part is more mysterious. As the title of a book series, attaching ‘left behind’ to the remainder of the harvest can confuse. While God will leave some behind at the Harvest, they are not lost, but must suffer a martyr’s death. At least two souls constitute this portion of the Harvest, but allowance must be made that they need not be the only ones “left behind” to see what comes upon the world after God gathers His wheat into the barn of Heaven. Indeed, knowing that the corners of the field are left behind helps explain a very cryptic verse on the eve of the Harvest from God’s perspective:

REV 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

Some of the Lord’s people will die after the Harvest. As each Christian will give an account of their self, those who die a martyr’s death after the Harvest - especially having weathered the Great Tribulation - and in the face of the crisis of faith which would be brought on to anyone who is ‘left behind’ to see God’s Wrath begin: will have a riveting story to tell! Two things are required of them: anyone left behind cannot worship the beast, nor take his mark, and two, they must remain faithful, to endure patiently until their death. Remember, one’s outcome in life on earth in the end-times is diametrically opposed to one’s eternal place. Dying in the flesh is not the worst thing which can happen to a soul.

This is not a popular perspective for Christians who want a neat, nice ending. However, from God’s perspective, there is no end; the new Heaven and the new Earth are eternal, unlike this present universe which has limited time for life on Earth. Those who are left behind, at least two in number: will not be forgotten by God; “The Lord knows those who are his” ― 2Ti 2:19. Their place in Heaven is reserved right beneath God’s Altar in His Temple. So when thinking about the Resurrection to come, the pattern set by God for Israel with harvesting a crop, also serves as a template for the Harvest Christians look forward to in the end. Of the three parts, the first has already been covered with the 144,000 being specified by the Bible as Firstfruits. The second part, the main Harvest which captures the most, occurs as well on the Day of the Lord. However, a third element needs to occur before the first Resurrection can be said to be complete.
 

keras

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Your posting of book chapters does have some good points, but is built on mostly false premises and a discussion forum isn't the right place to promote a book.
Perhaps now, we and others can address issues that you seem to prefer to ignore.

1/ When does the 'about a half hour' of Rev 8:1 happen?
2/ Is this time gap earth time or heavenly time?
3/ Is the Day of wrath the Sixth Seal? If not, what is it?
4/ If all the wrath of God happens at the Return, how come Jesus comes in garments splashed with blood? Check Isaiah 63:1-6
5/ Where are the 'vast multitude and the 144,000, Rev. 7 & 14, gathered?
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Well, I find most people make generic, broad condemnations based on their take on things. I also notice they're very short on specifics (Where am I wrong?) but just say, your whole premise is false. What premise? Well, they can't really put their finger on it; usually it's the premise that I'm saying something different than what they say. To answer your silly questions, which have largely been answered already:

1. Right where John says it is.
2. He says half an hour. For an explanation and comparison you'll have to wait for later on in this chapter when I cover it.
3. You're not bothering to read what I write. I already answered this here in the second paper on the sun/moon/star event of that post.
4. That will be answered in coming papers. You presume ALL of God's Wrath happens at once...
5. Already answered - you're not paying much attention. Try here in the first paper of that post.

Now onto some more about the Day of the Lord.
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Coming for His Bride

Another analogy to the Resurrection/Rapture which conforms to a sequence of events analysis is the Israel first-century wedding ritual. Like the festivals and the harvest, the joining of husband and wife has distinct eschatological overtones for Jesus’ return. While there are many different elements, and not every rendition of the steps which were taken two thousand years ago agree, enough parallels between the basic parts of the eventual marriage and Christ’s parousia exist to make a comparison.

A striking feature of the wedding analogy for the end-time Rapture of the Church comes with the emphasis Jesus gives to the subject by terming the Church as His Bride. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that the first century, Jewish wedding ritual can serve as a template for the relationship between Christ and the Church. Again, while the festivals, harvesting commandments and wedding rituals point toward a general pattern, what will be is the reality as Paul stresses in Col 2:17. However, what is interesting about a sequence-of-events analysis is how it conforms to all three.

Jewish Wedding........................................................Jesus - Church
...........................................Past events.............................................

1. Groom and Father meet to discuss terms..........Isaiah 49:6; Rev 13:8
...............................................................................- before Christ’s first Advent
...............................................................................- Jesus as the ransom price

2. Marriage proposal made to the Bride.................Offer of Salvation by Christ
...............................................................................- Passover Meal with Disciples
...............................................................................- Christ’s declaration of the bread and wine

3. Acceptance by the Bride.....................................“Receiving” Christ by Christians
.................................................................................- Passover Meal with Disciples
.................................................................................- Disciples sharing in both

4. Groom gives a gift to the Bride............................Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
(Jesus sets a condition on this,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,- Pentecost for the Disciples
that first He must depart)

5. Groom departs....................................................Ascension of Jesus to Heaven
(Out of order with Pentecost
- exception to perfect correlation
)

6. Bride retains contract, remains faithful................Patient endurance on the part of the Church
- ritual cleansing, the Mikveh...................................- baptism; process of forgiveness

7. Groom builds a room onto his father’s house......John 14:2
.................................................................................- Preparing a place for us

.....................................................Future events.......................................................................

8. Groom returns at night, with trumpets,.................Sun/moon/star event and the sign of the Son of Man
lights and friends.......................................................on the Day of the Lord

9. Bride dresses, meets Groom................................Resurrection and Rapture:
outside her father’s house........................................- Gathering on the clouds

10. Return to Groom’s father’s house......................Delivers the Great Multitude to Heaven
................................................................................(the “wheat” to the “barn”)

11. Wedding Ceremony/Festival..............................Completion of the first Resurrection
.................................................................................- Cup of Anticipation from Passover Meal
.................................................................................- 30 day period (?)

12. Unveiling the Bride.............................................RO 14:12; Heb 4:13, giving an account; given crowns:
.................................................................................Rev 11:18b - and for rewarding your servants the prophets and
.................................................................................your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great--
.................................................................................- 45 day period (?)

The comparison of the groom returning at night, with fanfare, should conform with the depiction of the Day of the Lord to the reader. All the elements of a typical Jewish first century procession are in place with Jesus. All Jesus’ hints gives for His Return depict a nighttime arrival. The inherent contrast of darkening the sky at noon only to have His Light pierce the darkness of night puts God’s thumbprint signature on this Day; it is miraculous. His Glory is trumpeted by Angels, and Jesus calls out the dead in Christ. The glory of God’s coming with shooting stars showering the sky as it scrolls back in a dimensional rift surpasses any noisy party with its shouts of cheer and way lit by torches. Accompanying Jesus will be Angels, and as will be shown, those who have already been resurrected from beyond the grave: the Saints.

The gathering on the clouds not only removes the remaining Elect from the Earth, but it matches the intermediary meeting place so common in ancient times. A delegation to a town would be met outside and then would be escorted into the town for negotiations. Between Heaven and Earth, the sky represents a middle place in the ancient world before the Age of Flight. It is from there, in new immortal and imperishable bodies that Christ escorts the Elect into the third Heaven of God the Father’s presence.
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A Six Foot Head Start

If there is one trait of human nature which hasn’t changed across the millennia it’s that people want to see what’s going to happen. Likewise, with the end-times, once the one ‘seven’ begins, the impetus will be to “make it” to the end. However, not only will that not be possible with most of God’s Elect, the true Church of believers in Christ Jesus, it is not even necessary in order to be with Jesus when He comes on the clouds. Care for the Christian must be taken to keep the “eye on the prize:” life eternal, rather than merely seeking to live to see the Day of Christ arrive. Being alive to witness that Day is a gift which will be enjoyed by only a few. Not everyone will die before the Day of the Lord, but most will have died by the time that comes. So, being among the Elect is not predicated upon just being alive because if one seeks to prolong their life, they may lose it eternally.

The one consolation for Christians who have died before the one ‘seven’ even begins and for many who will die before the Day of the Lord is that they will get a “six-foot head start” on those who are still alive and are left to meet Jesus on the clouds. While not literal in the sense of leaping out of their grave, this head start derives from the order in which the Elect are brought forth to be with Jesus in the air. The vast majority of the Elect who will be gathered will be from Paradise, a realm of Heaven: the “first” Heaven to layer them. This is because of the vast number of past Christians who lived and died over the past two thousand years perhaps surpasses those in the Church presently.

Martyred Saints are not part of this consolation. Being killed before (or left behind in the Harvest) suffering a martyr’s death means a tradeoff: dying in such a terrible way results in a greater reward albeit delayed. While the Elect will suffer greatly in the Great Tribulation so as to be very few in number, those who die “because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained,” (Rev 6:9) are included in the fifth Seal. This special holding place is reserved for those who pay the ultimate price with their lives. In Revelation 20:4, an additional qualification includes their beheading. Therefore, two elements are part of the martyred Saints: testimony and execution. Certainly, of the two laws which go into effect at the midpoint, the first would allow for inclusion into this set of people: the Daniel test of worship before the image(s) of the beast.

However, with the second law involving the Mark of the beast, neither element of testimony nor execution need be present. If one expires of natural causes brought on by exposure to the elements, malnutrition, or simple dehydration –as bad a way to die as those are– anyone who dies in such a manner, keeping their faith unto the bitter end, will be rewarded by getting a six foot head start on those few who are still alive and are left to see Jesus coming on the clouds. This would be because in dying without the aspects of testimony and execution, and having kept their faith, they would be part of the Elect in Paradise, the first Heaven. This portion of the Elect, which may indeed include Saints who lived before Christ’s first Advent as well, are resurrected from the dead before those who are still alive are lifted up to the clouds.

1TH 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Here, Paul gives a sequence of events which happen when the Lord returns. The order does not have to be complete; only that these events happen in this sequence. The specific and unique event which starts the sequence is when Jesus comes down from Heaven. If Paul doesn’t make mention of anything else in this single view, it doesn’t mean nothing else is done. Filling in intervening events can be done by establishing a specific and unique event such as Christ’s parousia as Paul begins, and combining this passage with other passages which order events around the same specific and unique event.

From a sequence of events perspective, after Christ returns the order of between the Resurrection of the Living from the dead and the Rapture of those who are still alive and are left is given. This order actually does not go against the “order” Jesus gives in the Olivet Discourse. There, Jesus mentions the four winds and then the ends of heaven. This can be taken as coming from all over the earth's compass points, and then the realm of heaven where the Dead in Christ rest in peace. However, the "ends of heaven" is just another euphemism for everything under the sky. So here Paul is not contradicting Christ or setting straight an error by the Lord. Rather, Jesus is only mentioning the gathering of the Elect who are still alive and are left upon the earth as Paul says. The duplication of description in Matthew is for emphasis: the Rapture is from all over the whole earth.

Picking up the sequence of events which transpires on the Day of the Lord, the last event Jesus participated in was the calling of the Firstfruits on the Mount of Olives, newly split and called Mount Zion. To enter this next phase, resurrecting the dead, Jesus would have to translate again to the spiritual plane as He did when He died on the Cross and went to Paradise. The dead in Christ are not just in their graves, just as Jesus was not in the tomb when He descended into death although that was where His body lay.

Having a resurrection of the Dead from the Heavenly realm of Paradise goes against a popular notion that when people die that they go to Jesus directly in Heaven. However, if the dead are already in Heaven, they have no need to be escorted there. Thus it makes no sense for Jesus to say as He does in John 14:2 that He is going to return to take the Disciples to where He is going if Christians go there automatically. If after dying Christians were to proceed immediately to being with Jesus in Heaven is the rule as Paul infers in Philippians 1:23, then Jesus’ Words lose their meaning. However again, including a resurrection from death for Christians who have passed away then allows them eventually to be with Christ. Thus, Paul is not making a detailed eschatological account in Philippians of the process of being with Christ, just juxtaposing the present work with the future promise, in a simple message stripped of eschatological trappings which so confused the Thessalonians earlier in his ministry.

Next, Jesus would then translate back from the spiritual realm of where the Dead in Christ’s souls have been resting to “pick up” the Elect. This meeting between Heavenly and earthly brings up an interesting fact not used in modern conflicts. Historically, with a meeting between opposing camps, the one doing the greeting goes out to meet the visitor and escorts them back in. In the marriage ceremony, the groom goes more than halfway to the Bride, and then she comes out to meet him and they return to his father’s house. Certainly, Jesus, fulfilling His promise to take the believers to Heaven, meets the Elect halfway in the clouds and then is able to escort them back into Heaven. This would align perfectly with the gathering of the wheat being “led together” into the barn before the tares which have been collected together - are to be burned.
 

keras

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False premise 101 - Jesus takes the believers back to heaven when He Returns.
Please quote the scripture that says this.

Also with the Seventh Seal, you conveniently gloss over how your premise places that time gap BEFORE that Seal is opened.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Little man:
2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.

Paul gets what Jesus said right.

Mt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Verse 29 marks this time as being coincidental with the sixth Seal. Of the "sign of the Son of Man":

Rev 1:7 Behold, HE is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Rev 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, " Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

By a multitude of witnesses, your premise is disproved! It is not that my premise is false, but that it disagrees with yours, and I'm only too glad to disagree with you.

Now onto more about the Day of the Lord.
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…with all his saints ― 1st Th. 3:13

With the Resurrection of the Dead established, how is it accomplished? Would a survivor of the Great Tribulation in a cemetery witness graves opening up at this time during the Day of the Lord as happened when Jesus was crucified? Would the Dead in Christ literally get a six-foot head start on our witness? The Bible does not describe any such occurrence in conjunction with the end-times.

Indeed, the idea that God needs a physical body to resurrect the soul seems negated by Paul who, in 1st Corinthians 15, describes the body as being sowed, but the harvest being of a different type than the seed which is planted. Looking at the physical logistics of raising a body from the grave works for those buried in the last few decades, but go a century or more back from today, and one has to ask: Where is the body? If the Dead were to go out of their graves as they did in Mt 27:52-53, God would have to reconstitute their bodies from the soil, grass and trees into which their elements have devolved.

The question then becomes, what is raised of a person? Naturally, one would think of the person’s soul. In the Bible, it is their spiritual body as Paul writes in 1Co 15:44. This same kind of spiritual body can be recognized in the story Jesus tells of Lazarus the beggar who is recognized in Paradise by the rich man from Hades across the abyss.

Jesus taught the Resurrection of the Dead to the Sadducees from Exodus 3:6 in Matthew 22:32. Jesus also is the only source for information past the grave with Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31. In John 5:24-25, one of four passages which indicate two Resurrections, Jesus says this:

JN 5:24 "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

These statements have a dual nature. One, in the first sense of being saved, a person enters into God’s Kingdom when he believes in Jesus. This first sense is repeated in the follow-on statement with: “and has now come.” The other, indicated by the phrase, “a time is coming,” refers to a future. Like the Aorist tense, Jesus expressed this as a certainty, an occurrence without regard of the time it takes to accomplish it.

Furthermore, this first Resurrection is selective. In John 5:28-29, the call is universal. Jesus in explaining this says 'not to be amazed'. While not everyone accepts that dead souls will be resurrected, Jesus surpasses that and presents two Resurrections. A number of eschatologies fail to account for both. The first Resurrection is only for the "Living", that is, those who are Dead in Christ. The second is inclusive and Jesus even splits their ultimate destiny between life and damnation.

Having last left Jesus on the Mount of Olives where He first touches down, initiating a second earthquake on the Day of the Lord which makes a way for those in Jerusalem to escape, and musters His Army calling in a likewise fashion from faraway lands and the ends of Heaven, i.e., from all over the whole earth - now Jesus calls the Dead in Him forth. Starting with a concept of a layers to Heaven, the first being Paradise, a place where beings with a spiritual body rest, their Resurrection; Jesus’ calling to them who hear leads to a spiritual awakening beyond this plane of existence. Jesus, who had mobility between Paradise and where the spirits from the days of Noah were imprisoned in death, and who had mobility between Heaven and Earth after His Resurrection; can easily traverse the divide and call the Living out of Paradise.

Once the Dead in Christ are raised with “the splendor of the heavenly bodies” then all that is required is for Jesus to be on the clouds. Indeed, leading the Dead in Christ, truly a Great Multitude in and of itself, could be done directly from that spiritual dimension to the clouds the Son of Man arrives upon in order to reap the earth, gathering the Elect from all over the whole earth, just as the firstfruits were summoned to Mount Zion.

Imagine then the splendor of Jesus, now on the clouds with a great host of Saints, reaping the four corners Earth. A minor criticism exists over an apparent dichotomy: Will Jesus gather the Elect, or Angels? Looking at the gathering as being done by Jesus at first, and in turn, by Angels is the same as when God allows Jesus to sit in His Throne, and then Jesus empowers those who overcome from the Church of Laodicea to sit with Him on His Throne as well. So there is no disparity between various images portrayed in the Bible as to who does the Gathering between Matthew 24:31 and Revelation 14:16. In this task, Jesus begins the process and then He is joined by Angels who complete it. God grants His authority to His servants to act on His behalf. Even the Two Witnesses are empowered to call out God's Wrath under God's Will.

Now while Jesus could Harvest the Earth in one fell swoop, what is suggested herein is that even the reaping is a process. The sky scrolling back the as Jesus comes again to touch down on the Mount Olives would continue. As it was suggested that clouds enveloped the Earth from east to west as the Earth rotated so that every land experienced the darkening of the sun at their brightest time of day: noon, the scrolling of the sky to reveal the Son of Man coming on the clouds is suggested here to be able to proceed in the same manner. In such a fashion, at each land’s nighttime, would then experience a shower of meteorites in a celestial fireworks show as they saw the sky scroll back to reveal the radiance of Heaven which is Jesus.

Indeed, a dimensional rift could explain how the night sky scrolls. It would reveal the radiance of Heaven as God folds “space” back to reveal what has been present but entirely unseen by Man. Furthermore, while this idea of a dimensional rift explains how light can pierce the darkness; Jesus gives some credence to the idea that it also proceeds from east to west in giving a warning to the Elect not to seek Him in inner rooms or out in the desert at the critical time of the Great Tribulation when so many nominal Christians fall away.

Mt 24:27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

This concept of a rolling scroll across the globe also preserves the words of the prophet Zechariah for every time zone:

14:7 It will be a unique day, without daytime or nighttime--a day known to the LORD. When evening comes, there will be light.

It is this spectacle that Jesus addresses in Luke:

Lk 21:27 "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

The description Jesus gives is from an observer-true point-of-view. Jesus talking to His Disciples puts His second coming as if they are seeing it. Those who are still alive and are left (1Th 4:15) will witness just such a sight.
Paul adds to this in personally addressing the Thessalonians in verse 13:

1TH 3:11 Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus clear the way for us to come to you. 12 May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you. 13 May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.

Paul is addressing the Thessalonians as if they were standing as they were then - at the end witnessing Jesus coming on the clouds. 1Th 3:13 is an observer-true point of view. Paul addresses them as if they are about to be gathered up. In this scene just prior to being translated to new immortal, imperishable bodies, they will see Jesus coming, as is stated as a prophetic fact, with His holy ones.

The "holy ones" is revealed as an added element to Jesus' parousia. Jesus arrives with “Saints.” The NIV translates hagios as “holy ones.” The word ‘ones’ is added in translation. Actually, the underlying Greek just says hagios which is normally translated as holy. As discussed in Chapter 1, Definitions and Systematic Theology, the King James Version makes the determination for these “holies” to be Saints when the word “holy” is applied to people rather than God. Although Jesus does gather the Elect with Angels, these are not referenced here like they are explicitly in Mk 8:38.

Αγιων reflects the masculine or neuter, plural, genitive lexical from hagios, or “holy.” As such it could reflect either Angels or people. Naturally, if Paul was indicating the Church the feminine form would be expected, but hagios as an adjective does not have a feminine plural form in the genitive case which acts to suggest possession. Thus the “holies” Jesus comes with are in His possession: hence Saints, or holy ones.

From Geoffrey Bromiley’s Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (pg 16/17), hagios describes:
1. The Holiness of God
2. Jesus Christ
3. The Holy Spirit
4. The Holiness of the ekklesia
5. The Holy Life of Christians
6. The Ecclesia triumphans.

The last entry Geoffrey refers to Mark 8:38 and 1Th 3:13. However, in Mark, hagios modifies angel, which does occur in the original writing. Geoffrey adds that in First Thessalonians that the use of hagios could apply to departed Saints.

In 2nd Thessalonians 1:10, Paul again refers to a hagiois in the Inflected Greek, but this is in the masculine, plural, dative case. The trouble with applying it to the Church is that there is a perfectly good feminine form if one were to suppose Paul is being consistent with the Gospel authors where they have Jesus referring to the Church in the feminine form. However, if Paul is addressing the men of Thessalonica primarily, then the masculine form makes sense.

The NIV translates 2Th 1:10 as holy people, and the King James has it has Saints again. The NASB agrees with the King James in both instances in Thessalonians. The normal interpretation here is that Paul differs from Mark and he is describing an array of people with Jesus coming on the cloud. This is supported in 2nd Thessalonians because it is in the accomplishment of rescuing God’s Elect that Jesus is glorified.

Having established a reference for hagios in Thessalonians as describing people instead of Angels; the point of 1st Thessalonians 3:13 then is that Paul is giving a view of Jesus coming after the Saints have been resurrected from Paradise. This is an observer-true point-of-view. Such a view to people with a reference of standing alive on the face of the earth naturally follows when combined with his instructions to the Corinthians that the Dead in Christ rise first. Having already raised the Dead from Paradise which has no Earthly locale, Jesus then proceeds around the Earth with them meeting with Him in the air on the clouds to gather those who are still alive and are left upon the Earth.

1Th 3:13 is an observer-true point-of-view of the coming of Christ. This view occurs between the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ which has already occurred, and the imminent Rapture of those still alive and left upon the Earth. Since the passage is addressed to believers standing on the Earth, it is much like Luke 21:28 and it describes as a multiple account, the same event. This single view of a portion of the Day of the Lord reinforces the lesson Paul gives in the next chapter and later imparts to the Corinthians that the Dead in Christ rise first, then those who are left will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air.

Two negative arguments will finish this section. First concerning a Pre-Tribulation eschatology, Paul is not describing the world’s view where Jesus passes them by with the Saints He rescues in the Rapture. The reason for this is the view is directed to believers as one they would have in being alive at that moment standing as they were when Paul wrote to them. While the whole world will see Jesus, according to Jesus and Paul, people on the Earth will see Him too who do not die, are alive, and will be gathered up. Thus when the Dead in Christ are raised first, they will already be with Christ to those who are still alive and are left when they see Jesus coming.

The second negative argument concerns Post-Tribulation eschatology. In this school of thought, 1st Thessalonians 3:13 reflects Jesus returning with the whole Church to either thoroughly crush the forces of the anti-Christ, or to establish His Millennium reign. First of all, this image of Jesus coming on the clouds agrees with Paul’s eschatology about the Day of Christ which is synonymous with the Day of the Lord. Thus 1Th 3:13 describes the Day of the Lord as well, and it is that Day that no one knows when it will arrive. Saying it arrives on the last day of the one ‘seven’ is negated by the unknowable nature of this Day.

Another argument against the idea that this view is of the whole Church returning centers on this basic flaw: Paul is addressing the same Thessalonians who are awaiting the Day of the Lord. Notice it is they who are said to be able to see the Lord coming with the Holy Ones. So the Thessalonians being on Earth cannot possibly have Christ come to them with themselves already or they would be in two places at once. An observer-true viewpoint necessitates that they could not see themselves coming from their vantage point.

Concerning the two possible reasons Jesus returns with the Elect in Post-Tribulation eschatology; first with the battle at Armageddon, the principle in the Bible is that God can defeat many with few. This was the example of Gideon. If Jesus needs the whole Church to take on the anti-Christ, He might well out-number the forces of evil after they have been whittled down by the Desolations God has decreed during the latter half of the one ‘seven.’ Furthermore, on the eve of the battle of Armageddon at the end of the one ‘seven’ a great multitude of voices is heard cheering Him and His Army on. As the 144,000 never leave the Lamb’s side, they must on condition of Revelation 14:4 be a part of that Army. The voices then would belong to the Church, Jesus’ Bride. Nowhere in the wedding analogy would a thoughtful Groom take his new Bride out to war, especially when He has a core of ostensibly young men to fit the bill. The power of Jesus is that with just 144,000 He can defeat hundreds of millions.

The latter argument is against a Post-Tribulation view saying the Church returns to reign with Christ on the Earth. While Christ will be on the Earth during the Millennium, He would certainly retain the mobility He has had between Heaven and Earth beforehand. In that respect, there are two Thrones in the Millennium, one in Heaven and a replica on Earth. So His Throne does not dictate a totally earth-bound existence. Secondly, the Saints are to be transformed into a Priestly class in Revelation 20:6 and reign with Him. As there are to be two Thrones, the question is which location: Heaven or Earth? Those who overcome from the Church of Laodicea sit with Jesus on His Father’s Throne. That is definitely in Heaven and would remain so during Christ’s millennial reign on Earth.
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Rapture

This word conjures up more controversy and timing it has split eschatology in many varied components. Each seeks to develop a theology around its placement of the Rapture; others work around it and don’t even include it. This portion of this chapter explores various definitions about the word, who is to be included in it, and what kind of transformation the Rapture could entail. However, more importantly, this part of the chapter establishes a coherent sequence of events from the Bible which then determines the Rapture rather than placing the Rapture based on a premise of theology. Within a sequence of events analysis, one Biblical principle remains: the Rapture comes before God’s Wrath falls. This is buttressed by examples Jesus gives surrounding the Rapture as well.

The Rapture is part of the first Resurrection. The first Resurrection, being wholly separate from the second (see Appendix C), has various parts. The Rapture is not the whole of the first Resurrection, nor indeed does it make up the bulk of those gathered on the Day of the Lord. However, as a seminal event, nothing is looked forward to so earnestly by Christians as their gathering to Jesus on the clouds.

The word ‘rapture’ comes from the Latin word rapio. It is just the Latin translation of the Greek verb harpazo which Paul uses in 2CO 12:2, 4 and 1TH 4:17. Idiosyncrasies of translation confuse a search of the term Rapture in the English and from the underlying Greek. It is only when an intervening step of translating the Greek into Latin and then into English can it be understood from where this word came into the English lexicon.

The same kind of duality exists with the Hebrew word Yeshua, which means ‘God Saves.’ Going straight from the Hebrew into English, the word is transliterated as Joshua. However when going from Hebrew into Greek, it is transliterated as Iesous. Only when the Greek is transliterated into English does the name Jesus appear. It is important for the reader using English to understand that the names Joshua and Jesus are identical in their original Biblical language whether it is Hebrew or Greek no matter how it is presented in an English version of the Bible.

The concept of the Rapture is contained within the Bible. While it can be traced to a single verb, the action of the Rapture is delineated by many different words. So while the word is not found in itself in the Bible, like the concept of the Trinity, it can easily be discerned. Here are references for all the various terms the Bible uses in the New Testament for this action, and the general sense of the Greek verbs used for each reference.

• MT 24:31 to come upon, come after
• MT 24:40 to take over, to receive, to inherit
• MK 13:27 to come upon, come after
• MK 16:19 to carry up
• LK 9:51 a taking up: ascension
• LK 17:34-35 to take over, to receive, to inherit
• LK 24:51 to take up, raise
• JN 14:3 to take over, to receive, to inherit
• AC 1:9-11 to lift up
• 1CO 15:51-54 to change
• 2CO 4:14 to waken, to raise up
• 2CO 12:2-4 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away
• 1TH 4:16
• 1Th 4:17 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away
• 2TI 2:18 (resurrection) a standing up, a raising up, rising
• 1TI 3:16 to take up, raise
• HEB 11:5 to transfer, change
• REV 12:5 to seize, to catch up, to snatch away

The words the authors use to describe the Rapture indicate various aspects of the action which will occur.

Some word definition is in order. In order to distinguish between those who are resurrected and those who are taken up, some distinction is needed to convey which group is being referenced. As all Saints are “living” as in being alive in the eternal sense, the use of “Living” will designate this group. This comes from Mt 22:32.

“‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

The Rapture is only for living Christians, that is, those who are physically and bodily alive on the earth when Christ comes. This stands in contrast to a play on words as the first resurrection is also termed to be only for the Living, as in being spiritually alive. Do not confuse the Rapture as being the same as the First Resurrection; it is part of it, but not all of it.

At the time of the Day of the Lord’s gathering, the “dead in Christ” are first resurrected and then those who are still (physically) alive (1Co 15:51) and are left (1Th 4:17) after the Great Tribulation (Mt 24:22/31) are caught up, or gathered, or taken. Believing Christians will be the only ones qualified to be ‘taken up’ to ‘receive their inheritance’ (both usages come from the same word in the Greek). At this point, it matters little if these “Christians” are mainstream Christians of today, newly converted Christians from the Gospel message of the three Angels, or Messianic Jews; the key factor and only qualification for being lifted up is their belief in Jesus.

An Old Testament reference which reflects these New Testament references can be found in Isiah 26:

Isa 26:19 But your dead will live, LORD; their bodies will rise— let those who dwell in the dust wake up and shout for joy— your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. 20 Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. 21 See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. The earth will disclose the blood shed on it; the earth will conceal its slain no longer.

However, there are some differences here in this passage, which, is addressed to natural borne Israel and not the Church.

First, there is no Rapture; only a resurrection from the dead. This allows for the possibility for believing Jews who died before Jesus’ first Advent to be included in the first Resurrection on the Day of the Lord. Second, the instruction given mimics the action in the Songs of Solomon (covered in chapter 13) whereby the non-Messianic Jews living at the time of Jesus’ parousia “miss” their chance for salvation. Third, in the same vein as the lesson of Noah and Lot, God’s Wrath follows the Resurrection of the Dead in Christ – which would include everyone who had called on the Lord or believed that He would save them from their sin.

The Rapture for the Church describes the process which happens to those who are alive when Christ comes. Those Christians who have passed on are resurrected from the dead. Those who are resurrected from the grave may include more than just followers of Christ since His first Advent because some people before the time of Christ looked forward to His coming and believed in Him as Job did. However, concerning those who are alive since Christ’s first Advent, the only people who believe in Him are Christian by definition. Not all Christians in name only qualify, but in the sense of believing, only Christians qualify to be saved in the Rapture.

The Resurrection from the dead is separate from the Rapture. While the Rapture is only for the living believer, the Resurrection from the grave is selective as well; it is only for the “Living” as newly defined here. In this aspect, both those who are alive and believe in Christ, and the Living from those called out from beyond the grave; are selected by God, ergo: Elect.

There is a double entendre in John 5:25 which has both a near and a far aspect.

Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

Here Jesus has two times, one which is coming and another which has come. The second verb tense was satisfied with His Gospel message in that spiritually “Dead” people believed and thus became spiritually “Alive.” However, on the Day of the Lord, which is still to come, and included in Jesus’ statement of fact; among the dead in the grave, not all will be selected to hear His Trumpet call to life. This “selection” based on being spiritually alive again reflects whether or not there is a basis in faith in God to save the person in that soul.

This separation between Resurrection and Rapture of the Living depends on whether they have passed on in a normal sense by dying from normal causes or are alive at the time of Christ’s coming. If they have died then the Living will be resurrected from the dead in a selective calling. This is from Paradise, the first Heaven. (Those who died a martyr’s death will have their own special resting place as revealed with the fifth Seal.) If the Living are still alive and are left as Paul describes them, then they will be part of the Rapture. Saints who have died (without being martyred) will be resurrected from the dead. Saints who are still alive will be in the Rapture.

An aspect of the Rapture then has to do with the transformation of the soul from a body of flesh and blood to one that is imperishable and immortal. This change or exchange (the Greek word can convey either sense equally) happens in an instant. However it is put into effect, and God rarely if ever describes how He works, it does so without causing the person to experience death! This is evidenced with Paul’s words:

1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Sleeping is a euphemism for death. Since not all will die, then the Rapture does not cause death. For the few who are able to survive the terrible ordeal, pain, and suffering explicit with the Great Tribulation, this instant transformation from a mortal to an immortal body will be their reward. However, only those who remain faithful until the very minute of Christ’s return have this ultimate joy so as to be able to lift up their head and know their redemption draws near.

The resurrection of the Living from Paradise and the Rapture of the Elect from the Earth happen on the Day of the Lord. These two parts then constitute the Great Multitude seen by John in Heaven. This glorious dual event, gathering and delivery, happens after the specific and unique sign, the Sun/moon/star sign, is given by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse as happens as with the opening of the sixth Seal. Between the two Living groups, the dead in Christ make up the bulk of all those gathered up who become the Great Multitude John sees delivered into the “barn” of the third Heaven of God’s presence.

However, the Great Multitude does not include all the Living who will live in Heaven during the Millennium. While it is the main and majority portion of the Harvest, it is not the entire crop which has been planted in the field. In addition to the Great Multitude, the first who are apart from them are the Firstfruits of the Harvest: the 144,000. The second group is those who are martyred. God makes these distinctions between Living souls, and special provisions are made for them. These two smaller groups are separate from the Great Multitude. While the 144,000 and the martyred Saints may receive additional crowns, all receive the same basic reward: life eternal. It matters not which group any individual Christian ends up in; only that they remain faithful and endure patiently during their life until their end, whatever that may be.

So far, this paper has defined the word rapture, shown the composition of the groups, and described the aspect of transformation as not dying. Next is to show where the Rapture fits in sequence on the Day of the Lord.

The first instance listed in the Bible by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse is perhaps the best example of where this event is ordered in the sequence. This occurs in order in Matthew chapter 24 with verses 15 to 31, and correspondingly with Mark chapter 13 verses 14 to 27. (Mark’s account does not include the statement about the vultures.) The Olivet Discourse has already been shown to be using parallel construction and it answers the original question the Disciples pose concerning the end of the age. Jesus first gives an overall sequence of events which lead up to the end in verse 14 and 13 respectively, then going back to the middle of the one ‘seven,’ He gives a parallel account to the first which describes in detail what will happen at the very last portion. This starts at the midpoint of the one seven with the Abomination(s). Diagramming the latter part out follows with dual verse references to the respective chapters in Matthew and Mark:

• (v. 15/14) Midpoint Abomination(s)
• (v. 21/19) Great Tribulation
• (v. 29/24-25) Sun/moon/star event
• (v. 30/26) Sign of Jesus in the sky
• (v. 31/27) Gathering the Elect from the Earth

The Rapture word used here is episunago: to gather together. This is akin to the parable of the wheat and tares where the wheat is gathered, sunago, and indeed is built up in the Greek from that word. The theme of harvest is evident within Jesus’ Olivet Discourse which best defines the Rapture in the sequence of events. Regarding that time, Jesus elaborates:

MT 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Here, interesting enough, is the second listing of a Rapture verb. This time Matthew uses paralambano to describe Jesus’ words. An interesting word, it is rendered here as simply “taken,” it means to take over, to receive, to inherit. It is used in the Greek world to describe how instruction is received from a teacher. Also in context of the Greek world it would mean to inherit secrets, especially by oral means. The ‘taking over’ refers then to a position of idea, rather than a physical carriage from place to place.

In the New Testament, paralambano is used chiefly when one “receives” Christ in 1Co 11:23; Gal 1:12; 1Th 2:13 and 1Th 4:1. In an eschatological sense, Jesus uses this same word in John 14:3 when He will take us to where He is going. So when this word is used here for taking one and leaving the other, it is the one who is taken who is saved. In Daniel 12, which is the first instance in the Bible to show two resurrections, Daniel is told in the last verse to wait rest until he receives his allotted inheritance. paralambano carries just such a meaning here too so that all three definitions of it are included in the action which the authors describe from Jesus’ words.

A Synoptic Gospel account which gives the same kinds of details of one being taken and another one left begins with Jesus giving two examples of rescue/wrath in sequence. The example of Noah and Lot indicate that each was taken out of harms’ way in one fashion or another:

LK 17:26 "Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
LK 17:28 "It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

With the example of Noah, especially if one looks only at Matthew’s account, some confusion can exist which one is saved. Some people will argue that only Noah was left, so that it is the ones who are left who are saved as Jesus comes to establish His Millennium Kingdom since all the others were washed away in the flood. Again, this goes against the meaning of “taken” as to be able to receive an inheritance. In addition, it confuses how Noah was led to safety:

GE 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month--on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.
GE 7:13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

It is on the same day that the rain fell on the earth that Noah enters the Ark. Thus, God has through prior instruction to Noah, prepared a place for him and his family to go which was safe. In a very real sense, Noah “rose above” the earth, because the ark floated. Those who were left behind drowned and eventually sank back to the earth now covered with water. Thus being “taken,” (into the ark) is the better option than to be left behind to suffer the flood. The fire which will burn the tares in the field is in lieu of water since God promised not to replicate this desolation again.

In Luke, with the additional example of Lot, the distinction is clearer, but also the parallel of rescue/wrath becomes clear. Here Lot and his family are taken out of the city and those who are left behind perish. Again it happens on the same day as with the previous example of Noah. Both examples imply a condition where rescue/wrath can occur on a single day, such as the long-day of the Day of the Lord.

The last Synoptic Gospel of Luke does not exhibit a complete presentation of the Olivet Discourse. In one respect this can be excused as Luke, writing to the Greeks, is also writing after the fact. So in Luke, the Olivet Discourse found in Matthew and Mark is split up into two sections, the main part in chapter 21 with the follow on presented earlier in chapter 17. The variations between the Gospels do assist in forming an interpretation about the gathering in Matthew and Mark which is definitely tied in sequence to being after the midpoint of the one ‘seven.’

LK 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

LK 21:25 "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Here the sequence neglects the Abomination, but as discussed previously, there is a strong parallel between Daniel 11:45 and Luke 21:20. Furthermore, before the anti-Christ can be in the Temple, he first has to arrive. The sequence aligns nicely overall with the previous two Synoptic Gospels and adds one detail: (Parentheses represent Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21.)

• (v. --/--/20) Armies surround Jerusalem
• (v. 15/14/--) Midpoint Abomination(s)
• (v. 21/19/23) Great Tribulation
• (v. 29/24-25/25) Sun/moon/star event
• (v. 30/26/27) Sign of Jesus in the sky
• (v. 31/27/28) Gathering the Elect from the Earth

The first part did aid the first century Christians escape the siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, but the second part was not fulfilled in the first century. Indeed, that time was not the most distressful as portrayed in Daniel 12:1; Matthew 24:21 and Mark 13:19. Distress during siege warfare was always stressful, and this did not differ from hundreds of others in scope, intensity, or duration. The Great Distress will be worse than all those due mainly to the two onerous laws put into effect at the midpoint as revealed in Revelation 13.

Some schools of eschatology reject the gathering of the Elect in Matthew and Mark as being the Church, however, the picture which emerges when Luke 21 is compared to them indicates Jesus is talking to the Disciples and addressing them as the Church. Indeed, the picture of lifting up your head matches nicely with the image Paul presents to the Thessalonians looking up to see Jesus coming on the clouds:

1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Indeed the reason Paul addresses the Thessalonians with the observer-true point of view with the qualification that they are “still alive and are left” is that these people who will see Jesus coming have survived the Great Tribulation. As the Elect, which is how the Church is described in the New Testament, they are the survivors Jesus speaks of in the Olivet Discourse between Matthew 24:22 and Mark 13:20. The picture of Christ coming on the clouds is the same in all instances. This then represents the picture the Church will see of Jesus coming for them in the Rapture.

From a sequence of events viewpoint, Thessalonians agrees with the Olivet Discourse, and in addition, another account works to view this event from a slightly different vantage point. Writing from Heaven, John records a sequence of events in Revelation chapters 13 through 16. This parallel account within Revelation aptly convey a timeline of the one ‘seven.’

• In chapter 13, one half of the one ‘seven’ comes first, with authority given to the beast for forty-two months.
• Then comes the Abomination revealed as the talking image of the anti-Christ.
• Then two laws are put forth which make the Great Tribulation so terrible for the Elect.
• In chapter 14, Jesus is revealed with the 144,000 upon Mt Zion
• The three Angels proceed with the Gospel message and more.
• Then Jesus arrives on the clouds for the Harvest.

Interestingly enough, the next thing to follow the Harvest in Revelation 14 is an Angel coming out of God’s Temple in Heaven with a sickle, but this reaping is cast into the winepress of God’s Wrath. The distinction between Jesus gathering from the clouds versus the Angel coming from the Temple indicates two separate sources. The first is the Harvest; the second results in a bodily, physical judgment of death. Indeed, just as Jesus gave the examples of Noah and Lot to indicate the sequence of rescue/wrath - this follows in the same vein. The first Harvest is the rescue, and the second reaping is part of God’s Wrath. As that gets ahead of the total timeline narrative at this point, it will be laid aside for the moment. However, as a parallel account, it lays out its own timeline from its perspective. That perspective serves to add certain details, and as the Day of the Lord progresses, this passage will be revisited.

Going back to the matter at hand, to blend the first part of Revelation 13 through 16 with the Olivet Discourse requires the additional information where events are sequenced in another account: the Seal chronology of Revelation. Noting from the Seal Chronology where the 144,000 follow the Sun/moon/star event, the Harvest portrayed in Revelation 14 can with its precedent events can be wed to the sequence of events from the Olivet Discourse. The Seal chronology dictates that the opening of Revelation chapter 14 be put after the Sun/moon/star event Jesus describes as coming immediately after the Great Tribulation. The accounts diverge as Revelation gives us additional information, but they both match again with the image of Jesus coming on the clouds. In this manner, the Harvest is shows as being identical to the gathering of the Elect from both the Heavens and from the Earth:

• First half of the one ‘seven’
• Army invades/surrounds Jerusalem
Midpoint Abomination(s) - talking statue
Two laws (666)
Great Tribulation
Sun/moon/star event
• 144,000
• Three Angels
Sign of Jesus in the sky, coming on the clouds
Gathering/Redemption/Rapture

This compilation compares favorable with another sequence of events which describes the first resurrection. In Daniel chapter 11 after the dual lens of focus in verse 31, there is a descriptive passage in verses 36-39. The text then proceeds with a sequence of events in 11:40 which leads up to the anti-Christ as the King of the North, encircling the Holy Mountain, which in chapter 8 was linked to Luke’s account of the Olivet Discourse. This action will result in his end, but at that time, the events portrayed in Daniel 12:1 take place which also describes a time of great tribulation and following that: deliverance. The liner narrative of Daniel 11:45-12:1 can be presented as a sequence of events:

• Army encampment
• Michael arising
Great Tribulation
Deliverance

This sequence agrees with the Olivet Discourse and can be incorporated into the combined sequence adding the aspect of God’s reaction to the midpoint Abomination as delineated in chapter eight as coming after the midpoint and with additional study from chapter nine discussing the Two Witnesses can be seen in their arrival:

• First half of the one ‘seven’
• Army invades/surrounds and encamps around Jerusalem
Midpoint Abomination(s) - talking statue
• Michael arising (Two Witnesses)
Two laws (666)
Great Tribulation
Sun/moon/star event
• 144,000
• Three Angels
Sign of Jesus in the sky, coming on the clouds
Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture

Finally, this holistic approach is not at odds with the other sequence of events laid out by Paul in his eschatological teaching to the Thessalonians. There he presents an argument that their Rapture will not come until certain prerequisite events occur. That sequence of events was elaborated upon in chapter seven and the final compilation incorporating all of his explanations to the Thessalonians was presented as this:

• The rebellion occurs
• Opposition and exaltation
• The “one” removed from the midst
Setting himself up as God
• The man of lawlessness revealed.
Jesus comes
Our being gathering to Him
o Dead in Christ
o Those who are alive and are left

Rebellion, opposition and exaltation can be seen in the first half of the one ‘seven.’ The “one” removed from the midst occurs before the midpoint which is where the talking image is set up in the Temple and the anti-Christ commits the ultimate abomination, calling himself god. The events in this sequence can easily be put into the overall sequence which is developed from the Olivet Discourse, Revelation chapter 13 and part of 14, and Daniel 11:45 & 12:1.

• First half of the one ‘seven’
• The rebellion occurs
• Opposition and exaltation
• The “one” removed from the midst
• Army invades/surrounds and encamps around Jerusalem
Midpoint Abomination(s) - talking statue / setting himself up as God
• The man of lawlessness revealed.
• Michael arising (Two Witnesses)
Two laws (666)
Great Tribulation
Sun/moon/star event
Jesus comes, touching down on the Mount of Olives
• 144,000
• Three Angels
Sign of Jesus in the sky, coming on the clouds
Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture
o Dead in Christ
o Those who are alive and are left

This so far, gives a comprehensive review of the sequence of events which can be compiled into a single timeline. All the supporting passages which give a linear account of events are in agreement with each other, and like a Mensa puzzle which gives clues for the order of contestants in a race, or the age of siblings in a family, can be compressed without conflict. Indeed, the areas of agreement between Daniel, the Olivet Discourse, Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians, and the first part of the parallel account in Revelation chapters 13 through 16 all point to a Rapture which happens after the midpoint Abomination as laid out by Gabriel in Daniel 9:24-27.

The first half of the Day of the Lord encompasses the last five events in the total sequence of events as it exists at this point. This sequence is not yet complete though, as the Seal chronology has not yet been added in. That analysis starting on the presentation of the sixth Seal as incorporating the Day of the Lord in chapter 10 will be included shortly, but first there is a sidebar issue to be tied up. Before getting to the second half of the Day of the Lord, a loose end needs to be tightened, and then a conclusion to the gathering will be shown from the Seal chronology which will complete the first half of the Day of the Lord.
 

keras

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Marcus quoted:
Little man:
2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.

Paul gets what Jesus said right.

Mt 24:29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with A great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Keras replies:
I don't mind your epithets, they degrade you more than me.

In no way do your scriptures above prove a removal to heaven. In fact, as Jesus has come back to earth, its impossible for His people to be 'with Him' anywhere else. Supported by many other prophesies. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 11:11-12, Rev 7:9

Your combining the Return in glory with the Day of wrath, is a serious messing around with the Prophetic Word. James 3:1
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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James 3:1? Matthew 7:3-5.

Many bodies flung everywhere! Silence!

In studying the Olivet Discourse, peculiar dissimilarity between Matthew and Mark’s account crops up: the inclusion of the reference to carcasses and vultures in the former. This fact of prophecy stated by Jesus is buttressed in Luke. Luke divides the discussion into two parts, which while different need not invalidate the Olivet Discourse. From a reporting standpoint, different authors have different aims, and the modern standard of presentation was not a cultural more of the day. What remains is loose end to the Rapture: why the cryptic reference?

34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. "
LK 17:37 "Where, Lord?" they asked.
He replied
, "Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."

Luke puts the wayward cryptic line into context of a question. Speaking of the Rapture, rather than plainly saying the Elect are lifted up into the air and join Him, Jesus seems to indicate a deadly end. However, Paul asserts the fact that no all die, so the transformation itself which is involved in the Rapture is not like death. (While the King James renders the word here as “eagle,” vulture is a better translation because it is a carrion eater by nature, while eagles may only on occasion.) Quite naturally, there is a great deal of mystery revolving around the reference in the Olivet Discourse, as stated by the Expositor’s Bible Commentary:

1. Calvin, following some of the Fathers, sees it portraying God's children, gathering to feed on Christ. But identifying carrion with Christ is strange indeed!
2. Others see an allusion to Roman military eagles, with the Roman forces swarming over corrupt Jerusalem. But eagles are not vultures; and the preceding verse relates to the Parousia, not the Fall of Jerusalem.
3. Hill and others think that the vultures' gathering indicates that the Parousia is near. But there must be carrion before the vultures gather; so the symbolism breaks down, because the "signs" attest the reality only after the fact.
4. Manson (Sayings, p. 147) emphasizes the swiftness of the coming of the Son of Man: the carrion is no sooner there than the vultures swoop down (Ezek 17:3, 7; Rev 4:7; 8:13; 12:4). But in passages where the aetos ("eagle" or "vulture") symbolizes speed, it is understood to mean an "eagle." Why then assign it to a setting where it must be taken as a vulture?
5. The proverb may be a colorful way of saying that things come to pass at just the right time (Broadus); so the proverb applies here and in Luke 17:37 to the Parousia of the Son of Man. Concluding this broader section (vv. 4-28) is this thought: Do not be too eager for Christ's coming, or you will be deceived by false claimants (vv. 23-26). When he comes, his coming will be unmistakable (v. 27), in God's own time (v. 28)--a time when the world will be ripe for judgment (Zahn; see on v. 6).
6. Or this enigmatic proverb may simply mean that it will be as impossible for humanity not to see the coming of the Son of Man (cf. v. 27) as it is for vultures to miss seeing carrion (Klostermann).
However, the passage in Luke allows for some context which may when aligned with the explanation Paul gives, shed some light on this loose end of the Rapture. Previously in the Rapture, Paul stated:
1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

It is not often when God actually explains how something He is going to accomplish is actually done, so in this case, it behooves careful examination. That word “changed” is allasso (Strong's 236). The basic meaning is to make different. However, according to the Geoffrey Bromiley in the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament - it means both to change, but more importantly, it can also be legitimately translated to mean exchange.

allasso. The basic sense is “to make other than it is,” used in both the active and middle for “to alter,” “to give in exchange,” “to take in exchange,” and intransitively “to change.” The NT uses only the transitive active and passive.

1. The word has the sense of “to change” in Acts 6:14; Gal 4:20; 1 Cor 15:51-52.
2. It means “to exchange” in Rom 1:23. (p.40)

To discern whether allasso should rightly be translated into change, has to then reflect what actual action is being portrayed. For this analysis, a look at some corresponding principles and Bible precepts is required.
If those who have died and been buried for centuries are made alive - which is what Paul indicates happens when the resurrection of the dead comes - and their bodies are long gone - does God have to re-create their flesh and blood bodies so He can then “change” them into something which is imperishable or can God translate their souls directly into new, imperishable bodies? The answer here is no:

1CO 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

The difference between the body which is “sown” into the ground, is raised a totally different body. What was natural, and goes back to the soil and into other living things being organic, is raised as a spiritual body. Thus God does not need to retrieve the natural body in order to create a new spiritual body. Seeing in the systematic theology presented herein that the dead reside or rest in a spiritual plane of Heaven called Paradise; it is from the spiritual bodies that are also recognizable to each person that God will raise up to be on the cloud with Him.

The question then is: What of the living Elect on the face of the Earth? The Biblical principle here is that flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven:

1CO 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

So the Elect cannot simply have their bodies lifted up physically to join Jesus. The flesh carries too much sin with it perhaps, or there is something about preserving that which is bound to deteriorate into a Heavenly setting where time is eternal. This then necessitates a change, or exchange. In the case of change, the whole of the flesh must give way. This then requires a wholly new body. Some would insist that allasso would provide for such.

However, with the case of those long deceased, God does not have to reconstitute flesh and blood in order to translate those souls from Paradise to stand bodily in their new spiritual, imperishable, and immortal bodies. So in likewise fashion, a new spiritual, imperishable, and immortal body could await those who are still alive and are left. God could simply lift the soul from its vase of flesh are put it in the new spiritual body. This suggests an exchange is on order, which gets back to the root definition of allasso: “to make other than it is.” In like fashion, the bodies of the living Elect are natural, but what they have on the clouds is spiritual.

Looking at allasso as exchange then provides a very real, literal and physical answer which is cold hard truth: the believers taken by Christ and the Angels are instantaneously translated from one vessel to another. The soul does not experience death because the body is wholly alive when the transformation takes place; it just realizes a new abode which does not have any of the former infirmities or liabilities. The suggestion here would go so far as to say such an experience would be joyful even, and not carry any of the stigma, fear, or pain of death.

However, it would allow logistically for the cryptic statement of Jesus to be proved true. It also would fulfill two small references in prophetic passage which indicate the Harvest has some element of terror for those left behind:

AM 8:1 This is what the Sovereign LORD showed me: a basket of ripe fruit. 2 "What do you see, Amos?" he asked.
"A basket of ripe fruit," I answered.
Then the LORD said to me,
"The time is ripe for my people Israel; I will spare them no longer.
AM 8:3 "In that day," declares the Sovereign LORD, "the songs in the temple will turn to wailing. Many, many bodies--flung everywhere! Silence!"

The element of silence is repeated when the seventh Seal is opened. That’s what makes this passage interesting: the juxtaposition of bodies with silence. This aspect in the sequence of events comes next, but in keeping with the current quandary of having corpses all about for vultures, it is interesting to ponder. Certainly as revealed in the concept of rescue/wrath sequence of events with the Day of the Lord, the set-up for the day the Lord refers to is contained in the second half of the Day of the Lord. The suggestion here because of a lack of hard evidence to peg this particular scene to the Rapture, is that is a like window into the Rapture’s byproduct. Isaiah portrays the scene in just as cryptic terms:

ISA 17:14 In the evening, sudden terror!
Before the morning, they are gone
!

The juxtaposition of the sky scrolling revealing light at night is preserved here. The hour of the Day of the Lord is indicated to come at night. This follows all of Jesus’ parables and the whole aspect of the return of the groom in the marriage ritual. The terror is due to the warnings the Angels have given: the residents of the earth are expecting God’s Wrath. Instead, in the morning, they awake to witness a different type of terror: missing persons. They may be missing because they are gone from this earth, and have left dead bodies behind. If the verse said that without indicating any physical harm, then a concrete link could be made, however, the image only matches and is supplied to ask whether or not it might apply rather than dictate that it does.

Now if this teaching for allasso has some saying: ‘My Lord Jesus would never do that to me! He created me and it says He will change me!’ then the reader might want to remember this saying of Jesus and how it was received before its fulfillment:

JN 6:51 “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
JN 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

This teaching also was too hard for those who heard it to bear. However, in the light of faith, Christians understand the interplay between the Bread of Salvation Jesus lifted up at the Passover Meal and the offering of His sinless body on the cross as paving the way for Salvation. Likewise, Jesus gave a literal answer to the Disciples question if one accepts the alternate translation for allasso.

The impact the bodies of the Elect would have would actually compound the fear which has gripped the world. After a dizzying display which few understood, the remaining Christians who had proved so troublesome were seemingly eliminated by the very God they hoped to have return. The public will be talking of Christians in terms of shades of Heaven’s Gates, convincing themselves that the Elect were really kooks as well and even celebrating that they are all dead and done with in the world. This would in turn cause them to ask: If this God of theirs did this to them, what will He do to
__________________________________________​
From Every Nation, Tribe, People and Language

The sequence of events at the midpoint of the Day of the Lord has progressed from a black and white contrast starting out the first day to the second earthquake of the sixth Seal corresponding to Jesus’ touchdown on the Mount of Olives. With the seminal occurrence of Jesus upon the earth, His first action paves the way for another aspect of God’s plan to be fulfilled: the escape of some of the Remnant through the very valley formed by the earthquake. Revelation reveals the order of events next to be the calling of the 144,000 after which the Last Trumpet blows and the Harvest begins. The events listed so far have established the following order which happen on the Day of the Lord:

Sun/moon/star event
Sign of Jesus in the sky, touching down on the Mount of Olives
• 144,000
• Three Angels
Jesus coming on the clouds
Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture
.....o Dead in Christ
.....o Those who are alive and are left

This listing of the sequence of events incorporates the Olivet Discourse; the first part of the one of the parallel account within Revelation chapters 13 through 16, (specifically up to Revelation 14:16); the sequence of events Paul tells the Thessalonians in 2nd Th 2; and two verses from Daniel: 11:45 and 12:1. The only linear account which has any bearing upon the Rapture that has been neglected so far in this sequence of events is the Seal chronology.
This chapter started out describing the events which transpire after sixth Seal is broken by Jesus. The picture form of the passage in Revelation 6:12-14 also describes a sequence of events:

• Earthquake to shake things up
Sun/moon/star event
Scrolling of the sky
• Mountain moving earthquake

All of these events precede the calling of the 144,000, and one specific and unique event is replicated in both lists: the Sun/moon/star event which foretells the Day of the Lord in Old Testament prophecy. Because of the prominence of this special marker which denotes the Day of the Lord; the sixth Seal can be understood to unleash the Day of the Lord. And because there is specific and unique event replicated in both lists above, and Revelation chapter 6 orders the second earthquake before the sealing of the 144,000, the sixth Seal opening sequence of events can be incorporated into the greater list of events which take place before the Rapture:

• First half of the one ‘seven’
• The rebellion occurs
• Opposition and exaltation
• The “one” removed from the midst
• Army invades/surrounds and encamps around Jerusalem
Midpoint Abomination(s) - talking statue / setting himself up as God
• The man of lawlessness revealed.
• Michael arising (Two Witnesses)
Two laws (666)
Great Tribulation
• Earthquake to shake things up - begins Day of the Lord
Sun darkened at noon by a covering of clouds
The Moon appears reddened as the clouds dissipate
Scrolling of the sky - Sign of Jesus in the sky opening it up at night
• Mountain moving earthquake as Jesus touches down on the Mount of Olives
.....o 144,000 are mustered
.....o Three Angels fulfill the Great Commission and warn the wicked
Jesus coming on the clouds around the Earth
Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture
.....o Dead in Christ
.....o Those who are alive and are left

Following the description of the second earthquake the wicked hide now hearing the Angels and while rejecting the Gospel, knowing God’s Wrath is coming and then John hears the number of virgins who are sealed from the tribes of Israel: 144,000. This fact included within Revelation gives some hint of John’s position. He is still reporting what is happening from the third Heaven of God’s presence within the Temple.

This establishes a reference point for John’s observations. It is also why the Seal chronology is viewed in this commentary as being a parallel account within the book of Revelation: it is one long scene describing what John sees when he is told to ‘come up here.’ From John’s perspective, which defines an observer-true point-of-view, he cannot see what is transpiring on Earth, but from hearing, he understands what is going on which is beyond his ability to actually see.

It is in this setting, with John in a spiritual realm beyond the physical bounds of earthly existence, that John suddenly sees a Great Multitude. Now this is interesting because until now, John has been very accurate in describing the Heavenly scene he has been in. John has a writing kit and is taking notes. He is faithfully recording his witness. So having the Great Multitude appear before him now begs the question of where they were before. Evidently, they were not present before John hears the number of those who are sealed. To have the Great Multitude from every nation, tribe, language and people - without number, suddenly show up in the heavenly realm of God’s Court also begs the question of how they got there.

One of the primary examples of the Rapture can be found in the Harvest analogy. In that parable, Jesus describes the “wheat” which figuratively stands for the Church, would be taken to the barn. In the parallel account of Revelation 13 through 16, in chapter 14, the 144,000 precede the Harvest which is depicted there. That Harvest describes the gathering from the Earth which happens last so far in the sequence-of-events which have been extended just above. After the “wheat” is gathered, it must be delivered to the “barn” which is figuratively Heaven. John is, figuratively in the Seal chronology, IN the “barn” of Heaven. His eyewitness account then describes the delivery of the “wheat” as the Great Multitude.

This fulfills Jesus’ promise to the Disciples in John 14:2, that He would take them to where He was going: the presence of the Father. The contention made before in defining terms was that this group, the Elect, as they are defined by John’s description and the Elder’s explanation; includes the Church. Indeed the Elect can include more than just the Church as delineated in the first chapter of this book.
The sequence of events with the sixth Seal overall has two more elements from the earlier listing here:

• Sealing the 144,000
• The Great Multitude

These two events come after the touchdown by Jesus as delineated before. The Great Multitude in the overall in the total sequence of events has to follow the 144,000. As it is the result of the Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture it must follow that event as it is portrayed in the other accounts of the Day of the Lord. Thus, the sequence of events surrounding the Rapture has its natural end when the Harvest is delivered into the barn of Heaven and the overall sequence of events can be modified to fit the Seal chronology:

• First half of the one ‘seven’
• The rebellion occurs
• Opposition and exaltation
• The “one” removed from the midst
• Army invades/surrounds and encamps around Jerusalem
Midpoint Abomination(s) - talking statue / setting himself up as God
• The man of lawlessness revealed.
• Michael arising (Two Witnesses)
Two laws (666)
Great Tribulation
• Earthquake to shake things up - begins Day of the Lord
Sun darkened at noon by a covering of clouds
The Moon appears reddened as the clouds dissipate
Scrolling of the sky with shooting stars as Jesus comes at night: His sign
• Mountain moving earthquake as Jesus touches down on the Mount of Olives
.....o 144,000 are mustered on Mount Zion, the split Mount of Olives
.....o Three Angels fulfill the Great Commission and warn the wicked
Gathering/Redemption/Deliverance/Rapture
.....o Dead in Christ
Jesus coming on the clouds around the Earth with Saints
.....o Those who are alive and are left
• 144,000 are sealed
• Great Multitude arrives in the third Heaven of God’s presence.

Logically, there has to be a mechanism for these people to arrive. That it is not said “how” in the Seal chronology does not mean it doesn’t happen. An omission by God is not a commission of an error, and if Job’s inquiry is any example, God doesn’t owe anyone an explanation of how He does His work. So while the inquisitive will not be satisfied because of the lack of detail, yet an overall picture of what happens can be fashioned. If indeed this body, the Great Multitude, represents those who will be resurrected and gathered up on the Day of the Lord, and John is tied to his observer-true point-of-view, then there is no earthly component John could have seen which would describe how the Great Multitude came to appear before him. So John asks:

REV 7:13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
REV 7:14 I answered, "Sir, you know."
And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Here, John gives perhaps the most beautifully respective answer in the Bible: “Sir, you know.” No wonder John was the one Jesus loved. Not flippant as Satan is when God questions him in the book of Job as to where he’s been by saying; ‘oh, here there and everywhere’ (Job 1:7), John shows respect in his answer, addressing the Elder as Sir, and his answer shows John possesses intelligence as well: “you know.” John indicates he understands the Elder is the teacher and he is the student. And as a matter of the book of Revelation, the Elder reveals the crucial bit of information needed to ascertain where these people came from, but oddly enough, the Elder does not specify a location: but a condition. Before going into that though, a little word study on the actions the Elder says has taken place:

“These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes…in the blood of the Lamb”

The Great Multitude satisfies all the characteristics of the Church. In the text at Revelation 7:14, the Elder says they have washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb. The dichotomy of this in the physical sense shifts it into the figurative or spiritual sense since blood physically stains cloth. Blood carries the Biblical sense of both redeeming and defiling. In the case of shed blood by the Lamb, this blood redeems and so makes clean.

A close examination of the Greek verb tenses has theological rewards which describe the process of Salvation. In verse 14, these people are coming. The Greek (LEKGNT p.629) specifies the verb erchomai here as a participle, which Keating describes as a verb adjective usually ending in -ing. The verb is in the present tense and oddly enough, in the middle voice which has the subject acting “in his own interest or on his own behalf, or participating in the results” ―Corey Keating. This suggests the mechanism may be part of Salvation through faith. In the present tense can describe a work in progress or a continuous action. To put this in the past perfect as have come might indicate in English loses the immediacy of the Great Multitudes’ arrival. To read this as they came first and then washed their robes is not supported in the Greek.

The preposition out of is simple enough, and great tribulation is like what Jesus uses to define it in the Olivet Discourse. But the other verb have washed indicates another aspect to the coming of the people. This verb pluno or eplunan in the lexical is in the aorist tense and indicative mood (LEKGNT p.629) which together “denotes action that occurred in the past time, often translated like the English simple past tense” ―Corey Keating. Adding onto the shades of meaning in the Greek this verb to wash is also in the active voice, indicating the subject is the performer of the action. So seeing it as the second action by having this translation put the tense in the same past perfect as coming actually reverses the order.

Thus, with the added word study, the proper sequence is that the Great Multitude washed their robes clean then come into the Heavenly Realm. Wayne Grudem’s idea of being saved as having three separate occurrences becomes relative with the first action, washing, as Salvation. He states in his Systematic Theology that: 1. all were “saved” when Christ made His sacrifice on the cross; 2. each person is individually “saved” when they accept Christ, and; 3. all are “saved” at their resurrection. In Grudem’s second sense of being saved, the individual makes an active choice and relative to the Heavenly scene, that would have been in their past life.

The middle voice for the second action which is stated in the present tense, coming, even suggests that it is their faith which acts in their behalf and participates in the action as with the third sense of Salvation. Christ brings them home because faith leads to Salvation. So, having washed, from out of the Great Tribulation, they come, as in coming, and as a process, because as John makes the distinction, the first resurrection is not yet complete.

Putting the verb action in the correct order and tense indicates that the presence of the Great Multitude has their origin in each of the individual’s respective past. They come out of the Great Tribulation. This as a condition is specified by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse as beginning at the midpoint of the seventieth ‘seven’ and it ends when the world goes into a panic on the Day of the Lord as the Earth is enveloped in clouds. Thus the Elder does not say, they came from the ends of the first Heaven which is Paradise and that the Great Multitude came from the four corners of the Earth. No, the Elder does not peg the location as John asks, but gives an event, a condition which is ongoing until the remaining Church, those Elect who are still alive and are left are rescued by Christ Jesus.

Does the sequence of events model which has the Tribulation ending with the onset of the sun/moon/star event as Jesus laid out in the Olivet Discourse become invalid with the Elder’s description? In the sense that the Rapture occurs within a set sequence of events that has to begin with the events of the Day of the Lord, then the answer is no. Whenever God decides to rescue His people out of the Tribulation, on that day, the Day of the Lord will begin. This sets the Great Tribulation as an ongoing event for the Church until God intervenes. The Great Tribulation for the Church is ongoing until the Day of the Lord commences.

In the sense that the Elder expresses it, though, the Elect can also be said to have come out of the Great Tribulation. While God is the One who will have stopped the tribulation for the Church when He removes the target of the anti-Christ’s oppression it, since the laws which made the Great Tribulation so great continue; it continues despite the rescue God enacts. Because the Great Tribulation continues, He will have rescued His people out of it. Thus, the Day of the Lord comes immediately after the Great Tribulation ― for the Church and the Church is rescued from out of the Great Tribulation at the same time.
In looking for the Church in Revelation, certainly the Great Multitude fills the bill for the Church: they have been saved by faith in Jesus literally twice over. However, as a set of people the Elect can encompass more than just the Church. God has selected the Elect from the time of Adam on forward through Noah and Abraham and beyond the time of Christ. They can include all those people in the Book of Life as qualify at this moment as Daniel 12:1 foretells.

As a matter of semantics in presenting the Great Multitude, that these people are not named as the Church could be entirely appropriate because they could include more than just the Church. Jesus uses Elect rather for Church in the same way because the truth of the matter to be consistent with Scripture is that the Great Multitude represents those who are in the Book of Life up until this very time. Everyone who calls on the Name of the Lord will be saved: thus the door is opened for others before Christ to have a faith in God that saves.

In chapter one, this commentary expressed the idea that the Elect can include both the Old Testament Saints and New Testament Saints. In addition, Paul’s parenthetical note in Romans 2:14-15 would include Others as worthy of being in the Book of Life. Does the Christian idea of washing then disqualify them from being part of the Great Multitude? Paul makes an impassioned argument that Jew and Gentile are united in Christ in Romans 10:12-20. Here he asks rhetorically how those that could not hear the word can still be saved by it and answers it through Scripture in the affirmative. This buttresses the ability of Old Testament Saints to be able to spiritually wash their robes clean through individual faith in God and so they can be included with the Church which has actively assented to a decision for Christ.

The promise to the people in the Old Testament which applies for the believers in Yahweh is anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Joel 2:32 makes the prophetic promise which is repeated in Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. An example of calling on the name of the Lord would be Psalm 116:4 "O LORD, save me!" which in the Hebrew would be to nearly say the name of Jesus which is: Yahweh is Salvation. Men first started to call upon the name of the Lord in Seth’s time. Job expresses the belief in a redeemer physically present on the Earth as an article of his faith in God. Abram called upon the name of the Lord, as did Isaac, David and Elijah. Likewise the Others could be included as God judges their hearts in their call to Him. So Paul’s argument in Romans, supported in Scripture, shows more than just the Church can be saved.

So finding that the word church is not in Revelation past chapter 3 says nothing of whether the Church can be found in the book of Revelation after the seven Churches are mentioned. To take the Great Multitude and transcribe it to the Elect, which would then include all of the Church, would be the same as understanding that the Son of Man in Revelation 14:14 is the picture of Jesus coming on the clouds for those who are alive and are left.

This mass resurrection/rapture does not complete the first resurrection of the living though, as the 144,000 are still with Christ and the number of the fifth Seal is still not yet complete. While this is the end of the Great Tribulation for the Church, however, for those left behind, the Great Tribulation continues: they will have to worship the talking statue or die; they will have to accept the mark of the beast in order to buy or sell (or face eventual starvation unless they know how to hunt and forage for their own food). The only way for those left behind to join the ones who have been already gathered is not to accept the mark of the beast or worship it. They must suffer the eventual martyrdom which will have them be included into the number of those included in the fifth Seal. This is as the angel says in the parallel account of Rev 13-16:

REV 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
"Yes,"
says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

So is the Great Tribulation over? For those already gathered up by the angels, yes; but for those left behind, no. The Great Tribulation is still ongoing because the anti-Christ is still in power albeit now in decline; his pinnacle at the midpoint has already past and "Who is like God" has arisen (Dan 12:1) - specifically and first: the Two Witnesses have appeared after the Abomination is set up in the Temple. But more importantly, the anti-Christ is still able to exercise enough power to continue this dreadful time. Remember: in the Harvest analogy there are three parts. Two parts have been saved: the Firstfruits and the main harvest. The corners of the field remain; they are not lost: God is watching over them. Their deeds will follow them. They still have work to do in the field.

As a way of a counter argument, two competing ideas will be questioned. While the Church and indeed all the Elect can be shown to be qualified to be the Great Multitude, are there any other people they could be? First is a critique the Pre-Tribulation school of eschatology and then the Post-Tribulation school critique.

The Pre-Millennial, Pre-Tribulation School of eschatology calls the Elect, the Tribulation Saints. This definition for the Elect comes about in reverse. Since the sequence-of-events in the Olivet Discourse plainly sets the Resurrection/Rapture squarely in the one ‘seven,’ Elect cannot possibly mean the Church as it does in every other New Testament passage. Thus here is a case where one’s eschatology dictates one’s exegesis. There is absolutely no Biblical support for designating the Elect in the Olive Discourse as a group of people entirely without any reference to them otherwise. Indeed, the strongest criticism of “Tribulation Saints” is that the term is made up from whole cloth to make the Bible fit eschatology rather than aligning one’s eschatology with the Bible.

To play along with term for a little while, ostensibly, these are the Jewish people who come to Christ and are saved out of the Great Tribulation. However, while Jews are found in more places than just the land of Israel, does having the Jews in the seventieth ‘seven’ at this time meet the qualification of the Great Multitude; are they from every nation, tribe, language and people? The answer here ought to be no. Tribes and people exist without any Jews in them in the world. Neither would a subset of the Jews coming to Christ or even all the Jews be such a great number that no one could count them after John has enumerated the angels in Heaven. There are simply not enough Jews in the world to fulfill this characteristic of the Great Multitude: to be beyond numbering.

In another interpretation of the Pre-Tribulation School of eschatology, could the Great Multitude represent the Church brought up before the one ‘seven?’ If so, then could they have been there all along? Well, if that is the case, then the answer the Elder gives contradicts that, they would not have been taken out of the Great Tribulation especially as Jesus defines the term if they were taken up before the entire one ‘seven’ even starts.

Secondly, it goes against John’s observations of Heaven in chapters four and five of Revelation which chronicled everyone before God’s Throne. No, every indication John gives us is that this Great Multitude suddenly appears as they would if they had just arrived. As John writes in Revelation 7:9: “After this I looked and there before me was…” the afterward comes after hearing the 144,000. Then this scene in Heaven, where John has been all along, suddenly appears before him; they would have been pretty hard to miss before hand. Interpreting in a very literal sense for the Church, the Old Testament Saints and the Others as being the Elect, showing the result of the Rapture appearing in Heaven though is perfectly inline with the Scripture here.

The second critique deals with the Post-Tribulation school of eschatology. They ask: “But what of the Last Trumpet? Paul’s indicates the rapture, from which this Great Multitude springs, occurs with the last trumpet call in 1st Corinthians 15:52!” Again, the Last Trumpet as a named trumpet describes one of the Festival trumpets which sounds the Returning Anew: Rosh ha-Shanah. Rosh ha-Shanah is also called the Festival of Trumpets and the Last Trumpet is the first of those to sound. The seventh Trumpet is never referred to by John in the book of Revelations as the Last Trumpet. Paul, a trained Pharisee, makes this designation, and by all accounts, he never was able to read the book of Revelation to differentiate it from the seventh Trumpet. To say the Last Trumpet must be the seventh fails to look at what Paul says from the context of his life and his perspective.

Furthermore, to put the Great Multitude’s arrival as not being inclusive of the Church as the term “Elect” is used in the New Testament, then begs the question as to just whom is it that are saved which would result in such a Great Multitude? It cannot be Jews from a Post-Trib vantage point because then the Jews would be gathered in before the fullness of the Gentiles is brought in. The last shall be first.

Paul said in Romans 11:11 that Salvation shall come to the Gentiles to make Israel (the nation) jealous. Further on in that chapter of Romans, Paul says: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. That will not be until the First Resurrection is complete, and as the Harvest as so far progressed, one group remains: those martyred for their testimony as defined by the fifth Seal and suspended for a little while longer until their number is complete. There are some pickings in the corners of the field left behind which will complete that number: at least two. So the Great Multitude cannot be Israel because it precedes the end.

Another mechanism which Post-Tribulation advocates work is to then say that the seven Trumpets run parallel to the Seals. However, this interpretation falls flat on two accounts. First, the nature of parallel accounts cannot be arbitrary lest anyone cut and paste the book of Revelation as they like. The tool developed here insists upon a change of both scene and focus. From the time John ascended to the third Heaven of God’s presence, the focus has been on the Scroll and opening it. Thus the sixth Seal comes before the seventh. The two accounts are linear in order, and one follows the other.

Secondly, to run the Trumpets concurrently with the Seals would force the Church to endure the Desolations God’s Wrath brings forth. It is not enough to say that the Church has an escape clause in Revelation 3:10 as is covered in chapter three of this book because tereo ek does afford that kind of total protection which is given with the sealing of the 144,000. The Church is not to suffer Wrath, and as the example of Noah and Lot show, the order is rescue/wrath. It is not shelter during wrath and then rescue from within its midst. If that were the case, Noah would have built a bubble fort and Lot would have been sheltered within Sodom during the rain of burning fire. Furthermore, to insist upon a concurrent parallelism would also invalidate Jesus’ parable of the wheat and tares whereby the wheat would have to stay in the field while the tares were burned before it could be gathered into the barn.

Everything so far lines up the Day of the Lord with it happening at some nebulous time after the midpoint of the one ‘seven.’ The key verse, which allows the ordering of the sixth Seal to occur sometime in the second half of the one ‘seven,’ is given by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse when He orders the Abomination and Sun/moon/star events. Thus the reader is given the tools to know when the time is ripe for His coming.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Books opened

DA 7:8 "While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.

DA 7:9 "As I looked,
"thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.

DA 7:10 A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.


Book in the Old Testament can refer to any written instrument such as a report and can be extended to include an archive. Books were usually scrolls. Book, or seper, usually is indicated within the text, as the Book of Law or the Book of the annals of the Kings. Here there is no specific reference, however, a logically conclusion as to which book this is can easily be made.

Recording has a major place in the Bible. God records names and events and instructs the prophets to do likewise (Num 33:2, Ps 87:4, Jer 22:30, Eze 24:2). This careful accounting allows God to separate the weeds from the wheat. This is the opposite of what man is capable of as portrayed in Jesus’ parable of the wheat and tares in Matthew 13:24-43.

The foundation for this separation lies in the recorded deeds. Those in the Book of Life have not had their name blotted out. God has kept them, and His love remembers not their sins. They are the righteous in God’s judgment. In order to make the distinction in rescuing God’s people, the records are referenced.

This planning is evident in God’s creation as well. God laid the foundation for the world long before man arrived in Adam. The world was prepared ahead of time for events that would play out. And just as Jesus describes a man who plans ahead in the illustrations of building a tower or fighting a war in Luke 14:28-32, Here in Daniel, God is planning a response to the anti-Christ, specifically the Abomination that has been set up by the Desolator and the opening of books concerns the imminent rescue of God’s people.

The book could refer to the Book of Life. This Book is first revealed in Exodus 32:32 with Moses’ reference to it. Having your name written in it assures admittance to life. Being stricken out, results in being struck out from Heaven, as are all those doomed to Hell as shown in Psalm 69:28;

PS 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life
and not be listed with the righteous.


Isaiah 4:3 adds to the attribute of living to being so recorded as does Ezekiel in verse 13:9 but here in the negative in regards to false prophets. Malachi refers to it as a scroll of remembrance, and the Book of Life is mentioned several times in Revelation for discerning who is admitted to Heaven and who is not.

Following the establishment of the speaking statue is God’s reaction. Here in Daniel chapter seven, it is the opening of books. The book here should best be understood in a like version of this end time juncture in Daniel chapter twelve.

DA 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.

The qualification for being rescued will be whether or not their name is found in the Book of Life. In order for that determination to be made, a complete accounting will be made. To be successful, God plans deliberately, and this example is wholly inline with God’s plan being laid out before execution. The timeline revealed in the text of Daniel 7:10 shows this planning taking place in the heavenly court of God before the rescue of God’s people is made.

On the other hand, the Book, while a Scroll, need not be a mere listing of names like a census. The word used in Daniel can denote such, but it can also denote a longer, more complicated tome like the Book of Chronicles which came in scroll form in Daniel’s time. While there is ample evidence in Scripture for the Book of Life, there is one Scroll, or book (but it is not a codex, or modern bound book as is used today) which was seminal for its opening: the Scroll of Revelation chapter five.

This Scroll unleashes the “desolations (which) have been decreed” of Daniel 9:26. Those desolations require storage since they were decreed so long ago. And true to form, after the Books are opened of Daniel 7:10 is followed by God’s Wrath, because it is the desolations which undo, and then destroy the anti-Christ:

Dan 7:11 "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

Because of the effort required to open the Scroll of Revelation, because it is the center point of God the Father’s Court in Heaven, and because the Seals that only the Lamb was able to break are so necessary to happen first in the timing of God’s Wrath – the opening of the Scroll is deemed to be the counter portion of Scripture to Daniel 7:10’s Book being opened in the opinion of the author. In addition, the little horn brackets the vision of the Courtly scene. By its close linkage in the narrative, a relationship might very well exist whereby the Book deals with the anti-Christ figure.

There is no separate sequencing in Scripture to dissolve the ambiguity over the nature of the Book. The only sequence clue is that the Book of Daniel 7:10 be opened before God’s Wrath, so no firm determination for this event regardless of which Book it really is, can be made. The placement for this event is an educated guess and will follow the seventh Seal’s breaking, whereas the “book” is the scroll containing God’s Wrath. Alternately, this book could be the Book of Life, and it would also be opened up before God’s Wrath to mark the Elect who will be taken up with the Sixth Seal out of the Great Tribulation.
 

keras

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The theory of the Day of vengeance and wrath happening on the same Day as the Return in glory, is wrong.
Proved by how the Lord 'sends fire' upon His enemies. Amos 1 and 2 says this 6 times.
Ezekiel 20:45-48 ....I am about to kindle a fire in the Land, it will consume everything from the Negev northward.
This cannot be and is not, what happens at the Return, when He splits the Mount of Olives, when He gathers His chosen to Him, when He destroys Satan's armies by the Sword of His Word and commences His Millennial reign.

There are many warnings to us of the forthcoming Day of worldwide disaster, God's reset of civilization, in a similar way to what He did in Noah's day. But people want to think things will continue on as they are indefinitely. They are unaware of God's plan to destroy His enemies by a massive fire from the sky, that will change the world and commence the last days.
Actually most church people simply don't want to know, they have been 'end timed out', by failed predictions and confused by misunderstanding the Prophetic Word. Worse, they believe false teachings, such as a 'rapture' to heaven before anything happens.

I ask that everyone read Isaiah 24. This prophecy cannot be related to the Return, but in Jerusalem, the Lord will be 'revealed to His own people'. Isaiah 24:23, 2 Thess. 1:10 Those people are mentioned in Isaiah 24:14-16, it is them that are gathered, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Ezekiel 34:11-16 and praise their Lord in Rev. 7:9. Great will be the Day!