The Day of the Lord

[robert derrick]

My guess is that the term may have some technical connotations, expressing the Eschaton.

Peter in Acts 2 declared the eschaton and notable day of the Lord is come, when Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, and risen again from the dead, and poured out His spirit upon all flesh.

Throughout the Prophets we hear this focus upon a final resolution for Israel, which in NT terms now includes the fate of Gentile nations.

True.

A Day is coming in which Messiah will establish his Eternal Kingdom on earth, with the removal of all forces to prevent this.

I would only say a time in the day of the Lord now on earth, will be with His second appearing in sight of men, and establishing His earthly kingdom.

The day of the Lord prophecies of old, clearly speak of His coming in the flesh, which Peter confirms, as well as His coming again to appear in the air, as He said, and Paul confirms.

But the use of the term "Day of the Lord" can also be used in particular situations, non-eschatological, for historic events in which God either judges or saves. It may even be used for the 1st Coming of Jesus, and for the judgment that fell upon Israel immediately after that event.

True.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

But that great and notable day of the Lord, is the day prophesied of the Lord Himself coming to earth to reign, which is first in the flesh.

It really depends, in my thinking, on the context for each use. The problem begins when we try to tie every use of the term "Day of the Lord" to a single context. And language does not work that way. Each use must be viewed in its own context.

True. The day of the Lord is not a single event on earth, but is ongoing with 1st and 2nd appearings of Jesus Christ in sight of men.

 

[robert derrick]

The Day of the Lord coming is determined according to whose prophesy is being foretold. If the prophesy for the Day of the Lord is foretold by the prophets of the Old Testament, who lived and died before the advent of Christ, then the Day of the Lord to them began when the promised Messiah came. All the prophets of old foretell would come to pass when the Messiah came is not one day, but the Messianic age, the Gospel era. But if the Day of the Lord is foretold from the authors of the New Testament, that Day shall be ONE day when Christ, the Messiah/Savior comes again as Judge, when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no longer.

True. However I would say the same day of the Lord is come to earth, with two separate appearings in sight of men on earth.

The day of the Lord is still here on earth, because the Lord Jesus is still here in the body of His saints on earth.

The Lord has not come, and then left, and then comes a second time on earth, as though Jesus Christ is not still come to earth.

Scripture NT apostles do not speak of a second coming of the Lord to earth, but only of a second appearing in sight of men on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

So what is it? What happens when the day of the Lord comes?

It's not simply a time of arrival, nor is it a departure time. Neither the beginning of a reign nor the end times.

The day, is a time of deliverance. "The day" of the Lord, is the time of salvation, when a savior delivers a people oppressed, enslaved and held captive.

True. many such days have been spoken of in Scripture, beginning with the day the Lord created heaven and earth, and man in his own image.

But that great and notable day of the Lord prophesied of many times in Scripture, is when the Lord Himself comes down from heaven to earth.

This day is begun with Jesus Christ coming in the flesh, and ends with the earth being burned up by fire of God.

 

[robert derrick]

A rather confusing sentence.

It only means that the day of the Lord prophesied in Scripture, is of the Lord Himself coming down to earth from heaven.

That day is the day the Lord Himself, is come down from heaven in the flesh on earth.

Prophesies such as Isaiah 8:14, Isaiah 29:5-9, Zechariah 3:9, Revelation 19:8, prove it to be a one day event.

There are many one day events, within the day of the Lord is come to earth.

Beginning with the one day event of Jesus being born a babe on the earth.

Another one day event, will be the Lord standing on Olivet to cleave it in two.

It is nonsense to think Jesus will destroy the world that He comes to rule over!

Amen to that.

 

[amigo de christo]

But of the times and the seasons you have no need for me to write unto you
For the DAY of the LORD cometh as a theif in the night
for when they shall say peace and safety , THEN COMETH SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them ..........
Enoch is right . ITS A FUTURE day of divine judgment against the ungodly .

 

[robert derrick]

You are speculating, while I have given you the scriptures and told you the truth. You should have asked as Nicodemus did, and believed.

Yeah right. You're a funny guy, but you're certainly not Christ come in the flesh, again.

Now, you're even trying to talk like it.

What you can't do is be corrected, because you think you've already ascended into the heavens with resurrected spiritual body.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Peter in Acts 2 declared the eschaton and notable day of the Lord is come, when Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, and risen again from the dead, and poured out His spirit upon all flesh.

It's been a head-scratcher for a long time, but I don't think it's overly difficult, nor meant to be so. Prior to Jesus' 1st Coming, all prophecy about the coming of Messiah seemed blurred into one.

But now that Christ has come, and has fulfilled the 6 points of Dan 9.24, I think it's apparently that Jesus spoke of his future Coming, a coming that will be paired with the inception of his Kingdom.

True.

I would only say a time in the day of the Lord now on earth, will be with His second appearing in sight of men, and establishing His earthly kingdom.

The day of the Lord prophecies of old, clearly speak of His coming in the flesh, which Peter confirms, as well as His coming again to appear in the air, as He said, and Paul confirms.


True.

These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

But that great and notable day of the Lord, is the day prophesied of the Lord Himself coming to earth to reign, which is first in the flesh.

True. The day of the Lord is not a single event on earth, but is ongoing with 1st and 2nd appearings of Jesus Christ in sight of men.

The way you are personally using the "Day of the Lord" is legitimate because you are the one describing a reality, that Christ has come and has begun a new day. One Scriptural author describes it as "today," or "now." "Now is the day of Salvation," or something to that effect.

And the Kingdom that Christ has established and keeps for us in heaven will continue until it is consummated here on the earth as well. It's just that God is giving Satan his run, along with people who are being given their own choices. In the meantime, a lot of people suffer, and it certainly doesn't look like the "Day of the Lord.'

But the Day of the Lord is about both judgment and Salvation. And both have been taking place since Christ came the first time. In my view, it will all get wrapped up at Armageddon and at Christ's 2nd Coming. And that will perhaps be what we call a different "Day of the Lord," although continuing from Christ's initial act of Salvation and judgment.

Again, we would have to look at each biblical use of the term "Day of the Lord," to know how the author is applying it. It may be best, when using the term "Day of the Lord," to describe what we mean, current age or next age, because there are so many of us Christians with a diversity of views we need to make our position as clear as possible?

I think part of the problem may be that from the OT perspective Christ's Coming was viewed with less distinction than we have now, between 1st and 2nd Comings. So we should probably consider this? Christ's 1st Coming seemed to be somewhat veiled against unbelievers, whose love for God was unwilling to endure suffering for His Kingdom.

 

[robert derrick]

But of the times and the seasons you have no need for me to write unto you
For the DAY of the LORD cometh as a theif in the night
for when they shall say peace and safety , THEN COMETH SUDDEN DESTRUCTION upon them ..........
Enoch is right . ITS A FUTURE day of divine judgment against the ungodly .

True. And it's a current day of grace on earth.

It will also be a day of Christ reigning over the earth.

And it will finally be a day of fire of God burning up the earth.

the day of the Lord is come with the Lord Jesus Christ come to earth, has two separate appearings of the Lord in sight of men, and ends when the earth ends.

The Day of the Lord come to earth, is the Lord coming to end the reign of men on earth, without Him being on earth Himself.

 

[robert derrick]

It's been a head-scratcher for a long time, but I don't think it's overly difficult, nor meant to be so. Prior to Jesus' 1st Coming, all prophecy about the coming of Messiah seemed blurred into one.

Agreed. I like that. Before Jesus came, the prophecies of His day were blurred into one day and event.

Some still think that way.

The unbelieving Jews are still waiting for it to be that way.

But now that Christ has come, and has fulfilled the 6 points of Dan 9.24, I think it's apparently that Jesus spoke of his future Coming, a coming that will be paired with the inception of his Kingdom.

True. He will come again and recieve His church unto Himself, and establish His rule over all the earth.

That is the second appearing of the day of the Lord on earth, spoken of by Paul and John.

The way you are personally using the "Day of the Lord" is legitimate because you are the one describing a reality, that Christ has come and has begun a new day. One Scriptural author describes it as "today," or "now." "Now is the day of Salvation," or something to that effect.

Yes. The main point being that Jesus' ascension to the throne of God, does not mean He has left nor forsaken the earth altogether.

There are good Christians, who do not believe He is now involved in the affairs of men on earth, icluding their own.

I used to think and act that way, not as an excuse for sinning, but as a fact of life to deal with.

And the Kingdom that Christ has established and keeps for us in heaven will continue until it is consummated here on the earth as well. It's just that God is giving Satan his run, along with people who are being given their own choices. In the meantime, a lot of people suffer, and it certainly doesn't look like the "Day of the Lord.'

Agree. it all depends on what day we are having. Afterall, what do I care of there is greater tribulation to come in the future on earth, while I am in the midst of the greatest tribulation and trial in my own life?

Knowing that the day of the Lord is now on earth, and we are all promised tribulation to enter into His kingdom, makes the battle clearer, and even more comforting, knowing He is still on earth with us, and went through the same as a man.

But the Day of the Lord is about both judgment and Salvation. And both have been taking place since Christ came the first time. In my view, it will all get wrapped up at Armageddon and at Christ's 2nd Coming. And that will perhaps be what we call a different "Day of the Lord," although continuing from Christ's initial act of Salvation and judgment.

Fine by me. the same day on earth, but certainly different with the Lord seen of men again on earth.

Again, we would have to look at each biblical use of the term "Day of the Lord," to know how the author is applying it. It may be best, when using the term "Day of the Lord," to describe what we mean, current age or next age, because there are so many of us Christians with a diversity of views we need to make our position as clear as possible?

I say that is most possible, by keeping it simple. The day of the Lord obviously is come to the earth, because the day the Lord is come to the earth, is here.

Working out the events and details of His day on earth, can now be easier. Such as there are two appearings of the Lord on earth, in His day, first in the flesh, and then in the air. Bot times are seen of men on earth.

I think part of the problem may be that from the OT perspective Christ's Coming was viewed with less distinction than we have now, between 1st and 2nd Comings. So we should probably consider this? Christ's 1st Coming seemed to be somewhat veiled against unbelievers, whose love for God was unwilling to endure suffering for His Kingdom.

And whose love of God was only for destruction of their enemies on earth.

And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

That is true of both His first and second appearing on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

The day of the Lord is come on earth, and has two appearings of the Lord on earth in sight of men, with prophecy applying to both appearings:

The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness.

Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

The scripture of that dark and gloomy day of the Lord, is first fulfilled with the crucifixion of the Son of God and Lord of all the earth.

There was literal darkness over all the earth, as well as great gloominess of His disciples on the earth, so much so, that they did not believe He would rise again.

Men think only of our own gloominess on earth, but not of the Father's own gloominess at the time of His dear Son's crucifixion on the earth.

By mercy, the Father only made His time of wrath and gloominess, to be natural darkness over all the earth.

It was also a day of wasteness and desolation over all the earth, for all men were judged to be in unbelief, and the earth was as it were without form of any godliness, and void of any faith in Jesus as the Christ on earth:

For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

With the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Light was commanded once again to shine out of darkness, but now out of the hearts of them that believe and obey Him:

For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

In fulfilling prophecy of the day of the Lord's coming to earth, there is one day of the Lord Himself on earth, one night of that day of the Lord crucified on earth, and two appearings of the Lord on earth: First before His crucifixion, and second after His resurrection.

 

[Keraz]

Obadiah 1:15-21 The Day of the Lord is at hand for all the nations, they will be treated as they have treated others and their wrong actions will recoil upon themselves. My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath, then all the nations in turn will drink of it and be devastated by it. But in Jerusalem there will be a holy remnant, the Lord’s people will be like a flame while the House of Esau will be burnt up with no survivors. My [Christian] people will possess all of the holy Land that was given to Abraham and those in Jerusalem who lead My people will control the lands of the Edomites, but the Kingdom belongs to the Lord.

Isaiah 28:21-22 The Lord will arise as He did at Mt Perazim and in the valley of Gibeon, and storm with rage to do what He must do, to perform His task – a strange and alien deed. But now, have done with all arrogance and pride or the Lord will increase His punishment, for destruction is decreed over the whole Land. Jeremiah 10:18

Isaiah 26:10-11 Lord: Your hand is lifted high and Your enemies can’t see Your good will toward Your people. [Let them see and be ashamed.] Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them. The wicked are destroyed, they have never learnt justice, they are corrupt and blinded to Your Majesty and power.

Micah 4:11-12 Now, many nations are massed against Israel, they say: Let Zion suffer outrage, we will gloat over their demise. They are unaware of the Lord’s plans, for His purpose is to gather them like sheaves to the threshing floor. Psalms 83:1-8

Nahum 1:5 The earth quakes before the Lord, the world and all who live in it are in tumult. Who can stand before His wrath? Who can resist the fury of His anger, poured out as fire? 2 Peter 3:7



‘The Lord will arise and storm with rage, as He did in ancient times’. Psalms 83:9-18, Jeremiah 30:23-24, Isaiah 51:9

‘His task, strange and alien’. We know God as a God of love, but also of justice and it is just to punish those who do not obey Him and who attack His Land. Isaiah 34:5

‘destruction is decreed’. The entire Middle East will be burnt and devastated. Ezekiel 30:3-5, Isaiah 17:1, Amos 1:3-15

‘fire reserved for the Lord’s enemies will consume them, His anger poured out as fire’. A massive sunstrike CME will fulfill all these prophesied effects. Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1

‘My people will drink the wine of God’s wrath’. This will be the third ‘swing of the sword’ Ezekiel 21:14, the final judgement/punishment of the Jewish people. Jeremiah 2:9, Ezekiel 24:14 Only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27

‘now, many nations are massed against Israel’. This perfectly describes the situation today and they want to ‘gloat over her demise’. Psalms 83:1-18

‘The House of Esau, burnt up – no survivors’. Those attacking Israel will be totally wiped out. Zephaniah 3:8, Zephaniah 2:4-5

‘those who lead My people’. Another proof that all this will happen before the Return of Jesus. Jeremiah 30:21, Hosea 1:11

 

[robert derrick]

The Lord's people are all Christian saints walking with Jesus hand in hand.

They are not ever again to be confined to any nation nor location on earth.

A Christian in Israel is no different, nor better, nor more specially called, than a Christian in Burma.

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

All this respect of persons in Christ Jesus, for the sake of interpretation of prophecy, is garbage, and does no good for the unity of the body of Christ on earth.

Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

All interpretation of prophecy, based upon being a 'Jewish' or 'Gentile' Christian, is carnal mindedness applied to prophecy of Scripture.

There is only one Christian on earth: A born again saint and son of God in Christ Jesus.

That includes today in these last days, tomorrow at the end of these last days, and forever during Christ's earthly reign, and on the new earth to come.

 

[Keraz]

All interpretation of prophecy, based upon being a 'Jewish' or 'Gentile' Christian, is carnal mindedness applied to prophecy of Scriptur

I agree.
However, the Bible and therefore God, does make distinctions. He chose a people in ancient times and they are present now and will figure in the end times.
The House of Judah will be virtually destroyed, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27
The House of Israel is represented by ALL the faithful Christian peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10 They will gather into all of the holy Land during the last few years of this age. John sees them there: Revelation 7:9

 

[robert derrick]

I agree.
However, the Bible and therefore God, does make distinctions. He chose a people in ancient times

True.

and they are present now

True. There are still natural born Jews.

and will figure in the end times.

True, along with other nations gathered against the Lord for war, just alike members of false religions, unbelievers, and atheists.

The Christians will figure in being tempted, decieved,a nd persecuted, until they are resurrected and changed to meet the Lord coming in the air.

The House of Judah will be virtually destroyed, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27

The house of national Judah and Israel was already destroyed, from being a people of God, at the cross, when they had the God of Israel crucified to death.

The tabernacle of David is now being built from the ground up by Jesus, as His church and green olive tree of Jacob and Israel.

Some branches are grafted in, and some grafted in again.

The House of Israel is represented by ALL the faithful Christian peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10

They are all faithful Christians. They are all representatives witnesses of Jesus as Christ and Lord and God.

They will gather into all of the holy Land during the last few years of this age. John sees them there: Revelation 7:9

Interesting. A pilgrimage of all Christians on earth to Judea and Jerusalem?

Never heard that one before.

Or maybe the only Christians left on earth will be in that region, after all others are dead in Christ, whether by natural causes, criminal assault, accidental death, or martyrdom.

The same as today, in these last days, as well as since the time of the apostles.

 

[Keraz]

Interesting. A pilgrimage of all Christians on earth to Judea and Jerusalem?

I generally agree with your replies above.
There is no general Resurrection or change when Jesus Returns. Only the GT martyrs - Rev 20:4

The faithful Christians going to and living in all of the holy Land, is comprehensively Prophesied. Look at prophesies like Psalms 107, Isaiah 35. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8, Romans 9:24-26, +
It is our destiny; WE will fulfil Gods desire to have a people in the holy Land, as His witnesses, Isaiah 43:19, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49"3-8, Matthew 5:14-16
Proved by how we are there when the Anti-Christ 'beast' attacks and conquers us. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8

 

[robert derrick]

I generally agree with your replies above.
There is no general Resurrection or change when Jesus Returns. Only the GT martyrs - Rev 20:4

The thing is, that not only does interpretation of prophecy need conform to Scripture, but it also must conform to doctrine of Scripture:

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul plainly teaches all the dead in Christ preceeding himself, will be resurrected together to meet with the Lord in the air.

He did not remain alive, but we are, and so we can say the same, and if the Lord tarries, then so can any saint alive on earth say the same in their time.

Neither will we alive today prevent them that sleep yesterday, nor will them that sleep in future, prevent us alive today.

That first bodily resurrection of all saints at the Lord's appearing in the air, will be all the dead in Christ, and all remaining alive on earth at that time.

The only remaining saints in Christ Jesus to be resurrected as them of the first resurrection, will be the multitude of them won to Christ during His earthly reign. At that time it will be the greatest harvest of souls on earth to the Lord, by His own personal ministering of His gospel, not in the flesh as at the first, but with resurrected body as the Lamb of God, and the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

The faithful Christians going to and living in all of the holy Land, is comprehensively Prophesied. Look at prophesies like Psalms 107, Isaiah 35. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Zechariah 8:1-8, Romans 9:24-26, +
It is our destiny; WE will fulfil Gods desire to have a people in the holy Land, as His witnesses, Isaiah 43:19, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49"3-8, Matthew 5:14-16
Proved by how we are there when the Anti-Christ 'beast' attacks and conquers us. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8

This will only be after Jesus sits on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

Until He steps on Olivet, and cleanses first Jerusalem and all Judea of war-making unbelievers and corrupted believers alike, then Jerusalem will still remain spiritually Sodom and Egypt as today.

If there is some great Christian pilgrimage to Jeruslaem, or Christians are all killed off in other nations, then that city will still be dominated spiritually even worse than today, because the last great antichrist beast on earth will be sitting there idolizing himself as God and Christ Himself come again on earth in the flesh.

Doctrine of Scripture must also be considered in prophecy of Scripture: the only holy land and temple of God on earth today and tomorrow, is where Christian saints walk with Jesus.

Like ancient Greece, tourists can tour the land, but Jerusalem is no more holy, nor that land, than is the ancient site of Delphi.

 

[Keraz]

That first bodily resurrection of all saints at the Lord's appearing in the air, will be all the dead in Christ, and all remaining alive on earth at that time

Paul does NOT say 'all' the dead'.
Revelation 20:4 says which of the Christian dead will be raised when Jesus Returns.
It is illogical and unscriptural the have mortals and immortals together during the Millennium.

Like ancient Greece, tourists can tour the land, but Jerusalem is no more holy, nor that land, than is the ancient site of Delphi.

I have been to both, I can assure you that Jerusalem has a special ambience and Delphi is just a pile of rubble.
Thinking that the holy Land is of no special significance today, is a denial of scriptures like Deuteronomy 11:11-12, Isaiah 49:14-21, +

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will save Zion and will build the cities there, so His faithful people may dwell there and have it as their possession. The children of His servants shall inherit the Holy Land and all who love His Name shall dwell there.

I guess you haven't bothered to look at the scriptures I gave.
Great will be the time when we Christians will live in all of the holy Land. Zechariah 3:9-10

 

[robert derrick]

Paul does NOT say 'all' the dead'.

He certainly did include all the dead gone before him, which will include all the dead gone before us, since the Lord has not yet come again. And it will include all the dead gone before them alive and remaining, when He does appear again.

Revelation 20:4 says which of the Christian dead will be raised when Jesus Returns.

All those who have part in the body of Christ up to the time of His appearing, whether dead in the grave, or still alive on earth.

It is illogical and unscriptural the have mortals and immortals together during the Millennium.

To you, because you are thinking as a natural man, and not Scripturally.

Jesus walked among His disciples, eating and drinking, for 40 days after His resurrection. He could also appear more glorified in sight of John on Patmos.

What's not logical to me, and makes no sense, is the earth being ruled by the Lord and His resurrected saints, that is only filled with animals and trees.

I mean, what's the point? A thousand years of fun in the sun? No work of the Lord to do? No saving of souls?

They're certainly not going to be ruling over each other with rods of iron.

I have been to both, I can assure you that Jerusalem has a special ambience and Delphi is just a pile of rubble.
Thinking that the holy Land is of no special significance today, is a denial of scriptures like Deuteronomy 11:11-12, Isaiah 49:14-21, +

You have your holy land to worship in. I don't.

I don't do 'ambience' for Scriptural truth.

The land promises and earthly priesthood for a natural people ended at the cross, and will not be fulfilled, until after Jesus' appearing again on earth.

Until you take Scripture literally, and acknowledge there is now no specialty between Christians, whether by natrual birth, or by date, then you are teaching a prophecy based upon respect of persons in the faith:

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

There is not now, nor ever will be a special membership club in the body of Christ, because of natural birth, or what year it is on earth.

No one beheaded today or in the future, is any more specially deserving of ruling with Christ on earth, than Paul. Neither is any marty better than Abel. And no one martyred is any better than Christians dying peacefully in their sleep.

Allah says martyrs are really special to himself, with a special reward, and we see the result of that.

Show in Scripture the doctrine that martyrs deserve something more special than other Christians.

The only doctrine about martyrdom, is that if we are without charity of Christ, then it's nothing.

And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Your prophetic fixation on Jewish blood and martyrdom is not doctrine of Christ, nor spiritually healthy, not unity in the body of Christ.

Frankly put, I don't care one bit about any trips any Christian has made to any land on earth. My question is, how are we living and walking with Jesus here and now, wherever we are, because that is all that matters to God.

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will save Zion and will build the cities there, so His faithful people may dwell there and have it as their possession. The children of His servants shall inherit the Holy Land and all who love His Name shall dwell there.

True. After the slaughter around Armageddon and Judea, and the Lord stands on Olivet, and sits on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

Until then: Only those calling on His name shall be saved, and it doesn't matter where nor when, so long as it's before the grave, whether Rome, Greece, Israel, or Bangladesh, today or the last day before His appearing on earth again.

I guess you haven't bothered to look at the scriptures I gave.

I've responded to every point you make specifically.

You are avoiding my main points in response:

1. No respect of persons in the faith, whether by flesh, geography, or year.

2. ALl the dead in Christ, with those alive and remaining at His coming again, will meet Him in the air, and rule with Him over the earth.

3. The division of natural sheep and goats, will purge the earth of all them that hate Him, and leave only the neighborly to come to Him for salvation.

Great will be the time when we Christians will live in all of the holy Land. Zechariah 3:9-10

Sure will.

And the natural Hebrew Jews will be the natural priesthood first promised to them over all the earth, in Ex 19.

And they will need to be circumcised in Christ spiritually, as well as outwardly, in order to personally minister to Him in His house, built according to the measurements in Ezekiel 40-.