The Day of Trumpets and Alarms

[keras]

We humans are earthly creatures.
Please give scriptures proving specifically; that any human, alive or dead, goes to live in God's dwelling place. [Other than Enoch and Elijah - they will be the two witnesses and will be killed and again taken to heaven]

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And you write Bible study guides?

Dude, we are souls; we have a body. It's not the other way around.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, " Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb." 11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, " Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen."

Coronal mass ejection... yeah, right. My fourth grade English teacher said a double negative cancelled each other out to a positive, but that there was at no time, anything in the English language whereupon a double positive could equal a negative and I said: "Yeah, right."

 

[keras]

And you don't answer questions.
Give us another explanation for Isaiah 30:26. Also Malachi 4:1. In their context, please.
Where are the scriptures that specifically say we go to heaven? Dead or alive. Rev 7:9 is not in heaven, proved by Rev 14:1, they are in Jerusalem.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Whoa there buddy-ro. I answered your question: Revelation 7:9-12 shows people in Heaven before the Throne of the "Ancient One of Days" - which is John's humble praiseworthy manner of referring to God the Father.

Revelation 7:9-12 is not related to Revelation 14:1 - those two verses are in wholly different parallel accounts. The broad overview of the end found in Revelation chapters 4 through 11 (exclusive of 11:1-13) starts out with a very good report by John on all that is seen and heard in the Temple of God where He resides on His Throne. Revelation 7 directly references the Throne John describes in Rev 4:2-3.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 are standing on Mount Zion, the newly cleft Mount of Olives.
The Great Multitude of Revelation 7 are standing not on Mount Zion, but before the Throne in Heaven; the place where John is from Revelation 4:1.

Furthermore, more people from the earth can be seen in Heaven with the fifth Seal's opening.

So your "complaint" that the Bible doesn't specifically say we go to Heaven shows the false presumption of ultra-literalness and a lack of understanding on your part.

Jesus said He was going to come back and take us to where He is going - to be with the Father - in John 14:2-3. If that isn't "clear" enough for you, maybe you ought to read a good Bible Study Guide on that passage. I'll give you one if you're not familiar with any:

2 In spite of the threatening circumstances, Jesus spoke with calm assurance of the divine provision for them and took for granted that they would have a place in the eternal world. Jesus never speculated about a future life; he spoke as one who was as familiar with eternity as one is with his hometown. The imagery of a dwelling place ("rooms") is taken from the oriental house in which the sons and daughters have apartments under the same roof as their parents. The purpose of his departure was to make ready the place where he could welcome them permanently. Certainly he would not go to prepare for friends unless he expected that they would finally arrive. Although he was well aware of their weakness and impending failure, he took the responsibility of bringing them to the Father's house.

3 "I will come back" is one of the few eschatological allusions in this Gospel. Jesus was not speaking of a general resurrection but of his personal concern for his own disciples. Though he did not elaborate on the promise, the guarantee is unmistakable. His return is as certain as his departure, and he would take them with him to his Father's house. This promise does not refer to death. Jesus left by the road of death; he will return by the road of life, as he said later in this discourse:"Because I live, you also will live" (v. 19).

Right now I'm writing about the Day of the Lord Wrath, and I am not under your orders to write commentary to your satisfaction on various Old Testament verses.

 

[keras]

I am very familiar with the holy scriptures and I do not see anywhere that humans will go to live in heaven. Your assumption from Rev 7 and John 14:2-3, is wrong, they DO NOT say that the people or those 'mansions' are in heaven. To think they are, is a false doctrine. The 5th Seal, does NOT say the altar is in heaven, just your assumption again.
Jesus will Return someday soon and when He does, He brings our rewards with Him Rev 22:12. He and [after 1000 years] God the Father, will come down to a new earth, Rev 21:3, where humans were made and where we remain, albeit in better bodies. Rev 22:1-5
I suggest you consider what scripture actually says, very carefully, being aware that false doctrines have crept into Church thinking and it is a mistake to just accept them without Biblical proof.
With your study on the Lord's Day of wrath, I trust you have an open mind to what the purpose, the means used, and the results of that Day are. I see over 100 prophesies referring to that terrible Day.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

False doctrine, eh? Hey my friend: watch throwing stones when you live in a glass house.

A coronal mass ejection would not increase the sun's "intensity" of brightness. We've had many over the years and they don't make the sun "brighter." Their affect is felt in other ways.

I do not see anywhere that humans will go to live in heaven.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, it just means you don't see it.

I see over 100 prophesies referring to that terrible Day.

Well, I already have some questions about your sight, and just because you see it, doesn't mean it's there either. In fact, I think some of the things you've strung together with the Day of the Lord don't fit there at all, which is why I called your list creative and imaginative. I was being nice. If I wanted to be mean, I'd say you were teaching a false doctrine.

I have some good advice for you: "Don't believe everything you think."

 

[keras]

My advice for you is to believe what scripture actually says, not any so called teachers, including me!
This is what the Word says: No one has ever gone to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.... John 3:13
Where, exactly does your expectation of going to heaven come from? No scripture actually says anyone goes to heaven. [except the 2 witnesses] It is sometimes written to seem as that is what could happen, but in fact the allusion is to a earthly 'heaven', like the Garden of Eden.

The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all wicked and godless people..... Romans 1:18
...the heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the Day of judgement and the destruction of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:7
Why is my premise of the Lord using a CME so abhorrent to you? Didn't Jesus stop His quote in Luke 4:18-19, just before 'a Day of vengeance of our God'... Isaiah 61:2b, so that is likely His next action.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Where, exactly does your expectation of going to heaven come from?

I told you; didn't you read it?

No one has ever gone to heaven, except the One who came from heaven.... John 3:13

No scripture actually says anyone goes to heaven. [except the 2 witnesses]

SO! No one had ever gone to Heaven - BUT someone WILL.

John 3:13 doesn't preclude us, as the Great Multitude from standing in front of the Father just as Jesus said He would take us in John 14:2-3.

Good day. This argument is now over.
I would also say that in the context of John 3:13, Jesus is upbraiding Nicodemus between the things of earth He has been speaking about, and decrying Nicodemus' attempt to fathom heavenly things since he has balked at being born again in spirit; and no one has gone into Heaven -- and is able to tell us on earth what transpires in Heaven (with their return of course). The last part does not need to be stated; it goes without saying.

Because to say emphatically that no one has gone into Heaven is to discount Enoch and Elijah who were taken up -- and the "men wondered at" in Zechariah chapter 3 who witness the court proceeding when Jesus meets the Father with Satan accusing after His encounter with Mary in the Garden following His Resurrection.

The 24 Elders in Heaven precede the Great Multitude; they were "captives led in Jesus' train" when He first ascended to the Father following His Resurrection.