The Devil's Lies Must be Exposed - Do Not Be Deceived

[farouk]

Why is Judas not included in Romans 11:29-33. Matthew 27:3-5
[3] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, [4] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that . [5] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

How cold and unmerciful: “What is that to us? see thou to that.”

Solemn, indeed; Judas was 'the son of perdition' (John 17.12).

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Solemn, indeed; Judas was 'the son of perdition'.

He wasn’t the only ‘son of perdition’.

 

[farouk]

He wasn’t the only ‘son of perdition’.

John 17.12 seems to reserve for Judas this solemn title, anyway.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

John 17.12 seems to reserve for Judas this solemn title, anyway.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Are you suggesting the ‘son of perdition’ has been revealed already? In Judas?

 

[farouk]

2 Thessalonians 2:3
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come , except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Are you suggesting the ‘son of perdition’ has been revealed already? In Judas?

You are right about 2 Thess. 2.3.

John 17 does seem to refer to Judas.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Luke 22:3 indicates Judas was not a devil when Jesus chose him.

Luke 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve.

It seems his own selfish thinking and greedy attitude allowed Satan to enter an otherwise "righteous" man that Jesus had chosen and trained for years.

Well, I'm not 100% certain about the righteous part, but it indeed doesn't make much sense for Satan to enter into Judas if he was already a demon, LoL. I've heard there is a hierarchy in Satan's kingdom much like the Caste system in India from which it comes, and that demons of higher castes absolutely loathe those from the castes below them, and will not associate with them except to give orders. Thus, for Satan to enter into some demon flies completely in the face of it (as if we should be taking the argument that seriously to begin with).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why is Judas not included in Romans 11:29-33. Matthew 27:3-5

Victory, Judas could have been included in those promises if he had repented, but he didn't.

 

[Willie T]

All kinds of "righteous" people will condemn the play Jesus Christ Superstar, but I believe the writers may well have pinpointed Judas' mindset when he did what he did. (Not excusing it... just explaining it.) I think many of us (some right here in these threads) do very wrong, while we honestly believe we are doing "right."

 

[Willie T]

Victory, Judas could have been included in those promises if he had repented, but he didn't.

*VictoryInJesus* just showed us in Post #20, that Judas DID repent.

 

[Hidden In Him]

*VictoryInJesus* just showed us in Post #20, that Judas DID repent.

Ahhh... ok. Well see, having incredible regrets is not the same thing as repenting before God. He now realized he had betrayed innocent blood, and quite possibly the Messiah. But true repentance towards the Lord brings the Spirit of God upon the scene, and the Spirit of God does not make people commit suicide. Demonic spirits will and do, but not the Spirit of God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Ahhh... ok. Well see, having incredible regrets is not the same thing as repenting before God. He now realized he had betrayed innocent blood, and quite possibly the Messiah. But true repentance towards the Lord brings the Spirit of God upon the scene, and the Spirit of God does not make people commit suicide. Demonic spirits will and do, but not the Spirit of God.

Peter denied the Lord three times, but he repented. Different matter.

 

[Willie T]

Ahhh... ok. Well see, having incredible regrets is not the same thing as repenting before God. He now realized he had betrayed innocent blood, and quite possibly the Messiah. But true repentance towards the Lord brings the Spirit of God upon the scene, and the Spirit of God does not make people commit suicide. Demonic spirits will and do, but not the Spirit of God.

How much can we play around with the word "repent" in the Bible, giving it different meanings whenever that seems to fit our present ideas?

 

[Willie T]

Didn't Jesus say there was only one unpardonable sin? Did Judas commit that sin?

 

[Hidden In Him]

How much can we play around with the word "repent" in the Bible, giving it different meanings whenever that seems to fit our present ideas?

Well I don't anyway. To me it means the same thing; it's synonymous with making a spiritual conversion, as the etymology is essentially to change after being with someone (metanoéō, from metá, "with" and noiéō, "I think", thus "I think with.") It means that you start to think like God thinks, and it causes a change of heart. I don't think Judas was thinking like God thinks when he determined to kill himself. God would have wanted him to repent like Peter did, and be drawn into right relationship with Him.

 

[Willie T]

I know most of us love the idea of vengeance in the Bible, and we almost pray for our enemies to "get theirs" (though we are told to do just the opposite), and even long for the day we can ride a white horse with Jesus, slaughtering "all those bad people" with a huge sword. And I am afraid we deeply desire to be assured that Judas is burning for all Eternity. But, is that Jesus' way?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Didn't Jesus say there was only one unpardonable sin? Did Judas commit that sin?

No. But He refused to repent. If he had repented of what he did rather than take his life in his own hands, he would have been forgiven. But he didn't do that. He considered himself doomed, which was again faithlessness on his part, just as many of his other actions were, including the betrayal. He thought he was turning in a sinner.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I know most of us love the idea of vengeance in the Bible, and we almost pray for our enemies to "get theirs" (though we are told to do just the opposite), and even long for the day we can ride a white horse with Jesus, slaughtering "all those bad people" with a huge sword. And I am afraid we deeply desire to be assured that Judas is burning for all Eternity. But, is that Jesus" way?

This seems to come up a lot lately, and I don't have any desire to see anyone in torment. But I do desire to see the righteous vindicated, if you can understand what I mean. I don't want judgement to befall anyone, but if they give themselves to killing the righteous and have no regrets over doing so, I do want to see the righteous vindicated on the day of judgment. Otherwise, such people would inhabit Heaven, and hate our guts forever and ever, and seek to do evil against us in other ways even if they could no longer kill us.

 

[Stranger]

Not exactly. Cain was the offspring of Adam and Eve (Gen 4:1).

And Adam knew [had intimate relations with] Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

We need to be careful that while trying to expose the lies of Satan, we ourselves accurately present what is stated in Scripture.

But, Cain was of that wicked one. (1 John 3:12).

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Was Judas an enemy for our sake? If so, would Judas be included in Romans 11:26 “And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:”

Romans 11:29-33
[29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. [30] For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: [31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Yes or no? Would Judas be included in “all Israel”?

The 'all' of Israel who shall be saved are only the believing Jews. They alone comprise the Israel of God.

Judas will not be saved.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I'm wondering where in Scripture it clearly says that Adam was justified by faith. (Hebrews 11 dies speak of the faith of Abel.)

Adam placed faith in (Gen. 3:20) "And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."

Stranger