The Doctrine of Purgatory in Catholic Biblical Perspective

[BreadOfLife]

more man made garbage ..i have no more time for the fleshy post. thus saith the pope

TRANSLATION:
"I have NO refutation for the Biblical truth yo have presented."

That's what I thought . . .

 

[reformed1689]

As for the Church’s God-Given Authority – it isn’t a “man-made” organization – but the Body of Christ, built by Christ himself.

The believer's are the church. Yes. But nowhere does Scripture say believer's have supreme and final authority. Nor does it say believer's speak with infallibility.

Then, why don’t YOU tell us what James is saying in James 2:24 . . .

Well first, you like to harp on out of context, we know it can't mean faith alone doesn't save and that you must have works because that directly contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 which says NOT of works. We also now in James chapter one that this is talking about works being a sign of our faith.

In other words, a mere profession of faith is not enough. There must be evidence for your faith but that doesn't mean it is anything other than the faith itself that saves. It just simply means that true faith is accompanied by evidence of that faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

[/QUOTE]

Name one tenant of the Christian Faith I actually reject. Just one please.

"Tenet" . . .

- Baptismal regeneration
- The Real Presence

These were tenets of the historic Christian faith for about 1500 years befor your Protestant Fathers rebelled.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The believer's are the church. Yes. But nowhere does Scripture say believer's have supreme and final authority. Nor does it say believer's speak with infallibility.

Well first, you like to harp on out of context, we know it can't mean faith alone doesn't save and that you must have works because that directly contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 which says NOT of works. We also now in James chapter one that this is talking about works being a sign of our faith.

In other words, a mere profession of faith is not enough. There must be evidence for your faith but that doesn't mean it is anything other than the faith itself that saves. It just simply means that true faith is accompanied by evidence of that faith.

Then show me a verse that teaches Sola Fide.
It doesn't exist . . .

 

[Ezra]

That's what I thought . .

the exact reason i am longer responding to YOUR THOUGHTS . enjoy dude i am out of here

 

[BreadOfLife]

The believer's are the church. Yes. But nowhere does Scripture say believer's have supreme and final authority. Nor does it say believer's speak with infallibility.

You're absolutely right.
NOWHERE does Scripture say that the entire Body of believers has Supreme Authority.

Jesus was speaking to the LEADERS of His Church when He transferred this power: the power to forgive or retain sin and to bind or loose.
In the Gospel, when Jesus spoke to the crowds, He was instructing ALL of us. When He spoke to His inner circle, He was instructing the leaders of His Church and their successors.

 

[BreadOfLife]

the exact reason i am longer responding to YOUR THOUGHTS . enjoy dude i am out of here

Good - then we won't be interrupted by your childish outbursts.

 

[reformed1689]

Then show me a verse that teaches Sola Fide.
It doesn't exist . . .

John 3:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 3:24
Romans 3:28-30
Romans 4:5
Galatians 2:16

I could keep going....

 

[reformed1689]

- Baptismal regeneration

That is not a tenet found in Scripture.

- The Real Presence

Also not found in Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

John 3:16
Romans 3:22
Romans 3:24
Romans 3:28-30
Romans 4:5
Galatians 2:16

I could keep going....

Not ONE of those verses supports the man-made, 16th century invention of Sola Fide.
The simply extol the importance of believing.

Here's another one about "believing" . . .
James 2:19
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the DEMONS believe—and shudder!

No - BIBLICAL faith is more than just "believing".
This is how the Bible describes true faith . . .
- Being baptized (Matt. 28:19-20, John 3:5, Rom. 2:29, Rom. 6:1-11, Col. 2:12-17, 1 Peter 3:21)
- Picking up our cross daily to follow him (Matt. 16:24, Luke 9:23)
- Works of mercy and charity (Matt. 19:21, 25:31–46, Luke 18:22)
- Obeying his commandments (John 14:15, 15:10)
- Doing the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21, James 1:22)
- Suffering with Christ (Matt. 10:38, 16:24, Mark 8:34, John 12:24, Rom. 8:17, 2 Cor. 1:5-7, Eph. 3:13, Phil. 1:29, 2 Tim. 1:8, 1 Peter 2:19-21, 4:1-2).

Leave simple "belief" to the demons.
True Faith is ACTION . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is not a tenet found in Scripture.
Also not found in Scripture.

You can deny all you want but they're BOTH Scriptural tenets - and I gave you PLENTY of Scripture to support them.

 

[epostle]

I didn't ignore anything. This is a strawman.

Then show some integrity and give the post number after post #1145 that you say you didn't ignore.

If you have read my entire website, which I doubt, you wouldn't say everything I say is consistent with the RCC. I flat out speak against the RCC on the site.

I must have been preoccupied with all the truthful things you wrote, and glossed over it.

What in the world are you talking about?

Sorry, I thought you were some kind of Pentecostal sect. I traced the authors of the CSB which might explain my confusion. Your version of reformist history is biased and one sided. John Tetzel was corrected for selling indulgences, not commissioned. The reason you have no documentation is because it would spoil your agenda. Gee, I thought universities stopped teaching that post-enlightenment crap, because those in higher learning like to protect their credentials and avoid teaching somebody else's propaganda. That might explain why so many Protestant scholars are becoming Catholic. I suggest you go back to Liberty University and demand a refund on your tuition.

You give credit to a priest for denying communion to a pro-abort politician. But you deny us a right you claim for yourself and everybody else:
The right to be heard.

 

[Taken]

And this is a PERFECT example of why you are always losing debates.
You simply don’t pay attention . . .

I never said that only people in Heaven are full of grace.
I said that only those in Heaven are Kecharitomene – which means, “completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace.”
Their endowment of grace IS COMPLETE.

Pay attention to the conversation, come up with a valid refutation of “Kecharitomne” – then get back to me . . .

Your own words.
You described "complete grace".
Then you said in an other post;

ONLY those IN HEAVEN have this kind of endowed grace -

and ONLY Mary is given this description in ALL of Scripture.[/QUOTE]

ONLY "THOSE" in Heaven...
AND
ONLY "Mary".

Wishy Washy.

And now you are implying there is some GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN receiving "COMPLETE Grace and and receiving the FULLNESS of Grace" ?

LOL.

You think everyone is trying to WIN AN ARGUMENT with you, when IN FACT those who bother to keep up with your snarky attitude, deception, and tail-spin doctrine, are wondering if all cradle Catholics Are like you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[reformed1689]

You can deny all you want but they're BOTH Scriptural tenets - and I gave you PLENTY of Scripture to support them.

You gave plenty of out of context scripture interpreted wrongly by Popes and Bishops who often err and contradict one another.

 

[Marymog]

Yes that is certainly what the false teachers of the Catholic Church believe. I have already explained how the RCC is wrong on this.

Hi David,

Let me see if I got this right so I better understand what you are saying. YOU (singular) are able to define what the men (plural) of The Catholic Church got wrong?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Which of course cannot be substantiated. There is no such thing as apostolic succession.

Hi David,

No Apostolic succession?

What about Matthias?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Your own words.
You described "complete grace".
Then you said in an other post;

and ONLY Mary is given this description in ALL of Scripture.

ONLY "THOSE" in Heaven...
AND
ONLY "Mary".

Wishy Washy.

And now you are implying there is some GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN receiving "COMPLETE Grace and and receiving the FULLNESS of Grace" ?

LOL.

You think everyone is trying to WIN AN ARGUMENT with you, when IN FACT those who bother to keep up with your snarky attitude, deception, and tail-spin doctrine, are wondering if all cradle Catholics Are like you.

Glory to God,
Taken

Cherry-picking my posts again?

Ummmmmm, why don’t you post the ENTIRE response?
You won’t because it’ll prove your complete fraudulence.

If you were to post everything I said instead is a tiny snippet – you would see that I was talking about Mary’s status as “Kecharitomene”.
“Completely, perfectly and enduringly endowed with grace.”
THIS is the kind of grace that those in Heaven are endowed with.

Anyway – THANK YOU for proving once again that you have to LIE in order to make your point . . .

 

[reformed1689]

Hi David,

No Apostolic succession?

What about Matthias?

What about him?

 

[reformed1689]

Hi David,

Let me see if I got this right so I better understand what you are saying. YOU (singular) are able to define what the men (plural) of The Catholic Church got wrong?

Curious Mary

Not exactly. But there is a right to challenge the church if the church gets it wrong and goes against Scripture. Scripture trumps the church.

 

[Marymog]

The believer's are the church. Yes. But nowhere does Scripture say believer's have supreme and final authority. Nor does it say believer's speak with infallibility.

Hi David,

Since you do not believe that believers have final authority then you must not believe that the men who canonized our Scripture did not have the final authority on what is Scripture and where fallible in their decision that the 27 books were God breathed?