The Doctrine of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost

[Helen]

Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: "

No more "in and out" ...but forever abiding. Forever a pillar firmly planted.

 

[amadeus]

Okay.. readers.. do note how amadeus and zipzaddle support the OP of that exclusivity within the body of Christ in seeing those who had NOT experienced the baptism with the Holy Ghost by that sign of tongues as nobodies.

This is not how I see it and if you had read with understanding my previous response to you then you would know that. I do not look at anyone as a nobody. For you to say so is a harsh judgment that really is not yours to make.

 

[Helen]

This is not how I see it and if you had read with understanding my previous response to you then you would know that. I do not look at anyone as a nobody. For you to say so is a harsh judgment that really is not yours to make.

Amen to that...he has constantly chosen to put words in your, @Willie T , @Triumph1300 and my mouth that we have no said...

Not one of us has ever said, or agrees that a person is not saved if they don't speak in tongues. Neither have any of us said that a person who does not speak in tongues does not have the Holy Spirit...

But, he is blinkered, and obviously has decided to deceive himself about what we believe or what we said...because it gives him the opportunity to keep on and on harping on about this one subject which totally obsesses him.

Very sad...it is almost a sickness I am beginning to think

 

[rockytopva]

Unable to access the video through your link. Thank you for your post.

I may have rewritten the video. I know too many Pentecostals (I am Pentecostal) who claim to speak in tongues but when you look inside the character you find disturbing things. I try to emphasize a truly spiritual experience, which I believe if you get it in the good way, it is!

 

[rockytopva]

And a shorter, seven minute video...

 

[Triumph1300]

Plus... if it was truly available to all, then all would speak in tongues. So what is wrong with this picture?

Ask the Lord.
Because it's the Lord who told Christians to wait upon the Power from up high.

 

[amadeus]

I may have rewritten the video. I know too many Pentecostals (I am Pentecostal) who claim to speak in tongues but when you look inside the character you find disturbing things. I try to emphasize a truly spiritual experience, which I believe if you get it in the good way, it is!

Amen! We are in agreement!

 

[amadeus]

If you DO NOT agree with & DO NOT support all that OP is saying, then you should not have agreed with nor support that OP, because that OP is referring to a believer of his former life before getting that baptism with the Holy Ghost by that sign of tongues and he was considering himself as a nobody before that moment in an indirect way, and thus indirectly called everybody that had not that experience yet a nobody until they do.

Putting a "like" to a post does not for me, and I know for others here as well, mean that I agree with every point made in that post. Do you think this is a science or mathematics quiz? There really are some gray areas.

 

[Episkopos]

"JesusIsFaithful, post: 433086, member: 6711"]Sorry. The horses are galloping away. Here is why.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

For the way you apply those phrases in scripture to mean a continual filling of the Spirit, then there is no way for you to apply the warning above to your walk in Christ. To preach a continual filling of the Spirit is to preach another Jesus to receive.

I am saying that we go in and out of the Spirit. Paul says for believers to "put on Christ". He also says put on the "new man"...and put on the whole armour of God. This putting ON is different than receiving Christ within. One is within and the other is ON.

This is just basic bible teaching...not some strange doctrine.

Our faith is that Jesus Christ is in us. 2 Corinthians 13:5 That is why we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit Whom we have been sealed unto that day of redemption : Ephesians 4:30 That means Jesus is keeping His promise to be with us always in Matthew 28:20

We may not abide in Him in our walk with Him, but He still abides in us, even in former believers, because He is faithful. 2 Timothy 2:13

That's right. Jesus abides in us...and we seek to abide in Him.

We are always Spirit-filled since we are in this sinful flesh so that we are accountable for what we sow towards; the works of teh flesh or the fruits of the Spirit.

That's not correct. We are to sow to the Spirit so that of the Spirit we reap life in the Spirit. There is no automatic filling. The whole point is for us to learn to go to God...as in a relationship.

To keep on receiving spirits after a sign is after the rudiment of the world as they receives spirits by seeing it as received, but that is not what Jesus said in how we will know the real Holy Spirit and that is by Him dwelling within us forever; John 14:16-17

We are to abide in Him AND He in us. We are to put ON Christ. That's not receiving another spirit...that's receiving more grace.

That is why the apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them 1 John 4:1 as that "He" that is in you is greater than he that is in the world ( 1 John 4:4 ) so that we avoid speaking in supernatural tongues that the world speaks in which is babbling nonsense ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) as oppose to the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) and more importantly, tongues were never to serve as a sign towards the already saved believer for anything ( 1 Corinthians 14:22 )

Plus.. Jesus by His words testify that if the believer has to ask for the Holy Spirit again, it would make the father look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ for salvation.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So yeah... those horses cannot be held as they are racing out of sight over the horizon. Be kind of hard for you guys to NOT believe every spirit when you ARE believing every spirit coming over you to be of God... as if you do not know seducing spirits means exactly that... you are seduced in seeking after them, denying the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost by how Jesus Christ is keeping His promise to be with us always.

I think you are being overly fearful here...Victory over sin is by the Holy Spirit. When we put on Christ...this draws out the life of Christ from within. That is how we are filled with the Spirit.

 

[Triumph1300]

Not one of us has ever said, or agrees that a person is not saved if they don't speak in tongues. Neither have any of us said that a person who does not speak in tongues does not have the Holy Spirit...

True.



Anyhow, some people don't believe that what happened in the book of Acts is also for today.
I have seen many posts on Christian forums about this, and they all look the same,----> copy/paste - copy/paste.
You can post 20.000 posts on this issue, talk till you see blue, and they will not change their mind.
Found that out a long time ago.

As far as I'm concerned Jesus is the same today as He was yesterday.
Praise God for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues!

This was my last post on it.... :)

 

[amadeus]

The verses below is apt towards the OP since William Seymour, the architect of this doctrine, is selling a book for filthy lucre's sake at the expense of the nobodies.

Who are you kidding with such nonsense. William Seymour was a black man who was never allowed to enter most of places we take for granted today. Both of his parents were born slaves.

He died in 1922 a long time before either of us were born and a long time before Martin Luther King worked to get the rights his people were supposed to already have. Seymour never received proper credit for what he did working for God until some 50 years after his death.

"Seymour published, The Doctrines and Discipline of the Azusa Street Apostolic Faith Mission, Los Angeles, California as a guide book for the mission and other churches he led."

That book was published in 1915. Are you really trying to convince anyone that he became a rich man from its sales? There were no rich black preachers/teachers/ministers and probably few if any even white ones in that time period. Most people, of the white majority that is, probably would not touch his book because of who wrote it, much less pay money for it during his remaining lifetime...

 

[Episkopos]

"JesusIsFaithful, post: 433204, member: 6711"]

Putting on Christ is hardly going to run against NOT preaching another Jesus as in another Holy Spirit to receive in scripture and so putting on Christ cannot mean what you say it means.

Putting on Christ is something we enter into..not that enters into us. It is the fulness of grace that causes us to walk like Jesus. You are speaking from your interpretation...how do you know you have the fulness of Christ? What is the evidence?

We are always Spirit-filled since we are in this sinful flesh so that we are accountable for what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit.

To be Spirit filled means it is impossible to do the works of the flesh...because you are already filled. If you take a cup that is filled....can you put something else into it?

Ignoring the promise of the being Spirit-filled at our salvation which is an automatic filling sent from the Father is what you are doing, brother.

To keep on receiving spirits after a sign is after the rudiment of the world as they receives spirits by seeing it as received, but that is not what Jesus said in how we will know the real Holy Spirit and that is by Him dwelling within us forever; John 14:16-17



No. That is called departing from faith and it is hypocrisy to say you know the Holy Spirit is in you and yet you seek to receive Him & Jesus Christ & the Father again.

That is why the apostle John warned believers not to believe every spirit but test them 1 John 4:1 as that "He" that is in you is greater than he that is in the world ( 1 John 4:4 ) so that we avoid speaking in supernatural tongues that the world speaks in which is babbling nonsense ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) as oppose to the real God's gift of tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 ) and more importantly, tongues were never to serve as a sign towards the already saved believer for anything ( 1 Corinthians 14:22 )

Plus.. Jesus by His words testify that if the believer has to ask for the Holy Spirit again, it would make the father look evil as if He did not give the Holy Spirit the first time for knocking at the door of Jesus Christ for salvation.

Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

So yeah... those horses cannot be held as they are racing out of sight over the horizon. Be kind of hard for you guys to NOT believe every spirit when you ARE believing every spirit coming over you to be of God... as if you do not know seducing spirits means exactly that... you are seduced in seeking after them, denying the promise of the forever indwelling Holy Ghost by how Jesus Christ is keeping His promise to be with us always.

That's not how spiritual life works. You have heard the prayer....give us this day our daily bread? Would you refuse bread today because you got it yesterday? Last week? Last year?

You would starve to death.

Is that what you are doing spiritually?

 

[amadeus]

http://azusastreet.org/WilliamJSeymour.htm

"In 1905, Seymour was in Houston, Texas where he heard the Pentecostal message for the first time. He attended a Bible school conducted by Charles F. Parham. Parham was the founder of the Apostolic Faith Movement, and is the father of the modern Pentecostal/Charismatic revival. At a Bible school in Topeka, Kansas, his followers had received a baptism in the Holy Spirit with the biblical evidence of speaking in tongues. (To learn more about Parham and the origins of Pentecost, see The Topeka Outpouring of 1901 available from our online bookstore. Click the title for ordering information.) "

"Bishop Seymour continued to pastor the church until his death. Yet, his work was not limited to Los Angeles. He traveled extensively, establishing churches and preaching the good news. He even wrote and edited a book, The Doctrines and Discipline of the Apostolic Faith Mission to help govern the churches he had helped to birth."

Doesn't matter if he was not a "hit" outside his circle. It was still to his profit and power to govern those churches that bought his books which obviously was sold at those churches.

And then we have this general report to the right of the bing search results at Wikipedia from the link below:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=willian+seymour&pc=MOZI&form=MOZLBR

1897:
Although speaking in tongues was a comparatively new religious phenomenon, first reported in 1897, Parham began to practice glossolalia a few years later and made it a central point of his teaching, believing it to be evidence that a Christian had received the Holy Ghost.

So that became his gospel and it is a false gospel as that, regardless of being the "underdog" as a black person in society.

He is our brother, still, but he has gone astray.

I have read all of those things and more over the years. You still present no apology for falsely accusing a man of writing a book and of selling it for "filthy lucre's sake". You spout what to me is garbage here as you have only a very biased opinion with no personal witness. Bro Seymour and Bro Parham from what I have read worked to move always closer God. You have no real evidence than they did otherwise stronger than your personal bias.

Argue for your beliefs if you will but don't attack men already in their graves. They have their reward one way or the other.

 

[Helen]

I have read all of those things and more over the years. You still present no apology for falsely accusing a man of writing a book and of selling it for "filthy lucre's sake". You spout what to me is garbage here as you have only a very bias opinion with no personal witness. Bro Seymour and Bro Parham from what I have read worked to move always closer God. You have no real evidence than they did no stronger than your person bias.

Argue for your beliefs if you will but don't attack men already in their graves. They have their reward one way or the other.

Amen Amadeus.... Great post...
This thread is just another OLD thread 2013 ...that he has bumped to yet again attack anything " Holy Spirit"... He is so obviously SOOOO terrified.

I think, as we have tried for a few weeks now, to reason with him...and to assure him that we do NOT believe that tongues is the only sign of salvation OR of the baptism ....
We really should ignore his posts .
All the while we keep on answering him, and keep on trying to reason with him...we keep this negative subject going....

He is so obsessive ...we are almost causing it to dominate the Site and threads.

No doubt he will keep on bumping all the OLD Holy Spirit threads so that he has a continual platform for his rants.

I haven't yet hit the REPORT button...but his negativism is dragging me down...I am close to just hitting the Report on him.
And letting the Admins and Mods decide.

 

[amadeus]

Amen Amadeus.... Great post...
This thread is just another OLD thread 2013 ...that he has bumped to yet again attack anything " Holy Spirit"... He is so obviously SOOOO terrified.

I think, as we have tried for a few weeks now, to reason with him...and to assure him that we do NOT believe that tongues is the only sign of salvation OR of the baptism ....
We really should ignore his posts .
All the while we keep on answering him, and keep on trying to reason with him...we keep this negative subject going....

He is so obsessive ...we are almost causing it to dominate the Site and threads.

No doubt he will keep on bumping all the OLD Holy Spirit threads so that he has a continual platform for his rants.

I haven't yet hit the REPORT button...but his negativism is dragging me down...I am close to just hitting the Report on him.
And letting the Admins and Mods decide.

His attacks on me and others here are unfortunately beyond just differences in belief. That hurts but I am able with God's help to handle it. Others here may of course speak for themselves, or not. Attacking those unable to defend themselves with blatant presumptions which favor his own position is to me approaching the limit of my endurance. Still I watch and wait before pushing the report button that I have used, but hate to use. Is that what he wants me to do? Let us pray!

 

[Angelina]

This thread has been cleaned up...

 

[amadeus]

This thread has been cleaned up...

Thank you Angelina! Give God the glory!