The Elect?

[Stranger]

Adam was all his posterity's representative, but I think that's quite the stretch to say it was God who put us there. What vs or vss states God put us in Adam?

Read post #(297).

Stranger

 

[SovereignGrace]

One has to place faith in Christ to get out of Adam and be in Christ. Take it up with God. It's a requirement He has made.

I have already told you. Being in Adam is not a sin. That makes God a sinner because it is God who places you in Adam. Being in Adam means you are a sinner because of Adam.

You're not paying attention. Location means everything. See (Rom. 5:13-14). "For until the law sins was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Did you get it? The sins of the people from Adam to Moses were not imputed to these people. But they still died. Why did they die? Because of Adam's sin. Because they were in Adam. Because of the act of one man.

So, being in Christ means the believer is righteous, not because of his good things he does, but because he is in Christ. Because of the act of one Man.

That is not works. That is pure Grace. Location means everything.

Stranger

Show me one place where there was a time when there was no law? The law is written upon ppl's hearts from conception. When Cain murdered Abel, there was no mentioning of "Thou shalt not kill', yet God held Cain responsible for killing his brother.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Read post #(297).

Stranger

But that does not say God placed us in Adam.

 

[Stranger]

Show me one place where there was a time when there was no law? The law is written upon ppl's hearts from conception. When Cain murdered Abel, there was no mentioning of "Thou shalt not kill', yet God held Cain responsible for killing his brother.

You just read it.

Stranger

 

[SovereignGrace]

You just read it.

Stranger

But there has never been a time there hasn't been a law of God. Yes, there was a time before God gave the Law to Moses and the Jews, but there has always been a law. If there is no law, there is no sin. If there is no sin, there is no punishment.

 

[Stranger]

But that does not say God placed us in Adam.

Foolish statement. If God didn't place you there, who did?

Who placed Levi in Abraham? (Heb. 7:9-10) "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."

Stranger

 

[SovereignGrace]

We are veering off course here...this thread is about the elect.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Foolish statement. If God didn't place you there, who did?

Who placed Levi in Abraham? (Heb. 7:9-10) "And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him."

Stranger

Again, Adam acted as our representative, but that does not mean, or does it say, God placed us in Adam.

Show me where it states God placed us in Adam. Surely its in there if its true.

 

[Stranger]

But there has never been a time there hasn't been a law of God. Yes, there was a time before God gave the Law to Moses and the Jews, but there has always been a law. If there is no law, there is no sin. If there is no sin, there is no punishment.

Your arguing with God, not me. (Rom. 5:13-14)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

We are veering off course here...this thread is about the elect.

If we are, it is you who veered us off. So, you don't want to admit that God placed us in Adam?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Again, Adam acted as our representative, but that does not mean, or does it say, God placed us in Adam.

Show me where it states God placed us in Adam. Surely its in there if its true.

Ive just showed you. If God did not place you in Adam then you are not in Adam. Which means you were not born a sinner. Which means you're on your own.

Was Levi in Abraham? Who placed him there?

Adam is not our representative if we are not in Adam.

Stranger

 

[SovereignGrace]

If we are, it is you who veered us off. So, you don't want to admit that God placed us in Adam?

Stranger

That's not it. Again, where does it state God placed us in Adam? I am not saying you're wrong, as I had honestly thought of it like that. However, I am not saying you're right either.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ive just showed you. If God did not place you in Adam then you are not in Adam. Which means you were not born a sinner. Which means you're on your own.

Was Levi in Abraham? Who placed him there?

Adam is not our representative if we are not in Adam.

Stranger

He was not literally in Abraham's loins. This is talking about through Abraham's lineage. I was not literally in my dad's loins, either.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Ive just showed you. If God did not place you in Adam then you are not in Adam. Which means you were not born a sinner. Which means you're on your own.

Was Levi in Abraham? Who placed him there?

Adam is not our representative if we are not in Adam.

Stranger

I think you are thinking everybody who will ever live was alive at the time Adam was made? We were not literally in Adam, but he acted as our representative, even when we were not there. Just like we were chosen in Christ, but we are not literally in Christ until after we are saved. He, the Christ, acted as our representative, even when we were not there.

 

[Stranger]

He was not literally in Abraham's loins. This is talking about through Abraham's lineage. I was not literally in my dad's loins, either.

That is not true. If Levi was not really in the loins of Abraham then he really didn't pay tithes to Abraham which showed the superiority of the priesthood of Melchisedec over that of Aaron.

This is not about 'lineage'. If it didn't occur, then it means nothing.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I think you are thinking everybody who will ever live was alive at the time Adam was made? We were not literally in Adam, but he acted as our representative, even when we were not there. Just like we were chosen in Christ, but we are not literally in Christ until after we are saved. He, the Christ, acted as our representative, even when we were not there.

You now want to play with words because you refuse to believe what is before you. The whole human race is in Adam. Because it is in Adam, Adam does represent us. If you are not in Christ, Christ does not represent you. God establishes this work with the two Adams for this reason. The human race could fall in one man and so can be redeemed in One Man.

Stranger

 

[SovereignGrace]

That is not true. If Levi was not really in the loins of Abraham then he really didn't pay tithes to Abraham which showed the superiority of the priesthood of Melchisedec over that of Aaron.

This is not about 'lineage'. If it didn't occur, then it means nothing.

Stranger

Again, you were not literally in your dad's loins, neither was Levi literally in Abraham's loins. Each and every person is created at conception. For your belief to be true, all souls were created at the same time Adam was created.

 

[SovereignGrace]

The reason why Levi was in Abraham's loins was due to lineage and also being in the Abrahamic Covenant. Abraham was the head of that covenant. Adam was the head of the Adamic Covenant, David the head of the Davidic Covenant, &c.

 

[bbyrd009]

Show me one place where there was a time when there was no law? The law is written upon ppl's hearts from conception. When Cain murdered Abel, there was no mentioning of "Thou shalt not kill', yet God held Cain responsible for killing his brother.

!

although God did not exactly punish Cain, so much as pronounce his fate, seems to me
God point though

 

[bbyrd009]

Ive just showed you. If God did not place you in Adam then you are not in Adam. Which means you were not born a sinner. Which means you're on your own.

Was Levi in Abraham? Who placed him there?

Adam is not our representative if we are not in Adam.

Stranger

I'm not quite getting why in Adam all die isn't adequate for SG there either, but now I'm kinda wondering as you are so adept in Scripture otherwise, why you don't ever consider these Patriarchs more as like "types" than actual ppl...or do you?