THE END OF THE PREMIL/AMIL DEBATE

[Truth7t7]

Yep, and the beast who beheaded them came around at the beginning of the millennium so that they could reign for an entire symbolic 2,000+ years with Christ. On the other hand, if the beast that beheads them comes around at the close of the millennium they could always live and reign with Christ going backwards in time from the close of the millennium to the beginning of the millennium, if they have a time machine that can take them traveling backwards in time. "Back to the future III".

Makes sense.

The interpretation of (Thousand Years) is stating nothing more than the Lords spiritual realm of no earthly time (One Day Is A Thousand Years) not literal earthly time

You desire to see a literal thousand years on this earth in a Millennial kingdom, that's not seen in scripture, (The Souls) and (The Dead) are in the Lords spiritual and not on this physical earth, it's that simple

If a tribulation saint died one day before the second coming, they enter into this "Non-Literal" thousand year reign

For a believer to be absent from the body is to be immediately present with the Lord, and yes Jesus is reigning presently, on the right hand of the father

 

[Zao is life]

Exactly where God tells all, in the completely new creation as identified below, a new earth, not a new venus, moon, jupiter, but "earth"

Yes the first heaven and earth are passed away, dissolved by fire as clearly shown in 2 Peter 3:10-13, we are to look for this new creation in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 20:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

So after this earth has been dissolved and there is a new earth, will Christ be banned in it? @Truth7t7 Or will He only be permitted to be bodily present in the new heavens but not in the new earth?

 

[Zao is life]

The interpretation of (Thousand Years) is stating nothing more than the Lords spiritual realm of no earthly time (One Day Is A Thousand Years) not literal earthly time

You desire to see a literal thousand years on this earth in a Millennial kingdom, that's not seen in scripture, (The Souls) and (The Dead) are in the Lords spiritual and not on this physical earth, it's that simple

If a tribulation saint died one day before the second coming, they enter into this "Non-Literal" thousand year reign

For a believer to be absent from the body is to be immediately present with the Lord, and yes Jesus is reigning presently, on the right hand of the father

No, as you can see in my OP in this thread, I've moved on along with the Revelation (at least in my understanding) from this earth and into the new heavens and the new earth, and placed the millennium there.

It's you who keeps on placing the millennium in this earth with it's imagined earth time of 1,000 years = (maybe) 2,000+ lunar years or (maybe) 2,000+ solar years, even though the earth is going to be dissolved. But your invention of God's space time or no earth time exists in the spiritual realm, not on this earth.

So how on earth ...?

 

[Truth7t7]

So after this earth has been dissolved and there is a new earth, will Christ be banned in it? @Truth7t7 Or will He only be permitted to be bodily present in the new heavens but not in the new earth?

Your claims are out in left field, as Jesus Christ is "God" the Son, and "God" is present in the New Earth, God himself shall be with them and be their God, Jesus Christ is the Alpha/Omega seen in verse 6 below

Yes the first heaven and earth are passed away, dissolved by fire as clearly shown in 2 Peter 3:10-13, we are to look for this new creation in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 20:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Yes the first heaven and earth are passed away, dissolved by fire as clearly shown in 2 Peter 3:10-13, we are to look for this new creation in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 20:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

No, as you can see in my OP in this thread, I've moved on along with the Revelation (at least in my understanding) from this earth and into the new heavens and the new earth, and placed the millennium there.

It's you who keeps on placing the millennium in this earth with it's imagined earth time of 1,000 years = (maybe) 2,000+ lunar years or (maybe) 2,000+ solar years, even though the earth is going to be dissolved. But your invention of God's space time or no earth time exists in the spiritual realm, not on this earth.

So how on earth ...?

We will disagree, Revelation 20:1-6 pertains to the Lords spiritual realm presently, and will cease at the second coming

Revelation 20:7-9 shows satan is released into the realm of earth, with all things ending in the final judgement Revelation 20:11-15

Its appears you have a hard time understanding (Thousand Years) is nothing more than representing the Lords spiritual realm of no literal time, one day is a thousand years

If a believer were to die presently, they enter this Non-Literal thousand years, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord

 

[Zao is life]

Your claims are out in left field, as Jesus Christ is "God" the Son, and "God" is present in the New Earth, God himself shall be with them and be their God, Jesus Christ is the Alpha/Omega seen in verse 6 below

Yes the first heaven and earth are passed away, dissolved by fire as clearly shown in 2 Peter 3:10-13, we are to look for this new creation in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 20:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Yes the first heaven and earth are passed away, dissolved by fire as clearly shown in 2 Peter 3:10-13, we are to look for this new creation in the New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

Revelation 20:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Right. So He will be with them on earth during the millennium in the New Jerusalem. Well spotted.

 

[Zao is life]

We will disagree, Revelation 20:1-6 pertains to the Lords spiritual realm presently, and will cease at the second coming

Revelation 20:7-9 shows satan is released into the realm of earth, with all things ending in the final judgement Revelation 20:11-15

Its appears you have a hard time understanding (Thousand Years) is nothing more than representing the Lords spiritual realm of no literal time, one day is a thousand years

If a believer were to die presently, they enter this Non-Literal thousand years, to be absent from the body and present with the Lord

Out of this non-literal thousand years which ends with fire and into this non-literal thousand years which ends with fire?

In or out?

PS: Where in the Bible is this space-time that you speak of mentioned?

 

[Truth7t7]

Out of this non-literal thousand years which ends with fire and into this non-literal thousand years which ends with fire?

In or out?

PS: Where in the Bible is this space-time that you speak of mentioned?

At no time did I claim into or out of as you claim

The non literal thousand years is taking place now in the spiritual and ends at the second coming in final judgement by fire

It's the the eternal kingdom, with no fire following as "you claim"

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

John McArthur's views regarding the modern-day state who gave themselves the name "Israel" (but which God does not regard as Israel) and the status of its unbelieving Jews in the Kingdom of God.

So in Romans 11, the scriptures say "all Israel will be saved", you would disregard or change the meaning of the reference to a remnant population of Jews, who are descendants of the bloodlines from twelve tribes _ in the state of Israel _ where Jesus plans on descending to in the neat future and establishing His literal, earthy kingdom?

Like I said, the fact that you brought all that up shows that it's something that exists in your mind,

Pride is a general condition that all ungodly people and still many Christians wrestle with. I was suggesting the possibility that you may be suffering from this as well.. It is not uncommon on these boards if you haven't noticed.
It is evidenced by your response that you are not so humble. Why not just ask people who know you?

It's also noteworthy that you exclude yourself from these things, as though you are above all that - and then in the very next post you paste a link to John McArthur's teaching,

I do include myself. I sometimes become competive, argumentative and will admit suffer a touch of this behavior. But in this, case you are the one who is wrong about your interpretation of practically an entire chapter, Rev. 21.
We pray and the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Sometimes we pridefully think, "I got this Lord" and lean on our own understanding. Or it could be as I mentioned, something you were taught -because I have heard this interpretation before ..."The New Jerusalem is the Bride". It is not, IT IS WHERE THE BRUDE WILL DWELL FOR ETERNITY. Neither is the CHURCH, Israel
That is Replacement Theology.
It is good to do a study, search also what many scholars say about it.
I'm done. God Bless, see you in the New Jerusalem someday ... we'll have a chat.

 

[Truth7t7]

where Jesus plans on descending to in the neat future and establishing His literal, earthy kingdom?

Pride is a general condition that all ungodly people and still many Christians wrestle with. I was suggesting the possibility that you may be suffering from this as well.. It is not uncommon on these boards if you haven't noticed.
It is evidenced by your response that you are not so humble. Why not just ask people who know you?


I do include myself. I sometimes become competive, argumentative and will admit suffer a touch of this behavior. But in this, case you are the one who is wrong about your interpretation of practically an entire chapter, Rev. 21.
We pray and the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth. Sometimes we pridefully think, "I got this Lord" and lean on our own understanding. Or it could be as I mentioned, something you were taught -because I have heard this interpretation before ..."The New Jerusalem is the Bride". It is not, IT IS WHERE THE BRUDE WILL DWELL FOR ETERNITY. Neither is the CHURCH, Israel
That is Replacement Theology.
It is good to do a study, search also what many scholars say about it.
I'm done. God Bless, see you in the New Jerusalem someday ... we'll have a chat.

Your claim Jesus returns and will be physically on this earth in a kingdom, is the very thing he warned his followers about "Beware"!

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

Neither is the CHURCH, Israel That is Replacement Theology.
It is good to do a study, search also what many scholars say about it.
I'm done. God Bless, see you in the New Jerusalem someday ... we'll have a chat.

Ron you are bound by dispensationalism's teachings in (Dual Covenant Theology) in (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church

Ron you can't accept the fact that all the promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ the promised "Seed" not "Seeds" in the ethnic race of Jews, that you in error teach are Gods people based upon racial ethnic heritage

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood upon Calvary, period

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[Zao is life]

Ron you are bound by dispensationalism's teachings in (Dual Covenant Theology) in (Two Peoples Of God) Jew/Church

Ron you can't accept the fact that all the promises made to Abraham have been fulfilled in Jesus Christ the promised "Seed" not "Seeds" in the ethnic race of Jews, that you in error teach are Gods people based upon racial ethnic heritage

There is one covenant between God and man, the shed blood upon Calvary, period

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

We agree on that. I also agree that Christ will not reign on this current earth, but He is the temple in New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and Earth.

 

[Zao is life]

Pride is a general condition that all ungodly people and still many Christians wrestle with. I was suggesting the possibility that you may be suffering from this as well.. It is evidenced by your response that you are not so humble. Why not just ask people who know you?

OK thanks for admitting what your motive was. Takes a big man to be honest about the motive and thoughts of his heart (out of the abundance of the heart etc). Takes a humble man not to go around looking for the beam in his brother's eye. I don't know why, but preferring to play the ball and not the man, I always avoid falling into the trap of looking for a beam in the eye of someone whose interpretations of scripture I don't agree with (like looking for personal issues and deciding this person has a problem). But your 2nd post onward made it obvious that's what you were up to in this thread, your motive not being merely to challenge anything I was saying, but to launch an ad hominem attack against me.

So thanks for at least being honest about your motives.

PS: You don't know the person who you are talking to, but because I also don't know you, so I will refrain from returning the ad hominem attacks and personal accusations.

I'm out of this conversation with you too now.

God bless.

 

[Truth7t7]

We agree on that. I also agree that Christ will not reign on this current earth, but He is the temple in New Jerusalem in the New Heavens and Earth.

We disagree, the New Jerusalem is in the New Heaven and Earth, and the long given description of walls, gates, streets, foundations

To claim this represents Jesus Christ is a bit far fetched, sorta like Preterist claiming the second coming isnt seen in Matthew 24:30

 

[Zao is life]

We disagree, the New Jerusalem is in the New Heaven and Earth, and the long given description of walls, gates, streets, foundations

To claim this represents Jesus Christ is a bit far fetched, sorta like Preterist claiming the second coming isnt seen in Matthew 24:30

OK. So you also believe New Jerusalem is a place, not the bride of Christ who is now the wife of Christ (Revelation 21:2, 9) and not like the church described in Ephesians 2:18-22. It's a literal structure, a literal city with literal walls and literal foundations?

@Truth7t7 PS: I never said New Jerusalem is Christ. I said it's the bride/wife of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

OK. So you also believe New Jerusalem is a place, not the bride of Christ who is now the wife of Christ (Revelation 21:2, 9) and not like the church described in Ephesians 2:18-22. It's a literal structure, a literal city with literal walls and literal foundations?

@Truth7t7 PS: I never said New Jerusalem is Christ. I said it's the bride/wife of Christ.

New Jerusalem descending is prepared as the bride, in significance of the marriage supper in the kingdom

Yes scripture is very clear on a kingdom/city with walls, gates, streets, and foundations, and it's not symbolic of the wife/church

 

[Zao is life]

New Jerusalem descending is prepared as the bride, in significance of the marriage supper in the kingdom

Yes scripture is very clear on a kingdom/city with walls, gates, streets, and foundations, and it's not symbolic of the wife/church

OK so we disagree on that.

 

[Truth7t7]

OK so we disagree on that.

Revelation 22 is a continuation of chapter 21, and it explains Gods throne, the river and tree of life, and verse 14 below clearly tells you that the tree of life is within the gates of "The City"

Your claim this represents the wife/church has been removed?

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 22:14KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation 22 is a continuation of chapter 21, and it explains Gods throne, the river and tree of life, and verse 14 below clearly tells you that the tree of life is within the gates of "The City"

Your claim this represents the wife/church has been removed?

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 22:14KJV
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The tree of Life is Christ. The Water of Life is the Spirit of Christ. (John 1:4; John 4:14; John 6:63).

So the prophets and Jesus used metaphors throughout the Bible but when it comes to the New Jerusalem, suddenly it's all literal?

 

[Truth7t7]

The tree of Life is Christ. The Water of Life is the Spirit of Christ. (John 1:4; John 4:14; John 6:63).

So the prophets and Jesus used metaphors throughout the Bible but when it comes to the New Jerusalem, suddenly it's all literal?

We disagree, the tree bears fruit to eat, and leaves for healing

The parallel teaching is in Ezekiel chapter 47
You have water flowing into the dessert, fish, fishermen, how are you going to symbolize at that seen?

You aren't, because it's tangible water flowing from the throne, with tangible fish, with tangible fishermen and nets

As the tree of life is the same, with tangible fruit to eat for food

Yes Ezekiel 47:12 & Revelation 22:1-2 are parallel teachings of the same place, in the eternal kingdom

Ezekiel 47:8-12KJV
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.