The faithful and the saints: Bringing Calvinism and Arminianism together.

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stunnedbygrace

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You posted a passage, and when I didn't see what you saw, rather than showing what you saw, you threw it back on me, saying, what was it?



Much love!

Well, you don’t see it, so I asked you how YOU would explain the last paragraph. You’re pretty sure of what it absolutely doesn’t show, so what does it show?
 

marks

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Maybe I can only see it yet from where I myself am.
Or maybe you are searching the parable for some deeper meaning behind the meaning of story, something more than what Jesus said it was?

Maybe you will sift through it until you find associations which please you, and ever after you will insist that this is what it means. Maybe you won't. But I've seen the process play out over and over, and every one comes up with something different. The only way people find unity in the Scriptures is the exact opposite of that. We just take in what it says, and believe what it says.

There are deeper meanings, but you'll never have to wonder if you've got it right, because you will realize that it's plainly stated after all, just that you didn't recognize it.

God hides things in plain sight.

"He opened their understanding".

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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You posted a passage, and when I didn't see what you saw, rather than showing what you saw, you threw it back on me, saying, what was it?



Much love!

He was going to be fired for mishandling the masters affairs.
So he forgave the debts of others so they would help him.
The master commended him even though he had mishandled and was dishonest.
He was smarter than the children of light?
He was going to be welcomed into an eternal habitation??
 
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marks

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Well, you don’t see it, so I asked you how YOU would explain the last paragraph. You’re pretty sure of what it absolutely doesn’t show, so what does it show?

I'll come back to this later if you want me to tell you my understanding of the parable, but it's exactly what Jesus said. Adapt it to the wedding, adapt it to the "bride" as you think of her, that's what people do. But I'm going to hold to what the Bible says - not as you repeat so often "what men have taught me", what the Bible teaches me.

What a dismissive and inaccurate throw-down phrase, ". . . what men have taught you."

Like I said to someone earlier, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I can say the same thing . . . "you just see it that way because you can't let go of what men have taught you", and where does that get us?

Much love!
 

marks

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He was going to be fired for mishandling the masters affairs.
So he forgave the debts of others so they would help him.
The master commended him even though he had mishandled and was dishonest.
He was smarter than the children of light?
He was going to be welcomed into an eternal habitation??

Now, how does this relate to the "saints" being separate from the "faithful"? And about the bride choosing the guests, or unworthy guests, what was this supposed to be saying?

:confused:
 

stunnedbygrace

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He was going to be fired for mishandling the masters affairs.
So he forgave the debts of others so they would help him.
The master commended him even though he had mishandled and was dishonest.
He was smarter than the children of light?
He was going to be welcomed into an eternal habitation??

Who is going to help him get into that eternal habitation?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Now, how does this relate to the "saints" being separate from the "faithful"? And about the bride choosing the guests, or unworthy guests, what was this supposed to be saying?

:confused:

dave thinks the ones he helped are the bride, the saints.
I thought it was the righteous he helped.
I’m still working on it.

And here’s another.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And if anyonegives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is My disciple,truly I tell you, he will never lose his reward
 
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marks

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dave thinks the ones he helped are the bride, the saints.
I thought it was the righteous he helped.
I’m still working on it.

And here’s another.
He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
41Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man’s reward. 42And if anyonegives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is My disciple,truly I tell you, he will never lose his reward

You pick some good ones.

I offer the following as food for thought . . .

Matthew 10:5-42 KJV
5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7) And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8) Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9) Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10) Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11) And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12) And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13) And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14) And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15) Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Jesus disciples in that day.


16) Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17) But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18) And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19) But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20) For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Apostolic times.


21) And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The end of the age.


24) The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25) It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26) Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27) What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29) Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30) But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31) Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32) Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33) But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37) He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38) And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39) He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

The great tribulation.


40) He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
41) He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
42) And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

The Sheep/Goats judgement for those who survive the great tribulation.


Each of these portions matches precisely to a time in history regarding Isreal. (past and future).

Much love!
 

marks

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dave thinks the ones he helped are the bride, the saints.
I thought it was the righteous he helped.
I’m still working on it.
It was his customers. That was the story. Not all the details in the story are meant to teach spiritual doctrine, they are meant so that you will understand the story, and having understood the story, to understand the truth being cast alongside (para bolle).

The "unjust judge" does not mean that God is unjust. This manager has vendors and customers, just like I do.

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Oh my gosh…there’s another one…you found another one…I never noted that one yet.
 

stunnedbygrace

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It was his customers. That was the story. Not all the details in the story are meant to teach spiritual doctrine, they are meant so that you will understand the story, and having understood the story, to understand the truth being cast alongside (para bolle).

The "unjust judge" does not mean that God is unjust. This manager has vendors and customers, just like I do.

Much love!

okay. Explain the last paragraph.
 

marks

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Who is going to help him get into that eternal habitation?
According to Jesus in that place, "They", that is, the one's the manage told to change the accounts.

BTW . . . as manager of the shop where I work, I understand this. I have the authority from my employer raise and lower prices, and to make pricing concessions at my own discretion.

Many assume the manager was doing some forbidden thing, but not necessarily. He was certainly letting self-interest affect his decision, but as a manager, that decision would be his to make.

If I thought I was about to be fired, and I was so inclined, I would have the authority to reinvoice customers, releasing obligations in hope they'd return the favor by giving me a job. Actually, to me, both seem like bad business, we can do better than that. Just the same . . .

The children of this age know how to use things to their advantange. We should be so wise.

Much love!
 

marks

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okay. Explain the last paragraph.
About them welcoming you into eternal habitations? I'm thinking that's the part you are asking about?

Not fully sure yet, I have some ideas, but not fully formed. To you this means the bride choosing the guests? Am I still tracking here?

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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About them welcoming you into eternal habitations? I'm thinking that's the part you are asking about?

Not fully sure yet, I have some ideas, but not fully formed. To you this means the bride choosing the guests? Am I still tracking here?

Much love!

No, Dave said it’s the bride, the holy, he helped.
I think it’s the righteous he helped, but I’m trying to figure out why I think that. I think because…they owed a debt…
 

marks

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No, Dave said it’s the bride, the holy, he helped.
I think it’s the righteous he helped, but I’m trying to figure out why I think that. I think because…they owed a debt…
Have fun decoding it. Each will do so differently. As with all the parables. The more details Jesus gave, the more the reader seems to like to match them to things, producing doctrine, and the more unique each person's interpretation will be.

He helped his customers.

Much love!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Have fun decoding it. Each will do so differently. As with all the parables. The more details Jesus gave, the more the reader seems to like to match them to things, producing doctrine, and the more unique each person's interpretation will be.

He helped his customers.

Much love!
Lol. Okay. The parable means: he helped his customers. :p
 

marks

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Lol. Okay. The parable means: he helped his customers. :p
Why do you do that?

That's not at all what I've said.

Anyway, I've got work to do.

Why did one receive a 50% discount, but the other only 20%? Why was the 50% discount on the oil, and the 20% discount on the wheat?

What do the oil and wheat represent? Why did they not owe in silver? These questions and more . . .

Much love!
 
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