The false doctrine of the immortality of the soul.
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Like we will be alive when the living saints and the saints dead in Christ in the grave will be resurrected and raised up to meet Christ in the clouds and go to heaven.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I found the essay by my buddy Palehorse on this:
Many people scan throught the Bible and look for a verse to support a preconceived point such as when it comes to what is a soul, but disregard what the Bible tells them.
Lets begin by taking a look at Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Now, to begin with, I think Christians can examine the verse and agree that Matthew 10:28 does not define what a soul is. While the NT's usage of soul/psuche (Strong's #5590) is an expanded one that covers various symbolic meanings used, however none of the NT references that I'm aware of define what a soul is. That definition is found in the OT.
Now some points on this verse in question:
1) By one saying that this verse possibly indicates that the soul is a seperate, dualistic part of a human, than the verse itself states clearly that the soul is NOT immortal; "destroy both soul and body in hell". That alone tells me that the soul, however we decide to define it, CAN be destroyed - thus it is not immortal.
2) When we look at the various definitions for psuche in the lexicon we find a miriad of possible definitions. How do you decide which one of these definitions fits?
3) When one reads the entire Matthew 10 (particularly starting at 10:16 onward) account we find that Christ is talking to the apostles in regards to their persecution as they are being sent out to spread the Gospel. He tells them how hard it is going to be (such as in 10:9 how they would be poor (no gold, nor silver, nor brass)). He tells them not to fear those that are going to persecute them, that they would be brought before governers and kings (verse 18) by those that would have them persecuted. Basically, what we find is Jesus warning them but at the same time giving them strength to do His work - that is the theme - not fearing men. He is telling them to stay strong, for though men may be able to kill them ONLY God can determine ones salvation.
4) I think the crux of some arguments are going to be "why is body and soul mentioned seperately if they are one and the same?That is a very simple answer; the NT expands the means of words used in the OT. Soul in the NT, as we've seen from the Strong's Lexicon #5590, has various meanings. But you'll notice that virtually every definition (in particularly definition #2) shows traits that are associated with the whole being of a person (their feelings, desires, affections, etc). These are parts of the whole person, not some seperate "essense" as the very last definition (2c) would try to squeeze in. As such, the verse simply means [paraphrase] "do not be afraid of those that can kill you, if you are going to be afraid of anyone be afraid of God, for it is He that can destroy you utterly as it is He that decides your salvation".
I think once we look at the entire body of texts the overwhelming conclusion of what a soul is easily found. According to rules of hermeneutics; we must harmonize less-clear verses with those that are more clear. As such, Gen 2:7 is the clearer verse and it tells us exactly what a soul is.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.
05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'
from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}
AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)
When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.
The Bible tells us what a soul is (which we saw in Gen 2:7) and that only God has immortality at this point (1 Timothy 1:17 & 1 Timothy 6:15-16). Let's see those verses quickly:
1 Timothy 6:15-16 - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
To arrive at the conclusion that souls are somehow immortal would take a lot of scriptural proof, and as far as I know, such scriptures simply do not exist.
Many people scan throught the Bible and look for a verse to support a preconceived point such as when it comes to what is a soul, but disregard what the Bible tells them.
Lets begin by taking a look at Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Now, to begin with, I think Christians can examine the verse and agree that Matthew 10:28 does not define what a soul is. While the NT's usage of soul/psuche (Strong's #5590) is an expanded one that covers various symbolic meanings used, however none of the NT references that I'm aware of define what a soul is. That definition is found in the OT.
Now some points on this verse in question:
1) By one saying that this verse possibly indicates that the soul is a seperate, dualistic part of a human, than the verse itself states clearly that the soul is NOT immortal; "destroy both soul and body in hell". That alone tells me that the soul, however we decide to define it, CAN be destroyed - thus it is not immortal.
2) When we look at the various definitions for psuche in the lexicon we find a miriad of possible definitions. How do you decide which one of these definitions fits?
3) When one reads the entire Matthew 10 (particularly starting at 10:16 onward) account we find that Christ is talking to the apostles in regards to their persecution as they are being sent out to spread the Gospel. He tells them how hard it is going to be (such as in 10:9 how they would be poor (no gold, nor silver, nor brass)). He tells them not to fear those that are going to persecute them, that they would be brought before governers and kings (verse 18) by those that would have them persecuted. Basically, what we find is Jesus warning them but at the same time giving them strength to do His work - that is the theme - not fearing men. He is telling them to stay strong, for though men may be able to kill them ONLY God can determine ones salvation.
4) I think the crux of some arguments are going to be "why is body and soul mentioned seperately if they are one and the same?That is a very simple answer; the NT expands the means of words used in the OT. Soul in the NT, as we've seen from the Strong's Lexicon #5590, has various meanings. But you'll notice that virtually every definition (in particularly definition #2) shows traits that are associated with the whole being of a person (their feelings, desires, affections, etc). These are parts of the whole person, not some seperate "essense" as the very last definition (2c) would try to squeeze in. As such, the verse simply means [paraphrase] "do not be afraid of those that can kill you, if you are going to be afraid of anyone be afraid of God, for it is He that can destroy you utterly as it is He that decides your salvation".
I think once we look at the entire body of texts the overwhelming conclusion of what a soul is easily found. According to rules of hermeneutics; we must harmonize less-clear verses with those that are more clear. As such, Gen 2:7 is the clearer verse and it tells us exactly what a soul is.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.
05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'
from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}
AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)
When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul. This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.
The Bible tells us what a soul is (which we saw in Gen 2:7) and that only God has immortality at this point (1 Timothy 1:17 & 1 Timothy 6:15-16). Let's see those verses quickly:
1 Timothy 6:15-16 - Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
To arrive at the conclusion that souls are somehow immortal would take a lot of scriptural proof, and as far as I know, such scriptures simply do not exist.
....
Now there are many verses in Psalms where David is talking about his enemies seeking him to destroy his soul.
Psalms 40:14 - Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Psalms 35:4 - Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
When we look to the rules of hermeneutics we see that we must interpret the means of obscure passages with those that are clearer. As such, we have a verse that tells what a soul is [Gen 2:7], that only God has immortality [specifically 1 Tim 6:16], that man can in fact destroy a human soul (for that is what David was talking about)[Psalms 40:14 specifically]; in light of this it would seem the clearest interpretation that can be derived is that the Bible teaches body/soul/spirit wholism verses body/soul dualism.
To add a verse to further support the Gen 2:7 verse (for we should never rely on just one verse for any biblical truth) that man is a soul instead of man having a soul;
1 Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
This verse supports Gen 2:7 for 1) it is talking about the same event, the creation of man, and 2) it reaffirms that man was made a living soul - not man was given a living soul.
God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.
Now lets address the Matt 10:28 verse again for a small point that might have been overlooked: Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
This marks a definite separation of body from 'soul.'
To say that the soul does not die or drifts off somewhere when a person dies we'd have to eliminate Gen 2:7 and 1 Corinthians 15:45 from the Bible, which of course we cannot do. Or is there another alternative that will harmonize all of these verses? Yes there is, and the key to that is understanding the definitions of the Greek word psuche, here are the definitions from Strong:
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Now, I must agree with definition 2a due to its agreement in harmonizing all the scriptures in play. I cannot agree with definitions 2b or 2c for those are what we are trying to prove in the first place. Also, using those definitions puts disharmony between the verses in question. You see, as I tried to explain earlier, what Christ was telling the apostles was simple; "don't fear those that can kill you, for they can't take away your reward of salvation no matter what they do, they cannot kill (def 2a) your desires, your affections i.e. what is in your heart; but God can utterly destroy you". The verse was not intended to define what a soul is, as such we must lend more weight to those verses that state outright what a soul is; the word psuche was used in this verse to denote those intangible parts of a human that cannot be harmed by man - the seat of the emotions and intellect.
Now there are many verses in Psalms where David is talking about his enemies seeking him to destroy his soul.
Psalms 40:14 - Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Psalms 35:4 - Let them be confounded and put to shame that seek after my soul: let them be turned back and brought to confusion that devise my hurt.
When we look to the rules of hermeneutics we see that we must interpret the means of obscure passages with those that are clearer. As such, we have a verse that tells what a soul is [Gen 2:7], that only God has immortality [specifically 1 Tim 6:16], that man can in fact destroy a human soul (for that is what David was talking about)[Psalms 40:14 specifically]; in light of this it would seem the clearest interpretation that can be derived is that the Bible teaches body/soul/spirit wholism verses body/soul dualism.
To add a verse to further support the Gen 2:7 verse (for we should never rely on just one verse for any biblical truth) that man is a soul instead of man having a soul;
1 Corinthians 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
This verse supports Gen 2:7 for 1) it is talking about the same event, the creation of man, and 2) it reaffirms that man was made a living soul - not man was given a living soul.
God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.
Now lets address the Matt 10:28 verse again for a small point that might have been overlooked: Matt 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
This marks a definite separation of body from 'soul.'
To say that the soul does not die or drifts off somewhere when a person dies we'd have to eliminate Gen 2:7 and 1 Corinthians 15:45 from the Bible, which of course we cannot do. Or is there another alternative that will harmonize all of these verses? Yes there is, and the key to that is understanding the definitions of the Greek word psuche, here are the definitions from Strong:
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Now, I must agree with definition 2a due to its agreement in harmonizing all the scriptures in play. I cannot agree with definitions 2b or 2c for those are what we are trying to prove in the first place. Also, using those definitions puts disharmony between the verses in question. You see, as I tried to explain earlier, what Christ was telling the apostles was simple; "don't fear those that can kill you, for they can't take away your reward of salvation no matter what they do, they cannot kill (def 2a) your desires, your affections i.e. what is in your heart; but God can utterly destroy you". The verse was not intended to define what a soul is, as such we must lend more weight to those verses that state outright what a soul is; the word psuche was used in this verse to denote those intangible parts of a human that cannot be harmed by man - the seat of the emotions and intellect.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Yes==When Jesus returns raptured believers will be with Him and all dead and alive will receive new immortal bodies! PTL.
Now lets look at the Old Testament and see what it shows..
Ecclesiastes 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?
Psalm 6:2-5
2 Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak: O Lord, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O Lord, how long?
4 Return, O Lord, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.
Psalm 7:1-5
1 O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver.
3 O Lord my God, If I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy
5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.
Psalm 30:1-3
1 I will extol thee, O Lord; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me.
2 O Lord my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.
3 O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is its end. When life ends, it ends.
Psalm 33:18-22
18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord: he is our help and our shield.
21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
22 Let thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.
If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.
Psalm 40:13-14
13 Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me: O Lord, make haste to help me.
14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.
Psalm 49:12-15
12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.
Psalm 56:12-13
12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee.
13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?
Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Ecclesiastes 12:5-7
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?
Psalm 6:2-5
2 Have mercy upon me, O Lord; for I am weak: O Lord, heal me; for my bones are vexed.
3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O Lord, how long?
4 Return, O Lord, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.
5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.
Psalm 7:1-5
1 O Lord my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver.
3 O Lord my God, If I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy
5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.
Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.
Psalm 30:1-3
1 I will extol thee, O Lord; for thou hast lifted me up, and hast not made my foes to rejoice over me.
2 O Lord my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.
3 O Lord, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is its end. When life ends, it ends.
Psalm 33:18-22
18 Behold, the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
20 Our soul waiteth for the Lord: he is our help and our shield.
21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
22 Let thy mercy, O Lord, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.
If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.
Psalm 40:13-14
13 Be pleased, O Lord, to deliver me: O Lord, make haste to help me.
14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.
Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.
Psalm 49:12-15
12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish.
13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah.
14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.
Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.
Psalm 56:12-13
12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee.
13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?
Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Psalm 78:49-51
49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;
51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:
God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.
Psalm 86:1-3
1 Bow down thine ear, O Lord, hear me: for I am poor and needy.
2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.
3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?
Psalm 89:47-48
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.
Psalm 116:9
7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the Lord hath dealt bountifully with thee.
8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.
9 I will walk before the Lord in the land of the living.
Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.
Psalm 119:174-176
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O Lord; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.
Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Isaiah 38:16-19
16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live.
17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.
Isaiah 53:12
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors
A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.
49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.
50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;
51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:
God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.
Psalm 86:1-3
1 Bow down thine ear, O Lord, hear me: for I am poor and needy.
2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee.
3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.
Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?
Psalm 89:47-48
47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.
Psalm 116:9
7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the Lord hath dealt bountifully with thee.
8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling.
9 I will walk before the Lord in the land of the living.
Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.
Psalm 119:174-176
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O Lord; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.
Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.
Isaiah 38:16-19
16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live.
17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.
18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.
Isaiah 53:12
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors
A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.
GISMYS_7
Well-Known Member
Again!! Only the body of believers that have died is in the grave==the spirit is with GOD.
Matthew 16:25-26
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.
Acts 2:27-31
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.
Acts 3:22-23
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.
1 Corinthians 15:45-57
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.
Hebrews 10:38-39
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.
James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.
Acts 2:27-31
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.
Acts 3:22-23
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.
1 Corinthians 15:45-57
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.
Hebrews 10:38-39
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.
James 5:19-20
19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.
Now lets look at some verses that are a bit hard to understand.
John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Now some people look at a verse and say it says we shall never die when they read this verse, we see this with many in John 11:25-26 where Christ says, 'Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.'
I can certainly see where this verse, especially due to the use of the word never, does make it seem that the soul/spirit/something doesn't die. So let's look at this.
Reading through the verse I see some keys;
1) we see Christ saying He is the resurrection (which we all firmly believe) and
2) He talks of those that were dead. Now since we know that Christ is the resurrection (i.e. - He has the power to resurrect us) and He will resurrect those that died who believed in Him. But then Christ says "And"! Of course "and" means "in addition to".
Christ is talking about two groups of believers; in verse 25 He is addressing those that died (the ones He'll raise from the grave), in verse 26 He is addressing those that will be alive when He returns - for they will put on immortality and never die.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You have to read carefully to see there are two different groups being addressed by Christ - and recognizing that puts this verse in perfect harmony with all the other verses
Some other verses which are hard to understand are ones in Revelation so lets address the verses:
Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Many says this leads them to believe in what is termed today as the "immortal soul". But we should bear in mind certain things when reading any prophetic book , it is the highly figurative language being used. For instance, John also saw strange beasts coming out of the sea, a woman riding a ferocious beast, another woman clothed with the sun, etc. There is all kinds of imagery used in Revelation that is symbolic of a greater truth; the souls under the alter is no exception and hardly constitutes a reliable reference in which one should base a doctrine on. The verse in Rev 18 should be questioned on this premise as well. If this verse is to be taken literally then what reason or purpose is there in stuffing martyred souls under an altar? Is this to be taken literally?
John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Now some people look at a verse and say it says we shall never die when they read this verse, we see this with many in John 11:25-26 where Christ says, 'Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.'
I can certainly see where this verse, especially due to the use of the word never, does make it seem that the soul/spirit/something doesn't die. So let's look at this.
Reading through the verse I see some keys;
1) we see Christ saying He is the resurrection (which we all firmly believe) and
2) He talks of those that were dead. Now since we know that Christ is the resurrection (i.e. - He has the power to resurrect us) and He will resurrect those that died who believed in Him. But then Christ says "And"! Of course "and" means "in addition to".
Christ is talking about two groups of believers; in verse 25 He is addressing those that died (the ones He'll raise from the grave), in verse 26 He is addressing those that will be alive when He returns - for they will put on immortality and never die.
1 Corinthians 15:53-54
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
You have to read carefully to see there are two different groups being addressed by Christ - and recognizing that puts this verse in perfect harmony with all the other verses
Some other verses which are hard to understand are ones in Revelation so lets address the verses:
Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Many says this leads them to believe in what is termed today as the "immortal soul". But we should bear in mind certain things when reading any prophetic book , it is the highly figurative language being used. For instance, John also saw strange beasts coming out of the sea, a woman riding a ferocious beast, another woman clothed with the sun, etc. There is all kinds of imagery used in Revelation that is symbolic of a greater truth; the souls under the alter is no exception and hardly constitutes a reliable reference in which one should base a doctrine on. The verse in Rev 18 should be questioned on this premise as well. If this verse is to be taken literally then what reason or purpose is there in stuffing martyred souls under an altar? Is this to be taken literally?
Now lets look more closely at the story of Lazarus in John 11.
1) Jesus is talking about the death of Lazarus. If the soul had gone to heaven or was drifting around somewhere this story would not make sense.
2) Christ says (verse 11) "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth...but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep". When questioned by the disciples it says (verse 14) "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead". As Christ said, Lazarus was dead, utterly and completely dead, and had been dead for 4 days at this point in the chapter. Christ makes no mention as to a "sleeping soul" - Christ makes no differentiation at all in fact.
3) When Christ does eventually raise Lazarus from the tomb (verse 43), Lazarus comes forward in a regular fleshy body - not as a disembodied spirit; for he is still wearing his graveclothes and bound (as the custom of the day was) hand and foot (verse 44).
You see, that is what makes our coming resurrection a true miracle - that Christ performs another act of creation and brings us to life. There is no indication in the Bible that a disembodied soul/spirit returns to reanimate a dead body - the soul IS that dead body.
So the question here is what is a soul, and in light of the direct references (Gen 2:7 and 1 Corinthians 15:45)
we know what a soul is - it is the body. The NT's psuche, is an expanded, and somewhat poetic, description for the untangible parts of a whole person such as the feelings, the desires, etc. These same attributes are also given to the heart and the mind because they help to make up a whole person.
If someone says that any part of Lazarus (or ourselves for that matter) isn't 100% dead when Christ says he is dead and doesn't further qualify His statement, then that means we are falling under the belief of the very first lie ever recorded in the Bible.
Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.
1) Jesus is talking about the death of Lazarus. If the soul had gone to heaven or was drifting around somewhere this story would not make sense.
2) Christ says (verse 11) "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth...but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep". When questioned by the disciples it says (verse 14) "Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead". As Christ said, Lazarus was dead, utterly and completely dead, and had been dead for 4 days at this point in the chapter. Christ makes no mention as to a "sleeping soul" - Christ makes no differentiation at all in fact.
3) When Christ does eventually raise Lazarus from the tomb (verse 43), Lazarus comes forward in a regular fleshy body - not as a disembodied spirit; for he is still wearing his graveclothes and bound (as the custom of the day was) hand and foot (verse 44).
You see, that is what makes our coming resurrection a true miracle - that Christ performs another act of creation and brings us to life. There is no indication in the Bible that a disembodied soul/spirit returns to reanimate a dead body - the soul IS that dead body.
So the question here is what is a soul, and in light of the direct references (Gen 2:7 and 1 Corinthians 15:45)
we know what a soul is - it is the body. The NT's psuche, is an expanded, and somewhat poetic, description for the untangible parts of a whole person such as the feelings, the desires, etc. These same attributes are also given to the heart and the mind because they help to make up a whole person.
If someone says that any part of Lazarus (or ourselves for that matter) isn't 100% dead when Christ says he is dead and doesn't further qualify His statement, then that means we are falling under the belief of the very first lie ever recorded in the Bible.
Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.
Lets take a look and see if the text proves that Paul was looking forward to being a disembodied spirit in heaven.
1 Corinthians 5:1-10
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
The context indicates otherwise. The three possible states to which he refers are: "our earthly house" (verse 1); the "naked" or "unclothed" state (verses 3, 4); "a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (verse 1). The "unclothed" state is, in fact, the intermediate condition between the earthly and heavenly state. In the earthly state the believer has an earthly body. In the heavenly state he will have an immortal, incorruptible body. But in the "naked," or "unclothed" state he will have no body at all because it has gone back to the dust, and the life force has been removed by God. As we have seen above, this life force is not a conscious, immortal entity. Paul was looking forward to the resurrection of the body at the second advent. His focus was not on being a disembodied spirit after death but on being with Christ on the resurrection morning.
There is a fine distinction between the soul and the spirit. The soul, strictly speaking, is a living being. All the animals are living beings, they are living souls. The human, however, additionally has a spirit as well as a body. The confusion can come because when the scriptures are speaking about the human being, soul and spirit are more often than not used interchangeably. When an animal dies, all life ceases. There is nothing left alive. However, when a human dies, only the body ceases to have life, the spirit continues to live, or perhaps I should say the spirit continues to exist. Only God can kill or destroy the spirit of man.
In the resurrection, the body that once existed is not raised. Rather what is raised is not a physical body but rather a "spiritual" body. Unfortunately, we haven't a clue about what that spiritual body really is. We know, according to 1 Corinthians 15, that it is imperishable, that it is glorious, that it is powerful. But we really don't know much more than that. We also know that between the death of the physical body and the resurrection of the spiritual body the spirit is not dead.
Luk 20:34 And Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
Luk 20:35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage,
Luk 20:36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luk 20:37 But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
Luk 20:38 Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him."
Thus, we conclude that there is an intermediate existence, an existing state of being, between the physical dying and the resurrection. We can consider that further if you like. There isn't a lot we can say about the intermediate state, but there is some. The story of the rich man and Lazarus speaks to it. Other passages do also, although not much.
2 Corinthians 5:8 ("Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.") suggests to me that we are conscious while "away from the body and at home with the Lord" -- for otherwise, how could we possibly "rather" that state of affairs in preference to any other?
What are you talking about? I never said anything about already having it of one's self. The whole passage of 1 Corinthians 15 is speaking about the resurrection of the saved. Paul begins that chapter with,
1Co 15:1 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand,
1Co 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
He ends it with,
1Co 15:55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
To understand what happens to the unsaved, you have to look elsewhere.
The part "..However, when a human dies, only the body ceases to have life, the spirit continues to live, or perhaps I should say the spirit continues to exist..." No, only at the resurrection the dead in Christ, like Lazarus are given life and bodily brought out of the grave by Christ. Till then, they are dust. There is nothing that flies around and floats on a cloud somewhere, man just goes to the grave and turns to dust. Both man and animals were created from dust. So, when they die they then return again to dust; just the reverse of creation.
"...for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return." Genesis 3:19
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Paul was looking forward to the resurrection of the body at the second coming, it was what was constant in his teaching. His focus was not on being a disembodied spirit after death but on being with Christ on the resurrection at the end.
1 Corinthians 15:12-23
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Sorry Hobie, but you are wrong.
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Perhaps I will return to post about the intermediate state following physical death and before the resurrection.
I will just make the point here that Lazarus was not resurrected, rather, he was raised from the dead. He did not come back with a spiritual body. Instead Jesus returned life to his physical body.
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