The false doctrines of the Futurist and Preterist interpretation.

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Davy

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But scripture shows us prophecy so we have to understand what its meaning is, so its hard.

If you are one of Christ's disciples, then you will stay in His Word, disciplining yourself, and you will know the truth, and by that the truth will make you free.

John 8:31-32
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
KJV


That means an understanding from Genesis to the end of Revelation. There's actually still unfulfilled Bible prophecy in the Book of Genesis. Yet many will follow men and their doctrines loosely based on God's Word and never come to that level of Truth our Lord Jesus was talking about in John 8.
 

Hobie

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Umm.. Because the Church that Jesus established through His apostles still stands?
Many have called for its demise, and yet she has filled the whole world as prophesied...
And now the devil will have his hour as she follows in the footsteps of her Master's passion... But after crucifixtion... Glory!

Pax!
This has a good explanation of why this church is not the one of Christ or of the apostles, but rather a 'tradition'...
The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian
 
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Willie T

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If my growth in Christ had stagnated, and been stunted at the point of only about the first year or two of becoming a Christian, I too would probably be throwing stones at Preterism. Thank God He led me farther.
 

Philip James

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This has a good explanation of why this church is not the one of Christ or of the apostles, but rather a 'tradition'...
The Roman Catholic "Church" is Not Christian

Hardly. Mostly that is a nasty smear job that brings out the usual canards about the Church.

It has been said that the enemy's greatest achievment has been to convince the world he does not exist..

If that is true, surely his next greatest, is to convince the world that the Church is not the community established by Christ through His apostles...

My dear Hobie, i would urge you to let go of the traditions of men and listen to what the Church truly proclaims...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 

Hobie

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Hardly. Mostly that is a nasty smear job that brings out the usual canards about the Church.

It has been said that the enemy's greatest achievment has been to convince the world he does not exist..

If that is true, surely his next greatest, is to convince the world that the Church is not the community established by Christ through His apostles...

My dear Hobie, i would urge you to let go of the traditions of men and listen to what the Church truly proclaims...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
And yet history shows that the facts are very true of what the church did and the changes it tried to do to cover up, and they have tried hard, but everyone can see it if they just look. Here is a good explanation of Preterism, Historicism, Futurism by Steve Wohlberg

"There are... three major "prophetic schools" of interpretation... - Preterism, Historicism, and Futurism. Each of these schools view the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation differently...

One of the most well-respected Bible Commentators in the history of Christianity was England's well-beloved, E.B. Elliott. In 1862, the 5th edition of his classic four-volume Horae Apocalypticae - A Commentary on the Apocalypse, was published in London. The great Baptist preacher Charles Spurgeon, in his Comments on the Commentaries, considered Elliott's work "the standard."

Volume 4 contains a well-written, thorough, and extremely valuable overview of every major Apocalyptic commentator in the history of Christianity - from the days of John to the mid 1800's - called History of Apocalyptic Interpretation. As a result of his vast research and tremendous historical perspective, Elliott clearly reveals the three major contending schools of prophetic interpretation.

"For, in conclusion, the readers of this Historic Sketch will see that there are but three grand Schemes of Apocalyptic Interpretation that can be considered as standing up face to face against each other... The 1st is that of the Praeterists; respecting the subject of prophecy, except in its two or three last chapters [of Revelation], to the catastrophes of the Jewish nation and old Roman Empire ... which Scheme, originally propounded, as we saw, by the Jesuit Alcasar, and then adopted by Grotius ... by Professor Moses Stuart in the United States of America, and by disciples in the German School in England ...

"The 2nd is the Futurist Scheme; making the whole of the Apocalyptic Prophecy, (excepting perhaps the primary Vision and Letters to the Seven Churches,) to relate to things now future, viz. the things concerning Christ's second Advent: a Scheme first set forth, [as] we saw, by the Jesuit [Francisco] Ribera, at the end of the 16th century; and which in its main principle has been urged alike by Dr. S.R. Maitland, Mr. Burgh, the Oxford Tractator on Antichrist, and others, in our own times and era, not without considerable success ...

"The 3rd is what we may call emphatically the Protestant continuous Historic Scheme of Interpretation; that which regards the Apocalypse as a prefiguration in detail of the chief events affecting the Church and Christendom, whether secular or ecclesiastical, from St. John's time to the consummation: - a Scheme which, in regard of its particular application of the symbols of Babylon and the Beast to Papal Rome and Popedom, was early embraced, as we saw, by the Waldenses, Wickliffites, and Hussites; then adopted with fuller light by the chief [Protestant] reformers, German, Swiss, French and English, of the 16th century; and transmitted downwards uninterruptedly, even to the present time. "It is the last of which [the Protestant Historicist School] which I embrace for my own part with a full and ever strengthening conviction of its truth." Horae, Vol. 4, pps. 562, 563.

Thus Elliott identifies:
1) The Preterist School which sees most of the prophecies being fulfilled in the past in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the pagan Roman Empire;
2) The Futurist School which sees most of the prophecies in Revelation - from chapter 4 onward - as applying to events yet future;...
3) The Historicist School which sees the book of Revelation as largely predictive of actual events to occur throughout the history of Christianty from the time of John until the return of Jesus Christ.

The Historicist School contained the viewpoint of almost all Protestant Reformers from the Reformation into the 19th century. Elliot also shows clearly through historical research that both the Preterist and Futurist schools were definitely put forth by Jesuit scholars in their earnest attempts to divert the unanimous Protestant application of Daniel's "little horn" prophecy and Revelation's "beast" prediction to the rise and work of Papal Rome...."excerpts from End Time Delusions by Steve Wohlberg.
 

Hobie

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If you are one of Christ's disciples, then you will stay in His Word, disciplining yourself, and you will know the truth, and by that the truth will make you free.

John 8:31-32
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, "If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed;
32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
KJV


That means an understanding from Genesis to the end of Revelation. There's actually still unfulfilled Bible prophecy in the Book of Genesis. Yet many will follow men and their doctrines loosely based on God's Word and never come to that level of Truth our Lord Jesus was talking about in John 8.
So then are you a follower of His Commandments He wrote with His own finger:

1 John 2:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 

Davy

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So then are you a follower of His Commandments He wrote with His own finger:

1 John 2:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

I keep His Word. I don't dwell on the traditions of men like many do. And remember like our Lord Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged. So when you try to point the finger at brethren to try and get advantage, there's four more fingers pointing back at yourself. Do you follow His commandments then? Is your flesh made perfect where you no longer sin?
 

Hobie

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I keep His Word. I don't dwell on the traditions of men like many do. And remember like our Lord Jesus said, judge not lest ye be judged. So when you try to point the finger at brethren to try and get advantage, there's four more fingers pointing back at yourself. Do you follow His commandments then? Is your flesh made perfect where you no longer sin?
I am not judging, but what day do the Commandments unflinchingly give as the Sabbath...

Exodus 20:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
 

Davy

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I am not judging, but what day do the Commandments unflinchingly give as the Sabbath...

Exodus 20:8-11 King James Version (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

I am not SDA. We are not held to a certain day to worship. It is every day now if we desire it. The time will come when those who want to do strict sabbath keeping on a certain day will not be able to because of the coming tribulation. Col.2:14-17 apply now.

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
KJV


In Christ's future Kingdom we all will be able to keep the sabbath days as God intended, which is part of those 'shadow of things to come'.
 

Hobie

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I am not SDA. We are not held to a certain day to worship. It is every day now if we desire it. The time will come when those who want to do strict sabbath keeping on a certain day will not be able to because of the coming tribulation. Col.2:14-17 apply now.

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
KJV


In Christ's future Kingdom we all will be able to keep the sabbath days as God intended, which is part of those 'shadow of things to come'.
How do you read this verse looking toward those in Gods Kingdom...


Isaiah 66:22-23

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 

Hobie

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Hardly. Mostly that is a nasty smear job that brings out the usual canards about the Church.

It has been said that the enemy's greatest achievment has been to convince the world he does not exist..

If that is true, surely his next greatest, is to convince the world that the Church is not the community established by Christ through His apostles...

My dear Hobie, i would urge you to let go of the traditions of men and listen to what the Church truly proclaims...

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
But this was a church that persecuted true believers, and burned them at the stake, banned the Bible from the people, and declared the Pope is God on earth and infallible, to say nothing of the Inquisition and its reign of destruction. And it sought to cover up the truth of Gods Word and its prophecy with these false doctrines of Preterism and Futurism which have permeated and corrupted many Christian churches. Now the false idea of dispensationalism sprang from what can only be called a strange origin..

Pope Paul III called the Council of Trent, which met in three sessions between 1545 and
1563, and the Protestants were present during the second meeting.

The Council reaffirmed most of the doctrines disputed by the reformers:
1. Transubstantiation
2. Justification by faith and works
3. The medieval mass
4. The seven sacraments
5. Celibacy
6. Purgatory
7. Indulgences
8. Papal authority to enforce the decrees of the Council, and promised obedience to
the Pope from church officials."

To meet the challenge and exposure of the Papacy as the Antichrist and the Pope as the "son of perdition," the Jesuits were called upon to counter the reformers' teachings and came up with Preterism and Futurism to put it as past or in the future so the Pope would not be identified by the prophecies. The two Jesuit scholars, Alcasar and Ribera, developed the preterist and futurist systems of prophetic interpretation. In the 19th century, it got spread and the Protestant world accepted futurism in order to cease its conflict with Rome.

The prophetic interpretation of futurism was further refined when dispensationalism originated in an "utterance" by means of tongues in a church in England. Most Protestant churches have accepted the futurist dispensationalistic mode of prophetic interpretation, which is the form of interpretation employed in the Scofield Reference Bible. Dispensationalism is a product of futurism and it
teaches that history is divided into seven dispensations.

This study is even more direct..'

Futurism Comes to the United States​

Edward Irving:​

"Edward Irving (1792 - 1834), born in Scotland and a brilliant Presbyterian preacher, became a noted expositor in the British Advent Awakening. At first a historicist in his approach to the prophecies, Irving came to adopt futuristic views." M.L Moser, Jr., An Apologetic of Premillenialism, p. 28.

Unfortunately Irving's divergence from the truth did not end here. Along with his change of position on prophetic interpretation he also incorporated several other fanaticisms into his new theology.

"...He despaired of the church being able to complete her gospel commission by the ordinary means of evangelism and began to believe and preach about the miraculous return of the gifts and power of the early church.

"In 1831 the 'gift of tongues' and other 'prophetic utterances' made their appearance among his followers, first in Scotland among some women and then in London. Irving never detected the imposture and gave credence to these new revelations. Under the influence of these revelations of 'the Holy Ghost' 'by other tongues,' a new aspect was added to the expectation of future antichrist -the rapture of the church before the advent of Christ. The novel origin of this novel theory has embarrassed some of its advocates, and in the face of certain lack of evidence heretofore, the defenders of this novel theory have tried to deny its historical beginning. But the recent discovery in a rare book of Rev. Robert Norton entitled the Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church, published in 1861, establishes the origin of this innovative doctrine beyond all question. Norton was a participant in the Irvingite movement. The idea of a two-stage coming of Christ first came to a Scottish lass, Miss Margaret MacDonald of Port Glasgow, Scotland, while she was in a 'prophetic' trance." M.L. Moser, Jr., An Apologetic of Premillennialism, p.28.(Research was done at Central Baptist College, Conway, AR)

Actually, the trance that Miss MacDonald was under occurred while she was deliriously ill. As pointed out in Arnold Dillimore's book, Forerunner of the Charismatic Movement, Miss MacDonald was a semi-invalid who was prone to be taken away with her feelings,impressions and revelations.

It was through the fervor of a local preacher, McLeod Cambell, the histerical impressions and feelings of Miss MacDonald, and the desire above all reason of Edward Irving for a return of the gifts that the grass roots of the Charismatic movement began in Scotland. It soon spread like wildfire, and through the close association of John Nelson Darby, Irving's movement came to the United States....

The futurist position did not originate with the Plymouth Brethren. Sixteenth-century Roman Catholic commentators had countered Protestant attacks upon the papacy as the Antichrist by insisting that none of the events relating to Antichrist had yet occurred....As has been true so frequently in the history of religious controversy, futurism did not become a real threat to the historists and an attractive alternative prophetic position until accepted by believers. This occurred when Darby, Newton, and the Plymouth Brethren adopted futurism.

"...Darby introduced into discussion at Powerscourt the ideas of a secret Rapture of the church and of a parenthesis in prophetic fulfillment between the sixty-ninth and seventieth week of Daniel (chapter 9). These two concepts constituted the basic tenets of the system of theology since referred as dispensationalism.... Neither Darby nor Newton seems to have become estranged at this time. Darby held an open mind on both of these subjects as late as 1843. (Benjamin Wills) Newton remembered, years later, opposing both positions. Commenting upon Darby's interpretation of the seventy weeks of Daniel, Newton remarked, 'The secret rapture was bad enough, but this (futurism) was worse.'"Ernest R. Standeen, The Roots of Fundamentalism, British and American Millenarianism 1800-1930, pp. 36, 37, 38 (University of Chicago Press - Chicago & London).

Conclusion​

The movement for futurism, the secret rapture and the gift of tongues all developed in the 1830's in the Scottish church, pastored by Edward Irving, by a woman named Miss Margaret McDonald. She gave what was believed, at the time, to be an inspired utterance. She spoke of the visible, open and glorious second coming of Christ. But as the utterance continued, she spoke of another coming of Christ -- a secret and special coming in which those that were truly ready would be raptured. It was John Nelson Darby, a Brethren preacher and a diligent writer of the time in England -- who was largely responsible for introducing this new teaching on a large scale. In the 1850's and 1860's, this theory was introduced into the United States, in a large degree when Cyrus Ingerson Scofield, a strong believer in Darby's teachings, incorporated it into the notes of his Scofield Reference Bible which was published in 1909.

It didn't happen all at once, but through time the Papacy's maneuver to avoid detection as the antichrist power has taken hold of the majority of professed Christians today. Stealthfully she has laid her trap and the world has walked right into it. "Never was there a time in the Church's history when she more needed the barriers which prophecy has erected for her protection. And now when they are so sorely needed, they are not to be found. Futurism has crept into the Protestant Church, and broken down these sacred walls..."H. Grattan Guinness, Romanism and the Reformation From the Standpoint of Prophecy, p. 257 (1887)....
 
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Davy

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How do you read this verse looking toward those in Gods Kingdom...

Isaiah 66:22-23

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
I am NOT... a Futurist, nor a Preterist, nor a Historicist, nor Amill, nor any other ism. You would know that IF... you were truly studied in God's Word instead of relying upon men's seminary traditions.

Your real question ought... to be, how does that Isaiah 66 Scripture relate to what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, and 2 Corinthians 5?

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

2 Cor 5:1-8
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now He That hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
KJV
 

Trekson

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Here is from Wikipedia where I am a author and it is straightforward:

'One of the most influential aspects of the early Protestant historicist paradigm was the assertion that scriptural identifiers of the Antichrist where matched only by the institution of the Papacy. Particular significance and concern were the Papal claims of authority over both the Church, through Apostolic succession, and the State, through the Divine right of Kings. When the Papacy aspires to exercise authority beyond its religious realm into civil affairs, on account of the Papal claim to be the Vicar of Christ, then the institution was fulfilling the more perilous biblical indicators of the Antichrist. Martin Luther wrote this view, which was not novel, into the Smalcald Articles of 1537. It was then widely popularized in the 16th century, via sermons, drama, books, and broadside publication. The alternate methods of prophetic interpretation, Futurism and Preterism were derived from Jesuit writings, whose counter reformation efforts were aimed at opposing this interpretation that the Antichrist was the Papacy or the power of the Roman Catholic Church

Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Thomas, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards, and John Wesley, as well as most Protestants of the 16th–18th centuries, felt that the Early Church had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist. The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy. '

Now in order to counter this view that the papacy was the Antichrist power it the church turned to the Jesuits who were summoned to counter the reformers' teachings, and here two Jesuit scholars stand out in particular. They are Ribera and Alcasar, and they developed the Futurist and Preterist systems of prophetic interpretation.

Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera published a commentary on the book of Revelation which proposed that the bulk of the prophecies would be fulfilled in a brief three-and-one-half-year period at the end of the Christian era. In that short space antichrist (a single individual, according to Ribera) would rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, deny Christ, abolish Christianity, be received by the Jews, pretend to be god, and conquer the world. Thus the Protestant contention that the apocalyptic symbols of antichrist denoted an apostate religious system was countered, and the focus of the prophecies was diverted from the present to the far distant future.

Spanish Jesuit, Luis de Alcazar also published a scholarly work on Revelation, to refute the Protestant Reformation on the Antichrist power. Alcazar's thesis, the opposite of Ribera's, was that all the prophecies of Revelation had been fulfilled in the past, that is, by the fifth and sixth centuries A.D., the early centuries of Christianity. He asserted that this prophetic book simply described a two-fold war by the church-its victory over the Jewish synagogue on the one hand (chaps. 1-11) and Roman paganism on the other (chaps. 12-19). Chapters 21, 22 Alcazar applied to the Roman Catholic Church as the New Jerusalem, glorious and triumphant. His writings were developed into a system of interpretation known as preterism.

Over time these specific systems of counter interpretations of the Antichrist spread and began to penetrate Protestant thought. Preterism was the first; it began to enter Protestantism in the late eighteenth century. Preterist interpretations of the prophecies have today become the standard view of liberal Protestantism.

The ideas of futurism, although refuted at first, eventually spread into Protestantism during the nineteenth century. Futurism, is currently followed in some form by most conservative Protestant bodies. Thus both spectrum of the Protestant denominations has picked up this counter reformation view set about to change the views of the papacy as the Antichrist power that was from the Reformers.

The false doctrine as you can see, basically are to put aside the Reformers view of the Antichrist. Preterist interpretation puts all prophecy pertaining to the Antichrist into the past so it is long gone, and the Futurist interpretation puts them into the future so the papacy could claim it was not this power.
Futurism has been the biblical standard since the first prophecy of Gen. 3:15 that took 4000 yrs. to fulfill.
 

Hobie

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If my growth in Christ had stagnated, and been stunted at the point of only about the first year or two of becoming a Christian, I too would probably be throwing stones at Preterism. Thank God He led me farther.
And when its purpose is plainly to hide the truth of the matter, do you continue on that path..
"At the time of the Counter-Reformation, the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar wrote a prominent preterist exposition of prophecy.[3][page needed][4] Moses Stuart noted in 1845 that Alcasar's preterist interpretation advantaged the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[5] and Kenneth Newport in an eschatological commentary in 2000 described preterism as a Catholic defense against the Protestant historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.[6]

Due to resistance from Protestant historicists, the preterist view was slow to gain acceptance outside the Roman Catholic Church"
 
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Davy

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And when its purpose is plainly to hide the truth of the matter, do you continue on that path..
"At the time of the Counter-Reformation, the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar wrote a prominent preterist exposition of prophecy.[3][page needed][4] Moses Stuart noted in 1845 that Alcasar's preterist interpretation advantaged the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[5] and Kenneth Newport in an eschatological commentary in 2000 described preterism as a Catholic defense against the Protestant historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.[6]

Due to resistance from Protestant historicists, the preterist view was slow to gain acceptance outside the Roman Catholic Church"
Infinite loops of men's doctrines, circles upon circles, when all one really need do is open up God's Word in disciplined study and heed it instead of following the 'leaven' doctrines of men. Jesus didn't answer the blind Pharisee's questions with replies like, "well Dr. so-and-so said this, and that school says that, and this man says this... ". Jesus quoted His Word to them, of which they were SUPPOSED to know, but really did not, because they were too busy playing religion with leaven doctrines of men. It's sickening.

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"

12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
KJV
 

Hobie

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Infinite loops of men's doctrines, circles upon circles, when all one really need do is open up God's Word in disciplined study and heed it instead of following the 'leaven' doctrines of men. Jesus didn't answer the blind Pharisee's questions with replies like, "well Dr. so-and-so said this, and that school says that, and this man says this... ". Jesus quoted His Word to them, of which they were SUPPOSED to know, but really did not, because they were too busy playing religion with leaven doctrines of men. It's sickening.

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"

12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
KJV
History is a little different, it has details which can get a bit long, but as they say he who fails to learn from it..
 
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covenantee

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Infinite loops of men's doctrines, circles upon circles, when all one really need do is open up God's Word in disciplined study and heed it instead of following the 'leaven' doctrines of men. Jesus didn't answer the blind Pharisee's questions with replies like, "well Dr. so-and-so said this, and that school says that, and this man says this... ". Jesus quoted His Word to them, of which they were SUPPOSED to know, but really did not, because they were too busy playing religion with leaven doctrines of men. It's sickening.

Matt 16:5-12
5 And when His disciples were come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread.

6 Then Jesus said unto them, "Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees."

7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, "It is because we have taken no bread."

8 Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, "O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?

9 Do ye not yet understand, neither remember the five loaves of the five thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

10 Neither the seven loaves of the four thousand, and how many baskets ye took up?

11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?"

12 Then understood they how that He bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
KJV
Sickening only to those incapable of digesting it.
 

Hobie

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If my growth in Christ had stagnated, and been stunted at the point of only about the first year or two of becoming a Christian, I too would probably be throwing stones at Preterism. Thank God He led me farther.
So the evidence that history shows doesnt make you look to see if you missed something. You have to search and pray and ask God to give you the understanding and wisdom on these things, the devil is quite good along with those helping him at coming up with what sounds like it could be, but just plain deception if you look below the surface.
 

amadeus

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@Hobie and any others on this thread addressing themselves to @Willie T...

Willie T passed away [died physically] a few months after his posts on this thread. Please notice the "Heaven sent Staff Member" notation after his name. This was done in memory of him. I should not expect any responses on his part...
 

Hobie

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Futurism has been the biblical standard since the first prophecy of Gen. 3:15 that took 4000 yrs. to fulfill.
Now, it began right down the timeline given, and the Jesuits came up with this idea to put everything at the end to cover the apostate church identification as the beast and its leader as the antichrist..