The false gospel of grace

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CoreIssue

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You missed the point. The point is that they are perfect. And that their attitude, as those who have been perfected, is that they hold themselves to have room to grow.

Iow, it is the attitude of the perfect that they would have a humble attitude wherein they are unaware of the work that the Lord has done in them, of making them perfect.
You missed the point that while we are to seek to grow in sanctification we never reach perfection on this earth. That we still sin.
 
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justbyfaith

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And when your body is demanding sex even when you're alone.

Thoughts enter your mind and you know it.
I won't say that that has never happened or even that it hasn't happened recently.

However, there is a certain victory that I am experiencing in this area.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

And the perfect day might indeed be just around the corner. I don't think that when it arrives, the Lord will immediately take me home.
 

justbyfaith

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You missed the point that while we are to seek to grow on sanctification we never reach perfection on this earth. That we still sin.
You are making excuses. Man up and repent of the sin that you are defending in your own mind.
 

CoreIssue

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I won't say that that has never happened or even that it hasn't happened recently.

However, there is a certain victory that I am experiencing in this area.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

And the perfect day might indeed be just around the corner. I don't think that when it arrives, the Lord will immediately take me home.
That is called growth.

A success here, a failure there, but overall better than we were before.
 
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tzcho2

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Very likely false teachers of the kind spoken of in Jude 1:3-4.
Why would you cast judgment when you haven't even bothered to looked to see who the Pastor's were? or what they were teaching? that is irresponsible imo. The second video is Pastor John MacArthur , he is not a false teacher.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Why would you cast judgment when you haven't even bothered to looked to see who the Pastor's were? or what they were teaching? that is irresponsible imo. The second video is Pastor John MacArthur , he is not a false teacher.

John MacArthur is one of the best Bible teachers around. All right you guys--it's late. I'm going to bed. Catch up with you tomorrow. ;)
 
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justbyfaith

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Why would you cast judgment when you haven't even bothered to looked to see who the Pastor's were? or what they were teaching? that is irresponsible imo. The second video is Pastor John MacArthur , he is not a false teacher.
Perhaps not generally. But if he is teaching that entire sanctification is a myth, that amounts to grace as a license for sin impaho.

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes by messing with your human idols.
 

justbyfaith

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That is called growth.

A success here, a failure there, but overall better than we were before.

There is the issue of what we grow up into:

Eph 4:12, For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13, Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
 

CoreIssue

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There is the issue of what we grow up into:

Eph 4:12, For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13, Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
But we do not achieve it on this earth.
 
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tzcho2

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Perhaps not generally. But if he is teaching that entire sanctification is a myth, that amounts to grace as a license for sin impaho.

Sorry if I'm stepping on your toes by messing with your human idols.
Actually, you are the one no one should listen to. Pastor John MacArthur on the other hand will be a great blessing to them.
 

justbyfaith

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I am not defending sin. I am saying your claims are false.

Remember the verse I posted about someone refusing to acknowledge they sin.
1 John 1:8?

I would say that you have misinterpreted that verse. It is saying that we all have sin dwelling in our mortal flesh; not that we can never come to a place of real repentance in our lives, wherein we would be set free from the power of sin, as we find is clearly spoken of in 1 John 3:3-9 and so many other passages.
 
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CoreIssue

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1 John 1:8?

I would say that you have misinterpreted that verse. It is saying that we all have sin dwelling in our mortal flesh; not that we can never come to a place of real repentance in our lives, wherein we would be set free from the power of sin, as we find is clearly spoken of in 1 John 3:5-9 and so many other passages.

Being free from the power of sin is not the same thing as never sinning.

If you do not understand that you have a lot of Bible study to do.
1 John 1:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
 
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Earburner

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This is religious nonsense and doublespeak that causes God's ways to be mocked. Just sayin...
And you have not answered my challenge about KJV-Mat. 5:19-20.
How is it that both the "least" and "great" are in the KoH/KoG together?
When answer that truthfully, then you will know that I am not mocker!
 

prism

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"A very good way of testing any view that you may hold is this one: Is this view humbling to me, glorifying to God? If it is, it is probably right. You won’t go far wrong if whatever view you are holding is glorifying to God, humbling to man. But if your view seems to glorify you and to query God, well (there’s no need to argue or to go into details) it’s wrong. It’s a very good universal rule–that! And, my last word of all is, again, a word primarily to preachers–indeed it’s a word to everybody in the sense that if ever you are putting the Gospel to another person, you’ve got a very good test whether you are preaching the Gospel in the right way. What’s that? Well, let me put it like this to you: If your presentation of the Gospel does not expose it to the charge of Antinomianism you are probably not putting it correctly.

What do I mean by that? Just this: The Gospel, you see, comes as this free gift of God–irrespective of what man does. Now, the moment you say a thing like that, you are liable to provoke somebody to say, “Well, if that is so it doesn’t matter what I do.” The Apostle takes up that argument more than once in this great epistle. “What then,” he says at the beginning of chapter 6, “shall we do evil–commit sin–that grace might abound?” He’s just been saying: “where sin abounded grace does much more abound.” “Very well,” says someone. “This is a marvelous doctrine, this ‘Go and get drunk, do what you like the grace of God will put you right.'” Antinomianism.

Now, this doctrine of the Scriptures–this justification by faith only, this free grace of God in salvation–is always exposed to that charge of Antinomianism. Paul was charged with it. He said, “You know, some people say that’s what I’m preaching.” Paul’s preaching was charged with Antinomianism…
So I say, it is a very good test of preaching. You see–what is not evangelical preaching is this: It’s the kind of preaching that says to people, “Now, if you live a good life; if you don’t commit certain sins; and if you do good to others; and if you become a church member and attend regularly and are busy and active you will be a fine Christian and you’ll go to Heaven. That’s the opposite of Evangelical preaching–and it isn’t exposed to the charge of Antinomianism because…it is telling men to save themselves by their good works…And it’s not the Gospel–because the Gospel always exposes itself to this misunderstanding from the standpoint of Antinomianism.

So, let all of us test our preaching, our conversation, our talk to others about the Gospel by that particular test…If you don’t make people say things like that sometimes, if you’re not misunderstood and slanderously reported from the standpoint of Antinomianism it’s because you don’t believe the Gospel truly and you don’t preach it truly." Martyn Lloyd Jones on Romans 3.3
 
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justbyfaith

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Actually, you are the one no one should listen to. Pastor John MacArthur on the other hand will be a great blessing to them.
Unfortunately, the message of holiness is often rejected along with those who teach it; and people heap up to themselves teachers with big names who have the ability to crush the ones who come to you with Bible truth.

I would point out, though I think it will fall on deaf ears (because of the putting on a pedestal of certain teachers in the body of Christ), what it says in 2 Timothy 4:

2Ti 4:1, I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3, For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4, And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Ti 4:5, But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

In other words, when you preach the truth, not everyone is going to believe what you're saying; and many will go to other teachers to tell them differently.

It is sad but true.

Often the multitude follows those who are dropping in things privily that tickle their ears; while those who teach what is faithful are rejected by the common public.

Jesus said,

Mat 7:13, Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I'm actually surprised that @CoreIssue quoted John MacArthur in the first place; because he is a well-known Calvinist and @CoreIssue has come out against that doctrine in the past.

Perhaps idolized above many other teachers in the body of Christ; I would suggest to you that he is not perfect or infallible in his sayings by any means.
 
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justbyfaith

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"A very good way of testing any view that you may hold is this one: Is this view humbling to me, glorifying to God? If it is, it is probably right. You won’t go far wrong if whatever view you are holding is glorifying to God, humbling to man. But if your view seems to glorify you and to query God, well (there’s no need to argue or to go into details) it’s wrong. It’s a very good universal rule–that! And, my last word of all is, again, a word primarily to preachers–indeed it’s a word to everybody in the sense that if ever you are putting the Gospel to another person, you’ve got a very good test whether you are preaching the Gospel in the right way. What’s that? Well, let me put it like this to you: If your presentation of the Gospel does not expose it to the charge of Antinomianism you are probably not putting it correctly.

What do I mean by that? Just this: The Gospel, you see, comes as this free gift of God–irrespective of what man does. Now, the moment you say a thing like that, you are liable to provoke somebody to say, “Well, if that is so it doesn’t matter what I do.” The Apostle takes up that argument more than once in this great epistle. “What then,” he says at the beginning of chapter 6, “shall we do evil–commit sin–that grace might abound?” He’s just been saying: “where sin abounded grace does much more abound.” “Very well,” says someone. “This is a marvelous doctrine, this ‘Go and get drunk, do what you like the grace of God will put you right.'” Antinomianism.

Now, this doctrine of the Scriptures–this justification by faith only, this free grace of God in salvation–is always exposed to that charge of Antinomianism. Paul was charged with it. He said, “You know, some people say that’s what I’m preaching.” Paul’s preaching was charged with Antinomianism…
So I say, it is a very good test of preaching. You see–what is not evangelical preaching is this: It’s the kind of preaching that says to people, “Now, if you live a good life; if you don’t commit certain sins; and if you do good to others; and if you become a church member and attend regularly and are busy and active you will be a fine Christian and you’ll go to Heaven. That’s the opposite of Evangelical preaching–and it isn’t exposed to the charge of Antinomianism because…it is telling men to save themselves by their good works…And it’s not the Gospel–because the Gospel always exposes itself to this misunderstanding from the standpoint of Antinomianism.

So, let all of us test our preaching, our conversation, our talk to others about the Gospel by that particular test…If you don’t make people say things like that sometimes, if you’re not misunderstood and slanderously reported from the standpoint of Antinomianism it’s because you don’t believe the Gospel truly and you don’t preach it truly." Martyn Lloyd Jones on Romns 3.3
The following might even be charged with Antinomianism...though it brings needed balance to the subject.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)
 

justbyfaith

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Being free from the power of sin is not the same thing as never sending.

If you do not understand that you have a lot of Bible study to do.
1 John 1:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Context of the epistle:

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.