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Featured The false gospel of grace

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Hobie, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong. When I found and started to listen to Pastor MacArthur, I had never heard of him. He was a nobody to me.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    To me he has always been a big name that many people look up to.

    I have to admit to being blindsighted by the fact that he was one of the preachers preaching falsely concerning this doctrine. I had never seen him before and did not know what he looked like.

    But apparently the Holy Spirit (and the Father) has orchestrated the circumstances so that it can be clear that, although the man is highly looked up to, he is not right about everything that he says.
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I was simply making a statement of fact.

    I want to make it clear to you that my own entrance into salvation was very much a situation where I called out to the Lord and said, "God be merciful to me a sinner."

    This reality does not change what the Bible says about the work that He does in our hearts after we are saved.

    There are many verses, but I think that I need to quote here only one:

    2Co 5:17, Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
     
  4. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

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    I have respect for John MacArthur & he has proven his ability to preach sound doctrines so , sorry....not interested in your ideas which to me are off. It is really shocking the amount of people on these forums that think the Holy Spirit is leading them in beliefs that is contradictory to the bible.
     
  5. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Are you willing to explore further? Because if my ideas are off, then I want to know about it; and if they are not, then I am willing to show you biblically how they are sound. The truth is not something that will be easily dismantled; it will stand the test when scrutinized. So if you believe that you have it, by all means set it forth and show me how I am wrong in what I believe. I don't believe that my ideas are contradictory to the Bible, as you say. It is possible that your understanding of what the Bible teaches is off-base.
     
  6. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    I think the Paint never dries nor the debate so long as sanctification gets mixed in with justification. They must be kept separate. Lloyd Jones was speaking of our justification in the context of Romans 3...a totally free Gift.
     
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  7. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    In the document in question, it shows how that sanctification comes as the result of free justification.
     
  8. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    That verse says nothing about becoming sinless. Was the Apostle Peter in Christ? I think you would say yes. Yet, the Apostle Paul accuses Peter of hypocrisy (a sin) in Galatians 2:11-14.
     
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  9. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Entire sanctification IN THIS LIFE, is a myth. We will not be entirely sanctified until we go to be in heaven with the Lord or He comes here to fetch us in the Rapture. You are confusing justification with sanctification. Those who are truly in Christ are completely justified--"There is now therefore, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Sanctification is a process that is only completed when a believer goes to be with the Lord Jesus. Does that mean that we are entitled to sin willy-nilly? No. And that has already been dealt with in this thread.

    Here is a bit of wisdom that someone said to me, somewhere along the way: "It isn't how much of the Spirit of Christ we have, that determines our personal holiness. We have all of Him we are ever going to have. What determines our level of holiness, is how much of us, He has!" We will be completely His when we are with Him in heaven.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 8:51 AM
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  10. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Yes, sanctification follows justification AND is a life long process culminating when we are with our Lord.
     
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  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    That is naïve
     
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  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Peter's so-called hypocrisy had to do with the fact that Peter was an apostle to the circumcision and Paul to the uncircumcision. From Paul's perspective, as the apostle to the Gentiles, Peter was compromising the gospel. But from Peter's perspective, he may have only been obeying a principle of scripture, that we ought to bear the infirmities of the weak (Romans 14, Romans 15:1). In the passage mentioned, it becomes clear that Peter and the rest were correct to eat only what was kosher in the presence of those who had qualms of conscience about un-kosher meats. See Romans 14:15, Romans 14:20-21, Romans 15:1. From Paul's perspective as the apostle to the Gentiles, Peter was sinning; because he was sending the message that Gentiles needed to behave as Jews in order to be saved. He was very likely unaware that he was sending that message. So then, Peter was not committing a willful sin in what he did; his sin was unintentional and he very likely believed he was doing the right thing.

    I contend that if anyone is born of God, they will not commit willful sin(s). 1 John 3:3-9, Hebrews 10:26-31.

    It seems to me that you are the one confusing the two. In Hebrews 10:10 and Hebrews 10:14, do you confuse the sanctification spoken of there and take it for justification? I think that you very likely do.

    That is my experience.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 12:00 PM
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I've seen people who have it in their walks.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 12:13 PM
  14. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    You may THINK that they are perfect in their walk but are they? You are teaching heresy.
     
  15. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    It is no heresy. It is biblical doctrine. I can quote to you a plethora of verses that teach it.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    I do not normally teach this; but it may even be a requirement for salvation for all you know.

    I wouldn't put it past the devil to teach God's flock that doctrine that is essential to salvation is heresy.
     
  17. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    You are reading a great deal into the Scripture. The text TELLS us that Peter had been living as a Gentile (Galatians chapter 2, verse 12a), before the Jewish Christians arrived--that he was afraid of being criticized by them after they arrived (12b and 12c). Peter's spiritual weakness was quite obviously cowardice (the basis for his betrayal of Christ outside the house of the High Priest). That tendency to cowardice, as a part of Peter's sin nature, was apparently still in place in the episode Paul recounts in Galatians. But Peter is eventually martyred, so he was near perfection in this life. But only Jesus Christ was morally perfect while in this world--His name is above all names. Martyrdom brings a mortal human being very close to the heart of God. That is why the martyrs are honored above others of God's children.

    Oh nonsense--that is NOT what those passages teach. ALL sin is WILLFUL for those who have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit telling them that some thought or action is sinful. Remember--God has given us a way to escape being tempted beyond which we are able to stand. Even though we pledge ourselves to obey Christ, we fail occasionally and are taken to task by the Holy Spirit. We then repent and are forgiven--(1 John 2:1-2). Your way makes us blind to our own sin because we already think we are perfect. The passages you cite, are speaking about those who take advantage of God's grace and think they can stay in their former life of being imprisoned by sin. That was supposed to have been put behind in the new birth. At the end of 1 John, John tells his readers to stay away from idols (1 John 5:21). Idolatry is a gross violation of God's law, and was a very, very sinful lifestyle. Why would John need to warn them about it, if they had been perfected? He was warning them to avoid returning to their lives of wallowing in the mud of idolatry--not telling them they must be perfect in holiness.


    No--both of those passages are speaking of justification. Hebrews 10:14 even speaks of "those who are being made holy" implying a continuous process (i.e. sanctification) after citing the justification (perfect before the law of God) at the beginning of the passage--made possible by Christ's one sacrifice--for all time.

    Your misinterpretation points to one of the problems with KJV-only. Whenever it is in error, and I believe it errs if it refers to justification (a once-for-all sacrifice that makes us legally perfect) as "sanctification". A sound systematic theology must account for ALL statements in Scripture--even those which appear, at first glance, to be contradictory. We can have full confidence that any "contradictions" will yield to further study. The Scriptures are a perfect reflection of the mind of God (in their original languages). I looked up the Greek and the Greek word for "practice" is used--meaning that one does not fall into habitual sin if one is born from above and has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

    The more one allows the Scriptures to speak into our minds, the more we know that is true. It is improper to form a theology and impose it on the Bible. We must read book, chapter and verse, over and over to become saturated with truths from the mind of God. Humans, because we are simple-minded in comparison to God, must rely on His Spirit to form that body of truth in our minds. Forming a theology and then taking verses out of their contexts as "proof" is sure to mislead.
     
  18. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    "Proof texts" do not make for proof. Only God and His holy angels are perfect in their holiness. The Scriptures very nearly shout that at us. Yes, Jesus calls us higher--always--but He understands if and when we fail--and He forgives. That alone should make us "poor in spirit" (i.e. humble). He did not come for those who already think they are good enough. That's what He said.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 2:33 PM
  19. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    If it were true that these people you cite are perfect in their walk, what need do they have for a Savior? To the contrary, the Scriptures teach that we will ALWAYS need Him.

    Those at the Jerusalem council apparently agreed with Peter that those who were insisting that the Gentiles follow the Law of Moses, were trying to place a yoke upon the Gentiles that neither they nor their ancestors could bear (Acts 15:10). Yes, we have an advantage in the Holy Spirit but why did the writers of the Bible speak of believers who "grieved" the Holy Spirit with their conduct?
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    2Co 7:1, Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

    You are looking at it in the wrong translation...in fact, you have rejected the kjv and heaped up for yourself teachers in the translators of a different version, to tell you what your itching ears want to hear.

    I have already answered this...we cannot walk in freedom from sin apart from abiding in the Saviour. John 15:1-7, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17.

    Yet John also says later that the commandments of the Lord are not burdensome/grievous (1 John 5:3).
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 3:45 PM
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