The false gospel of grace

[H. Richard]

Jesus had a body like ours and was subject to the same temptations as we are. Yet He was without sin. And the free gift of grace is to walk in HIS power and LIFE that is without sin....without any effort...simply by faith. By grace through faith. This is what the bible testifies of. Not a hopeless situation of continual sin in the body.

In Christ we are dead to sin. A person who is born of the Spirit has spiritual faculties that allow him/her to walk as Jesus walked in HIS realm while we are yet in these mortal bodies. In Zion. There is NO sin there.

We have THIS treasure in earthen vessels (bodies). We are vessels. If we are in holiness then we are without any spot or wrinkle of sin. The New Covenant is according to holiness in His presence.

So you are waiting earnestly for a new covenant that is already here. You need only enter into Christ.

No one can enter Christ by what they do. The scriptures also say this. But I see you think you can do it by yourself since YOU have the power.

By the way, flesh and blood can not enter into Christ. Especially by it's own will. Your flesh and blood will never be in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

No one can enter Christ by what they do. The scriptures also say this. But I see you think you can do it by yourself since YOU have the power.

By the way, flesh and blood can not enter into Christ. Especially by it's own will. Your flesh and blood will never be in Christ.

It's by faith, by the Spirit. This is what the New Testament is about....but you are only seeing physical things. You must be born again by the Spirit to see and understand these things.

 

[Albert Finch]

Your post does not seek to completely explain all of the "false gospel of grace" and is, therefore, unuseful only critical.

 

[marks]

And the free gift of grace is to walk in HIS power and LIFE that is without sin....without any effort...simply by faith. By grace through faith. This is what the bible testifies of. Not a hopeless situation of continual sin in the body.

Yes. And the Bible also testifies that we will continue to live in conflict with our flesh so long as it remains corruptible flesh. And as a result the Bible testifies that if we sin we are not to be concerned over it, simply end it, forget about it, and get back to walking in the Spirit.

But any notion that if we sin we are no longer 'In Christ' denies His intercession for us as our High Priest, that He is Always making intercession for us - why? Why do you need an intercessor right now? I know why I do!

Jesus continually intercedes for us, for me. I have no confidence in my ability to recognize everything I do that may be actually outside of faith in God, and so I wouldn't even claim that I never sin even if I thought that was true, because I know that is hubris.

Of course I don't want to sin! It's been pointed out a couple of times that this "Christian Grace Believer who wants to sin" is a straw man - a myth.

Episkopos, I want you to know, that whatever we may disagree over on process or whatever, I'm in absolute agreement with you on this above quote.

I think the realization of this walk in faith comes by understanding what God has done for us, in making us a new creation, holy and righteous, in whom sin does not live.

This is what I think it means that I am as Jesus on this earth, a son of God dwelling in human flesh. In Jesus' case, He is the First born Son of God, and the Unique Son of God in that He was given a newly created body, not corrupted by sin, that body indwelt by the Messenger of YHWH, God who comes to man, if you will.

In our case, we were born of God, Spirit gives birth to spirit, and then new spirit being incarnates in the body of the original man, now the old man. Everything good that is in me is from my Father. What is in old mark is from his father, Adam. So while Jesus occupied uncorrupted flesh, we do not yet have that privilege, because I have to live in old mark's body.

But just the same, this grace in which God saved us, this redemption, our new life, is the freedom to enjoy God while we live our best, knowing all the while He will faithfully complete the work He began. He is faithful, He will do it, and we cannot. We can cooperate with what God is doing, but He is the One working in us. And we should not reject the fruit of Jesus' intercession. In Him we have eternal life, so we should live it.

Much love!
mark

 

[Episkopos]

Your post does not seek to completely explain all of the "false gospel of grace" and is, therefore, unuseful only critical.

Quote
"Every enmity and hostility is gone, and the salesmen of false grace has.. succeeded in reconciling the irreconcilable paths of righteousness and iniquity for you. You're infallible in grace, and forever settled/seated in a Christ who no longer loves righteousness and hates iniquity; whether you sin or not, it makes no difference. It is finished. You're forever saved."

This is another gospel, this is another Jesus, this is the assurance of delusion/destruction and not salvation."

 

[Nancy]

While I completely agree that there are those out there teaching and believing that one can be born again, but go on in a life of sin (which is clearly false), I would caution you calling it "the false gospel of grace". Grace is not false. And the gospel is one of grace. That we can then presume upon God's grace to continue to live in sin, is in error, but grace itself? Wonderful, perfect, necessary! Not false.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Although I do agree with Hobie that His awesome Grace is being abused by the false believers, one can move too far away from His Grace as well. IMHO, if a Christian is sincere, they will learn to hate sin as God Himself does. I think those who abuse God's grace do not read scripture, they just take for Gospel Truth what some talking head is telling them and run with it!

 

[H. Richard]

It's by faith, by the Spirit. This is what the New Testament is about....but you are only seeing physical things. You must be born again by the Spirit to see and understand these things.

And you think you are the only one that sees it, right???? What an ego !!!

Your flesh is physical and you say it no longer sins because it has the power not to sin and is therefore in Christ. Flesh and blood will never be in Christ. Corruptible flesh can not be in Christ

 

[Episkopos]

And you think you are the only one that sees it, right???? What an ego !!!

Your flesh is physical and you say it no longer sins because it has the power not to sin and is therefore in Christ. Flesh and blood will never be in Christ. Corruptible flesh can not be in Christ

You are showing over and over again that you are not getting what spiritual life is. The ego is in your complete confidence that you understand what the bible is actually saying.

What I'm saying...and the bible is saying...is that in Christ is no sin.

...do you get that?


So then if we join Jesus to be IN Him we don't sin either. So then IN Christ we walk as He does. We can't sin and still be IN Christ. To say otherwise is to lie.

If in a car it doesn't rain, but remains dry...that means when I enter into the car I also remain dry.

The hard part is getting into Christ. We must be accepted into the beloved.

Of course we can LABOUR to enter into His rest. (Sounds funny...but there it is!)

Many people will never do this....because they don't believe such a rest is there to enter into.

 

[marks]

The ego is in your complete confidence that you understand what the bible is actually saying.

If being confident in the meaning of Scripture is egotistical, well, I think this applies equally.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

How about quoting some specific statements from anyone who is promoting this kind of gospel nonsense?

It's kind of like when preachers teach from the pulpit that perfect doesn't mean perfect, it means 'mature' or 'complete'.

 

[Enoch111]

So then if we join Jesus to be IN Him we don't sin either. So then IN Christ we walk as He does. We can't sin and still be IN Christ. To say otherwise is to lie.

So you believe that you are sinlessly perfect??? Even Paul did not make that claim. And the apostle John warned Christians not to deceive themselves about this matter.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Enoch111]

It's kind of like when preachers teach from the pulpit that perfect doesn't mean perfect, it means 'mature' or 'complete'.

Perfect can indeed mean (a) mature, (b) complete, and (c) absolutely perfect. It depends on the context. So that is not deception at all. What Christians need to understand is the difference between our STANDING and our STATE.

1, In our standing before God (and in Christ) we are as perfect as Christ.

2. In our state as sinners saved by grace, and not having the sin nature (the flesh) eradicated as yet -- we are far from perfect.

And that is precisely why the apostles taught over and over again that Christians are to walk in the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

 

[Episkopos]

It's kind of like when preachers teach from the pulpit that perfect doesn't mean perfect, it means 'mature' or 'complete'.

Mature or complete in what? In holiness! Holy as God is holy.

So then you don't have the correct scale of perfection. It is far beyond what humans can do in their own strength.

We are to walk as Jesus walked. How? By abiding in Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

So you believe that you are sinlessly perfect??? Even Paul did not make that claim. And the apostle John warned Christians not to deceive themselves about this matter.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

When a person doesn't understand the power of Christ...they always run to the flesh as an excuse to disbelieve...as you are doing.

All have sinned. But not all continue to sin.

Those of us who are truly born again have access to the Lord's grace so as to walk as He walked.

But if you only know the power of the flesh..you can't understand the power of this kind of life.

So I, as anyone who believes, do NOT sin, and cannot sin when I abide in Christ. This is to glory in the Lord. Those who hate the truth are actually glorying in themselves. My testimony is both experiential and biblical...not theoretical.

Can I fly? No, not of myself...but in a plane I can. The same goes for being in Christ. Can I be without
sin? Not of myself. But if I enter into Christ I walk as He walked. Many here testify against the truth because they are yet in their sins.

In Him is NO sin. Many here have NO experience of this Christ. They have a happy believing Jesus that is tickled at being asked to forgive them non-stop...for being carnal.

1 John also says...

1 John 3:16 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

....only they who know Jesus Christ can testify of this overcoming grace.

 

[justbyfaith]

So you believe that you are sinlessly perfect??? Even Paul did not make that claim. And the apostle John warned Christians not to deceive themselves about this matter.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:8-10)

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Heb 10:10, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


1Jo 1:5, This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jo 5:20, And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Eph 5:30, For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31, For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32, This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


1Jo 4:17, Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Understanding that the body of sin = the encapsulation of that which is sinful within us.

And that the body of the sins of the flesh = the encapsulation of that which is sinful within our flesh.

 

[marks]

When a person doesn't understand the power of Christ...they always run to the flesh as an excuse to disbelieve...as you are doing.

All have sinned. But not all continue to sin.

Those of us who are truly born again have access to the Lord's grace so as to walk as He walked.

But if you only know the power of the flesh..you can't understand the power of this kind of life.

So I, as anyone who believes, do NOT sin, and cannot sin when I abide in Christ. This is to glory in the Lord. Those who hate the truth are actually glorying in themselves. My testimony is both experiential and biblical...not theoretical.

Can I fly? No, not of myself...but in a plane I can. The same goes for being in Christ. Can I be without
sin? Not of myself. But if I enter into Christ I walk as He walked. Many here testify against the truth because they are yet in their sins.

In Him is NO sin. Many here have NO experience of this Christ. They have a happy believing Jesus that is tickled at being asked to forgive them non-stop...for being carnal.

1 John also says...

1 John 3:16 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

....only they who know Jesus Christ can testify of this overcoming grace.

So . . . again the question . . . do you sin?

Again . . . this is a serious question.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Perfect can indeed mean (a) mature, (b) complete, and (c) absolutely perfect. It depends on the context. So that is not deception at all. What Christians need to understand is the difference between our STANDING and our STATE.

1, In our standing before God (and in Christ) we are as perfect as Christ.

2. In our state as sinners saved by grace, and not having the sin nature (the flesh) eradicated as yet -- we are far from perfect.

And that is precisely why the apostles taught over and over again that Christians are to walk in the Spirit and not according to the flesh.

Heb 4:13, Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

When God looks at us, He doesn't look at us with rose-colored glasses.

Righteousness is not only imputed when we believe, it is imparted.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[Episkopos]

The purveyors of this false gospel of grace have transformed the gospel into a low calling of Christ.

Anyone with a religious opinion about Jesus is guaranteed of eternal forgiveness for a life of never-ending sin. That's really something to go after...a real narrow way....not.

 

[justbyfaith]

So . . . again the question . . . do you sin?

Again . . . this is a serious question.

Much love!

Answer...God only knows.

1Co 4:4, For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

 

[Episkopos]

It's hard to discuss things with people that hide from the truth and stick to their pride.

How many here want to be seen as being justified as ungodly?...since God justifies the ungodly. So the flesh grasps at this chance for justification. The flesh wants most of all to be justified.

But then it says...all who live GODLY in Christ (not ungodly) will suffer persecution.

So that is to be avoided at all costs. Stick with being ungodly AND justified. Of course there is no such thing as the ungodly IN Christ. That's the position of many here.

But God is not mocked in this way. Don't you think He can see through the flesh?