Job was considered to be perfect by the holy scriptures....until Elihu pointed out that his sin was self-righteousness, in that he justified himself rather than the Lord.
Last edited:
The false gospel of grace
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
If you would just stop with all the self-justification you'd be alright.
The Pharisees were condemned harshly by Jesus just for claiming to see...to understand.
Many Christians do the same and worse. These are asking for the same judgment as they. Their righteousness does not exceed that of the pharisees.
If you remained humble and said...I do not yet know the Lord to the point of walking in His resurrection power.
If you had more respect for the word and had the fear of the Lord...you would be going the right way. But you are following the self-righteous crowd. You are looking for an instant gratification in your religious views...rather than looking to the living God for HIS approval.
The approval of God is to translate you into the kingdom of His dear Son...to walk in the Spirit.
By the Spirit the deeds of the flesh are put to death. There is an overcoming grace. But even if you walk as Jesus...don't justify yourself. Rather say...I am a poor follower of Christ. I'm a slow learner.
If you seek after your own righteousness, that is true, it does not exceed the Pharisees.
It comes to mind, the Pharisees had this same idea.
Hm. They were better than the rest.
Gal. 2:17 But if seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves also have been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Never may it be! For if I build again these things that I had torn down, I prove myself a transgressor.
IN Christ there are no sinners or ungodly. Those who claim to be in Christ and sin are transgressors...not justified.
There are no ungodly in Christ. And nobody abides in a sinful Jesus. Unless they are doing so in their own imaginations and presumptions.
Lord save us from presumptuous sins.
IN Christ there are no sinners or ungodly. Those who claim to be in Christ and sin are transgressors...not justified.
There are no ungodly in Christ. And nobody abides in a sinful Jesus. Unless they are doing so in their own imaginations and presumptions.
Lord save us from presumptuous sins.
My justification is not based on myself but on faith in, and in, the precious blood of Jesus Christ.
Compare Matthew 5:20 to Galatians 2:21 and Luke 18:9-14. My righteousness does not come from law-keeping, but the righteousness of Christ is imputed to me through my taking on the humble attitude of "God, be merciful to me a sinner." And this is the righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees; since Christ's perfection is imputed to me.
Is that what you do?
My righteousness does not come from me...it is the righteousness of Christ imputed to me, and also more and more imparted to me, as time passes.
Not only do I look to the living God for His approval...but I have His approval through simple faith in what Christ has done for me. I do not hold that grace is a license for sin; I believe that it is truly the means of sanctification.
So, you're saying that the proper attitude is to claim accurately that you do not understand?
Therefore, lack of understanding is the key to everything?
I would say that if you are face to face with the Lord Jesus Christ, and say that you can understand everything better than Him, then that is one thing...but if, in seeking Him and His understanding you have come to an understanding of Him and His doctrines, and proclaim to others you have it, this is not sin, if it be the truth that you have an accurate understanding.
Perfect means we are meeting our fullest potential according to our stage of growth. Rosebuds and full blooms can alike be perfect.
But we are also called to be holy, for without holiness we shall not see God. We are made holy by the presence of God in our lives. God is a consuming fire, yet the bush was not consumed, why not? Because it was holy. Like gold tried in the fire, if God is present, it is the sin, the evil habits, the useless and wicked character traits that are consumed.
God is holy. His presence cannot but make us holy also. That is the power of the gospel. That is the gospel of grace. The power of God in the life to sanctify and set us free from sin, purifying the thoughts and cleansing the soul temple from all defilements. Sadly, not all Christians believe this is possible, and thankfully, those Christians who do believe it possible will never admit to its complete accomplishment in their own life... Yet paradoxically, it will only be those with the faith to believe that they can live a life free of sin... That God does have the power to keep us from sinning... Who will enter into God's kingdom.
KJV Hebrews 12
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
KJV Romans 6
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
But we are also called to be holy, for without holiness we shall not see God. We are made holy by the presence of God in our lives. God is a consuming fire, yet the bush was not consumed, why not? Because it was holy. Like gold tried in the fire, if God is present, it is the sin, the evil habits, the useless and wicked character traits that are consumed.
God is holy. His presence cannot but make us holy also. That is the power of the gospel. That is the gospel of grace. The power of God in the life to sanctify and set us free from sin, purifying the thoughts and cleansing the soul temple from all defilements. Sadly, not all Christians believe this is possible, and thankfully, those Christians who do believe it possible will never admit to its complete accomplishment in their own life... Yet paradoxically, it will only be those with the faith to believe that they can live a life free of sin... That God does have the power to keep us from sinning... Who will enter into God's kingdom.
KJV Hebrews 12
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
KJV Romans 6
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Last edited by a moderator:
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Interesting! Early in my Christian walk there was great emphasis on being 'in him' and that any talk of 'him being in us' was marginalised if not altogether ignored, probably because it made certain demands on us....it demanded a rigorous self honesty and an uncompromising love for righteousness.
I have learnt that to sidestep certain scriptures because they inconveniently challenge ones paradigm is not the best move. It limits growth in understanding and polishes pride.
Without humility we stay locked in our limitation to our loss. I see the story of the five foolish virgins illustrating this.....they were also deemed virgins, they also had lamps and were also waiting for the bridegroom.....but they missed the bus
Naomi25
Well-Known Member
- Aug 10, 2016
- 3,199
- 1,801
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Oh yes...we cannot doubt, I think, that too many presume on grace. But I think when grace is truly understood; what is extended and who it is that it is extended to (what sort of wretches we truly are), it should cut us off at our knees. Anyone who can carry on whistling in his sin while 'presuming' upon grace just hasn't understood those two things, I think.
H. Richard
Well-Known Member
No matter how you twist it, you are saying you no longer sin IN THE FLESH. You wish to elevate yourself over the Children of God who KNOW they still sin in the FLESH.
It is the spirit that no longer sins, not your flesh. You, physically, can not be IN CHRIST. Nor can you place your spirit in Christ by what you do.
You said "What I'm saying...and the bible is saying...is that in Christ is no sin. ...do you get that?"
No,. that is not what you are saying. What I, and many others, hear you saying is that your flesh is in Christ and therefore your flesh never sins.
Have a good day.
Talk about twisting. You twist everything I say as you do the scriptures. it's pointless talking to you...so many to ignore...so little time.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Now that I re-read some of these posts...it seems all this is being complicated needlessly. We are both spirit and flesh...we do not ALWAYS walk in the Spirit 24/7...I don't care what one says...we are NOT Jesus! When we walk, live by the Spirit of God, we will NOT sin, period. But, the times we lose the occasional battle WITH the flesh then, we are obviously are NOT walking by the Spirit of God who lives in us to the full.
We will fight the flesh/sin/Satan/the world until we die (physically)...but "He is faithful to complete the work He began in us."
It's all about abiding in Him, IMHO ♥
"Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh". –Gal. 5:17
So, then if you walk in the flesh, you will sin, IMO.
"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. –Rom. 12:2" <--- we are given a new way to think and walk in His Spirit!
That's exactly what we find in Scripture. But I am still waiting for a few to make a bold public declaration that they are SINLESSLY PERFECT as we speak.
We will then have to submit their names to the Pope for canonization. Of course, he will want to know how many miracles they have performed!
Hi @Nancy,
While I find that practically, I do not live according to the Spirit 24/7 myself, I think that theoretically it might be possible to do so for the rest of my life.
If I can walk 100% in the Spirit for the next ten minutes, then I could so so for a day. And if a day, then for a week. And if a week, then for a month. And if a month, then a year is not out of the question. And if a year, a decade is not too far-fetched either. Keep on extending this, and you might even find a consistent walk with the Lord for the rest of eternity, even in this flesh. (of course we will put off these fleshly bodies when the Lord returns. However, I would point out that everyone who has this hope in the Lord purifies himself even as He is pure. This would indicate a working of that which is hoped for in the hoping, which works itself out in the person's life before what is hoped for comes to pass; so that what is hoped for is executed immediately, because of the hope that is there.
While I find that practically, I do not live according to the Spirit 24/7 myself, I think that theoretically it might be possible to do so for the rest of my life.
If I can walk 100% in the Spirit for the next ten minutes, then I could so so for a day. And if a day, then for a week. And if a week, then for a month. And if a month, then a year is not out of the question. And if a year, a decade is not too far-fetched either. Keep on extending this, and you might even find a consistent walk with the Lord for the rest of eternity, even in this flesh. (of course we will put off these fleshly bodies when the Lord returns. However, I would point out that everyone who has this hope in the Lord purifies himself even as He is pure. This would indicate a working of that which is hoped for in the hoping, which works itself out in the person's life before what is hoped for comes to pass; so that what is hoped for is executed immediately, because of the hope that is there.
Last edited:
Evidently there are those who have achieved sinless perfection, since they have been canonized by the Catholic Church.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
I was just kidding, but you are taking the bogus canonizations of the Catholic Church seriously. No man can make a sinner a saint. That is entirely God's prerogative through Christ.
Similar threads
