The First Resurrection

[Spiritual Israelite]

What do you mean by "bodily resurrected".

LOL. What else will be resurrected except for the body? What is dead? The body. Hello? Why are simple things beyond your grasp?

Do you actually think the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught for the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is not a type of body??

The spiritual body is what our natural body will be changed into. It will be incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal (1 Corinthians 15:42-54).

It's obvious the primitive tribal thinking you have about the resurrection.

LOL. Says the guy who asks what I mean by "bodily resurrected".

You think our flesh body is raised from the casket. It is not.

What else will be resurrected and changed into an immortal body? Those who are alive when Jesus returns at the last trumpet will be changed as well. What exactly do you think will be changed, if not our bodies?

Only Lord Jesus' flesh body did not see corruption, and it was at some point quickened to a spirit body, as written in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Peter 3.

That same thing will happen to use when He returns at the last trumpet.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He is still wrong IndianRob, because the "second death", as written in Rev.20, does not occur until after... Jesus' future "thousand years" reign with His elect. Where he is coming from is men's false doctrine called Amillennialism, which rejects any idea of a future literal 1,000 years reign by Christ and His elect.

You are completely incapable of refuting Amillennialism, as you've proven repeatedly, so you're all talk.

 

[David in NJ]

None of that affects the context of Rev 20 being about the first of two groups to resurrect. That is what the first resurrection is, the first group to resurrect. Jesus is not being called the first resurrection in Rev 20.

If you apply the following Rule of the Spirit/Truth, you will have a more clear understanding.

God always Speaks Truth and HE only needs to Say it Once for it to remain Truth.

Because God is rich in Mercy, HE will Speak more then once when HE is emphasizing Truth for us.

God has Spoken more then once on CHRIST HIMSELF being the Resurrection.

The Law of TRUTH is that it is irrevocable when the TRUTH has been determined by GOD to be such.

CHRIST is the Resurrection = Irrevocable TRUTH

CHRIST is the Authority and SOURCE of the First Resurrection = Irrevocable TRUTH

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

 

[ewq1938]

I would like to get your view on what Paul said.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul includes himself in those who would be alive and translated when Jesus comes.

Paul did not know if he would live to see the rapture or not. He didn't.

For his words to be true, either Paul somehow lives until a second coming still in our future, or he meant Jesus would come for him when it was his time to leave this world.

That second reading lines up with what Jesus said, that whoever believes in him will never die.

All believers have died so far, and more die every single day. Clearly Jesus was not talking about the death of the body

 

[IndianaRob]

Paul did not know if he would live to see the rapture or not. He didn't.




All believers have died so far, and more die every single day. Clearly Jesus was not talking about the death of the body

Thank you for answering. Jesus says that believers never die, and Paul gives a second witness to this, explaining how it happens: those of us who are alive and remain won't die, but will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

We're also given two examples of this process in Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were taken without dying.

Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?

 

[ewq1938]

Thank you for answering. Jesus says that believers never die, and Paul gives a second witness to this, explaining how it happens: those of us who are alive and remain won't die, but will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

We're also given two examples of this process in Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were taken without dying.

Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?

The body would have to be alive after the soul/spirit left the body for that to be possible but it is not:


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The body is dead without a spirit but this is also true about the body not having the soul:

Gen 35:16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
Gen 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Here the soul is leaving body at death.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Here we have a dead child whose soul has left the body. After prayer, allows soul to return to child and child comes back to life. The body is dead if the soul is not present.


Isa_53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Again we see that the soul being "poured out" results in a death.
The soul and spirit are linked together. When soul leaves body, spirit goes with it. When spirit leaves body soul leaves with it. When they leave a body, the body is dead. The body cannot be alive without the soul and spirit.

 

[ewq1938]

Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?

Scripture speaks of the saved being killed which means they died.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Pretty clear this also happened to Stephen:

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

 

[IndianaRob]

The body would have to be alive after the soul/spirit left the body for that to be possible but it is not:


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The body is dead without a spirit but this is also true about the body not having the soul:

Gen 35:16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
Gen 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Here the soul is leaving body at death.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Here we have a dead child whose soul has left the body. After prayer, allows soul to return to child and child comes back to life. The body is dead if the soul is not present.


Isa_53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Again we see that the soul being "poured out" results in a death.
The soul and spirit are linked together. When soul leaves body, spirit goes with it. When spirit leaves body soul leaves with it. When they leave a body, the body is dead. The body cannot be alive without the soul and spirit.

The death of the body isn't in question. We agree a body is dead once the soul and spirit have gone. What's in question is whether the soul is still in the body at the moment the moment the body dies, or has already departed. Your verses prove the first point but they don't address the second.