The First Resurrection

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Spiritual Israelite

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What do you mean by "bodily resurrected".
LOL. What else will be resurrected except for the body? What is dead? The body. Hello? Why are simple things beyond your grasp?

Do you actually think the "spiritual body" that Apostle Paul taught for the resurrection in 1 Corinthians 15 is not a type of body??
The spiritual body is what our natural body will be changed into. It will be incorruptible, glorious, powerful and immortal (1 Corinthians 15:42-54).

It's obvious the primitive tribal thinking you have about the resurrection.
LOL. Says the guy who asks what I mean by "bodily resurrected".

You think our flesh body is raised from the casket. It is not.
What else will be resurrected and changed into an immortal body? Those who are alive when Jesus returns at the last trumpet will be changed as well. What exactly do you think will be changed, if not our bodies?

Only Lord Jesus' flesh body did not see corruption, and it was at some point quickened to a spirit body, as written in 1 Cor.15 and 1 Peter 3.
That same thing will happen to use when He returns at the last trumpet.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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He is still wrong IndianRob, because the "second death", as written in Rev.20, does not occur until after... Jesus' future "thousand years" reign with His elect. Where he is coming from is men's false doctrine called Amillennialism, which rejects any idea of a future literal 1,000 years reign by Christ and His elect.
You are completely incapable of refuting Amillennialism, as you've proven repeatedly, so you're all talk.
 
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David in NJ

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None of that affects the context of Rev 20 being about the first of two groups to resurrect. That is what the first resurrection is, the first group to resurrect. Jesus is not being called the first resurrection in Rev 20.
If you apply the following Rule of the Spirit/Truth, you will have a more clear understanding.

God always Speaks Truth and HE only needs to Say it Once for it to remain Truth.

Because God is rich in Mercy, HE will Speak more then once when HE is emphasizing Truth for us.

God has Spoken more then once on CHRIST HIMSELF being the Resurrection.

The Law of TRUTH is that it is irrevocable when the TRUTH has been determined by GOD to be such.

CHRIST is the Resurrection = Irrevocable TRUTH

CHRIST is the Authority and SOURCE of the First Resurrection = Irrevocable TRUTH

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
 

ewq1938

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I would like to get your view on what Paul said.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul includes himself in those who would be alive and translated when Jesus comes.

Paul did not know if he would live to see the rapture or not. He didn't.


For his words to be true, either Paul somehow lives until a second coming still in our future, or he meant Jesus would come for him when it was his time to leave this world.

That second reading lines up with what Jesus said, that whoever believes in him will never die.

All believers have died so far, and more die every single day. Clearly Jesus was not talking about the death of the body
 

IndianaRob

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Paul did not know if he would live to see the rapture or not. He didn't.




All believers have died so far, and more die every single day. Clearly Jesus was not talking about the death of the body
Thank you for answering. Jesus says that believers never die, and Paul gives a second witness to this, explaining how it happens: those of us who are alive and remain won't die, but will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

We're also given two examples of this process in Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were taken without dying.

Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?
 

ewq1938

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Thank you for answering. Jesus says that believers never die, and Paul gives a second witness to this, explaining how it happens: those of us who are alive and remain won't die, but will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

We're also given two examples of this process in Enoch and Elijah, both of whom were taken without dying.

Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?


The body would have to be alive after the soul/spirit left the body for that to be possible but it is not:


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The body is dead without a spirit but this is also true about the body not having the soul:

Gen 35:16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
Gen 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Here the soul is leaving body at death.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Here we have a dead child whose soul has left the body. After prayer, allows soul to return to child and child comes back to life. The body is dead if the soul is not present.


Isa_53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Again we see that the soul being "poured out" results in a death.
The soul and spirit are linked together. When soul leaves body, spirit goes with it. When spirit leaves body soul leaves with it. When they leave a body, the body is dead. The body cannot be alive without the soul and spirit.
 

ewq1938

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Given these four strong witnesses, how can you be so certain that believers are still present in their bodies at the moment the body dies?


Scripture speaks of the saved being killed which means they died.

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Pretty clear this also happened to Stephen:

Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
 

IndianaRob

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The body would have to be alive after the soul/spirit left the body for that to be possible but it is not:


Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The body is dead without a spirit but this is also true about the body not having the soul:

Gen 35:16 And they journeyed from Bethel; and there was but a little way to come to Ephrath: and Rachel travailed, and she had hard labour.
Gen 35:17 And it came to pass, when she was in hard labour, that the midwife said unto her, Fear not; thou shalt have this son also.
Gen 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.
Gen 35:19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem.

Here the soul is leaving body at death.

1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Here we have a dead child whose soul has left the body. After prayer, allows soul to return to child and child comes back to life. The body is dead if the soul is not present.


Isa_53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Again we see that the soul being "poured out" results in a death.
The soul and spirit are linked together. When soul leaves body, spirit goes with it. When spirit leaves body soul leaves with it. When they leave a body, the body is dead. The body cannot be alive without the soul and spirit.
The death of the body isn't in question. We agree a body is dead once the soul and spirit have gone. What's in question is whether the soul is still in the body at the moment the moment the body dies, or has already departed. Your verses prove the first point but they don't address the second.
 

ewq1938

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The death of the body isn't in question. We agree a body is dead once the soul and spirit have gone. What's in question is whether the soul is still in the body at the moment the moment the body dies, or has already departed. Your verses prove the first point but they don't address the second.

I see zero evidence that supports your view.

The bible speaks of some saints as being killed so yes, they experienced what it is to die physically. Stephen was being stoned to death. Why would anyone assume his soul left the body, and the body stayed alive long enough to suffer the effects of being stoned especially when the bible speaks against the idea of the body being alive after the soul has left?

Sure, it would be nice for Stephen and Jesus to have left their bodies and not suffer anymore pain while the body still suffered but I see no evidence for it and see evidence against it.
 

Scott Downey

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James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Clear to understand what it says, IMO

KJ21
It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

ASV
It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

AMP
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh conveys no benefit [it is of no account]. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life [providing eternal life].

AMPC
It is the Spirit Who gives life [He is the Life-giver]; the flesh conveys no benefit whatever [there is no profit in it]. The words (truths) that I have been speaking to you are spirit and life.
 
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Scott Downey

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Matthew 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their dead.”

Romans 8

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so it be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Mortal bodies dead and death, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so it be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
 

Scott Downey

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15 For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ, in those who are saved and in those who perish:

16 to the one we are the savor of death unto death, and to the other the savor of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

17 For we are not as many who corrupt the Word of God; but as out of sincerity, but as from God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
 

Scott Downey

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Jesus so far is the only one resurrected, His is the first resurrection.
That resurrection to life is what all believers will experience in Him, cause their life is hidden with God in Christ, so not fully yet realized.
We are hidden in Him and this is not yet revealed to the world.


You are risen with Christ as part of the first ressurection, which makes perfect sense.
You have passed from death into life when you believed.
Scripture would not say it like this, if it was a lie, If ye then be risen with Christ


If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness which is idolatry.

6 Because of these, the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience,

7 in which ye also once walked, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Do not lie one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him,

11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

12 Therefore, holy and beloved, as the elect of God, put on hearts of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering,

13 forbearing one another and forgiving one another if any man have a quarrel against another: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also ye are called in one body, and be ye thankful.

1 Cor 15 describes it like this
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of those who slept.

21 For since by man came death, by Man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;

23 but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which you also have received, and wherein ye stand,

2 by which ye also are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you— unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received: how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4 and that He was buried, and that He arose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve,

6 and that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some have fallen asleep.

7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.

8 And last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all — yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 and if Christ be not risen, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found to be false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up, if so it be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is Christ not raised;

17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of those who slept.

21 For since by man came death, by Man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;

23 but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

24 Then cometh the end when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, when He shall have put down all rule, and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,

27 for “He hath put all things under His feet.” But when He saith “all things” are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, who did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else, what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I declare by my rejoicing in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is there to me, if the dead rise not? “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

33 Be not deceived: “Evil associations corrupt good manners.”

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, unless it die.

37 And that which thou sowest is not that body which shall be, but bare grain, by chance of wheat or of some other grain.

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead: It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.

43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written: “The first man Adam was made a living soul.” The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.

46 However that which is spiritual was not first, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for ye know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
 

Scott Downey

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Job 33:4
The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

Acts 17
24 God who made the world and all things therein, seeing that He is Lord of Heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands.

25 Neither is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, seeing He giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.

26 And He hath made of one blood all nations of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation,

27 that they should seek the Lord, if perhaps they might feel after Him and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us.

28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as also certain of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’
 

rebuilder 454

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Greetings Spiritual Israelite,

The faithful will be raised from the dead when Jesus returns, as stated above, "afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming" and they will receive immortality and reign with Jesus upon the earth for the 1000 years. This is the first resurrection. The second will be at the end of the 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor
Amen.
At the pretrib rapture.
1 cor 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus already in heaven, as firstfruits, TO HEAVEN.
JESUS GATHERS main harvest pretrib and that includes those resurrected at the rapture.
Good point.
 

rebuilder 454

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Jesus so far is the only one resurrected, His is the first resurrection.
That resurrection to life is what all believers will experience in Him, cause their life is hidden with God in Christ, so not fully yet realized.
We are hidden in Him and this is not yet revealed to the world.


You are risen with Christ as part of the first ressurection, which makes perfect sense.
You have passed from death into life when you believed.
Scripture would not say it like this, if it was a lie, If ye then be risen with Christ


If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God.

2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness which is idolatry.

6 Because of these, the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience,

7 in which ye also once walked, when ye lived in them.

8 But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.

9 Do not lie one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds,

10 and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him,

11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

12 Therefore, holy and beloved, as the elect of God, put on hearts of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering,

13 forbearing one another and forgiving one another if any man have a quarrel against another: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also ye are called in one body, and be ye thankful.

1 Cor 15 describes it like this
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of those who slept.

21 For since by man came death, by Man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;

23 but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which I preached unto you, which you also have received, and wherein ye stand,

2 by which ye also are saved if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you— unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received: how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

4 and that He was buried, and that He arose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve,

6 and that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some have fallen asleep.

7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.

8 And last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all — yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

12 Now if Christ is preached, that He rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 and if Christ be not risen, then our preaching is vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found to be false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up, if so it be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is Christ not raised;

17 and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of those who slept.

21 For since by man came death, by Man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive;

23 but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

24 Then cometh the end when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father, when He shall have put down all rule, and all authority and power.

25 For He must reign until He hath put all enemies under His feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death,

27 for “He hath put all things under His feet.” But when He saith “all things” are put under Him, it is manifest that He is excepted, who did put all things under Him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

29 Else, what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I declare by my rejoicing in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord: I die daily.

32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is there to me, if the dead rise not? “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!”

33 Be not deceived: “Evil associations corrupt good manners.”

34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

35 But some man will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, unless it die.

37 And that which thou sowest is not that body which shall be, but bare grain, by chance of wheat or of some other grain.

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh; but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies and bodies terrestrial; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead: It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.

43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written: “The first man Adam was made a living soul.” The last Adam was made a quickening Spirit.

46 However that which is spiritual was not first, but that which is natural, and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second Man is the Lord from Heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?”

56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!

58 Therefore, my beloved , be ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for ye know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
Yes.
All rapture verses are pretrib setting.
The firstfruits is Jesus along with paradise emptied.
Those in paradise, were resurrected after the gospel was preached to them.
 

Davy

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Amen.
At the pretrib rapture.
1 cor 15
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Jesus already in heaven, as firstfruits, TO HEAVEN.
JESUS GATHERS main harvest pretrib and that includes those resurrected at the rapture.
Good point.

No pre-trib rapture idea is written anywhere in God's Word.
 
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rebuilder 454

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No pre-trib rapture idea is written anywhere in God's Word.
I go by the bible, not your errors and omissions.
The verses I bring to the table are nowhere in your limited partial eschatology.

All rapture verses are pretrib setting

All of them.

None of you can unpack Noah or lot.
None of you can unpack the half taken in mat 24 or 25.
None of you understand the regathering of the Jews in romans 9-11.
None of you understand the Jewish gathering of rev 14;14.

None of you understand what the rapture is.
Instead of understanding it, you guys turn it into a, "tribulation endurance" centering.
In 100% defiance of the AC killing all believers!!!! DURING THE TRIB.
You guys have no answer..NONE...To the innumerable number in Rev.
You defy it, with much "authority "
Look at all your colleagues and yourself, your doctrine is void of looking for Jesus.
In fact, you guys are 100% looking for the antichrist.
Jesus said: "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of man."
(There is not a single postribber that can pray that honestly.)

Your faith is somewhere else.

The Bible ends with, "the spirit and the bride calling out to Jesus. And they say come lord Jesus maranatha.
The parting final words. Such a weight of purpose and heart of heaven.

No postribber has ever gone there. It would be totally fake.
You don't even know of the last parting words of the bible.
No postribber has ever brought it up.
Why?
Like I said....your heart and faith are not in the groom. The groom dynamic is abstract to you.
That is why IT IS MISSING in your doctrine.

*No Jesus.
*No heaven
*No Jews gathered.
*No bride
*No groom
....all of those are missing from your doctrine.
Your deal is an empty wagon of "trib endurance"
All your focus is there...on man....and the tribulation.
A narcissistic man centered fabrication of massive omission. ( trib trib trib trib)
So empty and void of God.

The bible is 100% pretrib in word, understanding, and spirit.
....AND VIVIDLY ILLUSTRATED IN THE VIRGIN PARABLE AND NOAH ANALOGY.
All of you, reframe, and change , the virgin parable.
That alone is shameful
 
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Scott Downey

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I go by the bible, not your errors and omissions.
The verses I bring to the table are nowhere in your limited partial eschatology.

All rapture verses are pretrib setting

All of them.

None of you can unpack Noah or lot.
None of you can unpack the half taken in mat 24 or 25.
None of you understand the regathering of the Jews in romans 9-11.
None of you understand the Jewish gathering of rev 14;14.

None of you understand what the rapture is.
Instead of understanding it, you guys turn it into a, "tribulation endurance" centering.
In 100% defiance of the AC killing all believers!!!! DURING THE TRIB.
You guys have no answer..NONE...To the innumerable number in Rev.
You defy it, with much "authority "
Look at all your colleagues and yourself, your doctrine is void of looking for Jesus.
In fact, you guys are 100% looking for the antichrist.
Jesus said: "pray that you may be counted worthy to escape the things about to come upon the earth and stand before the son of man."
(There is not a single postribber that can pray that honestly.)

Your faith is somewhere else.

The Bible ends with, "the spirit and the bride calling out to Jesus. And they say come lord Jesus maranatha.
The parting final words. Such a weight of purpose and heart of heaven.

No postribber has ever gone there. It would be totally fake.
You don't even know of the last parting words of the bible.
No postribber has ever brought it up.
Why?
Like I said....your heart and faith are not in the groom. The groom dynamic is abstract to you.
That is why IT IS MISSING in your doctrine.

*No Jesus.
*No heaven
*No Jews gathered.
*No bride
*No groom
....all of those are missing from your doctrine.
Your deal is an empty wagon of "trib endurance"
All your focus is there...on man....and the tribulation.
A narcissistic man centered fabrication of massive omission. ( trib trib trib trib)
So empty and void of God.

The bible is 100% pretrib in word, understanding, and spirit.
....AND VIVIDLY ILLUSTRATED IN THE VIRGIN PARABLE AND NOAH ANALOGY.
All of you, reframe, and change , the virgin parable.
That alone is shameful
I think the 'AC' - Beast system of world government kills whoever is in their power-control, those they have physical possession of such person.

The way it is written
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause to be killed as many as would not worship the image of the beast.

Can also imply that a person has to presented such a choice! In front of an authority of that world government.

It does not imply there is no way of escape, but one exists simply by being somewhere else.
A pre trib rapturist says that is the escape.
A post trib raptuist says there is for some a means of escape before the rapture.
 
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Scott Downey

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Do you see it too?​

Daniel 12:11-13​

New King James Version​

11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.”

Prophecy of the End Time

1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting [a]contempt.
3 Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.
4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

5 Then I, Daniel, looked; and there stood two others, one on this riverbank and the other on that riverbank. 6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?

7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

13 “But you, go your way till the end; for you shall rest, and will arise to your inheritance at the end of the days.