The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

[Laish]

Believing is not a work. That's literally my position. Your position as a Calvinist is that we can't choose to accept the gospel on our own as doing so would make salvation be based on our works. I have already provided scripture debunking that claim in Romans 4, but you've chosen not to engage it.

In order to be saved, one must believe the gospel. That is the condition that must be met on our part, for no one can be saved by any other name than Christ. If you want to flip this and make it appear that I'm claiming that accepting the gospel is somehow the equivalent of following the Torah (a claim I'm not making) that's on you, and you'd be wrong because I'm only repeating John 6:29 where Jesus instructs His hearers on how to do the will God desires.

Ok I have a question. Now after hearing the Gospel some (as I follow you ) chose to believe and others not of their own free will correct? So what separates the two ? Why dose one choose God and the other not ?
In light of scripture
Romans 3:10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
So what is the other factor .
I won’t ask any other questions as they may affect your answer here.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Phoneman777]

Revelation 3:20 is addressed to an apostate church, not the lost world.

Last time I checked, He died for that lost world - and the good news of that He wants shared with those for whom He died.

 

[Phoneman777]

Coming from someone who claims the Christ laid aside His divinity.

In His humanity, yes, but in His divinity, no.

In His humanity, He set the example on how to overcome temptation by total dependence on the Father.

In His divinity, the money changers fled in terror. FROM A RIDICULOUSLY CRUDE WHIP WEILDED BY ONE LONE AND OUTNUMBERED MAN? Or from His Divine power before which no one can stand?

 

[Laish]

In His humanity, yes, but in His divinity, no.

In His humanity, He set the example on how to overcome temptation by total dependence on the Father.

In His divinity, the money changers fled in terror. FROM A RIDICULOUSLY CRUDE WHIP WEILDED BY ONE LONE AND OUTNUMBERED MAN? Or from His Divine power before which no one can stand?

Not a theology question here just a regular one . Where did you get RIDICULOUSLY CRUDE WHIP from ?
Blessings
Bill

 

[Phoneman777]

Oh, so God is now desperate to save ppl? Wow! And our theology is twisted and profane?

Desperate enough to give His only begotten Son which He loves above all the rest of us.

But, you’d give your firstborn to save the life of a rapist terrorist, right? Romans 5:7-8 doesn’t apply to you, right?

Verse 6 says He died for the unGodly aka EVERYBODY.

 

[Dave L]

Believing is not a work. That's literally my position. Your position as a Calvinist is that we can't choose to accept the gospel on our own as doing so would make salvation be based on our works. I have already provided scripture debunking that claim in Romans 4, but you've chosen not to engage it.

In order to be saved, one must believe the gospel. That is the condition that must be met on our part, for no one can be saved by any other name than Christ. If you want to flip this and make it appear that I'm claiming that accepting the gospel is somehow the equivalent of following the Torah (a claim I'm not making) that's on you, and you'd be wrong because I'm only repeating John 6:29 where Jesus instructs His hearers on how to do the will God desires.

It is a work if it is a condition for salvation. Grace saves those who cannot believe and makes believers out of them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hey Phoneman, your pic reminds me of another Phoneman with a beard and sandy hair I knew years ago. He traveled around as a contractor and I would ride with him from time to time helping with installations. I was never a pole climber but remember him complaining about climbing those leaning poles.

“Climb the high side of the ones that lean” they would tell us - which is so dumb. The only guy I can think of who would stand a chance at hooking a pole from the low side is Spider-Man LOL

 

[Dave L]

Jesus instructed us that the work of God, the only "work" we can do that would ever be acceptable in God's sight, is to believe on the One whom God had sent into the world, Jesus Himself. Jesus implores us to do something, to believe in Him of our own volition. Jesus implores us to respond to the gospel. We are urged by Christ to respond positively to the gospel because we have free will, it's just that simple. John 6:29

You are at odds with what scripture plainly states.

You do not understand what scripture plainly states. You turn the gospel into law and grace into works.

 

[Phoneman777]

I always saw this as Jesus speaking to the church, or Maybe those who believe their the church?

Our Commission is to “make disciples of ALL nations” - if those that are in the church have already opened the door to Him, who are they at whose door He knocks?

 

[Phoneman777]

Hey Phoneman, your pic reminds me of another Phoneman with a beard and sandy hair I knew years ago. He traveled around as a contractor and I would ride with him from time to time helping with installations. I was never a pole climber but remember him complaining about climbing those leaning poles.

BTW, you mean to tell me there’s another guy out there as ugly as me? Have mercy! LOL

 

[Dave L]

BTW, you mean to tell me there’s another guy out there as ugly as me? Have mercy! LOL

He was a good friend but died young. You guys look a lot alike though. He also believed similar to you and would challenge my Calvinism from time to time.

 

[Laish]

BTW, you mean to tell me there’s another guy out there as ugly as me? Have mercy! LOL

Lol there must be three . I thought the same when I saw your pic. You look just like a guy I went to high school with here in Phoenix.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Phoneman777]

The Biblical God is not desperate to do anything. This shows you do not yet have any notion of the True and Living God.
The Biblical God we worship does whatsoever He has pleased.
Psalm 115.
God has never intended to save every fallen sinner. He is going to save a great number, but not all.
I guess by calling me pal, you hope to deflect from your lack of biblical information. We are here to help, but if you just want to attack what you do not understand that is your right. I also do not like censorship .
If you want help say so...if not keep posting God dishonouring thoughts. ..you might get some "likes", from others who are just as confused as you are.
It is your choice.

I know He gave His life for a despicable idiot like me who allowed anger to cause a lot of hurt in the lives of a lot of people and now all I wanna do is show the love of Christ to as many people that are now like I used to be.

 

[Dave L]

I know He gave His life for a despicable idiot like me who allowed anger to cause a lot of hurt in the lives of a lot of people and now all I wanna do is show the love of Christ to as many people that are now like I used to be.

Those contractors were a rough bunch back in the day.

 

[Phoneman777]

He was a good friend but died young. You guys look a lot alike though. He also believed similar to you and would challenge my Calvinism from time to time.

I got a twin, but we ain’t identical. He shaves his full head of hair which makes him look like he’s in the work release program.

 

[Laish]

This is cool we have hijacked the thread and got the OP to help . Now let’s take this baby to Geneva. Cuba is so yesterday.
Blessings
Bill

 

[friend of]

Ok I have a question. Now after hearing the Gospel some (as I follow you ) chose to believe and others not of their own free will correct? So what separates the two ? Why dose one choose God and the other not ?
In light of scripture
Romans 3:10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one.”
So what is the other factor .
I won’t ask any other questions as they may affect your answer here.
Blessings
Bill

Paul was referencing the OT, which I believe was speaking more pointedly about the state of Israel at that time. He was also highlighting that they weren't any more righteous than the gentiles. Also, compared to God, certainly all of mankind appears unrighteous, depraved and evil. This commentary does a better job than I could of explaining it.

Romans 3:10 Commentaries: as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

It is a work if it is a condition for salvation.

Yes, believing the gospel is a condition of salvation. Christ says so.

 

[Dave L]

Paul was referencing the OT, which I believe was speaking more pointedly about the state of Israel at that time. He was also highlighting that they weren't any more righteous than the gentiles. Also, compared to God, certainly all of mankind appears unrighteous, depraved and evil. This commentary does a better job than I could of explaining it.

Romans 3:10 Commentaries: as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;



Yes, believing the gospel is a condition of salvation. Christ says so.

Where?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I know He gave His life for a despicable idiot like me who allowed anger to cause a lot of hurt in the lives of a lot of people and now all I wanna do is show the love of Christ to as many people that are now like I used to be.

Yes we can both be thankful that God saves sinners or our faces would most likely be on a wanted poster in the post office .
However while you are posting with fellow sinners saved by grace, our Holy God is far above us in glory and majesty. It is not fitting to speak of Him in any way that does not understand this fact.
I do not think you intended to do that, so I would urge you to use caution when considering His Divine person.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes we can both be thankful that God saves sinners or our faces would most likely be on a wanted poster in the post office .
However while you are posting with fellow sinners saved by grace, our Holy God is far above us in glory and majesty. It is not fitting to speak of Him in any way that does not understand this fact.
I do not think you intended to do that, so I would urge you to use caution when considering His Divine person.

I get the need, worthiness, compulsion for reverence, trust me.

The word “worship” itself is derived from that which means “worthy”.

But, was Jacob irreverent when he refused to let of God until He blessed him? If their was one iota of presumption in Jacob’s voice, you can be sure God would have smote him with thermal nuclear smote for his error.

But God knew Jacob’s heart: God brought Jacob to his breaking point and caused him to realize the one to Whom he clung was the only One who could change his name (character) from “deceiver” to “overcomer” and to let go of Him would mean losing all hope for this life and for eternity.

If you doubt God is desperate to save lost men, just look at the Cross - see the CREATOR dying to save those for whom there can never be any other hope but Him.