The Flesh & The Spirit

[justaname]

Again sin is an action. Sin is a verb. Flesh is a noun. Jesus came in the flesh and will return by the same flesh. The same flesh that you and I have. We are not spirits, we are men. Sin is sin, not flesh. I will not believe your lie.

 

[Alethos]

Again sin is an action. Sin is a verb. Flesh is a noun. Jesus came in the flesh and will return by the same flesh. The same flesh that you and I have. We are not spirits, we are men. Sin is sin, not flesh. I will not believe your lie.

You say "Jesus came in the flesh and will return by the same flesh"

I ask "What type of flesh did he come in?" and "Was it the same flesh you have today"? AND you say he is returning in the same Flesh he came in? Surely not Justaname! surely you don’t believe when Jesus who "put on" immortality is still made to be sin for us even today? 2 Cor 5:21?

What is the difference between the flesh he had on Earth and the flesh he choose to reveal himself at his second coming?

This must get a few people in this forum scratching their heads? Especially with ALL the evidence Christ shared a very nature.

Alethos

 

[justaname]

John 1 - 22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son.

John 5 - 7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three agree in one.

St. John 10 37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though you believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You ask what flesh Jesus came in as if I saw him. I know not but what scripture and logic approves. He was born from the Holy Spirit and Mary. Unique unto any other man so as I know.

St. John 10 - 30
I and the Father are one.

The scripture is overwhelming that Jesus is one with the Father. No other man before him can claim the same. No other man except through him can claim the same. Do you still deny him?

 

[Alethos]

John 1 - 22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son.

John 5 - 7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three agree in one.

St. John 10 37-38
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though you believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

You ask what flesh Jesus came in as if I saw him. I know not but what scripture and logic approves. He was born from the Holy Spirit and Mary. Unique unto any other man so as I know.

St. John 10 - 30
I and the Father are one.

The scripture is overwhelming that Jesus is one with the Father. No other man before him can claim the same. No other man except through him can claim the same. Do you still deny him?

You have given up, havnt you?

You have allowed yourself to go so far, but your existing beliefs hold you from going any further.

Who (Jesus) in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God) that was able to save him (Jesus) from death, and was heard in that he feared; Heb 5:7

This verse is totally lost on you, and I mean totally lost. You cannot understand it because you hold a fasle doctrine, instead of seeking clarity and enlightenment you actually do prefer darkness. In place of asking the right questions you shrink into John 1:1 which you really do not understand, but in your own mind you do?

Jesus came in the same flesh!
Jesus prayed with real tears and real supplications to God...WHY?
Jesus was totally reliant on God in redeeming him from FLESH
Jesus was heard because he "feared" His God and Father.
YES JESUS FEARED GOD!

Let go of your false teachings and allow the Scriptures to teach you!

And if you think for one minute I teach lies....I will allow you to explain to everyone in this forum Heb 5:7!!! We all want you to inform us if God is Jesus and Jesus is God...you make Heb 5:7 a shame and the Bible is full of lies.

Jesus in the days of his flesh, HIS FLESH prompted him to pray, to cry, to weep, to beg His Father to redeem him from death (flesh),

Dont make excuses for not being there to see him, you make a mockery of 1 John 1:1 which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

They handled his flesh!

Something you are yet to do?

Alethos

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

Truth,

I think it's interesting that you express that we can't understand the word of God. You add condemnation and judgement to everyone who doesn't agree.

It's interesting that those of us who disagree with you are one in mind and not wavering. Who do you suppose is teaching us? We are many from many different places yet share in thought the ideas and basic reasonings of the scriptures.

I'm going to think about this more. I will give my final reply to this conversation soon. I'm growing weary of blasphemy and my patience is wearing thin.

However, as I believe you mean well and have honest intentions I will continue to think about this and participate.

 

[Alethos]

Truth,

I think it's interesting that you express that we can't understand the word of God. You add condemnation and judgement to everyone who doesn't agree.

It's interesting that those of us who disagree with you are one in mind and not wavering. Who do you suppose is teaching us? We are many from many different places yet share in thought the ideas and basic reasonings of the scriptures.

I'm going to think about this more. I will give my final reply to this conversation soon. I'm growing weary of blasphemy and my patience is wearing thin.

However, as I believe you mean well and have honest intentions I will continue to think about this and participate.

WhiteKnuckle

Yes the Word of Life is most serious indeed, many here would suggest its a matter of "life and death". I am sure you would agree.

Sin & Death may prove valuable.

Most here are not willing to expose their minds to Bible Truth; I haven’t consulted many books, only one!

And its message is one and totally complete, if you must I am chained with this message, and while you may grow weary the resolve in me grows stronger by the day.

Jesus shared our fallen flesh Heb 2:14-15 2 Cor 5:21 Heb 5:7 Gal 4:4 Rom 8:3 and so on

Accept the truth and see where it leads you....its a wonderful message when understood.

In the Masters Service

 

[justaname]

Jesus was/is flesh, as I have never denied. The Father is spirit which I also never denied. I simply link the to together as the scripture tells us. It is you who denies the three being one as we are plainly told by scripture.
The flesh humbles itself to spirit. The Son humbles himself to the Father. This plainly explains Hebrews 5 - 7.
God did not the create flesh to be evil or sin from the beginning, this we all too well know. But Adam and Eve created all sinners because they sinned. Mom and Dad taught sin to their children through their actions.
Jesus' Father does not sin, thereby the transgression of sin was not passed down from Father to Son.

 

[Alethos]

Jesus was/is flesh, as I have never denied.

You have denied Jesus could not be tempted to sin, and by default you are saying he was not flesh and blood

The Father is spirit which I also never denied.

True - He cannot be tempted unlike Jesus James 1:13-15

I simply link the to together as the scripture tells us. It is you who denies the three being one as we are plainly told by scripture.

Three being one? Where are we taught about this teaching? show me from the Old Testament? and then build this into the NT?

The flesh humbles itself to spirit. The Son humbles himself to the Father. This plainly explains Hebrews 5 - 7.

But you say Jesus is God? How can God humble Himself to Himself :blink:

God did not the create flesh to be evil or sin from the beginning, this we all too well know.

Yes but God passed on the condemnation of death to Adam & Eve Gen 2:17-15

But Adam and Eve created all sinners because they sinned.

Not created but passed on the nature which is prone to sin.

Mom and Dad taught sin to their children through their actions.

It wasnt taught, sin come out of the Flesh, its inherited nature Rom 5:12

Jesus' Father does not sin, thereby the transgression of sin was not passed down from Father to Son.

Error. Jesus was born of a woman Gal 4:4; The Father cannot sin or be tempted James 1:13,14,15 but Jesus could Heb 4:15.

Jesus is the Son
God is the Father
Holy Spirit is the Power of God, and it is His to bestow upon whom He wills. Luke 3:22

You cannot confuse them in realtion to the work of God in Christ.

Do that and the scriptures are at odds with itself...as we have proven

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

But you say Jesus is God? How can God humble Himself to Himself :blink:

Did you forget that you admitted that Jesus is God??? So then ask yourself.

 

[Alethos]

Answer is No! God is The One True God and has no need of Humbling Himself before anyone or anything! EVER!

Only Jesus was required to humble himself!

Heb 5:7 Jesus the beloved Son fell under the might hand of God who redeemed him from death (flesh) 2 Cor 5:21

Alethos

 

[justaname]

Jesus is/was equal with God. Scripture has proven this over and over again.
What you speak of is relational and now I have a greater understanding of what you are attempting to explain as the relationship of Father to Son. In these terms I understand and have never disagreed. When I pray I direct my prayer to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ relying in the Holy Spirit to convey the prayer. From my standpoint I need them all to get the prayer through. To me they are all equally God. Each one playing an integral and vital role.

I will not, and have never refuted Jesus was/is flesh. Simply he was a unique man. As always fully man, fully God.

Romans 5 - 12 Does not fulfill what you attempt. It simply states once one man sinned; the sinning spread to all men.

Jesus (temple) was tempted but proven unable to be tempted through a sinless life. The spirit of Jesus Christ, which is eternally connected to the Father, was never tempted. It was the flesh that was tempted. His brain processed the temptation but through the Spirit he never failed. Now do you see why you need Christ. Without God in your life you are bound to sinning. Jesus gives us the same Holy Spirit he shared with the Father so we may be able to overcome sin. Now this is meat.

Jesus was led by the Spirit, taking from an early age knowledge from the Father. I am sure you know about the sins of the father being passed down from father to son. Let me say with God's watchful eye this was not going to happen in Joseph's household. These two, Joseph and Mary, were hand picked for a reason.


Three being one cannot be taught from O.T. The flesh had not arrived. If you remember it was the Word that requested this action to take place, and everyone was thinking kingdom. It simply was not in the Fathers plan to make mention before hand. If you believed in Satan you would understand why.

Allow me to add, I have found these threads a blessing to my journey. Thanks be to the Father and may we receive all of this in love. If by what I have posted I have offended you or anyone else I am sorry. I feel strongly, as you do, about my understanding and beliefs.

 

[aspen]

Truth,

I think it's interesting that you express that we can't understand the word of God. You add condemnation and judgement to everyone who doesn't agree.

It's interesting that those of us who disagree with you are one in mind and not wavering. Who do you suppose is teaching us? We are many from many different places yet share in thought the ideas and basic reasonings of the scriptures.

I'm going to think about this more. I will give my final reply to this conversation soon. I'm growing weary of blasphemy and my patience is wearing thin.

However, as I believe you mean well and have honest intentions I will continue to think about this and participate.

I totally agree. Like I said before, Truth has succeeded in uniting Catholics and Protestants, conservatives and liberals against his reckless understanding of scripture. Incredible!

 

[Alethos]

I totally agree. Like I said before, Truth has succeeded in uniting Catholics and Protestants, conservatives and liberals against his reckless understanding of scripture. Incredible!

Nice contribution Aspen...reminds no of a hit and run....and we are left wondering 2 Tim 4:3

 

[aspen]

Nice contribution Aspen...reminds no of a hit and run....and we are left wondering 2 Tim 4:3

Pearls before swine, truth........Matthew 7:6

you have no need to wonder - review our previous conversation. I am finished hitting my head against a brick wall.

 

[Alethos]

Pearls before swine, truth........[font="Verdana][url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+7:6&version=NIV"]Matthew 7:6[/url][/font]

you have no need to wonder - review our previous conversation. I am finished hitting my head against a brick wall.

Aspen,

I am yet to see your pearl!! You sit in the background and let your fellow believers do all the leg work. In worldly terms; a sloth who waits for easy pickings. Pearls before swine? Justaname & Whiteknuckle have shown their pearl with more contribution and vigour, at least they are willing to reason out the matter. If you were acting upon Prov 27:17 at least I would feel some warmth from you, maybe even sparks ! ! ! the heat might be unpleasant, but at least its warm, but I get nothing from your contribution.

I will wait for you to explain to us the interpretation of Heb 5:7 2 Cor 5:21 Rom 8:3 Heb 2:14-15 Gal 4:4.

Reconcile Jesus being God who dwelt in sinful flesh and was required to be redeemed by his Father.

Please resist your books on theology, just bring your Bible!

Alethos

 

[aspen]

Aspen,

I am yet to see your pearl!! You sit in the background and let your fellow believers do all the leg work. In worldly terms; a sloth who waits for easy pickings. Pearls before swine? Justaname & Whiteknuckle have shown their pearl with more contribution and vigour, at least they are willing to reason out the matter. If you were acting upon Prov 27:17 at least I would feel some warmth from you, maybe even sparks ! ! ! the heat might be unpleasant, but at least its warm, but I get nothing from your contribution.

I will wait for you to explain to us the interpretation of Heb 5:7 2 Cor 5:21 Rom 8:3 Heb 2:14-15 Gal 4:4.

Reconcile Jesus being God who dwelt in sinful flesh and was required to be redeemed by his Father.

Please resist your books on theology, just bring your Bible!

Alethos

Same old song and dance.......last time you tried to goad me into your vortex of misinterpretation by claiming that Joshua was the only one trying to reason with you. Once again, if you interested in my attempt to untie your knots of heresy, review our previous conversation.

I am only here to agree with Whiteknuckle and everyone else who has highlighted your blatant misreading of scripture and false teachings.

 

[Alethos]

Same old song and dance.......last time you tried to goad me into your vortex of misinterpretation by claiming that Joshua was the only one trying to reason with you. Once again, if you interested in my attempt to untie your knots of heresy, review our previous conversation.

I am only here to agree with Whiteknuckle and everyone else who has highlighted your blatant misreading of scripture and false teachings.

I will take that as a definitive no.

BTW did you ever read our mutual discussion on A New Heaven and New Earth ?

 

[Alethos]

Heb 5:7

During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions (strong crying) with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death.

Doubtless this is the Priestly work of Jesus Christ via the testing and sufferings he experienced as the Son of Man and the Son of God. His sufferings were as a direct result of his humanity. You will note the language “offered up” which is making reference to him as our High Priest.

Paul’s mind is in the Garden of Gethsemane see Mat 26:36-46 when Jesus was "overwhelmed to the point of death", and he prayed as it were great drops of blood proceeded from his forehead. His request; if possible the "cup" might pass from him reveals to us Jesus had another will other than the Fathers. However he put his own will (flesh) down and crucified his desires by yielding every time to the Father. Gal 5:24 applies here.

The only One who could save him from death

Jesus suffered not from any personal sin! But from the hereditary effects of sin in his nature; for these effects are physical effects. Death is a physical law in our members implanted there through sin ages ago, and passed down from generation to generation. Jesus partook of our physical nature he did so and as a result he was delivered (as 'Christ the first fruits') it was necessary for him to be like his brethren. Heb 2:17

The fact for all Christians here to consider is if Christ had not first been saved from death (Heb 5:7), if he had not first obtained eternal redemption (Heb 9:12), there would have been no hope for us, for we obtain salvation only through what he has accomplished in himself"

From death

“From” The Greek word for "from" in this verse is EK meaning something "out of". In other words, Jesus prayed not to be saved from DYING, but rather to be saved OUT OF death!

Why? Because in the death state there nothing, no consiousness, nothing!

The purpose of God required that Jesus MUST die (Mat 26:54), but consider the mercy and love of his Father saving him from the grave to a new and endless life.

And he was heard because of his submission

In the RV "His godly fear" His submission to the Father's will is seen in: "Not my will, but Your will be done!" (Mat 26:39).

We will never appreciate the life of the Master and his sufferings if we fail to see his humanity. It is here he became the firstfruits of them which suffer daily in the flesh, it is he who is our captain teaching us how to overcome all that is in the world 1 John 2:6 and it is he who overcame sin and death because of faith. 1 John 5:4

Alethos

 

[[email protected]]

Again sin is an action. Sin is a verb. Flesh is a noun. Jesus came in the flesh and will return by the same flesh. The same flesh that you and I have. We are not spirits, we are men. Sin is sin, not flesh. I will not believe your lie.

According to the Merriam-Webster free online dictionary, sin is a noun as well as a verb.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sin

It is a noun in that it is an offense against God and it's a verb in that it is also an action.

The Bible also states that sin is a personality.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 4:7

 

[justaname]

According to the Merriam-Webster free online dictionary, sin is a noun as well as a verb.

http://www.merriam-w.../dictionary/sin

It is a noun in that it is an offense against God and it's a verb in that it is also an action.

The Bible also states that sin is a personality.

If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door: and unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Gen 4:7

Well stated, I stand corrected

Sin, being an action or act against God, still is not physical. There may be a physical manifestation in God's presence but I am only speculating. Here on earth sin is not something we can touch and that is the case I attempting to prove. I am good at looking up Bible verses just not Webster's LOL