The Flesh & The Spirit

[Alethos]

That's exactly what Paul meant, a sin offering, a sacrifice. That's why Jesus is called the Lamb.

John 1:29 (NKJV)
[sup]29 [/sup]The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 10:12-14 (NKJV)
[sup]12 [/sup]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [sup]13 [/sup]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [sup]14 [/sup]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Is anyone else seeing what this guy is saying???

Ducky, I am pleased you read these studies in some way you are learning of the great work of the Father in the Son.

While I understand why you would prefer to think 2 Cor 5:21 is referring to a sin-offering. It is plainly clear that Jesus came in our nature...and he was “made” flesh (sin) for us.

However, this is difficult to understand and I perceive you and others may have great difficulty in coming to terms with this truth concerning 2 Cor 5:21.

Years of study have bought me to this truth so I don’t expect your eyes will be opened instantly. We may need to rub them a few times, however, I won’t use spittle.

We all know children are born sinners (or unclean) as the Bible teaches Job 25:4; Rom 5:12, because they are born of sinful flesh.

To this “we” must agree as all are held under sin Rom 3:9. So those (all peoples) who are born of the flesh (woman) is flesh or sin. Now this is unfortunate and out of our control, it’s not a crime! All of us did not “will” to be born sinners.

If you had a choice would you?

You and I have no choice for it is written in Rom 8:20.

Rom 8:20 For the creature (us) was “made” subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. KJV

Vanity here means moral depravity i.e sin. Other translations have recorded it so.

Rom 8:20 For the creation (us) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him (God) who subjected it, in hope.

Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ESV

We are all subject to vanity, futility & transientness (unstable creatures) which are all expressions of sin.

Rom 8:20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. NIV

We have no choice in the above situation because we are all made subject to evil, not willingly, but according to the arranging of hope (Rom. 8:20). In other words the hope that is set before us liberates us from the slavery to death and coruption.

You know it is written “Adam's disobedience the many were made sinners' (Rom. 5:19); 'that means, they were endowed with a nature like his (Adams), which had become unclean, as a result of his disobedience"

Now all three translations (KJV ESV NIV) mention “Bondage to corruption” to imply we all break down in the earth. Everyone suffered from this condition, yes even Jesus Christ was under condemnation because of the Flesh and Blood nature he bore.

He was made sin for us, however in Psa 16:10 what are we told about Jesus?

Psa 16:10 For thou (God) wilt not leave my (David & Jesus) soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Jesus) to see corruption.

In other words God would not allow His son to break down (decay) in the earth, although if left there long enough he would, (Lazarus began to stink) this Scripture was an assurance that Jesus body would not “see” decay only being dead three days.

See John 11:39.

As you know this is again quoted in Acts 2:27; 13:35 to stress the emphasis on Jesus sharing our nature, one held under condemnation from Adam.

Can you permit me to take this lesson one step further? The accuracy in this text is amazing to say the lest!

The burial custom in those days often meant multiple burials and in very large tombs. After some years these chambers would be cleared out to allow other bodies to be buried.

But what are we told of Jesus? He was buried in Joseph's "own new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid" John 19:41. So Jesus did not "see" decay in his tomb as the tomb had never seen decay! Whatsoever! In his resurrection Jesus did not so much as see corruption.

So the Master shared our flesh and blood, he wasn’t God ducky, and he will never be God. He was born of a woman, suffered in all points and more, he was likened to the manna that came down from heaven (John 6:35,41, 48,50,51,58), but raised before corruption in God's presence (Exo 16:32-24; Heb 9:4).

A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief..one made to be flesh for us.

He is also the firstborn Col 1:18 from among the dead!

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

So the Master shared our flesh and blood, he wasn’t God ducky, and he will never be God.

You still haven't answered my question. If this isn't Jesus/God then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky, I am pleased you read these studies in some way you are learning of the great work of the Father in the Son. While I understand why you would prefer to think 2 Cor 5:21 is referring to a sin-offering. It is plainly clear that Jesus came in our nature...and he was “made” flesh (sin) for us. However, this is difficult to understand and I perceive you and others may have great difficulty in coming to terms with this truth concerning 2 Cor 5:21. Years of study have bought me to this truth so I don’t expect your eyes will be opened instantly. We may need to rub them a few times, however, I won’t use spittle. We all know children are born sinners (or unclean) as the Bible teaches Job 25:4; Rom 5:12, because they are born of sinful flesh. To this “we” must agree as all are held under sin Rom 3:9. So those (all peoples) who are born of the flesh (woman) is flesh or sin. Now this is unfortunate and out of our control, it’s not a crime! All of us did not “will” to be born sinners. If you had a choice would you? You and I have no choice for it is written in Rom 8:20. Rom 8:20 For the creature (us) was “made” subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. KJV Vanity here means moral depravity i.e sin. Other translations have recorded it so. Rom 8:20 For the creation (us) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him (God) who subjected it, in hope. Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ESV We are all subject to vanity, futility & transientness (unstable creatures) which are all expressions of sin. Rom 8:20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. NIV We have no choice in the above situation because we are all made subject to evil, not willingly, but according to the arranging of hope (Rom. 8:20). In other words the hope that is set before us liberates us from the slavery to death and coruption. You know it is written “Adam's disobedience the many were made sinners' (Rom. 5:19); 'that means, they were endowed with a nature like his (Adams), which had become unclean, as a result of his disobedience" Now all three translations (KJV ESV NIV) mention “Bondage to corruption” to imply we all break down in the earth. Everyone suffered from this condition, yes even Jesus Christ was under condemnation because of the Flesh and Blood nature he bore. He was made sin for us, however in Psa 16:10 what are we told about Jesus? Psa 16:10 For thou (God) wilt not leave my (David & Jesus) soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Jesus) to see corruption. In other words God would not allow His son to break down (decay) in the earth, although if left there long enough he would, (Lazarus began to stink) this Scripture was an assurance that Jesus body would not “see” decay only being dead three days.

See John 11:39. As you know this is again quoted in Acts 2:27; 13:35 to stress the emphasis on Jesus sharing our nature, one held under condemnation from Adam. Can you permit me to take this lesson one step further? The accuracy in this text is amazing to say the lest! The burial custom in those days often meant multiple burials and in very large tombs. After some years these chambers would be cleared out to allow other bodies to be buried. But what are we told of Jesus? He was buried in Joseph's "own new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid" John 19:41. So Jesus did not "see" decay in his tomb as the tomb had never seen decay! Whatsoever! In his resurrection Jesus did not so much as see corruption. So the Master shared our flesh and blood, he wasn’t God ducky, and he will never be God. He was born of a woman, suffered in all points and more, he was likened to the manna that came down from heaven (John 6:35,41, 48,50,51,58), but raised before corruption in God's presence (Exo 16:32-24; Heb 9:4). A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief..one made to be flesh for us.

He is also the firstborn Col 1:18 from among the dead!

Alethos

What you need to realize is that many here are on to you and your anti-Christ doctrines. Rather than patting yourself on the back you should be repenting if you can. You say that Jesus was sinless but go out of your way to prove he was sinful.

 

[[email protected]]

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have." (Luke 24:39 RSV)

Rjp, you cannot refute this truth, no doubt you will hold onto your expert commentaries as many have not thought about this topic for themselves.

The Bible explains to us very clearly that Jesus Christ came in actual FLESH styled "in the flesh".

You have God warning upon you rjp in His Word that to separate Jesus from his flesh is deadly wrong!!! For this you are teaching the mind of the antichrist.

I never wrote nor implied that Jesus did not come in the flesh of man. Quite the contrary, I have written in great detail that He did!

Your accusations that I have written otherwise are unfounded twisted lies.
If you'd spent any time at all in consideration of what I wrote, you'd see that I affirmed God in the flesh as Jesus - each and every time.

"My frustration with you, sir, is that trying to put knowledge into your head is like pouring water into a bucket with many holes. The truth leaks out of your head as fast as anyone pours it in."
- Martin Luther in his letter to Erasmus

"When someone points skyward, it's the fool that looks at the finger."
- Anonymous

 

[Alethos]

I never wrote nor implied that Jesus did not come in the flesh of man. Quite the contrary, I have written in great detail that He did!

Your accusations that I have written otherwise are unfounded twisted lies.
If you'd spent any time at all in consideration of what I wrote, you'd see that I affirmed God in the flesh as Jesus - each and every time.

"My frustration with you, sir, is that trying to put knowledge into your head is like pouring water into a bucket with many holes. The truth leaks out of your head as fast as anyone pours it in."
- Martin Luther in his letter to Erasmus

"When someone points skyward, it's the fool that looks at the finger."
- Anonymous

You believe Jesus to "be" God and we know God cannot be tempted with evil James 1:13-15. You have made it very clear "crystal" that Jesus could not sin, nor could he die.

Face the truth you believe Jesus did not come in the Flesh and now you are back tracking due to the weight of the scriptures.

In many ways you have nowhere to go.

If you say Jesus shared the same nature, then your trinity doctrine will not stand, however, if you say he is God, then the antichrist is crouching like a lion at your door.

Empty uninspired quotes do nothing for me...teach truth and not sayings of men.

Alethos

 

[Alethos]

Ducky, I am pleased you read these studies in some way you are learning of the great work of the Father in the Son.

While I understand why you would prefer to think 2 Cor 5:21 is referring to a sin-offering. It is plainly clear that Jesus came in our nature...and he was “made” flesh (sin) for us.

However, this is difficult to understand and I perceive you and others may have great difficulty in coming to terms with this truth concerning 2 Cor 5:21.

Years of study have bought me to this truth so I don’t expect your eyes will be opened instantly. We may need to rub them a few times, however, I won’t use spittle.

We all know children are born sinners (or unclean) as the Bible teaches Job 25:4; Rom 5:12, because they are born of sinful flesh.

To this “we” must agree as all are held under sin Rom 3:9. So those (all peoples) who are born of the flesh (woman) is flesh or sin. Now this is unfortunate and out of our control, it’s not a crime! All of us did not “will” to be born sinners.

If you had a choice would you?

You and I have no choice for it is written in Rom 8:20.

Rom 8:20 For the creature (us) was “made” subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. KJV

Vanity here means moral depravity i.e sin. Other translations have recorded it so.

Rom 8:20 For the creation (us) was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him (God) who subjected it, in hope.

Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. ESV

We are all subject to vanity, futility & transientness (unstable creatures) which are all expressions of sin.

Rom 8:20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

Rom 8:21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. NIV

We have no choice in the above situation because we are all made subject to evil, not willingly, but according to the arranging of hope (Rom. 8:20). In other words the hope that is set before us liberates us from the slavery to death and coruption.

You know it is written “Adam's disobedience the many were made sinners' (Rom. 5:19); 'that means, they were endowed with a nature like his (Adams), which had become unclean, as a result of his disobedience"

Now all three translations (KJV ESV NIV) mention “Bondage to corruption” to imply we all break down in the earth. Everyone suffered from this condition, yes even Jesus Christ was under condemnation because of the Flesh and Blood nature he bore.

He was made sin for us, however in Psa 16:10 what are we told about Jesus?

Psa 16:10 For thou (God) wilt not leave my (David & Jesus) soul (body) in hell (grave); neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One (Jesus) to see corruption.

In other words God would not allow His son to break down (decay) in the earth, although if left there long enough he would, (Lazarus began to stink) this Scripture was an assurance that Jesus body would not “see” decay only being dead three days.

See John 11:39.

As you know this is again quoted in Acts 2:27; 13:35 to stress the emphasis on Jesus sharing our nature, one held under condemnation from Adam.

Can you permit me to take this lesson one step further? The accuracy in this text is amazing to say the lest!

The burial custom in those days often meant multiple burials and in very large tombs. After some years these chambers would be cleared out to allow other bodies to be buried.

But what are we told of Jesus? He was buried in Joseph's "own new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid" John 19:41. So Jesus did not "see" decay in his tomb as the tomb had never seen decay! Whatsoever! In his resurrection Jesus did not so much as see corruption.

So the Master shared our flesh and blood, he wasn’t God ducky, and he will never be God. He was born of a woman, suffered in all points and more, he was likened to the manna that came down from heaven (John 6:35,41, 48,50,51,58), but raised before corruption in God's presence (Exo 16:32-24; Heb 9:4).

A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief..one made to be flesh for us.

He is also the firstborn Col 1:18 from among the dead!

Alethos

Ducky, why can you not hear this Word? John 8:43

Rom 8:20-21 & Psa 16:10 are precious lessons about our Lord and you discard them like they are trash.

If only one could see the beauty of our Lords sufferings and death, but you make him a God and not a man, whose God saved him from seeing corruption.

Alethos

 

[justaname]

I have proven sin not equal to flesh with scripture. I did not swap one word. Can you claim the same?

 

[Alethos]

I have proven sin not equal to flesh with scripture. I did not swap one word. Can you claim the same?

What was in Jesus' flesh which required God to destroy? Heb 2:14 Rom 8:20 Heb 4:15 2 Cor 5:21

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, Rom 8:3

“likeness of sinful flesh” means that he was a bond-servant under condemnation of sin as the rest of mankind. (1 Peter 2:21-24; Philippians 2:7,8; Romans 8:21)

Jesus experienced the many sufferings of humanity, but was found without personal sin. I have explained that flesh = sin, however the flesh was not his sin, as it is not our transgression that we are mortal and die. Read Rom 5:12 thats the whole thrust of the atonement! We are not responsible for the inherited nature whcih is prone to sin...this was Adams transgression but it has passed on to all people who are born of a woman.

This mortal condition is held against us, because we sin while being in the flesh. Rom 6:23...Jesus never earnt those wages becuase he personally did no sin...but destroyed sin in his own flesh!

Jesus did not see corruption because he did no sin while being in the flesh. The weak flesh was not held against him because Gods purpose in sending him was to destroy the power which is sin, within the flesh.

Take comfort he did this for you and accept this wonderful gift...and if it means you need to revisit your belief that Jesus is God, then do so and may you be blessed in your searching.



Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

Ducky, why can you not hear this Word? John 8:43

Rom 8:20-21 & Psa 16:10 are precious lessons about our Lord and you discard them like they are trash.

If only one could see the beauty of our Lords sufferings and death, but you make him a God and not a man, whose God saved him from seeing corruption.

You and I clearly believe in a different Jesus. Did you miss my question, again?

"You still haven't answered my question. If this isn't Jesus/God then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. "

“likeness of sinful flesh” means that he was a bond-servant under condemnation of sin as the rest of mankind. (1 Peter 2:21-24; Philippians 2:7,8; Romans 8:21)

Again you call Jesus a sinner.

We are not responsible for the inherited nature whcih is prone to sin...this was Adams transgression but it has passed on to all people who are born of a woman.

And again.

This mortal condition is held against us, because we sin while being in the flesh. Rom 6:23...Jesus never earnt those wages becuase he personally did no sin...but destroyed sin in his own flesh!

Jesus did not see corruption because he did no sin while being in the flesh. The weak flesh was not held against him because Gods purpose in sending him was to destroy the power which is sin, within the flesh.

Take comfort he did this for you and accept this wonderful gift...and if it means you need to revisit your belief that Jesus is God, then do so and may you be blessed in your searching.

If Jesus isn't God then who/what is He?

 

[justaname]

Likeness of sinful flesh means Jesus' temple, which never sinned, was "made to be" sin, as Paul says. A replacement for our sinful flesh. You are fooled and blinded. Do not make sin a cart rope. As my brother Ducky says, else why is Jesus called the Lamb of God.
Again males born under the Law are called holy. Are you claiming there is holy sin? Hold not to the doctrine of devils.
How can flesh that does not sin be called sinful? Answer: Jesus claims our sin as his own.
IT IS NOT THE FLESH THAT IS SIN, BUT THE ACT OF SINNING IS THE SIN ITSELF>!!!! The host of the flesh is the sinner.
Jesus was born into the flesh in a world filled with sin, to be sinless, so sin can be condemned. Jesus was/is never condemned. As we know he is justified, proven righteous in judgement, abolishing the law, so he may hold the keys to Heaven. No more are we hidden in Abraham through Our Lord's covenant, but we are now hidden in Christ our Lord.
You think by works or knowledge you can overcome sin, you teach not the gospel of grace, taught by the apostles, the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Go ahead and try to work you way to heaven, or gain some hidden knowledge for a back door entrance.
I will enter through the leaved gates my Father opened for me.

 

[Alethos]

You and I clearly believe in a different Jesus. Did you miss my question, again?

"You still haven't answered my question. If this isn't Jesus/God then who is it?

Jeremiah 17:10 (NKJV)
[sup]10 [/sup]I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings. "

Again you call Jesus a sinner.

And again.

If Jesus isn't God then who/what is He?

The Son of God & the Son of Man...but never will he be God himself.

Sorry Ducky...the scriptures are silent on your belief. The Apostles and Prophets never believe Jesus to be actual God 2 Cor 11:31 Col 1:3 Eph 1:3 1 Peter 1:3 only His Son and the one who represented man styled the Son of Man..Like you said the lamb of God, the symbol of a sacrificial animal who yielded to death Isa 53:7. Spoken of by the prophets and promised from the beginning to take away the sin of the world.

Can you find the word trinity in the Bible?

I know its a man made thing

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

The Son of God & the Son of Man...but never will he be God himself.

He was just a man?

Sorry Ducky...the scriptures are silent on your belief.

You're reading a different book than I am. You haven't refuted any of the MANY Scriptures that have been presented stating clearly that Jesus is God.

Matthew 1:23 (NKJV)
[sup]23 [/sup]"Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."

The Apostles and Prophets never believe Jesus to be actual God 2 Cor 11:31 Col 1:3 Eph 1:3 1 Peter 1:3 only His Son and the one who represented man styled the Son of Man..

Yes they did, many times.

John 20:28-29 (NKJV)
[sup]28 [/sup]And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" [sup]29 [/sup]Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Like you said the lamb of God, the symbol of a sacrificial animal who yielded to death Isa 53:7. Spoken of by the prophets and promised from the beginning to take away the sin of the world.

You said Jesus wasn't a sin offering. Make up your mind.

Can you find the word trinity in the Bible?

I know its a man made thing

Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[sup]19 [/sup]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

 

[justaname]

Romans 8 : 20 - 21
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Would you have us believe this scripture about our beloved Jesus Christ? First off why not just use the name if it were about him. Second the scripture reads was made "subject to vanity." You now claim Our Lords house is divided. Blasphemy. Jesus was not subject to vanity, or a sinner, as you claim. He was/is subject to the Father alone.

I will no longer refute my case to Satan, but I will call to you Son of Adam. Rethink your views now whilst you are still here on earth.

 

[Alethos]

Romans 8 : 20 - 21
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Would you have us believe this scripture about our beloved Jesus Christ? First off why not just use the name if it were about him. Second the scripture reads was made "subject to vanity." You now claim Our Lords house is divided. Blasphemy. Jesus was not subject to vanity, or a sinner, as you claim. He was/is subject to the Father alone.

I will no longer refute my case to Satan, but I will call to you Son of Adam. Rethink your views now whilst you are still here on earth.

Well at least I have you saying he was subject to the Father..."subject" means he takes a lower position than God being under His authority, both on earth and in Heaven.

You raise a very valid point, although agressively, it is still valid, one which takes us to the heart of this study / discussion.

Where was the battle fought in Jesus Christ? Heb 4:15 (Precisely)
Where is the source of temptation? James 3:13-15 (Flesh)
Why can God not be tempted with evil? Because he would need to be Flesh but He is all Spirit. James 1:13 (source of sin is in the Flesh and not Spirit to this you must agree!)

Romans 8 provides you the answer concerning Jesus mind and how the battle was fought and won.

[sup]5[/sup]For they (us) that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they (us) that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. [sup]6[/sup]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. [sup]7[/sup]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law (commands) of God, neither indeed can be. [sup]8[/sup]So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The question I have for you justaname is this:

Could Jesus, if he wanted, access the carnal (animal) mind / thinking of the flesh during his probation on earth?

Now before you rashly answer this question, you need to consider some very essential points:

1 Eph 2:15 Tells us Jesus removed (abolished) the enmity "in" his flesh. To remove something from within you, it must needs be present, else "you" have a problem; based on the Rom 8:5 & Heb 4:!5 if Jesus had used his carnal mind he would be dead and we would have no hope! BUT HE (Jesus) NEVER used his carnal serpent mind, no not once - but was he tempted to?

A resounding YES!

This is how he (Jesus) abolished the enmity in his flesh, like the Apostle Paul said in Rom 17:9 however, Jesus never gave in to temptation and lust...but it was ALWAYS present with him.

Now if you return implying Jesus never had in his flesh the ability to access this carnal mind in affect you are saying he did come in the Flesh and he came in something else, unknown to all of us.

Here are some examples of Jesus being tempted:

Matt 4 Temptations in the wilderness
John 8:1-11 Woman dragged before in caught in adultery

And finally a great example of Jesus acknowledging to you justaname of his own "will".

And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I (Jesus) will, but as thou (God's) will.

Jesus is openly unashamedly acknowledging to us all he possessed another "will" (mind) which inwardly desired another way! But as always he accepted the will (mind) of his Father. "NOT AS I WILL" If you don’t believe Jesus Christ had a of his own YOU justaname do not know Jesus Christ. Rom 15:3. "But Jesus with resignation yielded to the Father's will..."

You can call me satan, I can be the embodiment of your beloved satan but if you don’t understand this lesson your name is written alongside 1 John 4:3. And your name will not be in the book life!

Humble yourself under the MIGHTY WORD OF THE LIVING GOD and not to fantasies.

Alethos

 

[Duckybill]

Humble yourself under the MIGHTY WORD OF THE LIVING GOD and not to fantasies.

How ironic can one get?

 

[Alethos]

This is how he (Jesus) abolished the enmity in his flesh, like the Apostle Paul said in Rom 17:9 however, Jesus never gave in to temptation and lust...but it was ALWAYS present with him.

Sorry, verse should be "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me". Rom 7:21

[sup]8[/sup]For I (Paul) know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to "will" is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [sup]9[/sup]For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [sup]20[/sup]Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [sup]21[/sup]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. [sup]22[/sup]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

The Blue text is referring to Paul, Jesus and all mankind.
The Red text is speaking of Paul, you and I, BUT NOT JESUS!!! No man has ever delighted in God more than Jesus Christ who made him strong for His purpose.

Jesus acknoweldged this law within him, when he said to the man Mark 10:18 knowing that in him was the potential of no good thing.

Can you comprehend the struggle in overcoming sin and temptation in his life - look at your own failings and think he did not sin once! But thank fully 2 Cor 5:21

Alethos

 

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Jesus experienced the many sufferings of humanity, but was found without personal sin. I have explained that flesh = sin, however the flesh was not his sin, as it is not our transgression that we are mortal and die. Read Rom 5:12 thats the whole thrust of the atonement! We are not responsible for the inherited nature whcih is prone to sin...this was Adams transgression but it has passed on to all people who are born of a woman.

This mortal condition is held against us, because we sin while being in the flesh. Rom 6:23...Jesus never earnt those wages becuase he personally did no sin...but destroyed sin in his own flesh!

Jesus did not see corruption because he did no sin while being in the flesh. The weak flesh was not held against him because Gods purpose in sending him was to destroy the power which is sin, within the flesh.

You do not see the error in your own logic.
Additionally, you have not been able to prove that flesh is sin.

Logically, if the flesh is sin, then Jesus' death on the cross was meaningless as God wouldn't have accepted it.
According to O.T. law the flesh of the sacrificed creature must be without flaw or blemish.

Jesus' sacrifice was accepted by God and was therefore perfect. There was a great deal more to it than Jesus just being a nice guy, a teacher and a miracle worker.

Your problem is an inaccurate understanding of sin. You have pinned your whole argument and definition of sin on the flesh, but it doesn't work. It makes Christ's death on the cross invalid.

What's the point of killing the flesh if it's imperfect? By your definition, all men have the same imperfect flesh. The death of one Jew therefore means nothing in the context of this universal sinful flesh you speak of. What then saves us? Tell us please.

That Jesus did not sin while in the flesh is an act of His will, not the flesh.

The will drives the flesh as a man drives a car. If a man is drunk and aims the car off the road is it the fault of the car or the drunk behind the wheel? For the dwi, the man represents the will. For Christ it is the divine intent or will within Him that drives Him to perfection. The will of normal man is corrupt. The experience is a tension between the desire for perfection and the desire to yield to temptation, which in turn leads to sin.

The perfect sacrifice of Christ was a complete package; perfect flesh, perfect mind and perfect will to please God. Anything less would have no meaning and be subject to rejection per the aforementioned O.T. law. The law would therefore STILL BE IN PLACE.

SIN IS AN ACT as well as an INFLUENCE. Nowhere does the Bible say it is the flesh.

Sin affects the will, which in turn drives the flesh.
A man can sin IN the flesh, but the flesh does not sin ON the man.
Simply put, the flesh does not have a mind of it's own. Sin dwells in the mind and is expressed in the flesh.
If you are going to make little equations out of it try this one;

will = sin

This is more accurate, albeit still a bit simplistic. It ought to get the point across.

Lack of a basic understanding of the nature of sin will result in never having an assurance of salvation, never understanding the way sin really works and never having a hope of deliverance from it apart from your own demise.

 

[justaname]

Ephesians 2 : 12 That at that time ye were without Chirst, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Here Paul is speaking to the Ephesians or Gentiles.
Ephesians 2 : 13 - 14
Now by the blood of Christ Gentiles and Jews are reconciled.
Ephesians 2 : 15
In Christ the enmity between Jew and Gentile is abolished, abolishing even the law contained in ordinances, making in Christ a new creation (Christian).



Here is the doctrine of enmity in the flesh as it is applied to the Christ. You must keep things in context when you read them.
Jesus did no come to glorify the flesh, but the Spirit, hence he humbles the flesh to the Father. God's cannot be tempted as you say which is truth. A sinless life in Jesus has proven that.
It is not the flesh that binds us but sin does.
Your doctrine would have us in prisoned in the flesh. That which you bind here on earth so also do you bind in Heaven.

 

[justaname]

Now as to your antichrist issue.

The antichrist would have us believe the flesh is spirt. Sin is no fleshy thing. I can not touch sin. Look in Webster's definition.
Jesus did not come in Spirit but in flesh. He will return in the same flesh he left in. Sinless, justified, sanctified, holy, with his holy assembly. Are you prepared or will you condemn his temple?

 

[Alethos]

Now as to your antichrist issue.

The antichrist would have us believe the flesh is spirt. Sin is no fleshy thing. I can not touch sin. Look in Webster's definition.
Jesus did not come in Spirit but in flesh. He will return in the same flesh he left in. Sinless, justified, sanctified, holy, with his holy assembly. Are you prepared or will you condemn his temple?

Could Jesus sin?

if you say no! it was impossible!

Then for you he did not come in the Flesh and therefore you are under 1 John 4:3

Sorry justaname you cannot run from this truth and eventually you will need to come to the conclusion that Jesus Heb 4:15

Otherwise he did not destroy the enmity in the his flesh.

Also the blood of Christ has lost its power to redeem those under condemnation because as you say loud and clear...Jesus was not under the condemnation of death and therefore you must believe also:

Jesus couldn’t be tempted James 1:13-15 Heb 4:15 Heb 2:14
Jesus couldn’t sin 2 Sam 7:14
Jesus couldn’t die Acts 17:3
Jesus was not in the same flesh as you and I Rom 8:3 2 Cor 5:21 Heb 2:14-15 Gal 4:4

John 19:30 I wonder what Jesus meant when he said "it is finished"

What was finished!!!

The enmity in his flesh had been nailed to the cross and no more would it have dominion over him, the victory was complete and now he could enter the rest in His Father which he longed for, even as a child at the age of 12 he taught in the synagogues. He long to be with his Heavenly Father.

Maybe you cannot see the day when Jesus will change your mortality to immortatliy and maybe Jesus will give you the opporutiy to say “It is finished” flesh, sin and death is swallowed up...

When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”1 Cor 15:54

For Christ his battle against sin, devil, satan, temptations, flesh, and worldy powers was over. The moment he said “it is finished” the victory over the emnity in him was won.

And he rose victorious, as shall we.

Alethos