The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

[Spiritual Israelite]

YOu said it has been fulfilled, I am asking you to show me when!

Tell me how you are defining the word "fulfilled" exactly? These discussion are pointless if we are not defining terms the same way. In terms of establishing the new covenant so that it was in effect, that was fulfilled by Christ when He shed His blood of the new covenant. But, someone is not saved and does not have their sins forgiven and covered by His blood of the new covenant until they put their faith in Him. So, I guess you could say it's fulfilled for each person when they become saved in that sense. So, what are you talking about exactly when you talk about it being fulfilled?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It means exactly what I said. Jesus blood is the price paid to insure the Covenant would go into effect.

LOL. You did not say that before. Your other comment was more vague than this one. How do you figure that new covenant wasn't in effect immediately upon Jesus shedding His blood? He shed His blood of the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins, right (Matt 26:28)? Couldn't people have their sins forgiven by His blood immediately after He died?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually, I think he's quite polite.

Then you haven't seen the insulting comments that he's made. I have.

He does however believe that the scriptures are a crystal ball to primarily reveal the ins and outs of the present day political trajectory in Palestine and cosmic activity.

Yeah, he's not the only one who thinks every current event is fulfilling a Bible prophecy.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Justin Martyr

Dialogue with Trypho

If, therefore, God proclaimed a new covenant which was to be instituted, and this for a light of the nations, we see and are persuaded that men approach God, leaving their idols and other unrighteousness, through the name of Him who was crucified, Jesus Christ, and abide by their confession even unto death, and maintain piety. Moreover, by the works and by the attendant miracles, it is possible for all to understand that He is the new law, and the new covenant, and the expectation of those who out of every people wait for the good things of God.


Irenaeus of Lyons

Against Heresies Book IV

And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament...

And those of them who declare that God would make a new covenant with men, not such as that which He made with the fathers at Mount Horeb, and would give to men a new heart and a new spirit; and again, "And remember ye not the things of old: behold, I make new things which shall now arise, and ye shall know it; and I will make a way in the desert, and riven in a dry land, to give drink to my chosen people, my people whom I have acquired, that they may show forth my praise," -plainly announced that liberty which distinguishes the new covenant, and the new wine which is put into new bottles, [that is], the faith which is in Christ, by which He has proclaimed the way of righteousness sprung up in the desert, and the streams of the Holy Spirit in a dry land, to give water to the elect people of God, whom He has acquired, that they might show forth His praise...


There are two.

Your turn.

Just one from the entirety of post-apostolic pre-1800 historical orthodox Christianity who agrees with you that the New Covenant is not fulfilled.

Just one.

Not interested in the writings of the early church Fathers. they are not Scripture. I am interested in what Scripture says and because you and Spiritual Israelite are adamant in saying the New Covenant is fulfilled, I have been asking to show when the decreed by God provisions were fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Please show when these terms of the Covenant were fulfilled by god and you win.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL. You did not say that before. Your other comment was more vague than this one. How do you figure that new covenant wasn't in effect immediately upon Jesus shedding His blood? He shed His blood of the new covenant for the forgiveness of sins, right (Matt 26:28)? Couldn't people have their sins forgiven by His blood immediately after He died?

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Here is the covenant and its terms. show me when they went into effect.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't understand what that means. All believers are under the new covenant because there is no other way for anyone to have their sins forgiven except by the blood of the new covenant that Christ shed long ago. All of us under the new covenant know the Lord.

Well I am taking the bible at its word as written. for that is what it means as written. do you believe God meant something other than the Words He inspired?

You read what it says without having any idea of what it means. I apparently am unable to help you see what it means. Ask God to show you. You currently have no understanding whatsoever about the new covenant.

I know what every single one of those words mean and what they mean when put together in a sentence. It is you who are saying they mean something other than what is written. If it doesn't mean what it says, how can you be so sure sure your other meaning is the correct one as you are now leaving the normal uses of the Words for some ethereal definition.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Tell me how you are defining the word "fulfilled" exactly? These discussion are pointless if we are not defining terms the same way. In terms of establishing the new covenant so that it was in effect, that was fulfilled by Christ when He shed His blood of the new covenant. But, someone is not saved and does not have their sins forgiven and covered by His blood of the new covenant until they put their faith in Him. So, I guess you could say it's fulfilled for each person when they become saved in that sense. So, what are you talking about exactly when you talk about it being fulfilled?

Exactly as the definition defines it:

plēroō (Key)
The KJV translates Strong's G4137 in the following manner: fulfil (51x), fill (19x), be
full (7x), complete (2x), end (2x), miscellaneous (9x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
   1. to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
      1. I abound, I am liberally supplied
2. to render full, i.e. to complete
   1. to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
   2. to consummate: a number
      1. to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
      2. to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
   3. to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
      1. of matters of duty: to perform, execute
      2. of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
      3. to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
   4. I cannot use the word in any other way and be faithful to Gods word.

I Cannot use the word in any other way and remain faithful to gods Word.

so if the New Covenant has gone in to effect as you and covenantee demand, just show me when the terms of the covenant went into practice.

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[covenantee]

Not interested in the writings of the early church Fathers. they are not Scripture. I am interested in what Scripture says and because you and Spiritual Israelite are adamant in saying the New Covenant is fulfilled, I have been asking to show when the decreed by God provisions were fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-13​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Please show when these terms of the Covenant were fulfilled by god and you win.

Not interested in modernist revisionist dispensational delusions of an unfulfilled New Covenant.

They are neither Scripture nor legitimate interpretations of Scripture.

I want to see credible evidence that anyone in post-apostolic pre-1800 orthodox Christianity believed such delusions.

Provide such evidence and you win.

But if only modernist revisionist dispensationalists after 1800 believe such delusions, then that is classic cultism.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well I am taking the bible at its word as written. for that is what it means as written. do you believe God meant something other than the Words He inspired?

Of course not. You just don't understand what is written. You apparently don't believe Paul when he said this...

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You think we should interpret scripture like "the natural man" who relies only on "man's wisdom" instead of getting discernment from the Holy Spirit, so that's why you think the interpretations of those who do not rely on "man's wisdom" and instead rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding are foolishness. You don't want to accept the NT authors explanations of the fulfillment of OT prophecies, but I fully accept them instead of insist on a wooden literal fulfillment based only on my own wisdom instead.

I know what every single one of those words mean and what they mean when put together in a sentence.

You do not. The Holy Spirit does and He revealed that to the author of Hebrews (likely Paul) and you do not accept the explanation of the fulfillment of the prophecy given by the author of Hebrews by way of the Holy Spirit.

It is you who are saying they mean something other than what is written.

Wrong. I am going by what is written in Hebrews 8 to 10 and accepting it. You are not.

If it doesn't mean what it says, how can you be so sure sure your other meaning is the correct one as you are now leaving the normal uses of the Words for some ethereal definition.

I trust the words of the author of Hebrews which were inspired by the Holy Spirit and you do not.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Hebrews 8:8-13​

​

King James Version​

​

​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Here is the covenant and its terms. show me when they went into effect.

Did you not read the two verses which came before that?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

This says that Jesus "is the mediator of a better covenant", which is the new covenant. Then it says the new covenant "was established upon better promises". For the new covenant to be established means it was put into effect. And the way it was put into effect should be obvious. It was by the blood of the new covenant which was the blood of Christ (Matthew 26:28).

Jesus took away the first (old) covenant by making it obsolete and put the new covenant into effect with "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.".

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not interested in modernist revisionist dispensational delusions of an unfulfilled New Covenant.

They are neither Scripture nor legitimate interpretations of Scripture.

I want to see credible evidence that anyone in post-apostolic pre-1800 orthodox Christianity believed such delusions.

Provide such evidence and you win.

But if only modernist revisionist dispensationalists after 1800 believe such delusions, then that is classic cultism.

So you have no answer other than to hurl your vapid insults. Okay then I see through y0our phoniness.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Of course not. You just don't understand what is written. You apparently don't believe Paul when he said this...

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You think we should interpret scripture like "the natural man" who relies only on "man's wisdom" instead of getting discernment from the Holy Spirit, so that's why you think the interpretations of those who do not rely on "man's wisdom" and instead rely on the Holy Spirit for understanding are foolishness. You don't want to accept the NT authors explanations of the fulfillment of OT prophecies, but I fully accept them instead of insist on a wooden literal fulfillment based only on my own wisdom instead.

So you are one of those! God inspired words to be spokenm and written, but He didn't mean what He said and had wriotten and actually spoke in code that you have to mystically know what He really meant.

How do you know what you believe what He reallly meant is what He really meant? Others say different.

How can you call the JW's and Mormons wrong. Just like you they believe they have been given the sp[iritual wherwwithal to unlock the real meanings of the words God wrote.

How do we even knopw you are saying what you really mean? Maybe we have to spiritually discern your words to find out you are not meaning what you are writing.

Well why are you right and all the others who claim the same gift as you are wrong?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Did you not read the two verses which came before that?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

This says that Jesus "is the mediator of a better covenant", which is the new covenant. Then it says the new covenant "was established upon better promises". For the new covenant to be established means it was put into effect. And the way it was put into effect should be obvious. It was by the blood of the new covenant which was the blood of Christ (Matthew 26:28).

Jesus took away the first (old) covenant by making it obsolete and put the new covenant into effect with "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.".

Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Well as you do not accept the words as they are defined I understand why you point to these. But as they are words with specific meanings they deny you rpoint.

A Mediator is one who is going between two or more parties to get them to agree on a contract or in this case a covenant. If the parties have agreed to the covenant there is no need for a mediator!

sorry but you use extremely sloppy hermeneutics and language skills and exegesis.

You reinterpret the bible based on you rown personal eisegesis or that of another who reinterpreted for you.

As for Hebrews 10:9 the phrase ..."he may establish" is key. it is the aorist active subjunctive. but as you do not care what words actually mean but "spiritually mean" I would assume that matters not to you.

YOu reject that the new Covenant is with the house of Israel and Judah. I cannot believe that it is meant for the church accordsing to your rules, for I do not know what you really mean.

You reject that when the covenant is in effect all Jews will know Jesus from the least to the greatest. we cannot be sure what you mean, for we must waith for the Holy Spirit to give us the "spiritual meanings" of your words, for the literal are unimportant, according to you.

 

[covenantee]

So you have no answer other than to hurl your vapid insults. Okay then I see through y0our phoniness.

What to believe?

1. Less than 200 years of modernist revisionist dispensational delusionism
2. More than 1700 years of united historical Christian orthodoxy

Hint?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you are one of those!

One of those who believes the deep things of God have to be spiritually discerned as Paul said? Yes, absolutely I am one of those.

God inspired words to be spokenm and written, but He didn't mean what He said and had wriotten and actually spoke in code that you have to mystically know what He really meant.

You are applying the understanding that the Holy Spirit gives us, that Paul talked about, to mysticism? What is wrong with you? You need to show the Holy Spirit more respect than this. I am not saying the truth is hidden in scripture. It's there for all to see. But, what you don't accept are the plain words of passages like Hebrews 8:6-7 which says that the new covenant "was established" on better promises than the old covenant.

How do you know what you believe what He reallly meant is what He really meant? Others say different.

How do any of us know? Are we told to rely on our own understanding or on God's understanding that He gives to us (Proverbs 3:5-6)? Some things in scripture are obvious. Paul referred to those things as spiritual milk (1 Cor 3:2). Those that are not so obvious Paul called spiritual "meat" or "solid food". We need the Holy Spirit to help us understand the solid food (1 Cor 3:2) or "deep things of God" (1 Cor 2:10).

How can you call the JW's and Mormons wrong.

By showing them scripture which proves them wrong.

Just like you they believe they have been given the sp[iritual wherwwithal to unlock the real meanings of the words God wrote.

Is that not what you think of yourself? In any given passage we need to discern whether it's literal, symbolic, metaphorical, poetic, Apocalyptic or hyberbolic text. How else do you discern that except with God's help?

How do we even knopw you are saying what you really mean? Maybe we have to spiritually discern your words to find out you are not meaning what you are writing.

LOL. This is obviously just a game to you. I don't know why I waste my time on you.

Well why are you right and all the others who claim the same gift as you are wrong?

Many people agree with me, so it's not true that all others are wrong. Why do you think you are right?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well as you do not accept the words as they are defined I understand why you point to these. But as they are words with specific meanings they deny you rpoint.

A Mediator is one who is going between two or more parties to get them to agree on a contract or in this case a covenant. If the parties have agreed to the covenant there is no need for a mediator!

sorry but you use extremely sloppy hermeneutics and language skills and exegesis.

That is how I feel about you. So, should we continue insulting each other or agree to disagree and move on?

You reinterpret the bible based on you rown personal eisegesis or that of another who reinterpreted for you.

Wrong. I accept what the NT authors tell us. If they say the new covenant has been established and in effect, which they do, then I accept it. You don't.

As for Hebrews 10:9 the phrase ..."he may establish" is key. it is the aorist active subjunctive. but as you do not care what words actually mean but "spiritually mean" I would assume that matters not to you.

LOL. Why do you ignore Hebrews 8:6? You will do anything to deny what scripture teaches.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Tell me how you will change "was established" to "will be established". I can't wait to see what you come up with.

As for Hebrews 10:9, here is another translation of the verse.

Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second.

What that verse is saying is that He put an end to the old covenant in order to establish the new covenant. It does not say He would establish it some time in the future. At the same time He put an end to the first (old) covenant, He established the second (new) covenant, which is why Hebrews 8:6 says it "was established" (past tense) on better promises than the first (old) covenant.

YOu reject that the new Covenant is with the house of Israel and Judah.

I do not. That is a blatant lie. You forget that Gentiles are included in it because of the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ....19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household.

I cannot believe that it is meant for the church accordsing to your rules, for I do not know what you really mean.

Look above. Gentile believers are included by the blood of Christ. It couldn't be more clear. The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ that He shed for the forgiveness of sins (Matt 26:28)! Did He die just for Jews or also for Gentiles?

You reject that when the covenant is in effect all Jews will know Jesus from the least to the greatest.

No, all who are under the new covenant and saved by the blood of Jesus know Jesus from the least to the greatest.

we cannot be sure what you mean, for we must waith for the Holy Spirit to give us the "spiritual meanings" of your words, for the literal are unimportant, according to you.

I'm telling you what I mean in plain words, so stop being childish.

 

[covenantee]

A Mediator is one who is going between two or more parties to get them to agree on a contract or in this case a covenant. If the parties have agreed to the covenant there is no need for a mediator!

If you'd get your understanding from Scripture instead of your misunderstanding from Darby&Scofield, you'd avoid the delusionism that deceives you.

Hebrews 9:15 KJV
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:15 NASB
For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

It is clear from Hebrews 9:15 that Christ's Role as the Mediator of the New Testament/Covenant is for they which are called/those who have been called; i.e. believers for whom acceptance of the New Testament/Covenant is already in force and effect.

There's no having "to get them to agree on a contract or in this case a covenant". They already agree.

Christ's Role as Mediator for they which are called/those who have been called is that of Divine Intercessor. Strong expresses it succinctly:

"The role of μεσίτης is not merely legal or transactional but deeply relational, emphasizing the personal and transformative nature of Christ's mediation. It involves not only the reconciliation of humanity to God but also the ongoing intercession of Christ on behalf of believers, as seen in Hebrews 9:15: "For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance.""

Toss Darby&Scofield into the dumpster.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What to believe?

1. Less than 200 years of modernist revisionist dispensational delusionism
2. More than 1700 years of united historical Christian orthodoxy

Hint?

I choose to believe the bible as written and ot how covenant theology has rewritten it.

 

[covenantee]

I choose to believe the bible as written and ot how covenant theology has rewritten it.

You believe Darby&Scofield modernist revisionist dispensational delusionism.

Toss it into the dumpster.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Wrong. I accept what the NT authors tell us. If they say the new covenant has been established and in effect, which they do, then I accept it. You don't.

Wrong. You accept what appears in the English without bothering to learn what the original authors worte in the tenses, moods, voices etc. If you bothered you would know better.

But once again you have failed to answer when the terms of the New Covenant went into effect. Once again the New covenant as written in Gods Word:

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

YOu have accused me of not knowing what is written and you have failed to show when the covenant terms went into effect. You have failed to point to any historic events and said- "Here" this is where no one has to teach whoever from the least to the greatest, to show this has been established and gone into effect.

YOu say I should not understand this as written, but fail to show what it should mean in your "spiritually discerned" meaning.