The Future Great Tribulation Is 3.5 Years Long, The Beast And Two Witnesses Will Be On This Earth In Power Until The End

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, the Day of the Lord is not the day of Jesus's return.

Yes, it is. Do you deny that He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night at His return? Scripture clearly teaches that.

The day of Jesus's return will be day 2520 of the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

No, it will not.

And the resurrection/rapture event will not be post-trib, as you are describing.

Yes, it will. I've proven this over and over again, but you are unteachable.

"the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him" is referring to the resurrection/rapture event.

Yes, and Paul also describes that as "the day of Christ" or "the day of the Lord".

The rapture will take place before the Day of the Lord begins when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4. See my chart down below regarding the rapture timing - anytime between today and the transgression of desolation act.

Wrong. You are very badly butchering that verse. Paul made it clear that the day of Christ's coming and our gathering to Him, which he called "the day of Christ" or "the day of the Lord", will not happen until a mass falling away and revealing of the man of sin happen first. Your doctrine denies what Paul clearly taught. Paul very clearly indicated that "sudden destruction" from which unbelievers "shall not escape" will occur upon the arrival of the unexpected day of the Lord, but you instead have some imaginary future Antichrist committing the transgression of desolation act, which is not "sudden destruction" at all, occurring upon the arrival of the day of the Lord.

The resurrection/rapture is in 1Thessalonians5:9-11, before the Day of the Lord begins, when God's wrath will begin to be poured out.

1Thessalonians5:
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

No, God's wrath will occur upon the arrival of the unexpected day of the Lord in the form of "sudden desruction" from which unbelievers "shall not escape". You are not looking at the context of 1 Thessalonians 5:9, which has to do with us not being appointed to the wrath (sudden destruction) that will occur on the day Jesus returns because our bodies will be changed to be immortal and we will be gathered to Him in the air instead.

his present earth and its heaven will be completely destroyed right before the Great White Throne Judgement as I show on my chart below. No, its' destruction is not the "sudden destruction" of 1Thessalonians5. That "sudden destruction" is referring to the damage done during the great tribulation, also on my chart below.

I don't look at your useless, inaccurate charts. You are not looking at the actual text carefully because you're apparently too busy making charts instead. How can you try to say that the "sudden destruction" Paul says will occur upon the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night is different than the destruction that Peter said will occur upon the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night? They are clearly talking about the same event. Only extreme doctrinal bias can cause someone to think otherwise.

 

[Douggg]

No, God's wrath will occur upon the arrival of the unexpected day of the Lord in the form of "sudden desruction" from which unbelievers "shall not escape".

So you are claiming the 7 vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16 all take place on the day of Jesus's return ?

 

[Douggg]

I don't look at your useless, inaccurate charts. You are not looking at the actual text carefully because you're apparently too busy making charts instead. How can you try to say that the "sudden destruction" Paul says will occur upon the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night is different than the destruction that Peter said will occur upon the unexpected arrival of the day of the Lord as a thief in the night? They are clearly talking about the same event. Only extreme doctrinal bias can cause someone to think otherwise.

You are misstating what Peter said. You are not looking at the actual text carefully.

Peter did not say "upon". Instead, Peter said in 2Peter3:10 "in the which" - meaning sometime during the day of the Lord. Revelation 20:11 pinpoints when this present earth and its heavens will be destroyed.
Look at my chart down below.


10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So you are claiming the 7 vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16 all take place on the day of Jesus's return ?

No, I'm not. I have said many times before, including at least a few times to you, that I see the seals, trumpets and vials as all being parallel to each other. So, I would only relate the 7th vial to the day of Jesus's return.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are misstating what Peter said. You are not looking at the actual text carefully.

LOL. Good one, Dougggggg.

Peter did not say "upon". Instead, Peter said in 2Peter3:10 "in the which" - meaning sometime during the day of the Lord.

Give me a break. You are not looking at the context. It says the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, which means it will come unexpectedly. In your view, how do you think the day of the Lord will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night? What do you think that means?

In Matthew 24:35-39 Jesus talked about how no know knows the day or hour of His second coming and that the day He comes will be like the day Noah entered the ark and the flood came and destroyed all unbelievers. So, Peter wasn't the only one to teach that unexpected mass destruction will occur on the day Jesus returns. Revelation 19 is quite clear about that, also. As well as 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9. The reason that the Lord Jesus will return on the day of the Lord unexpectedly as a thief in the night is because He doesn't want His enemies to have any warning beforehand about the day or hour that He is going to come and take vengeance on them. He will come upon them unexpectedly as a thief in the night bringing sudden destruction upon them from which they shall not escape (1 Thess 5:2-3) by way of fire coming down on the entire earth.

Revelation 20:11 pinpoints when this present earth and its heavens will be destroyed.
Look at my chart down below.

LOL. This has to be some kind of game you're playing. I've told you many times that I don't care about your charts and here you are telling me to look at your chart. No, I won't look at it because I know it will make no sense and will inaccurately portray scripture.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 24:35-39 Jesus talked about how no know knows the day or hour of His second coming

Matthew 24:35-39 Jesus is referring to the rapture, not His second coming ?

Do you really think at the end of the great tribulation, people will be at ease - eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage ?

LOL. This has to be some kind of game you're playing. I've told you many times that I don't care about your charts and here you are telling me to look at your chart. No, I won't look at it because I know it will make no sense and will inaccurately portray scripture.

The big mistake you are making is not realizing that the Day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour day - but instead is a never ending period of time that will begin when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

The events on my time line chart are properly placed. Notice the red square last rebellion of the nations.

The destruction of this present earth and its heaven will be right after that, Revelation 20:11.

 

[Douggg]

The reason that the Lord Jesus will return on the day of the Lord unexpectedly as a thief in the night is because He doesn't want His enemies to have any warning beforehand about the day or hour that He is going to come and take vengeance on them.

You are not looking at the actual text carefully. In Revelation 19:19, the kings of earth will have gathered their armies to specifically make war against Jesus and His army of heaven. So they will know that Jesus is coming and they have prepared to make war against Him.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

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This is how they will know. The sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, Matthew 24:30a, the sixth seal event of Revelation 6. In reaction, the kings of the earth will gather their armies at Armageddon for 45 days to prepare to make war against Jesus.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24:35-39 Jesus is referring to the rapture, not His second coming ?

Do you really think at the end of the great tribulation, people will be at ease - eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage ?

You are apparently not looking at the text carefully at all.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

First, Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away and then said "of that day and hour knoweth no man". What day and hour? The day that heaven and earth pass away. Then notice what He said right after that. He talked about the days before His second coming as being like the days of Noah before the flood, but then notice how He said the day Noah entered the ark the flood came upon them unexpectedly and destroyed them all and Jesus said "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be". So, Jesus indicated that on the day He comes, which no one knows the day or hour, heaven and earth will pass away and all unbelievers will be destroyed just as all unbelievers were destroyed when the flood came.

So, yes, He was referring to the rapture, but you somehow miss that He will destroy all unbelievers at the same time. You have to completely ignore the context of what He said in order to miss that.

Jesus indicated that mass destruction will occur unexpectedly at His second coming just as both Paul and Peter did in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12, respectively.

The big mistake you are making

LOL. I'm not making a big mistake. You are. You are very clearly not reading the text carefully at all. But, I think that is typical of you. You are too busy making charts instead of actually studying the text carefully and looking at the context.

is not realizing that the Day of the Lord is not a single 24 hour day - but instead is a never ending period of time that will begin when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act described in 2Thessalonians2:4.

That's not taught anywhere in scripture. Both Paul and Peter indicated that mass destruction will come unexpectedly upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. That destruction will not go on for eternity. Nowhere does it describe the day of the Lord as being "a never ending period of time". You are making that up. Paul indicated that what will happen on the day of the Lord is that Jesus will come and we will be gathered to Him and He will destroy His enemies at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12).

The events on my time line chart are properly placed.

Not even close.

Notice the red square last rebellion of the nations.

I can't notice something I know would be a waste of time to look at. I have looked at some of your charts in the past and I disagreed with them all and I know it's a waste of time to look at them. Plus, I feel like I might have a seizure at some point if I kept looking at them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are not looking at the actual text carefully.

That's very ironic coming from you. I think you pay much more attention to trying to make your charts look good than you do looking at the actual text carefully.

In Revelation 19:19, the kings of earth will have gathered their armies to specifically make war against Jesus and His army of heaven. So they will know that Jesus is coming and they have prepared to make war against Him.

Revelation 19:
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

You always miss the symbolism. You are not able to differentiate between literal and symbolic text. There will be no literal gathering in a literal place where people will go to wait for Jesus to come so that they can make war against Him and His army. That is utterly ludicrous. It's all symbolism. What it symbolizes is all of the opposition that will be going on against Christ's church in the days before He comes as a result of an increase in deception and wickedness no longer being restrained and a mass falling away from the faith, as Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. How can you think that people will know when Jesus is coming when He Himself is quoted as of the time of the sixth vial as saying He is coming as a thief?

Revelation 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. 16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Why would Jesus remind everyone that He is going to be coming as a thief at that point if people are going to know when He is coming? Him coming as a thief means He is coming unexpectedly. So, you have to keep that in mind when reading Revelation 19 instead of contradicting Jesus Himself by trying to say that people will be expecting Him when He comes. No, they will not. No one knows the day or hour because Jesus is coming as a thief in the night and people will be destroyed unexpectedly when He comes just as Jesus Himself indicated in Matthew 24:35-39 when He compared the destruction that will occur at His coming to the flood coming upon unbelievers unexpectedly in Noah's day. It will be such that no one will have any chance to escape at that point once He comes, as Paul indicated in 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3. Once He descends from heaven and enters the earth's atmosphere the destruction will be "sudden" (quick), according to Paul. Otherwise, it would make no sense for Jesus, even as of the time of the sixth vial, to say that He is coming as a thief.

 

[Douggg]

I can't notice something I know would be a waste of time to look at. I have looked at some of your charts in the past and I disagreed with them all and I know it's a waste of time to look at them. Plus, I feel like I might have a seizure at some point if I kept looking at them.

So you don't believe in the last rebellion of the nations in Revelation 20:7-9 (the red square on my chart) ?

Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

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[Spiritual Israelite]

So you don't believe in the last rebellion of the nations in Revelation 20:7-9 (the red square on my chart) ?

Revelation 20:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Douggg. There is something very wrong with you. Why in the world would you ask me if I don't believe in something written in scripture? What if I asked you a question like that? How would you feel about it? It's offensive. The issue isn't that you or I don't believe some things that are taught in the Bible. We each believe everything written in the Bible, as we each understand it. But, we interpret many things in the Bible differently.

So, to answer your ridiculous question, yes, I do believe in what is written in Revelation 20:7-9. But, I do not interpret it the way you do. I see it as being parallel to passages like Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 14:18-20, Revelation 16:12-21 and Revelation 19:11-21.

 

[Douggg]

I see it as being parallel to passages like Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 14:18-20, Revelation 16:12-21 and Revelation 19:11-21.

How do you see Revelation 20:7. Before or after the one thousand year reign of Jesus ?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Matthew 24:35-39 Jesus is referring to the rapture, not His second coming ?

Do you really think at the end of the great tribulation, people will be at ease - eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage ?

Douggg, you don't understand that the great tribulation that occurs before Jesus returns is primarily spiritual in nature, not physical (other than the persecution of believers). Just read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. What does Paul talk about as occurring before Jesus returns? Physical disasters and such? No. He talks about an increased level of deception resulting in a mass falling away from the faith because of wickedness no longer being restrained. Jesus also talked in Matthew 24:23-26 about an increase in false Christs and prophets before His second coming and they would be so deceptive that they could even deceive the elect, if possible. So, with such an increase in deception, apostasy and wickedness, why would you not think that people would be at ease in the days before Jesus returns while not being aware of what is coming (the wrath of the Lamb/Christ)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How do you see Revelation 20:7. Before or after the one thousand year reign of Jesus ?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Douggg, are you just playing games here? It's obviously after because it explicitly says so. If you're not interested in being serious, just let me know so that I don't waste my time trying to have a serious discussion with you.

Do you not know how Amillennialists interpret scripture by now? If not, what is your excuse? Why would you want to be ignorant about a doctrine that you try to debate against? It's impossible to refute something that you don't even understand.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, you don't understand that the great tribulation that occurs before Jesus returns is primarily spiritual in nature, not physical (other than the persecution of believers).

Spiritual ?

No flesh on earth will survive the great tribulation unless God cuts it short of that happening.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

People will not be at ease during the great tribulation, marrying and giving in marriage.

The rapture will take place before the great tribulation begins.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

Spiritual ?

No flesh on earth will survive the great tribulation unless God cuts it short of that happening.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

People will not be at ease during the great tribulation, marrying and giving in marriage.

The rapture will take place before the great tribulation begins.

Why are you worried about the Rapture as it does not include yourself

 

[Douggg]

Why are you worried about the Rapture as it does not include yourself

I pray every day that Jesus come soon for the rapture and in the twinkling of an eye I will be gone from this world to forever be with the Lord.

 

[Jay Ross]

I pray every day that Jesus come soon for the rapture and in the twinkling of an eye I will be gone from this world to forever be with the Lord.

Douggg you are praying that you will not be refined by the tribulation that you will receive, but rather that you be whisked away so that you do not have to experience God's correction of your soul.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg you are praying that you will not be refined by the tribulation that you will receive, but rather that you be whisked away so that you do not have to experience God's correction of your soul.

Luke 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

I pray every day that Jesus come soon for the rapture and in the twinkling of an eye I will be gone from this world to forever be with the Lord.

Are you declaring yourself the elect of God?
what of Matthew 5:5 ''Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.''
what of the resurrection of the dead ? to then live here on this improved earth ?