The Garden

[Helen]

Yeah, I think the clothing God made for A&E fits more with Ego

I have always believed the “ covering “ that God provided for them , was a foreshadowing of the ‘covering of sin’ in the OT ...the blood of bulls and goats .....covering sin.

 

[amadeus]

It sounds to me like some others here have at least doubts about who the serpent and satan and the devil and lucifer really are.

Did God not want us to fall? The very question when I consider it carefully brings forth a quandary in me. I guess the reason for that is the way that God made me [us] and they way we have decided how God is. I say we have decided because of the way we sometimes act and talk about Him.

How much do we really know about God?
How much do we really know about ourselves?

A man and a woman were made and placed in a beautiful garden which seemingly only had one potential flaw. The garden's flaw was apparently the tree from which Adam and Eve partook in spite what God had said about it. So then was there also a flaw in Adam and Eve which allowed them to seriously consider disobedience? Why God, why have you done all of this or set it up as a possibility?

God according scripture does not tempt people

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." James 1:13-14

God tempts no man, but did He not make man and put him in a situation where he would be tempted? Why did He make man that way and why did He make such a tree that looked good, but in fact was the way to man's downfall?

Lots of questions with not many answers that explain why.

 

[101G]

I'm very sure that God is not in the failing business. teaching is not tempting. we can see this in the natural world. sometimes we must be exposed to the things of the world and not be protected in a bubble, or in a control confinement. God knows what he is doing. if he made us subject to vanity, by his reason then I trust him. I'm glad I don't know everything as my father from day one. to learn him is the best experience I have had, having, and will have. Hos 4:6

 

[amadeus]

I'm very sure that God is not in the failing business.

God knows all of the answers to all of the questions we may ask, but sometimes He simply does not want us to have those answers. I understand this and I just keep on keepin' on every day because I believe that He is and that He is deserving of much better than we are able to give. No, He does not ever fail. Eventually if we stay with Him He will give us all that we need and then some.

teaching is not tempting.

Sometimes things are clear as a bell, but sometimes when we get to full of ourselves instead of overflowing with Him we start shifting the wrong direction. Some nights I have insomnia and my solace and rest is to be found in Him. I get up and go to my desk and open my Bible. I begin praying and reading and after a while I am ready to return to bed and sleep a good sleep. No teaching is not tempting. I believe what was wrote when it states that God does not tempt us.

we can see this in the natural world. sometimes we must be exposed to the things of the world and not be protected in a bubble, or in a control confinement. God knows what he is doing. if he made us subject to vanity, by his reason then I trust him. I'm glad I don't know everything as my father from day one. to learn him is the best experience I have had, having, and will have. Hos 4:6

It is very difficult at times for me to give the reins to me to Him, but that is what we must do in order to proceed with Him. In my flesh at times I think that I can do this thing, forgetting that without Him I really cannot. The good thing is that for God all things are possible. If we remain always on His side, He will accomplish in us all that is necessary. Unfortunately, the old brain keeps on working and calculating on its own and bringing up these quandaries. God has none of those. How much like Him are we now?

 

[101G]

It is very difficult at times for me to give the reins to me to Him, but that is what we must do in order to proceed with Him.

this is true "WE MUST SUBMIT".

be blessed and I encourage you to keep on seeking the Lord.

 

[jimd]

It sounds to me like some others here have at least doubts about who the serpent and satan and the devil and lucifer really are.

It seems to me its because most are unwilling or unable to recognize a metaphor or figure of speech.

A man and a woman were made and placed in a beautiful garden which seemingly only had one potential flaw. The garden's flaw was apparently the tree from which Adam and Eve partook in spite what God had said about it. So then was there also a flaw in Adam and Eve which allowed them to seriously consider disobedience? Why God, why have you done all of this or set it up as a possibility?

What you refer to in Adam & Eve as a flaw is in reality a freedom to choose. Can you think of any way God could have made humans without this freedom that would not have made us primarily robots? As for the two trees, some recognize the tree we can eat from/live by and live forever is Christ, Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

As for the tree of knowledge of good and evil Paul makes it very clear that if we try to live by the law, which is perfect, it will kill us, because we are not perfect. So the law is the only thing I know of in scripture that if we try to live by (without Christ) will kill us, jut as it killed Adam & Eve, they chose to eat of the wrong tree, So we see we can chose to live through Christ or we can chose to keep the law on our own. If you were God, how would you have done it??? Do you think your way would be better than Gods way? Of course not!

 

[amadeus]

It seems to me its because most are unwilling or unable to recognize a metaphor or figure of speech.

What you refer to in Adam & Eve as a flaw is in reality a freedom to choose.

I agree it is what people sometimes call free will. But, they only really have two choices: God's Way or their own ways. Without freewill there would have been no sin and no condemnation. Use of the word flaw might cause misunderstanding and I apologize for that. I am also only a man.

Can you think of any way God could have made humans without this freedom that would not have made us primarily robots? As for the two trees, some recognize the tree we can eat from/live by and live forever is Christ, Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Jesus is indeed the Tree of Life, but to partake of Him and live forever with God, we must pas through the Way that God has provided by His Son and the Holy Ghost. Jesus is the Life, but without the leading and power of the Holy Ghost, we can never reach the end of our road with Him.

As for the tree of knowledge of good and evil Paul makes it very clear that if we try to live by the law, which is perfect, it will kill us, because we are not perfect. So the law is the only thing I know of in scripture that if we try to live by (without Christ) will kill us, jut as it killed Adam & Eve, they chose to eat of the wrong tree, So we see we can chose to live through Christ or we can chose to keep the law on our own. If you were God, how would you have done it??? Do you think your way would be better than Gods way? Of course not!

Yes through Christ is the only Way:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

 

[jimd]

I agree it is what people sometimes call free will. But, they only really have two choices: God's Way or their own ways. Without freewill there would have been no sin and no condemnation. Use of the word flaw might cause misunderstanding and I apologize for that. I am also only a man.



Jesus is indeed the Tree of Life, but to partake of Him and live forever with God, we must pas through the Way that God has provided by His Son and the Holy Ghost. Jesus is the Life, but without the leading and power of the Holy Ghost, we can never reach the end of our road with Him.


Yes through Christ is the only Way:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12

So, do you agree the snake and the two trees are metaphors for fleshly nature, Christ and the law?

 

[amadeus]

So, do you agree the snake and the two trees are metaphors for fleshly nature, Christ and the law?

I generally don't lean toward belief in a serpent or devil or satan outside of man himself. As to the Tree of Life, I usually will say simply that it is Jesus along with the following verses written by Solomon to help clarify:

"She [wisdom] is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." Prov 3:18
"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." Prov 11:30

"Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life." Prov 13:12
"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit." Prov 15:4

The other tree is the one we took hold of instead of following the Way of God so perfectly depicted by Jesus as he walked this planet in flesh.

I usually steer clear of words like "metaphor" because I usually have to look them up to understand them.

I guess that at times there is symbolism in my understanding of what is written, but I do believe that right understanding comes to us by the Holy Spirit. When we are wrong [and I certainly have been there], then it is the old man of me who put forth his understanding while I was quenching the Spirit.

 

[mjrhealth]

God could of just created a bunch of Robots, and given them everything they needed, but He would not of got children that loved Him for who He is but for what He gives them. There are plenty of very rich people in this world, who just give to there children, supposedly out of love, but it spoils teh children and usually causes them to go way off teh deep end. But God gave man choice, you can "choose " to Love me. for that is what God desires children after His own heart. Like David. A screw up but knew God and who He is. It all comes down to this,

Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Love it has being around since God is, and will be here when all this passes away. As long as God is, love will always be.

 

[jimd]

I generally don't lean toward belief in a serpent or devil or satan outside of man himself. As to the Tree of Life, I usually will say simply that it is Jesus along with the following verses written by Solomon to help clarify:

"She [wisdom] is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her." Prov 3:18
"The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." Prov 11:30

"Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life." Prov 13:12
"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit." Prov 15:4

The other tree is the one we took hold of instead of following the Way of God so perfectly depicted by Jesus as he walked this planet in flesh.

I usually steer clear of words like "metaphor" because I usually have to look them up to understand them.

I guess that at times there is symbolism in my understanding of what is written, but I do believe that right understanding comes to us by the Holy Spirit. When we are wrong [and I certainly have been there], then it is the old man of me who put forth his understanding while I was quenching the Spirit.

That is fine, most folks shy away from figurative interpretation because it admittedly can easily be abused but if used correctly it can be a great help with our understanding of scripture. For instance it helps me to understand that even though God created us with a fleshly nature, that is good, not bad as some suppose. It helps me to understand that trying to live by the law can be bad if not combined with faith in God.
Do you believe the Holy Spirit uses symbols, metaphors and many other figures of speech to increase our understanding of God?