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The Gift Of The Sabbath - Is It For Us? - NEW AND IMPROVED??

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by BarnyFife, Jan 9, 2022.

  1. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    NEW AND IMPROVED??

    When I first started this thread, the comments quickly turned to contentious debate, as could be expected. I got symptoms of COVID-19 Sunday evening and, along with my daughter (who works in a hospital ICU), I got tested first thing Monday morning, and today (Jan 18), we both received positive results, so I've been thinking about a lot of things. And I've been thinking about ways to turn the tide of contention in this thread. I found the answer in the title of the thread itself:

    GIFT

    I know I can't keep people from arguing. But I can say that God literally said, Himself:

    Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. (Ezekiel 20:12)

    And the question in the thread title is:

    Is this a gift you could value?

    -------------------------------------------

    Original original post starts here :

    In the United States and Canada—albeit on different days for each nation—citizens celebrate an annual holiday known as Thanksgiving Day. On that day, families and friends gather to express thanks for one other and the good things in their lives and, yes, to enjoy a nice meal together.

    But did you know that along with that one day of national Thanksgiving, there are 52 other days each year that were created especially for us to give thanks? These other days don’t necessarily involve producing a massive meal and inviting all your relatives to your home, but they are days in which we are to express gratitude. They are the weekly Sabbath days.

    Dr. Laura Nash, a school psychologist in New Jersey, spoke with The Christian Science Monitor about these special days, mentioning her journey from non-practicing Catholicism to what she calls the “ethical monotheism” of her husband’s Judaism, the religion to which she converted in the year 2000.

    “I like the fact that we have this way of stopping and celebrating, of resting and honoring God,” says Nash. She also refers to Genesis 2:3, noting that God had pronounced the Sabbath to be a good thing. Although Nash’s observance of the Sabbath is not as strict as Orthodox Jews’ or as biblically based as many Sabbath-keeping Christians’, she and her family nevertheless set aside the day as special.


    A Weekly Rest
    But the Sabbath is not only for Jews or Sabbath-keeping Christians; it is a weekly day in which everyone can participate. In Genesis 2:2, 3, we read about the origin of the Sabbath, a day given long before there were Jews and Gentiles: “And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.”

    Let’s be clear: God wasn’t tired! He didn’t need to take a nap. God rested because He wanted the people He had just created to see an example of how humanity should live. Humans are not intended to ceaselessly labor without a break. We’re not intended to live what Thoreau, in his famous work Walden, called “lives of quiet desperation.”

    Instead, after six days of pursuing one’s own interests, there is a day of rest for all, even for working animals. (See Exodus 20:10.) In that day, we are to gain a blessing as well as be a blessing by giving thanks in many different ways.


    Sabbath Made for All Humanity
    The Sabbath isn’t intended as a day of idleness. God rested on the seventh day in order to spend time with His creation—with us. That is why we attend church on that day, a day of “holy convocation” (Leviticus 23:3) in which we have the privilege of worshiping and learning more about God. The Sabbath is our opportunity to reaffirm that it is God “who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them” (Acts 4:24).

    In our free article “Sabbath Observance Honors the Creator,” we read a direct explanation of the Sabbath’s importance: “In Psalm 111:4, we are told that God ‘made his wonderful works to be remembered.’ The reason is that His works remind us of creation, and creation reminds us of the Creator, and the Creator is the only true God. Since He ‘hath made his wonderful works to be remembered,’ it would be only natural that, at the close of the week in which these wonderful works were done, He should institute a memorial by which we would be reminded from week to week of them. Thus, we would never forget who the true God is, and drift into idolatry, or deny Him as the Creator.”

    The Sabbath is also a remembrance of God’s saving us by coming to die on the cross for our sins: “Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them” (Ezekiel 20:12). We are sanctified not on our own merits, but rather through Christ’s righteousness when we receive Him as Savior and Lord. What a beautiful day, expressly given to us that we, by our worship and study, may give thanks to the One to whom we owe our very lives, both at creation and at the cross!

    The Sabbath is also a special time where we can glorify God through service to others, as Jesus Himself demonstrated while on this earth: “It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:12). It is particularly in these times of giving to others that we may remember all that God has given to us.

    There is, it turns out, a long and fascinating history of the Sabbath that spans centuries, crosses cultures, and transcends politics. Our free video series The Seventh Day, hosted by Academy Award-winning actor Hal Holbrook, fills in the gaps and tells you just how the Sabbath has been used—and abused—over two millennia. You’ll never view the Sabbath in the same way after watching this informative, eye-opening series!

    The Sabbath is not just another day of the week. It’s a day set apart from the usual toil and cares, a day for reflection on God’s goodness. It’s a day in which believers come together to praise God, to thank God, through worship, remembrance, study, and service. It is the true day of thanksgiving—and it is God’s gift to you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022 at 8:19 PM
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  2. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why I have to discern and search for a reason to disobey what God has already made plain. Honestly, is that really necessary? For what it's worth, I've been there, done that, 32 years ago. I was raised a Southern Baptist, in a church where they taught that the ten (not nine) commandments were the moral code for Christians. I was 26 years old when someone approached me with the suggestion that the Sabbath was on the 7th day of the week--not the 1st. I prayed and studied the Bible more in several months than I had in my entire life, and consulted the local Baptist minister. The preponderance of evidence from Scripture compelled me to conclude that The 7th day was the Sabbath. I adjusted my lifestyle accordingly. It's as simple as that. :)
     
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  3. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Thank you for sharing, but like in studying scripture is how we get to the truth in His words, maybe some iron sharpening iron by the Lord's ministry can happen here.

    Sharing something from that site I had shared earlier, brother.

    What does the Sabbath have to do with salvation?

    "DID THE APOSTLES OBSERVE THE SABBATH AFTER JESUS' ASCENSION TO HEAVEN?
    There is not the slightest hint in the New Testament that the Sabbath was changed or abolished. The book of Acts records that the apostles kept the Sabbath very regularly.

    The book of Acts records 84 Sabbath meetings held by Paul over a period of 10 years, from A.D. 45-55. On his first missionary journey, Paul with his companions arrived at Antioch in Pisidia. "And on the sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down" (Acts 13:14). At the invitation of the synagogue officials, Paul preached a sermon (verse 15 ff.). "The next sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord" spoken by Paul (verse 44). ~~~ End of Quote

    The problem here is Jews would not allow nor permit Christians to hold their services in a Jewish synagogue. That is asking for it.

    What His disciples & Paul did in Acts was missionary outreach to the Jews in reading scriptures that would lead them to believing in Christ.

    But there are scripture to when Christians actually held their worship service. Paul gave this as an ordinance when collecting for the saints on the first day of the week when after church's collection, they would set a portion from the bounty aside for the missionaries in the field so that there would be no collection for when Paul or other missionaries come. They were to do that each first day of the week at church service.

    1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

    Paul is writing to the Corinthians about this collection on the first day of the week as this was an order he had given to the churches of Galatia also.

    Now why the change? I am sure you have heard of it; the Lord's day, Sunday, first day of the week of His resurrection.

    There is only one report of the disciples getting together to break bread ( communion ) where Paul preached unto them on the first day of the week.

    Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    They can't do that in the Jewish synagogue, collecting for the saints and breaking bread or having communion. That is why the events recorded in Acts of what they did on the sabbath was ministerial outreach to the Jews which was the best time to do it when they are all in the synagogues.

    Something to consider about what they actually did on the sabbaths in the Book of Acts.
     
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  4. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to be dismissive at all, Brother, but I don't seem to be communicating effectively that I am 32 years past looking for reasons to break the commandments of God. It is completely foreign to me. I could look through the Bible and find 100 verses to support the idea that it was right for me to commit murder. But I'm not going to do that. It doesn't make sense to me because I have fully implemented the 10-part moral code (that has been in effect since Adam drew his first breath) into my thought processes.

    I have accepted Christ as my personal Savior and He says "If you love Me keep My commandments." And what are His commandments? When the rich young ruler came to Christ asking what he should do to obtain eternal life, He said "Keep the commandments," after which he specified, listing 5 of the 10, and 1 of the 2 great commandments--which summarize the principles of the 10. Are we to assume that any of these commandments are different from His own?

    Many point to the absence of the 4th commandment in this list as evidence that it has been nullified. But they never venture to point to the other 4 missing commandments or the missing first and great commandment as being obsolete. This instruction from Christ sounds pretty clear and definite. I would go so far as to say "serious." Shall we give these words of Christ less weight than an instruction to take up an offering on Sundays? Or the inclusion of a single meeting in the good doctor's account of the early church? I can't do it without suffering considerable cognitive dissonance.

    If you really want something to consider about early church observance of the Sabbath, try to imagine the ruckus that would result from the Sabbath actually being changed amongst a people who were known to be very zealous for the day, being essential to the moral fiber of their entire way of life. Especially given that they had only the Old Testament Scriptures to consult, which absolutely nowhere gives a hint that the Sabbath was to be changed. It seems to me that something like that would have been given considerable coverage in the New Testament--not just a few vagueries like "esteeming one day above another," "blotting out the handwriting of ordinances," etc., etc.

    I think I'll decline to comment on the website article citation except to say that the article was written by a thoroughly qualified Theology professor and editor, for 9 years, of a Sabbath School lesson guide that served millions of people all over the world.

    The Sabbath commandment wasn't changed, dissolved, demoted to a suggestion, or any such thing.

    And I do not subscribe in any way to the Eternal Security doctrine. :):):)
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  5. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Yet you had shared how you used to believe the way that I do until someone came along and motivated you to read about it in scripture, looking for that particular mindset & belief, but you did that.

    I never said it did changed because Jesus did not say His disciples were not profaning the sabbath. He defended His disciples by saying One greater than the Temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless.

    Did Jesus fulfilled the law on the cross?

    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Doesn't the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ apart from the law justifies us?

    Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

    But if we are to keep the sabbath day holy... which is the biggest letter of the law, then why is circumcision wrong, which is the smallest letter of the law? One could say that Jesus did not destroy the law, and so how come circumcision is wrong? And why did Paul says if believers did circumcision, they are required to do the whole law? Galatians 5:1-5

    Wha did Paul mean here?

    Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    I am grateful to the Lord for you, but I have shared why I was broaching this topic with eternal security, because some Sabbath Keepers that I have come across in the past, do signify that a true Christian would be keeping the sabbath as proof that they are saved.

    So it seems to me that the issue of sabbath keeping needs to be addressed for how you would be defending eternal security from them and still be a sabbath day keeper too.

    Would it not be like a Catholic saying he believes he is saved outside the Catholic Church, but he is still attending to reach those within, and yet in the eyes of the Catholics within, they do not see his faith while being a member of the Catholic Church still, & seeing him in doing the works of Catholicism comes across to them as just in case he is wrong.

    Try as I might, I cannot even imagine how you would correct them to defend eternal security for non-Sabbath Day Keeping Christians. Course, it is the Lord that would be ministering thru you, but I do wonder how He would have you do that.

    I believe it would be difficult and so I understand if you want to pass on it.

    Maybe somebody else can do it, even if he or she is not keeping the sabbath! That would be ironic, but the Lord can raised up any saint for that, but I am having trouble seeing that He would, only because I cannot seem to fathom it from your point of view to do that myself with His help.
     
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  6. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    From the beginning, it was not a commandment until Israel became a nation. If everybody was doing it, even those not of the nation of Israel, there would be no need for such a commandment.

    Gentiles, as in sinners, did not keep the sabbath.

    So where are the teachings to keep the sabbath day to the churches?

    And as many churches are not keeping the sabbath day, why is this not mentioned in the Book of Revelations when Jesus was addressing the 7 churches, symbolic of the future churches to be ready before He comes? He does not rebuke that in the 5 of 7 churches that were bad, and He did not commend it in the 2 out of 7 churches that were good.

    If we read about how the Christian Jews were addressing Paul to explain why he was teaching Gentiles to forsake Moses, in not getting circumcise nor to walk after their customs, does that mean also excluding the keeping of the sabbath day? And yet because the Gentiles did not keep the sabbath day, what Paul did instruct Gentiles to do, keeping the sabbath day was not one of them in verse 25 below.

    Acts 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

    25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

    So there is just cause to take pause for Christians today for keeping the sabbath day "holy" when the Gentiles believers were not doing it back then.
     
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  7. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Brother, I'm afraid you're drawing conclusions about my position and situation that just aren't so. I don't know that I used to believed the same way you do about the Sabbath at all. And I said nothing whatsoever about my source of motivation for investigating the Sabbath question. That is actually an entirely separate story.

    Think not that you have offended me at all, but I perceive that we are having some trouble communicating.

    You pose many questions, and I certainly don't want to seem elusive but I find I'm having difficulty explaining my views clearly enough to minimize the likelihood of giving the wrong impression. In short, you're posing questions faster I can answer them clearly enough. But I believe I can be patient if you can. :)
     
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  8. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Thanks to the Lord and His help, I can be patient. Thank you for your understanding.:)
     
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  9. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    And I never said you did. I was just making a general statement. :)

    Did Jesus say He would fulfill the law on the cross?

    Perhaps He did fulfill it, in a very distinct sense.

    So assuming He did accomplish this, how exactly is the law fulfilled?

    Has heaven and earth passed?

    I don't believe it has.

    So, again, assuming He did fulfill the law on the cross, it seems reasonable to conclude that whatever fulfilling the law entails, it must not consist of causing one jot or tittle to pass from it.

    So what does the phrase "one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" mean?

    And, perhaps as important as that, what does the qualifier "till all be fulfilled" mean?

    These seem like reasonable considerations to me.

    It would be easy enough to be tempted to give them little weight or heed since, as you ask:
    And to this I would emphatically say yes, of course. This worthy case is made clear over and over again in the writings of the Great Apostle.

    But, is this alone the whole truth of the Everlasting Gospel? Is it what Paul calls "the whole counsel of God? " After all, are we not to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God?

    So the question arises: Do we give more weight to the words of Paul concerning justification by faith apt from works of the law than to the words of the Lord Jesus that those who love Him will be found keeping His commandments, or is there a way to rightly divide them so that they are in perfect harmony?

    In fact, mustn't we? :)
     
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  10. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    It's the least I can do for a fellow pilgrim. ;)
     
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  11. GRACE ambassador

    GRACE ambassador Well-Known Member

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    Precious friend, now Ang (Andy) might say "good work, Barn" ;)

    Concerning "the shadow" vs The Reality, I believe the following have been
    Overlooked!:

    1) "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day
    alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the
    day, regardeth it unto The LORD; and he that regardeth not the day, to The LORD
    he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to The LORD, for he giveth God
    thanks;..." (Romans_14:5-6)

    Therefore, IF I "am Fully Persuaded in my own mind" that I should "rest In The
    Reality (The True Sabbath), The LORD JESUS CHRIST, 24/7 ("esteeming Every Day Alike), I don't see a problem, And, Neither would I judge you, since you would have the Same liberty and freedom, In CHRIST, "being fully persuaded to esteem one day above another," Correct?

    Thus, "The gift of the sabbath -53 thanksgivings a year," is, for me:

    "The Gift Of The Reality (The True Sabbath), The LORD JESUS CHRIST =
    365 Thanksgivings A Year!"


    2) "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an
    holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath: Which are a shadow of things
    to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians_2:16-17)

    'Tis Far Better to live in The Light Of The Reality, The LORD JESUS CHRIST,
    rather than in the darkness of the shadow, wouldn't you agree, Precious friend?

    3) IF I Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
    as yourself!" (
    Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

    I don't understand HOW this has anything to do with obeying the "shadow of the
    sabbath," which has nothing to do with "my neighbor." What Does matter, is
    sinning against them in adultery, coveting, lying, cheating, deceiving, stealing, or
    killing them (Romans_13:9)

    Where is obedience to "the shadow" here or Anywhere In God's GRACE Gospel To our apostle, Paul, In Romans Through Philemon?

    4) Concerning God's FREE Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, please consider Much
    Confirmation, According To The Scriptures, Please, Precious friend?:

    God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
    God's Eternal Assurance

    Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In The LORD JESUS CHRIST!
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2022
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  12. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Okay.

    He died paying the ransom for our sins which was death.

    When you consider the Old Covenant in how they were to keep the sabbath day to be His people and to obtain salvation, then since we have been saved by Jesus Christ, the continual necessity of keeping the sabbath day to be His people and to obtain salvation has ceased.
     
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  13. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    He did, indeed, but I'm not sure that explains a matter as weighty as fulfilling the law, especially considering He said we will keep it if we love Him.
    The purpose of keeping the law was never to obtain salvation. By the time the sinner becomes sin-aware, that ship has sailed. No amount of commandment-keeping can atone for a man's sin. It's right in my signature below every one of my posts. I'm strictly non-dispensational. The conditions of eternal life are the same as they have always been—perfect obedience to the commandments of God.

    Since no one has ever rendered this requirement but the Son of man, we have no other recourse but to agree to His offer to swap accounts with us: His life for ours, His death for ours and, consequently, our resurrection by His, our glorification by His, and our ascension by His.

    No one has ever been redeemed or ever will be, any other way but this one.

    It is the Everlasting Gospel of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, and the transaction has been made simple for us, but it doesn't come with a license to break His law.

    That would be like getting pulled over for speeding, getting off with a warning, and then flooring the gas pedal to see how fast we can do the quarter-mile.

    The old covenant never saved anyone. The book of Hebrews states plainly that the very covenant itself was faulty being based, as it was, on the promises of man. :)
     
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  14. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    That depends on what sets of His commandments you are talking about. The set of commandments for how we receive the promise of the Holy Spirit at our salvation? And He did repeat that set of one commandment over and over again for that promise to come & that was to believe Him.

    John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?

    6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    But if it is His commandments for following Him as His disciples, we need Jesus Christ in us, so we can. So the set of those repeated commandments to believe in Him to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit at our salvation cannot be the same for discipleship, because we need to be born again of the Spirit so we can live as sons of God.

    And believe it or not, His commandments are not burdensome when we know that we rely on Him to help us to follow Him by faith alone.

    1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    No keeping the sabbath day for abiding in Him here. He abides in you still even when you are not loving one another, albeit, that grieves the holy Spirit in us, but because He is in us always, we can always go to Jesus for help to repent and give us the love we need to forgive others.

    Ephesians 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. 28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. 29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
     
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  15. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

    Reads to me that keeping the commandments was to obtain salvation.

    The Old Covenant shows why we need God as our Savior because we cannot do it. Man had their chance under the Old Covenant. Now it is God's turn. All He wants rom us is to believe Him; John 6:28-29

    Now we have to ask ourselves, why am I loving others? To save myself?

    Or by His grace & by His help, to be found abiding in Him as His disciples, to bear fruit so that my joy may be full & be received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House so I do not get left behind as a castaway? John 15:1-8 Luke 12:40-49 1 Corinthians 9:24-26 Hebrews 12:1-2
     
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  16. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    Do these qualify as commandments?

    Exodus 20:1 KJV: And God spake all these words, saying,
    Exodus 20:2 KJV: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    Exodus 20:3 KJV: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    Exodus 20:4 KJV: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    Exodus 20:5 KJV: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    Exodus 20:6 KJV: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    Exodus 20:7 KJV: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    Exodus 20:12 KJV: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
    Exodus 20:13 KJV: Thou shalt not kill.
    Exodus 20:14 KJV: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Exodus 20:15 KJV: Thou shalt not steal.
    Exodus 20:16 KJV: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    Exodus 20:17 KJV: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


    Is it okay to break any of these? Please answer -Yes- or -No-
    (Notice, I didn't include the 4th commandment, The Sabbath.)
     
  17. BarnyFife

    BarnyFife Well-Known Member

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    At this point, you're kinda just spamming me with circular reasoning.

    That's not very nice. :(

    I wouldn't do that to you.

    Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep the commandments because they are the eternal conditions of eternal life. Once a person is convicted that he has forfeited his right to eternal life, he is then left to find a remedy. That remedy is the Everlasting Gospel. Every person who was ever born was under the old covenant until they realized they failed in it because it is faulty. The old and new covenant options are presented to everyone during their lifetime. I don't do dispensationalism. It is a man-made construct of the mid 19th century. Frankly, I find it puzzling that folks my age and older are embracing all of the neo-theology bouncing around. It is so easy to research and discover that it is a matter of history that all of this stuff has been fabricated long after the early church era.

    For what it's worth, here's what the most famous and beloved, mainstream Evangelist of the mid 20th century had to say on the matter of commandment-keeping:

    Question:
    Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

    Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham:
    No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."
     
  18. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Exodus 20:1 KJV: And God spake all these words, saying,
    Exodus 20:2 KJV: I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
    Exodus 20:3 KJV: Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    Exodus 20:4 KJV: Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
    Exodus 20:5 KJV: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    Exodus 20:6 KJV: And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    Exodus 20:7 KJV: Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
    Exodus 20:12 KJV: Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
    Exodus 20:13 KJV: Thou shalt not kill.
    Exodus 20:14 KJV: Thou shalt not commit adultery.
    Exodus 20:15 KJV: Thou shalt not steal.
    Exodus 20:16 KJV: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
    Exodus 20:17 KJV: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


    No. But consider this. Most of those commandments are about not doing those things in keeping them to obtain salvation by.

    Keeping the sabbath day is like saying you have to continue to keep that commandment to save yourself.

    Verse 12 can be seen as another commandment yet to do to obtain salvation by.

    So while most of those commandments are "thou shalt not.." two of them are for Jews to practice continually in the hope they will obtain salvation.

    But we are saved. So to do that commandment of keeping the sabbath day holy is over, since there is no more seeking to do that for that purpose but honoring thy father & thy mother is still in place because it is for abiding in Him as His disciples in loving others.

    But even that has a stipulation to it. In Luke 14:25-35 verse 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." would limit that love for when the Bridegroom comes as we are to leave them behind in the Lord's hand, to e with the Lord forever in heaven. That is the cost of discipleship is to leave all behind when the Bridegroom comes. It was never about how we live in following Him on earth as His disciples, but being ready & willing to leave.

    Why can't we keep the sabbath day also for abiding in Him as His disciples just as long as we are not doing it for obtaining salvation by?

    If a Christian Jew was keeping the sabbath day still, could any Jew see his faith that he is not doing it to obtain salvation still?

    I am not saying that is the reason why church held services on Sunday, the first day of the week so Jews can see Christian Jews' faith in Christ, because I believe since the Lord had risen on that day, is why churches had chosen that first day of the week to celebrate & worship the Lord.
     
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  19. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    @Christ4Me Good to remember (even though some ppl don't want to) that the law was changed. (Hebrews 7.12).

    Good to remember (even though some ppl don't want to) that what we now have is better than the law (Hebrews 7.19).
     
  20. Christ4Me

    Christ4Me Active Member

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    Not sure why you saw it that way. I do not recall sharing that post before with you, have I? Maybe you are confusing me with someone else?

    Well I had boldened portions of Matthew 19:16-17 that plainly states it was for obtaining eternal life, so I will not repeat it then.

    I reckon only the Lord can help us to see what commandments are still in effect for why we keep them since His commandments are higher than the works of the law. One can say that honoring the Lord on the sabbath day just went to everyday for living that reconcile relationship with God in Jesus Christ, but there should be a difference for why we honor Him each day because we are saved as opposed to how the Jews were to do it on the sabbath day.

    Let's take a break, because you seem to be offended. I love you in Christ's love.
     
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