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I would never passively-aggressively accuse you of not wanting to recognize that the entire 7th chapter of Hebrews is about the Levitical priesthood and the ceremonial law, and that not one mention is made of the moral law of which the Sabbath commandment is the centerpiece. I think you probably just overlooked that. :)
I wasn't even referring to you, @BarnyFife I've made similar comments previously. The rest day is Creational. But the Sabbath's part in the Old Economy is not central to the Gospel age; indeed, since the Resurrection is a fulfillment of the feasts of firstfruits, it's hard to go back to the Old Economy with its prescriptions.
Spam is limited to the act of reposting?
How could commandment-keeping save someone who has already broken them. The conditions of eternal life are perfect obedience, and the wages of sin is death so everyone who was ever born needs a Substitute.
...unless the Giver of the law says that one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from it.
Couldn't one also say that zebras are polka-dotted?
No offense taken whatsoever. :)
That's very nice. I love you, too. So much so, that I very much want you to experience the joy of the Sabbath of the LORD, thy God, that you might delight yourself in the LORD; and that He would cause you to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob. (Isaiah 58:14) :)
So "some ppl" doesn't refer to those who hallow the Sabbath and disagree with your interpretation of Hebrews 7 (about which I noticed you made no comment)? You referred to "some ppl" in parentheses twice. It was dark outside when I was born, but it wasn't last night. Does the fact that you've made similar comments before mean something I should understand? Because I don't. If your post wasn't a backhanded insult, I confess I'm not sure for what purpose it was intended. Keep in mind, I'm not offended, personally, but I have a lot of friends who experience a lot of spiritual bullying in threads of this type. And a lot of drive-by comments that are constituted much like yours. A whole lot. I assume if I've misrepresented you in any way, you'll accept my apologies and forgive my bull-headedness. :)
If my post was too strongly worded, my apologies. I guess part of my point is that these arguments occur over and over again, decade after decade, with astonishing similarity; but yes it is true that those who espouse them are individuals in their own right with their own, unique spiritual experiences.
That's pretty much baked into the commandment's actual verbiage. Not sure how that pertains to its validity.
This is just a statement of opinion, really.
Is this a reference to Sunday sacredness or something?
Prescriptions?
Class act, Brother. Whatever offences might've occurred, all is forgiven.
Well, Friend, I don't understand the 4th point, but the first 3 I haven't overlooked at all. I've been fielding these arguments for decades. Head over to Sabbathtruth.com and you'll find answers to all of these and more. I can't fathom what it is that Christians find so objectionable about obeying a command to rest and commune with God every 7th day. Especially considering that as recently as the mid 20th century, virtually no Christian objected to it at all, only most of them were doing it on the 1st day of the week rather than the 7th. If you really want me to answer your arguments I can, but you'll probably get a clearer answer at the website I mentioned earlier. It's in my signature, too. :)
Do you think things like not bowing down to idols, not murdering, stealing, lying, etc. were novel ideas to the Hebrews? By the way, they were tested on their willingness to keep the Sabbath in Exodus 16, several months before the giving of the law at Sinai.
I'm good with anyone who wants to observe a literal Sabbath. I mean, if it hadn't been for the Catholic's so-called authority to change things we'd be recognizing the original Sabbath in one way or another, not the Catholic version of it. But anyway, I don't observe a literal Sabbath because I am convinced that it was a foreshadow of the requirement for rest that is fully satisfied by our faith in God. And so by faith in God we enter into the rest from the taskmaster of sin, and, the relentless task of working our own salvation, that he has provided. It's the same reason we don't observe the laws of animal sacrifice. They were foreshadows of requirements that are fully and totally met in Christ through our faith. And so we don't seek to accomplish through the old that which has now been completely and utterly accomplished for us through the new.
Precious friend, Barn, what's been objectionable for decades is the deceit of religions:
I probably used the term a little too loosely. One of the tactics debaters often use is to overwhelm their opponents by posing clusters of questions so voluminous that the opponent hasn't the allotted time to answer them all. I don't really suspect that you would purposely do such a thing, and I can be easily distractable and slow at times, so you probably should just disregard the spam accusations with my apologies.
You may safely trust me when I say that what I like or dislike has no bearing on my views of the Bible text. When I was initiated into the systematic theology I now hold, I was (eventually) very open to suggestion, and seeking to find objective truth. I now know that total objectivity is nearly impossible, but the basic framework of that theology has not changed one iota for me. And it is as simple as can be: Christ came into this world to restore the image of God (love) in man, in order to rid the universe of the disease of sin, thus making it secure and joyful.
No man except Christ has ever kept the law his whole life. People begin sinning before they even know what sin is. Therefore salvation by works is a plain and simple impossibility. This, however, does not excuse our sin after we are initially forgiven and justified. The new covenant was in existence from the foundation of the earth. God speaks of it distinctively in Deuteronomy 5:29, during the time of Noah and the Levitical priesthood.
Really no need to do that unless the goal is to explain away the simple, plain reading of the text. There's nothing ambiguous about "Nothing can be removed from the law." Right?
There simply is much more to fulfilling the law than that. If it were not so we wouldn't have a book of 3/4 million words to study. The ancient Hebrew Sanctuary service is intricate and complicated, yet it is meant to be a lessonbook to understand the Atonement. Jesus said the entire Old Testament was a testimony about Himself. It is the ultimate paradox. The Gospel is simple. But the atonement (which one would think is the same thing and, indeed, it is) is intricate and complicated. It is easy for us to understand how to be saved, but it is infinitely complicated for Christ to save us.
The problem here is in insisting that "the least" are yet a part of the kingdom of Heaven. Notice that the expression, "the least" is applied to both the party who breaks the commandment and to the commandment itself. Is there really a least important commandment? It is a form of expression we use today. The best example I can think of is one my parents use to say when I was achild: "You better stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about." Or if "If you think ____________, then you've got another think coming." These are probably not the best examples, but I think it might be called "hyperbole." Barring this, "the least" of commandment-keepers, would have to be considered the wicked, would it not? The least commandment-keeping a person can do is to be wicked.
Which is why we so desperately need Jesus to justify and sanctify us. Since we cannot keep the commandments of our own power, we have to surrender our wills to God's so that Jesus can live His perfect life in and through us.
James 2:14 KJV: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
See the Scriptures quoted directly above.
The passage I quoted was about keeping the Sabbath. I should have quoted the whole context. Sorry. Rest and joy in salvation are exactly what the Sabbath is all about. For me, it's like having a child's Christmas every Saturday. :)
No argument there, so why aren't all Christians doing it? It was Christ who administered all TEN of the commandments from Sinai:
