The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power

[Pearl]

This is not in line with scripture. Not saying you didn't (or don't) experience something of your own making.

I am going to ignore you Dave. Sorry and all that but I can't do with your way of refuting my claims of the Spirit's presence in my life. It ain't good or godly. Bye for now.

 

[Dave L]

I am going to ignore you Dave. Sorry and all that but I can't do with your way of refuting my claims of the Spirit's presence in my life. It ain't good or godly. Bye for now.

You have the Spirit but not the expired gifts. Every believer has the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Berserk]

Dave: So you reject Acts 2 as God's Word because you don't believe its witness to the 120 speaking languages understood by the witnesses. Wow!

 

[Dave L]

Dave: So you reject Acts 2 as God's Word because you don't believe its witness to the 120 speaking languages understood by the witnesses. Wow!

The 120 were a different group at a different time and place if you read closely. It says the 12 spoke with tongues. If you consider what Paul says about tongues, the 12 spoke only to God in a heavenly language. The devout Jews also received the baptism with the gift of interpretation and each understood in their own native tongue. This is radically different from what Pentecostals have been trained to think. But independent study paints this picture when you consider all the bible says about the subject.

 

[Berserk]

Notice how Dave now seeks to distract attention away from the decisive biblical refutation that speaking in tongues is not for today!

Dave L: "The 120 were a different group at a different time and place if you read closely."

Wrong! The number of seekers "in constant prayer" in the Upper Room is 120 (1:13-15). Luke clearly has these 120 praying seekers in mind when he then reports, "They were all together in one place" and then continues "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues." "All" means "all;" the 120 praying seekers are not deprived of the promised Spirit baptism. The "place" is the same "house" (2:2) with the Upper Room where the 120 were accustomed to gathering for prayer. I've been there. Have you?

Dave L: "It says the 12 spoke with tongues."

No, you're hallucinating! You must learn to read what's there and no more. All the academic commentators on Acts agree with me on this point.

Dave L: "If you consider what Paul says about tongues, the 12 spoke only to God in a heavenly language."

Wrong again, this time on 3 counts: (1) Luke describes the glossolalia in Acts 2 as "prophecy" (2:17) and that means it is addressed to the onlookers, not to God. (2) You are confusing praying in tongues, which is addressed to God, from messages in tongues, which must be interpreted because are addressed to believers in Paul's churches with a view to "edifying them (1 Corinthians 14:5). (3) You are overlooking Luke's distinction between glossolalia in languages comprehensible to the witnesses (Acts 2:5-6) and glossolalia that is distinguished from prophecy because it is neither understood nor interpreted by participants (19:6).

Dave L: ""The devout Jews also received the baptism with the gift of interpretation and each understood in their own native tongue."
As usual, wrong again! "At this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered because each one heard them [the 120 ] speaking in their own native language (2:6)." The crowd of "devout Jews" gathered because they were drawn by the sound of glossolalia uttered not not themselves, but by the 120! All the academic commentaries on Acts agree on this point.

 

[Dave L]

Notice how Dave now seeks to distract attention away from the decisive biblical refutation that speaking in tongues is not for today!

Dave L: "The 120 were a different group at a different time and place if you read closely."

Wrong! The number of seekers "in constant prayer" in the Upper Room is 120 (1:13-15). Luke clearly has these 120 praying seekers in mind when he then reports, "They were all together in one place" and then continues "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues." "All" means "all;" the 120 praying seekers are not deprived of the promised Spirit baptism. The "place" is the same "house" (2:2) with the Upper Room where the 120 were accustomed to gathering for prayer. I've been there. Have you?

Dave L: "It says the 12 spoke with tongues."

No, you're hallucinating! You must learn to read what's there and no more. All the academic commentators on Acts agree with me on this point.

Dave L: "If you consider what Paul says about tongues, the 12 spoke only to God in a heavenly language."

Wrong again, this time on 3 counts: (1) Luke describes the glossolalia in Acts 2 as "prophecy" (2:17) and that means it is addressed to the onlookers, not to God. (2) You are confusing praying in tongues, which is addressed to God, from messages in tongues, which must be interpreted because are addressed to believers in Paul's churches with a view to "edifying them (1 Corinthians 14:5). (3) You are overlooking Luke's distinction between glossolalia in languages comprehensible to the witnesses (Acts 2:5-6) and glossolalia that is distinguished from prophecy because it is neither understood nor interpreted by participants (19:6).

Dave L: ""The devout Jews also received the baptism with the gift of interpretation and each understood in their own native tongue."
As usual, wrong again! "At this sound the crowd gathered and was bewildered because each one heard them [the 120 ] speaking in their own native language (2:6)." The crowd of "devout Jews" gathered because they were drawn by the sound of glossolalia uttered not not themselves, but by the 120! All the academic commentaries on Acts agree on this point.

You are ignoring lots of scripture that has being on what happened and settling for the stock Pentecostal interpretation which was wrong from the beginning. Paul says those who speak in tongues speak to God, not people.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Really? He thinks he saw Jesus and that people can see dead people too.

I didn't closely follow this - he said he saw Jesus and dead people?

 

[Dave L]

I didn't closely follow this - he said he saw Jesus and dead people?

You need to start at the beginning of his OP.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Yes, because unless you hadn't God would have never known what you meant. Thanks for helping him out, he needs it once in a while.

I assume that you believe in speaking in tongues? I get the feeling that I want to express something deep within my spirit, and tongues expresses what I can't put to words. But after reading that it could be from the dark side I've been concerned about it. God has not seen fit to show me definitively that it's from Him.

 

[Soverign Grace]

You need to start at the beginning of his OP.

Okay.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Yup, I agree. Tongues is languages. Tongues at Pentecost was not the same as described in Corinthians but many think its the same. That's where todays gibberish comes from, misunderstanding. And satan loves to use it.

So you think that tongues is from Satan?

 

[Dave L]

So you think that tongues is from Satan?

Purely human babbling. Although much evidence points to early Pentecostals being a merger of Louisiana Voodoo and Wesley Methodism.

 

[Dave L]

I assume that you believe in speaking in tongues? I get the feeling that I want to express something deep within my spirit, and tongues expresses what I can't put to words. But after reading that it could be from the dark side I've been concerned about it. God has not seen fit to show me definitively that it's from Him.

Speaking in Tongues: Glossalalia and Stress Reduction This explains the buzz Charismatics are addicted to.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Spirit immediately overpowered my resistance and I found myself speaking in tongues at the top of my voice. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love...

When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken to me, though not in an audible voice or a message printed on the neon screen of my mind. God told me, "You desperately need answers to your vexing questions. But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart. I'm calling you to live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvard.

Man, oh man! You and I appear to have quite a bit in common. I had very similar experiences. I was baptized in the Spirit during an AoG Christian conference in St. Louis, and when I finally let go of my tongue it was LOUD! Really loud, and oriental which I personally believe was Vietnamese, but there was no one there who could speak it to verify. But after my baptism in a conference room, those who baptized me went back into the main hall because a meeting was starting, but I went back to my hotel room and opened the Bible. My eyes hit a passage that was about the Holy Spirit and suddenly the words were no longer impersonal. I knew the One being referred to in those passages now, because I had experienced Him, and in numerous other manifestations that happened later I felt His Presence tangibly, sort of like you described it, as liquid love; an unmistakable & tangible warmth descending upon me from without.

Anyway, I dedicated my life to teaching God's people if He would empower me to do so, and then began 30+ years of preparation for it. I almost went directly from college into a Master's in theology at Baptist Theological in New Orleans, but I knew I disagreed with a little too much of their theology to become a Baptist minister, so I just decided to invest in a large scholarly library and educate myself instead. My only regret is that if I had pursued a Masters, I would have gotten an earlier start on knowing the original languages, and I would have had some formal credentials to cite. But God uses us all in different ways, and it just wasn't the direction He wanted me to go in.

Very encouraged by your testimony. Brings me back to the early days of my own calling.

 

[Pearl]

I believe there to be four basic manifestations of the gift of tongues.

• Tongues for personal edification. (1 Corinthians 14:4) This is the supernatural language the Holy Spirit prays through us that we can use to pray hour after hour if we desire. It often accompanies the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

• Tongues which require an interpretation. (1 Corinthians 14:5) This manifestation of tongues is normally presented in a public assembly accompanied by an interpretation by the same or another person. (Romans 8:26)

• Tongues of deep intercessional groaning. (Romans 8:26) This diversification of tongues empowers the believers to stand in the gap for their own lives, their families, their church, their city, their nation etc. God may also call on them to intercede for someone or for some situation that is totally unknown.

• Tongues as a sign to unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) This is the phenomenon that took place on the day of Pentecost. (Acts2:4-11) It occurs when the Holy Spirit transcends the intellect and all language barriers by empowering a believer to preach, teach or testify about Christ in some language of man of which the believer himself has no knowledge.

I have also found that singing in tongues to praise and worship is another lovely way we can use the gift .

And praying in tongues silently either in support of another person who is ‘ministering’ or in a public place is another way of using this gift.

 

[Dave L]

I believe there to be four basic manifestations of the gift of tongues.

• Tongues for personal edification. (1 Corinthians 14:4) This is the supernatural language the Holy Spirit prays through us that we can use to pray hour after hour if we desire. It often accompanies the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

• Tongues which require an interpretation. (1 Corinthians 14:5) This manifestation of tongues is normally presented in a public assembly accompanied by an interpretation by the same or another person. (Romans 8:26)

• Tongues of deep intercessional groaning. (Romans 8:26) This diversification of tongues empowers the believers to stand in the gap for their own lives, their families, their church, their city, their nation etc. God may also call on them to intercede for someone or for some situation that is totally unknown.

• Tongues as a sign to unbelievers. (1 Corinthians 14:22) This is the phenomenon that took place on the day of Pentecost. (Acts2:4-11) It occurs when the Holy Spirit transcends the intellect and all language barriers by empowering a believer to preach, teach or testify about Christ in some language of man of which the believer himself has no knowledge.

I have also found that singing in tongues to praise and worship is another lovely way we can use the gift .

And praying in tongues silently either in support of another person who is ‘ministering’ or in a public place is another way of using this gift.

Only during in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands were the gifts ever distributed. Today's "gifts" are "Pentecostal knockoffs" of the originals, similar to a $10 Rolex.

 

[Jeff Wiebe]

So you think that tongues is from Satan?

I think there are two definitions of tongues talked about in the Bible. One happened at Pentecost and was for teaching the unbeliever and showing a sign of Gods power. The other as explained by Paul is simply diverse languages. The use of tongues today is not the same as either one. People feel the need to communicate with God in a supernatural way so they manifest this feeling of being overpowered. Its deception. God will not deceive. Only the master of deception will. He's had thousands of years to practice deception and Gods people are his main target. If one thinks they are speaking in the Spirit or a heavenly language, how can one possibly be sure if its all gibberish nobody can understand. People say they feel the love. Feelings cant be trusted. Jesus tells us how to pray if we don't know, so why would anyone come up with another way that just causes confusion and diversity? What people call tongues and practice today is not Biblical and all it does is create diversity among Christians.

 

[Helen]

Only during in the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands were the gifts ever distributed. Today's "gifts" are "Pentecostal knockoffs" of the originals, similar to a $10 Rolex.

So you say Dave...but I wouldn't wish the stand in your shoes

Take good care my friend.
Isa 5
20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"

As the children's song went in Sunday school...
"be careful little lips what you say...be careful little lips what you say, there's a Father up above looking down in heavenly love , so be careful little lips what you say."

 

[Dave L]

Thanks for your concern, but scripture says what it says. And experience confirms it is right.

 

[Mayflower]

At age 16 I was so nagged by doubts about the reliability of Scripture and the authenticity of charismatic manifestations in church that my faith crisis prompted me to spend a week at Manhattan Beach Camp near Ninette, Manitoba with the hope that God would meet me in the Pentecostal camp meetings in the huge outdoor amphitheater there. I responded to the encouragement to seek God at the altar after the services. But my heart felt like stone when I did because I felt tempted to succumb to wishful thinking and just speak gibberish in the flesh. So on Tuesday, I went on a long 7 mile country prayer walk, pleading with God to resolve my crippling doubts and pledging my willingness to die in His service, if He would only make Himself real to me. When I returned from my walk, I was famished and went to the camp dining hall to buy dinner. But then it occurred to me that I should instead fast and put the money I would have spent on dinner into the evening offering plate. So I did and then attended the evening camp meeting.

At the end of the service, as I had done previously in vain, I walked to the altar up front and knelt in prayer. My heart again felt like stone and I was determined not to succumb to the power of suggestion and wishful thinking by stepping out in faith and speaking in tongues. Soon everyone had left and I lingered in my depressing prayer vigil in the mostly darkened amphitheater. Suddenly I felt a warm breeze, which I assumed had blown in off of the adjacent Pelican Lake. I was shocked when I realized that this breeze was in fact the wind of the Holy Spirit! The Spirit immediately overpowered my resistance and I found myself speaking in tongues at the top of my voice. I was engulfed by wave after wave of liquid love, each wave more intense than the last, until I felt like I might die! At one point, my ego seemed on the verge of collapse into the divine mind. I can only describe this outpouring of divine love as a hundred times more intense and sweeter than I have experienced before or since. This proved to be unquestionably the highlight of my life and, decades later, I continue to draw emotional nourishment from the memory of that epic day.

After several minutes, I noticed a few spectators sitting reverently nearby. I asked one lady why she was staring at me and she replied, "Don't you know? Your face is glowing in the dark!" I returned to my knees to continue feasting on God's presence. Then I was interrupted by a Lutheran minister, who tapped me on the shoulder and said he was there only as an interested spectator of other religious traditions and didn't believe in speaking in tongues. But he could sense that God was doing a special work in my spirit and he asked me to pray for him. I didn't argue wit him, but just touched him gently on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues!

When I returned to my cabin, I realized that God had spoken to me, though not in an audible voice or a message printed on the neon screen of my mind. God told me, "You desperately need answers to your vexing questions. But right now answers are not good for you because answers would lead you to live too much in your head rather than from your heart. I'm calling you to live the big questions until they lead you to the center of my heart." That calling led me to get an MDiv from Princeton and a doctorate in New Testament, Judaism, and Greco-Roman religion from Harvard.

Like many others, I believe that speaking in tongues is like a gateway drug that leads to other gifts of the Spirit. Shortly after the experience, I had my first of many experiences of "the word of knowledge (see 1 Corinthians 12:8-10)." I suddenly knew that I would obtain the highest high school GPA in the province as a gift from God to signify my academic calling. At a funeral a few years ago, my cousin reminded me that I had informed him of this divine message before it was fulfilled. Previously, my academic performance had been nothing special. So I believe that my Baptism in the Holy Spirit had "renewed my mind (as per Romans 12:1-2). Duff Roblin, the Premier of the province, awarded my a scholarship in recognition of this achievement. I believe this recognition supported my earlier attempts to witness to classmates, which had seemed to give me a reputation as a religious fanatic. To God be the glory!

I post this experience at the beginning of this thread because, quite apart from the teaching of Paul and the Book of Acts on this matter, I'm convinced that if any of you had experienced what I did that fateful night, it would by BY FAR the spiritual highlight of your life. It is the raason why I never drifted off into agnosticism.

Dear Berserk, I got goosebumps. Today, after quite a few months of God's leading to visit a different church, I did this morning with my 18 month old daughter. My church does not believe in tongues as a prayer language, but I pray in them at home in private. I go back and forth a lot like you did in your testimony, because I was born in a Baptist church and we didnt have these manifestations of the spirit. Well, I didn't hear tongues today, but they mentioned how important it was they pray for their pastors in tongues. And so I got to talk with them afterwards about it. I tell you one thing. I consider my church as an on fire church, but at Forgiven Church, these believers just seemed excited on fire, like it was their Birthday. And the sermon was about how the veil was torn and now we can be like Moses, whose face radiated with the righteousness of God, ALL THE TIME (in so many words). 2 Corinthians.

I had fought the idea of visiting, because I've gone to my church 7 years and don't know why I have had these feelings. I want to teach my daughter right though, and tongues isn't really something I can explain or understand, dreams neither that come true...but it is true. I get that fear it is gibberish, but like when I hear like a sermon I heard in this church I visited today, the Holy Spirit bubbled up inside of me.

And whats more, my daughter didnt cry in the childcare at all. Laughed/smiled the whole time. I am glad I visited. I just want to believe without a shadow of the doubt. And maybe it is because my church doesnt believe in tongues as a prayer language, so I have those dual messages/feelings.

But I know one thing. I went to my church after, and told my friend I visited, and found out her and her husband had really talked about visiting another church for awhile now, not knowing why like me. They have two kids still with them. My church is very special. But perhaps the ministries have changed to where I feel called elsewhere...and, it would be nice to be around other believers who believe in these manifestations of the spirit.