The Godly Heresy of Sinless Perfectionism

[Bible Highlighter]

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

You responded too quickly to not even absorb anything that I had posted involving Scripture.
Please give a proper reply and don’t quickly dismiss the truth of God’s Word. Look at the verses and points very slowly and carefully, and check out the context (chapters), and pray about it.

 

[amigo de christo]

2 Timothy 2:14 KJV
14) Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

Words to no profit . So how come so many follow these non profitable words of a go spell from hell
which states , SO LONG as ye do good and have love it dont matter what path or god ye follow
Talk about words to no profit . THEMS WORDS OF DEATH which leads only to the second death .
My advice is , if any comes and adheres not to the doctrine of Christ , to That gospel
Dont just hug em and say all is fine we all serve god in our way . REJECT that lie
and preach JESUS and if they hear not , shake the dust off and move on to those who might hear .

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Timothy 2:14 KJV
14) Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

If I am correct (And I know I am on this point), then we are not striving over words to no profit here but we are getting to the truth of God’s Word. This again is why Jesus told you to CONTINUE in His Word so that you may know the truth and the truth will set you free.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Am encouraged. I went from team hyper grace to team Bible. I was taught to deal with sin by "resting in the finished work of the cross".

The logic was that if I rested enough I'd lose the motivation to sin.

But this isn't the biblical way of dealing with sin, which is to put it to death. So I'd be confused and frustrated when my sin did not get better by me "trusting in the finished work of the cross".

A prolific radio speaker even said, "You only get better when you realize that if you never get any better, God will still love you." So I thought the way to get better was to stop trying as hard.

When I started reading the Bible for myself, I was shocked that there were no phrases like "trust in the finished work of the cross" in there. In fact, it spoke of a very demonized thing: putting effort into getting rid of sin.

The bible said things like "you have not resisted to the point of shedding blood striving against sin." I was so mad. I had been taught falsely.

I was supposed to be trying after all. I was to be resisting the devil, taking thoughts captive, and crucifying the earthly nature the whole time and not just muster up enough hyper grace thoughts to get me in the mood to stop sinning.

Through God's Word and rejecting man's teachings, God gave me victory over pornography, adulterous fantasies and gave me the fruit of the spirit. Im no super Christian. Just a regular ol' believer.

Having the wrong view of sin did lead to more sin in my life. Beware men's teachings. If you aren't comparing them to the Scriptures, they can lead you astray and have you wasting your time.

Well said, Wynona.

May God bless you greatly for your words here.

 

[marks]

You responded too quickly to not even absorb anything that I had posted involving Scripture.
Please give a proper reply and don’t quickly dismiss the truth of God’s Word. Look at the verses and points very slowly and carefully, and check out the context (chapters), and pray about it.

You are taking away from the meaning of "faith" in conflating it with "obedience", and I'm not playing along.

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

 

[marks]

James appears to criticize the person who has faith without works by saying show me your faith without works, and I will show my faith by my works. This means faith and works are tied together because works is how one shows their faith.

True faith has works attached, but faith is not those works itself. Each has it's own meaning.

Faith is not only described as a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), faith is also described as obeying what God tells you to do. For example: By faith… Noah prepared and ark to the saving of his household (Hebrews 11:7). So Noah‘s faith was not just sitting on his hands and doing nothing as he refused to obey God’s instructions. That would be unfaith or not being faithful to what God said.

Faith is not the same thing as obedience.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So what I said was true, and not false slander of any kind.

What you said was that my focus was on getting others to sin.

And that's not true.

The simplest thing would be to acknowledge and move on . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Please give a proper reply and don’t quickly dismiss the truth of God’s Word.

Don't presume. I selected what to answer. First things first.

I focus on getting people to sin, now I'm dismissive of God's Word, what's next? Maybe better to keep these opinions to yourself?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Faith is not only described as a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), faith is also described as obeying what God tells you to do.

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

It's the same faith by which you were saved.

Much love!

The same faith by which we are saved, that is, trusting in the efficacy of Jesus' death on the cross, and His resurrection, this is the faith that saves us, and by that exact same faith we have access into this grace in which we stand.

Our trust in Jesus, the efficacy - effectiveness - of His death and resurrection, both saves us, and lets us stand in His grace.

Much love!

 

[mailmandan]

You are taking away from the meaning of "faith" in conflating it with "obedience", and I'm not playing along.

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

Amen brother!

The same faith by which we are saved, that is, trusting in the efficacy of Jesus' death on the cross, and His resurrection, this is the faith that saves us, and by that exact same faith we have access into this grace in which we stand.

Our trust in Jesus, the efficacy - effectiveness - of His death and resurrection, both saves us, and let's us stand in His grace.

Much love!

Amen and again I say, AMEN! The efficacy of Christ's death and resurrection is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

We are told to fight the good fight of faith. Fighting is not a belief alone. 1 Timothy 5:8 basically says that by our misconduct in a particular area, we can deny the faith. So our conduct is tied to the faith. Works makes one’s faith perfect according to James and so you are not really believing fully how the Bible describes faith. Again… if I asked you if the work of the Lord is separate from the Lord, you will say… “no”; But when it comes to asking if the “work of faith’ is separate from the faith you will say they are two alien and or foreign things (and or they are not the same). Faith without works is dead. So your faith is dead if there is no work of faith. So faith is not always a belief alone. Your whole New Testament is a part of the faith. For what part of the New Testament do you not believe in by faith? Just the parts where God tells you to obey Him? Think.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Amen brother!

Amen and again I say, AMEN! The efficacy of Christ's death and resurrection is sufficient and complete to save believers. (Romans 3:24-28) No supplements needed.

What you call supplements are actual Bible verses I quoted to you that do talk about salvation. Again… 1 Timothy 5:8 says if you do not provide for your own, you are worse than an infidel, and you have denied the faith. Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever (infidel). So your whole… “they were never born again” excuse is simply false. So if the belief in the death, and resurrection (Note: You left out the burial part in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) is sufficient to save alone, then what do you need 1 Timothy 5:8 for? You don’t. You will either ignore it or you will twist it to your own destruction to say something else or make it appear like it is effectual of all true believers. But if that is the case, then why didn’t Paul tell us about that in 1 Timothy?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The same faith by which we are saved, that is, trusting in the efficacy of Jesus' death on the cross, and His resurrection, this is the faith that saves us, and by that exact same faith we have access into this grace in which we stand.

Our trust in Jesus, the efficacy - effectiveness - of His death and resurrection, both saves us, and lets us stand in His grace.

Much love!

After we are first saved by God’s grace
(A process of salvation without works):
There Are Things We Need To Do As A Part of Eternal Life:


#1. Abide in Jesus and bear fruit to not be cast forth like a branch to be burned in the fire. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned. See also John 14:23, John 15:4-7, Matthew 3:10.

#2. Abide in the doctrine of Christ. 2 John 1:9 says, Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. See also 2 John 1:5-8.

#3. Know Jesus. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation). 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.”

#4. Do not stumble at the Word being disobedient (1 Peter 2:8). See also: 2 Timothy 3:1-9.
Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (James 1:22). See John 8:47. See 2 Timothy 3:13.

#5. Be like the faithful servant of the Lord (being faithful over a few things) whereby he entered into the joy of his Lord and do not be like the unprofitable servant who was cast into outer darkness – (Matthew 25:23) (Matthew 25:30).

#6. Have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. (Romans 6:22).

#7. Be not be weary (tired) and faint not in sowing to the Spirit to reap life everlasting. This sowing to the Spirit is “well doing” (good works) (See Galatians 6:8-9).

#8. Put to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit to live.
For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify (put to death) the deeds of the body (sin), you shall live. (Romans 8:13).

#9. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, (1 Timothy 6:12).

#10. Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:2). Hebrews 10:36 says: “For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:” 1 John 2:15 says: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”

#11. Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:14).

#12. Obey Jesus in order to be a part of all those in whom Jesus became the author of eternal salvation for. How so? Well, because Hebrews 5:9 says, “And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”

#13. Be humble to get grace. For God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. (See James 4:6). 1 Timothy 6:3-4 says that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. So any time a person is proud, they are resisting God’s grace.

#14. Bring forth fruits worthy of repentance - for the ax is laid to the root of the tree (Matthew 3:10).

#15. Beware, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked (2 Peter 3:17).

#16. Bridle your tongue so as not to deceive your heart and so as not to have your religion be in vain (James 1:26).

#17. As a part of making your calling and election sure, do these things (see following note) and you will never stumble; and an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:10-11).

Note: These are the things we are to do:

1. Add to your Faith: Virtue.
2. Add to Virtue: Knowledge.
3. Add to Knowledge: Self Control.
4. Add to Self Control: Perseverance.
5. Add to Perseverance: Godliness.
6. Add to Godliness: Brotherly kindness.
7. Add to Brotherly kindness: Charity (Love).

So it does not sound like do nothing but believe. There are more things like this in the Bible. But of course you desire to not see them because you prefer a more comforting man made message IWhich in reality is the wide gate path most today are on).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't presume. I selected what to answer. First things first.

I focus on getting people to sin, now I'm dismissive of God's Word, what's next? Maybe better to keep these opinions to yourself?

Much love!

So you basically said…

#1. You believe that you don’t become unborn (i.e. lose salvation) by sin (Which runs contrary to the warnings on how sin can destroy our soul by the Lord Jesus Himself in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etcetera).
#2. You hold to the view that Paul struggled with sin as a Christian in Romans 7:14-24. Yet, this contradicts the words of Jesus and Paul elsewhere in overcoming sin (John 5:14) (John 8:11) (Ephesians 4:6) (2 Corinthians 7:1).
#3. You assumed that I did not keep the first greatest commandment (Making it sound like nobody can really obey God).

Folks can check out my previous post to you that includes the post #’s of your writings that have said these things. So don’t pretend like you are for obedience always when that is not how you have always represented yourself here.

 

[marks]

But of course you desire to not see them because you prefer a more comforting man made message

And this to you is righteousness?

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And this to you is righteousness?

Much love!

Yes. For if you believe the Scriptures I have just shown then you would not hold to a man made comforting message. That is what many in Christianity today believe. Your espousing the same thing (unfortunately). But yes. To teach the truth of God’s Word that you don’t accept is standing up for the true righteousness of God. You are simply unable to see the verses because of what you have been taught.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't presume. I selected what to answer. First things first.

I focus on getting people to sin, now I'm dismissive of God's Word, what's next? Maybe better to keep these opinions to yourself?

Much love!

Indirectly a person is leading others to sin if they teach against the words of Jesus in His warnings how sin can condemn our souls in the afterlife (i.e. hell) (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). When you tried to convince me of how Romans 7:14-24 is Paul struggling with sin (and you believe men are saved even if they sin), this goes against the truth of what is really being said in the Bible because Paul struggled with sin as a Pharisee and not as a Christian. This of course means you are suggesting the idea that it is normal for Christians to struggle with sin and or abide in sin and be saved (Even when the Bible is not teaching that). Then you implied that I was not keeping God’s greatest command. So again…. Before your focus was not on obedience to God. Man up and face the music of your own words.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are taking away from the meaning of "faith" in conflating it with "obedience", and I'm not playing along.

Faith has it's meaning, and obedience has it's meaning, and they are different meanings. The faithful endeavor to obey, but that doesn't make the words the same.

Much love!

It’s called reading the Bible. So to not play along means your not wanting to deal with the verses that refute your wrong belief here. I say this not to wound you but to challenge you in love in seeking out the truth.

 

[marks]

Man up and face the music of your own words.

Your words . . .that I'm focused on getting people to sin.

You could just acknowledge and move on, but I think I know why you cannot . . .

You'd no longer be saved. I'm focused on getting you to recongnize right and wrong, not to do wrong. Anyway, I'm here to discuss Scripture, not make a personal defense. So I'm moving on.

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your words . . .that I'm focused on getting people to sin.

You could just acknowledge and move on, but I think I know why you cannot . . .

You'd no longer be saved. I'm focused on getting you to recongnize right and wrong, not to do wrong. Anyway, I'm here to discuss Scripture, not make a personal defense. So I'm moving on.

Much love!

Is not your interpreation on Romans 7:14-24 Paul struggling with sin?
Do you believe Paul was saved as he sinned in Romans 7:14-24?
Do you not believe that sin does not cause you to lose salvation?
Did you not imply before with me that I am not keeping the 1st greatest commandment?
Do you not realize that teaching such a message to children can lead them think they can sin and still be saved.
For if sin does not separate us from God, then one can treat God’s grace as a license for immorality (See Jude 1:4).
That’s what you are not getting here. Jesus warned us about how sin can destroy our souls (of which you reject) (See again Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62).