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The Golden Rule not applicable to Christ or those who follow him.

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by shnarkle, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. You can't

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  2. The self denied must then be reconstituted into a new self to love others

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  3. The self or identity isn't necessary to love others

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  1. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Christ abrogates the Golden Rule by saying "Love others as I have loved you". How many can honestly claim that they love others the way Christ loves the world?

    The fact is that only those who are in Christ can love as Christ loves the world. Everyone else is a fraud.

    At the core of Christ's message is self denial/self sacrifice so once one denies themselves, there is no one else left other than Christ. As Paul says, "not me, but Christ in me". We only live in, with, and through Christ. Again, Paul puts it well when he says, "In him we live and move and have our being", or as Christ puts it, "Apart from me, you can do nothing".
     
  2. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    :) Interesting post.

    I wonder what my friend @amadeus would post ...I hpe he does have some insight here.

    Im watching this thread :)
     
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  3. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Loving others as ourselves is at the righteousness level. The level of what is humanly possible. The minimum standard. On the holiness level this becomes love others as I have loved you.

    They who are in Christ love as Jesus loves.
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You are good at coming up with bogus arguments. Since Christ established the Golden Rule, how could He possibly abrogate it?
     
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    The Golden Rule, "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you" is a step up from where most of us begin.
    Jesus did not abrogate the Golden Rule. His example and his words show rather that He showed us a higher place when and if we are able to see it and also to do it.


    "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31 [=Golden Rule]

    "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you" John 15:12 [as per OP]

    And Paul effectively describes what Jesus actually did... that is how he lived in that perfect example:

    "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3

    Jesus did not want to suffer and die. Jesus knew about hunger, pain and suffering . He experienced all of them and as a man tempted as every man of flesh is tempted he wanted to avoid them as seen in this prayer:

    "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

    But after three times any remnants of the carnal desire, the temptations of his flesh were overcome and he went on to lay his physical life down because of His Father and because of us:

    He truly esteemed all of us better than himself:

    "No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18

    So then again now read Apostle Paul's words:

    "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phil 2:3
     
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  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Hey, Shnarkle.

    I won't put it like Enoch did, but while the rest of the post seems solid, leading off with that Christ has abrogated the golden rule is actually in conflict with the rest of the post. If He has commanded us to A. Love the Lord our God with our whole heart, mind, soul and strength, and B. Love our neighbor as ourself, then it follows He has not only not abrogated the golden rule but opened the door for us to fulfill it and then openly commanded us to do so.

    It's like a trick question : )
     
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  7. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I guess the Sermon on the Mount is generally relevant...
     
  8. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    I can see why you would say that, but if a masochist loves their neighbor the way they wish to be loved, then they're going to get something considerably less than the love of Christ.

    There are a lot of people who don't treat themselves very well, and to treat others that way can be downright evil.

    When Christ points out that the greatest commandment is to love God with their whole being, and that loving others is just like that, he's pointing out that loving your neighbor is just like loving God. If you love God, you'll love your neighbor the same way.

    Christ sees that the world is full of image bearers. He will lay his life down for them because he sees himself in them. God conforms us to his image, not ourselves.
     
  9. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    I think I see what you are driving at, only the difference is Christ really hasn't commanded the world to keep the golden rule. That was merely something Christian America used to try and force on society back in the old days. But Christ only commands His disciples to keep this. As Paul said, "What have I to do with those outside, do you not judge those inside?"

    Those outside the church reject Him personally. There's no need to even attempt to get them to receive His commandments.

    So as far as the church goes, it was never abrogated. As far as the world goes, it was never given.
     
  10. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Just about every religious faith in existence has some version of the golden rule.

    Everyone outside is judged guilty outside the law.

    If one does not deny themselves, then the golden rule is the default law. The only way to love as Christ loves is through self denial. The new creature in Christ is incapable of doing anything else.
     
  11. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but not all seek to keep it because of a relationship with the True and Living God. They have versions of moral law because we are created with a sense of justice within us. But for a person to be responsible to God for what He commands them to do, they have to have a relationship with Him first. Their sin is in rejecting Him as God. Not obeying Him is kind of a given after that.
    Essentially, everyone is either judged to be in Christ or not in Christ. Those not in Christ are condemned whether they were good law-abiding, kind and considerate citizens (for the most part) or not. Being in Christ is the law, and not being in Christ is the default law that condemns a man.
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    I guess our friend @shnarkle still has me on "ignore" since he has not responded my post about his OP. I wouldn't mind so much if I knew why.
     
  13. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Shnarkle likes to bat things around a lot, so I would think you would be the perfect person to throw pitches at. :D
    As for me, maybe I'm easier to follow, so that makes me an easier target to hit, LoL.

    (Just kidding, Shnarkle).
     
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  14. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    I'm not firing on all cylinders tonight so I missed the joke. Although whoever you're responding to is someone I ignored so that may be why I'm not getting it.
     
  15. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    That's what he was saying must be happening as well. Although he's not a troll, just someone who tries to make people think. You're the same way, so maybe that's the problem between you : )
     
  16. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I'm overthinking it.
     
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