The good man that turned bad out of necessity

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Mancunian

Active Member
Aug 17, 2026
769
212
43
Cheshire
Faith
Atheist
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Followers of Jesus must follow the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles, not the US government (nor any other government of the world.)
Approximately 70 percent of active-duty U.S. military personnel identify as Christian, which translates to roughly 910,000 soldiers and service members out of a total active-duty force of about 1.3 million.
Data compiled from Department of Defense
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riven

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,808
26,003
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Approximately 70 percent of active-duty U.S. military personnel identify as Christian, which translates to roughly 910,000 soldiers and service members out of a total active-duty force of about 1.3 million.
Data compiled from Department of Defense

They aren’t following the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles.
 

Mancunian

Active Member
Aug 17, 2026
769
212
43
Cheshire
Faith
Atheist
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
They aren’t following the teaching and example of Jesus and the apostles.
So are all of those Christians wrong? Are all of those Christians doomed?

I'll answer for you.... No they're not, because you don't have to follow the example of Jesus and the apostles to be saved.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,808
26,003
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
So are all of those Christians wrong?

Yes.

Are all of those Christians doomed?

That’s in Jesus’ hands. They will explain what they did and why they did it to Jesus. Willfully disobeying him is rejecting him.

I'll answer for you....

You haven’t demonstrated the ability to reliably answer for me.

No they're not, because you don't have to follow the example of Jesus and the apostles to be saved.

You know that they aren’t. Beyond that, you don’t stand on solid ground.
 

Mancunian

Active Member
Aug 17, 2026
769
212
43
Cheshire
Faith
Atheist
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Yes.



That’s in Jesus’ hands. They will explain what they did and why they did it to Jesus. Willfully disobeying him is rejecting him.



You haven’t demonstrated the ability to reliably answer for me.



You know that they aren’t. Beyond that, you don’t stand on solid ground.
Yes I do because you have already told me that rapists and murderers will be in heaven, and the victims of these people could possibly meet them again.
Seems to me that the Bible, the rule book can be ignored as long as you are sincerely sorry.
So I'm reiterating what you've said previously.

And, what's the point in having a set of rules and a set of role models that can be ignored?

Is salvation attained by faith alone, or by works? Or by being sorry?
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,808
26,003
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Yes I do because you have already told me that rapists and murderers will be in heaven, and the victims of these people could possibly meet them again.

No. I told you that no one is going to heaven and that only those who repent will be allowed to enter the Kingdom of God.

Seems to me that the Bible, the rule book can be ignored as long as you are sincerely sorry.
So I'm reiterating what you've said previously.

And, what's the point in having a set of rules and a set of role models that can be ignored?

Is salvation attained by faith alone, or by works? Or by being sorry?
 

Riven

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2024
1,828
1,397
113
38
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I think what matters is how we approach the talking donkey story.

Is Shrek based on a real character, and if so, did it sound like Eddie Murphy?

great-excellent.gif
 

Riven

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2024
1,828
1,397
113
38
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Atheists dismiss the point made in Bible stories, “weird” or not.
I mean, why not have stories involving dragons and such? If the purpose of the story is allegory, why not make it more exciting? I posed this question once to a pastor and he said it would seem unbelievable.

To which I said, compared to what? You got people rising from the dead on a regular basis. It wasn't just Jesus, you had Lazarus, and all the graves in Jerusalem opened up at one point with the dead greeting the living. Apparently resurrection was something of a banality at the time.

Dragons seem tame by comparison. Everyone expects them to show up in these ancient stories, it's practically a prerequisite. I think the closest you get is Lucifer changing into a dragon while he's fighting the arch angel Michael during the battle of heaven.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,808
26,003
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I mean, why not have stories involving dragons and such?

He wasn’t riding a dragon.

If the purpose of the story is allegory …

Does the fact that the story isn’t about a man and his dragon influence your decision about whether the story is or isn’t an allegory?

… why not make it more exciting? I posed this question once to a pastor and he said it would seem unbelievable.

He may have a valid point but I don’t like his answer. My father used to tell me when we were discussing billiards and beer at the tavern, “Don’t shoot a scared stick.” (I was five at the time but I was still able to catch his drift.)

To which I said, compared to what? You got people rising from the dead on a regular basis. It wasn't just Jesus, you had Lazarus, and all the graves in Jerusalem opened up at one point with the dead greeting the living. Apparently resurrection was something of a banality at the time.

Dragons seem tame by comparison. Everyone expects them to show up in these ancient stories, it's practically a prerequisite. I think the closest you get is Lucifer changing into a dragon while he's fighting the arch angel Michael during the battle of heaven.
 

Riven

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2024
1,828
1,397
113
38
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Does the fact that the story isn’t about a man and his dragon influence your decision about whether the story is or isn’t an allegory?
Not really. I genuinely want to know how Christians just shrug at the story and treat it like it's another Tuesday.

He may have a valid point but I don’t like his answer. My father used to tell me when we were discussing billiards and beer at the tavern, “Don’t shoot a scared stick.” (I was five at the time but I was still able to catch his drift.)
Really? I'm 38 and I don't get it. :confused
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
36,808
26,003
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Not really. I genuinely want to know how Christians just shrug at the story and treat it like it's another Tuesday.

I think it’s pretty simple. God can do anything (within the boundaries of his character.)

Really? I'm 38 and I don't get it. :confused

Act with confidence. The pastor you spoke with gave, imo, a shaky answer. (Shooting pool without confidence is losing pool. Steady, not shaky, is key.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riven

Mancunian

Active Member
Aug 17, 2026
769
212
43
Cheshire
Faith
Atheist
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
There is only one account of Jesus reading text throughout the Bible, and one of him writing something in the dirt, although there's no record of what he wrote.
Literacy rates at the time were pitifully low, between 3 and 5 percent.