The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[Matthias]

Our country would be Britain. How does rebelling against the government fit with Paul’s instruction on how Christians are to relate to the government?

“The people of God then ought to consider resistance to the government under which they live as a very awful crime, even as resistance to God Himself.”

(Robert Haldane, An Exposition of Romans, p. 579; quoted by John MacArthur, Why Government Can’t Save You, p. 31)

 

[markalan]

“I came across the book A Song for Nagasaki a few years ago, and it was one of the most unforgettable books I have ever read. …

As I finished this book, I marveled that Takashi Nagai and his story are mostly unknown here in America. I believe it is just as important that we not forget Hiroshima and Nagasaki as it is that we not forget Auschwitz and Dachau. Jesus would never endorse the torture and suffering and killing and destruction the atomic bomb caused. Why do we so readily agree that the Holocaust was a sin, but defend the atomic bombings? …

No rational human contests the horrors of the Holocaust. It is universally decried, except by a few marginalized ‘Holocaust deniers.’ Why is it so controversial to question or criticize dropping atomic bombs on a city filled with children and families and teachers and doctors just living their lives?

Let's not forget that allied troops were made up of fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons being killed ... if defeating Japan was important for world peace, then it was a matter of deciding which action would result in the lower number of casualties - invasion or using the atomic bombs. Most analysis I've seen says that using the bombs saved lives in the overall number.

I would like to leave you with a question. On August 9, 1945 where do we find Jesus? In a B-29 flying over Nagasaki? Or with the worshipers, soon to be sufferers, praying in the Urakami Cathedral?

The bombs saved Japanese lives -

Victor Davis Hanson: The Atomic Bombs Dropped in Japan Were Not Satanic

 

[markalan]

“The people of God then ought to consider resistance to the government under which they live as a very awful crime, even as resistance to God Himself.”

(Robert Haldane, An Exposition of Romans, p. 579; quoted by John MacArthur, Why Government Can’t Save You, p. 31)

That is only one side of the issue -
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29)

What would you do in this situation? Here in some Australian states, a pastor can be sentenced to a maximum of 10 years jail for praying with a person who requests prayer to change or suppress same sex feelings or gender dysphoria.

 

[Matthias]

That is only one side of the issue -
Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men (Acts 5:29)

That’s right. I’ll be quoting MacArthur on the subject of civil disobedience. (See post #1066.)

What would you do in this situation? Here in some Australian states, a pastor can be sentenced to a maximum of 10 years jail for praying with a person who requests prayer to change or suppress same sex feelings or gender dysphoria.

I would pray privately with the person who requested it.

 

[Matthias]

Let's not forget that allied troops were made up of fathers, husbands, brothers, and sons being killed ... if defeating Japan was important for world peace, then it was a matter of deciding which action would result in the lower number of casualties - invasion or using the atomic bombs. Most analysis I've seen says that using the bombs saved lives in the overall number.



The bombs saved Japanese lives -

Victor Davis Hanson: The Atomic Bombs Dropped in Japan Were Not Satanic

You’re rationalizing. Perhaps one day the country you’re living in and / or the country I’m living in will be on the receiving end of nuclear weapons. If that should happen, will you remember that somewhere someone is comforting themselves with the thought that it saved lives?

 

[Matthias]

“… believers should willingly place themselves under all government leaders, no matter who those officials are.

Notice that the apostle, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, gives this command without qualification or condition. We are to obey every civil authority, no matter how immoral, cruel, ungodly, or incompetent he or she might be. Any government is better than anarchy, but those character qualities and leadership traits in rulers can make obedience difficult. …

But the inspired writers, early in Old Testament history, recognized there is one exception or limitation to our divinely mandated obligation of civil obedience: whenever an ordinance or official command would require that we disobey God’s will or His Word.”

(John MacArthur, Why Government Can’t Save You, pp. 22,23)

”Most of us will seldom face the need to ‘obey God rather than men.’ Nearly always it will be God’s will that we obey, both from His Word and through human authority. … Even on those rare occasions when we must follow the exception principle regarding civil disobedience, we should do so respectfully, prepared to suffer the consequences or penalties that may result. In those instances, we must heed Peter’s instruction that ‘it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil’ (1 Peter 3:17). And above all we should never, in any of our dealings with authority (or in any social relationships) ‘suffer as a murderer, thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people’s matters’ (4:15). …”

(Ibid., p. 25)

”Secular authority may persecute us in various ways because of our Christian convictions. However, there is no type of persecution that should cause us to revolt against the government. It should only cause us to patiently endure the trial and persevere in righteousness.”

(Ibid., pp. 26-27)

 

[Matthias]

Our country would be Britain. How does rebelling against the government fit with Paul’s instruction on how Christians are to relate to the government?

“Over the past several centuries, people have mistakenly linked democracy and political freedom to Christianity. That’s why many contemporary evangelicals believe the American Revolution was completely justified, both politically and scripturally. They follow the argumentation of the Declaration of Independence, which declares that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are divinely endowed rights. Therefore those believers say such rights are part of a Christian worldview, worth attaining and defending at all costs, including military insurrection at times. But such a position is contrary to the clear teachings and commands of Romans 13:1-7. So the United States was actually born out of a violation of New Testament principles, and any blessings that God has bestowed on America have come in spite of that disobedience by the Founding Fathers.”

(John MacArthur, Why Government Can’t Save You, pp. 6-7)

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning -

“To maximize the sense of terror and make the tanks seem like authentic ‘iron beasts’ in * All Quiet on the Western Front * (2022), the film’s sound team modified metallic noises and industrial engine sounds. The result was absolutely stunning.”

El Pare || Cine y series (@ElPare89) on X

Para maximizar la sensación de terror y que los tanques parecieran auténticas “bestias de hierro” en «All Quiet on the Western Front» (2022), el equipo de sonido de la película modificó ruidos metálicos y de motores industriales. El resultado fue absolutamente impactante. https://t.co/XKo9xTTYSp

x.com

Quite. Watch the video clip. That’s not the business of followers of Jesus that we’re watching.

 

[Riven]

You’re rationalizing. Perhaps one day the country you’re living in and / or the country I’m living in will be on the receiving end of nuclear weapons. If that should happen, will you remember that somewhere someone is comforting themselves with the thought that it saved lives?

How is it rationalizing when an invasion of mainland Japan would have resulted in a million Americans dead? The atomic bombs did ultimately save lives, and they continue to save lives today by deterring aggression.

 

[Matthias]

How is it rationalizing when an invasion of mainland Japan would have resulted in a million Americans dead? The atomic bombs did ultimately save lives, and they continue to save lives today by deterring aggression.

We’ve discussed that already.

 

[markalan]

You’re rationalizing. Perhaps one day the country you’re living in and / or the country I’m living in will be on the receiving end of nuclear weapons. If that should happen, will you remember that somewhere someone is comforting themselves with the thought that it saved lives?

"Rationalizing" is the process of evaluating each situation considering all the facts.

If there is a future nuclear war it will have nothing to do with little boy & fat man ... it is about the ceaseless progress of science. Germany, Japan & Soviet Union were all looking into nuclear weapons during WW2.

 

[Matthias]

"Rationalizing" is the process of evaluating each situation considering all the facts.

Yes.

If there is a future nuclear war it will have nothing to do with little boy & fat man ...

That’s where it started.

it is about the ceaseless progress of science. Germany, Japan & Soviet Union were all looking into nuclear weapons during WW2.

That’s right.

You’ll still be dead or suffering at the hands of someone who rationalized that it was in their best interest, and perhaps in the best interest of world peace, to do it to you, to your family, to your fellow countrymen.

Will it go down better in your mind if those who do it call themselves Christian?

Would it ease your mind and suffering to know that your country retaliated and did to them what they did to you and your country?

 

[markalan]

MacArthur: ”Most of us will seldom face the need to ‘obey God rather than men.’ Nearly always it will be God’s will that we obey, both from His Word and through human authority. … Even on those rare occasions when we must follow the exception principle regarding civil disobedience, we should do so respectfully, prepared to suffer the consequences or penalties that may result.

There are very few Christians who have not felt compelled to disobey the law, or know someone who has, since morality has become increasingly politicized.

I agree with the comment "we must follow the exception principle regarding civil disobedience, we should do so respectfully, prepared to suffer the consequences or penalties that may result."

However, that does not mean a person should not pursue legal redress, not only for themselves but for others who may be similarly prosecuted.

 

[Matthias]

The devil just planted an evil thought in my mind: If I would just agree to kill one million Christians living in another country, China, the Christians living in the country where I reside, the United States of America, would live happily in the peace, security and comfort which we so richly deserve.

 

[Matthias]

There are very few Christians who have not felt compelled to disobey the law, or know someone who has, since morality has become increasingly politicized.

I myself worked for the government and bucked against it on a few occasions.

I agree with the comment "we must follow the exception principle regarding civil disobedience, we should do so respectfully, prepared to suffer the consequences or penalties that may result."

However, that does not mean a person should not pursue legal redress, not only for themselves but for others who may be similarly prosecuted.