The good the bad, and the rest

[Matthias]

An ace in the hole.

Elohim, always plural in form*, is seldom plural in meaning in the Bible; and never plural in meaning when used in reference to Yahweh.

* This is the key. The word isn’t plural, it’s plural in form.

 

[Matthias]

You have not posted a single scripture!!!

I use the same scripture that you do.

God. Singular in form, singular in meaning. That alone settles the issue.

“ In the beginning God …” (Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, singular in meaning.

***

Dead giveaway:

“In the beginning gods …” (not a valid translation of Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, plural in meaning.

***

There is no English translation of the Bible that translates elohim as plural in Genesis 1:1.

Who is God? Yahweh.

 

[Matthias]

It’s a valid choice, but a poor one in my opinion, not to follow trinitarian scholarship.

”Jesus wasn’t, and isn’t, Yahweh.”

Dr. Witherington, a prominent trinitarian author and scholar in our time, is speaking within the confines of history.

Yahweh - the God and Father of Jesus of Nazareth - is the person who acted in Genesis 1:1.

 

[David in NJ]

I use the same scripture that you do.

God. Singular in form, singular in meaning. That alone settles the issue.

“ In the beginning God …” (Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, singular in meaning.

***

Dead giveaway:

“In the beginning gods …” (not a valid translation of Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, plural in meaning.

***

There is no English translation of the Bible that translates elohim as plural in Genesis 1:1.

Who is God? Yahweh.

Good Morning

“ In the beginning God …” (Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, ECHAD in meaning.

Echad is One in UNITY , therefore the Scriptures speak that Elohim/Plural is Echad/One

There is One FATHER/God
There is One WORD/SON
There is One HOLY SPIRIT

The FATHER is Elohim Spirit
The SON is Elohim Spirit
The HOLY SPIRIT is Elohim Spirit

THE THREE are the SAME BEING/Spirit and yet they are Uniquely THREE and this is BEYOND our human comprehension

Genesis begins with Elohim as THREE and continues with THREE all the way to the GOSPEL, the Apostles Witness and finally Revelation

The THREE are Defined for us in Genesis and the THREE are confirmed in Exodus and Validated in the Gospel.

We are called to BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4

The FATHER Speaks TRUTH
The WORD/SON Speaks TRUTH
The HOLY SPIRIT Speaks TRUTH

All THREE Speak the Echad TRUTH for THEY are Echad ELOHIM

 

[Matthias]

Good Morning

“ In the beginning God …” (Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, ECHAD in meaning.

Echad means one, not more than one.

Elohim is always plural in form, always singular in meaning when speaking about Yahweh.

You can prove it for yourself - anyone can - but you refuse to.

Echad is One in UNITY , therefore the Scriptures speak that Elohim/Plural is Echad/One

Echad can modify a collective noun, but Yahweh isn’t a collective noun.

The God of the scriptures is Yahweh, the God and Father of someone who isn’t Yahweh. See post #83.

There is One FATHER/God
There is One WORD/SON
There is One HOLY SPIRIT

The FATHER is Elohim Spirit
The SON is Elohim Spirit
The HOLY SPIRIT is Elohim Spirit

THE THREE are the SAME BEING/Spirit and yet they are Uniquely THREE and this is BEYOND our human comprehension

Genesis begins with Elohim as THREE and continues with THREE all the way to the GOSPEL, the Apostles Witness and finally Revelation

The THREE are Defined for us in Genesis and the THREE are confirmed in Exodus and Validated in the Gospel.

We are called to BELIEVE every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matthew 4:4

The FATHER Speaks TRUTH
The WORD/SON Speaks TRUTH
The HOLY SPIRIT Speaks TRUTH

All THREE Speak the Echad TRUTH for THEY are Echad ELOHIM

Moses is a Jewish monotheist.

 

[David in NJ]

Echad means one, not more than one.

Elohim is always plural in form, always singular in meaning when speaking about Yahweh.

You can prove it for yourself, anyone can, but you refuse to.



Echad can modify a collective noun, but Yahweh isn’t a collective noun.

The God of the scriptures is Yahweh, the God and Father of someone who isn’t Yahweh.



Moses is a Jewish monotheist.

Who did Moses see and hear???

The LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

our God,
אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)
Noun - masculine plural construct | first person common plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה ׀ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

is One.
אֶחָֽד׃‪‬ (’e·ḥāḏ)
Number - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 259: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first 1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)

 

[Matthias]

Who did Moses see and hear???

The LORD
יְהוָ֥ה (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

our God,
אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ (’ĕ·lō·hê·nū)
Noun - masculine plural construct | first person common plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God

the LORD
יְהוָ֥ה ׀ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: Jehovah = 'the existing One' 1) the proper name of the one true God 1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of H0136

is One.
אֶחָֽד׃‪‬ (’e·ḥāḏ)
Number - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 259: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first 1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)

You provided all of the information needed, confirming my position.

Moses isn’t a trinitarian. He’s a Jewish monotheist.

 

[Matthias]

“ In the beginning God …” (Genesis 1:1) -> elohim, always plural in form, ECHAD in meaning.

This English rendering of Genesis 1:1 is correct. It isn’t elohim, plural; it’s elohim, singular.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Is the thread creator gone?

 

[David in NJ]

This English rendering of Genesis 1:1 is correct. It isn’t elohim, plural; it’s elohim, singular.

The Scriptures are correct.
Your temporary understanding of what God says is partly cloudy with some SON.

Elohim is PLURAL and ALL throughout Scripture it remains PLURAL

Elohim Says: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = PLURAL/3

 

[Matthias]

The Scriptures are correct.

That’s right.

Your temporary understanding of what God says ….

My understanding of what God says isn’t in any shape, form or fashion temporary.

….is partly cloudy with some SON.

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Elohim is PLURAL and ALL throughout Scripture it remains PLURAL

That’s wrong - and every English translation proves that you’re wrong - but if you’re going to insist on it then I must insist that you translate it as plural.

Elohim Says: "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = PLURAL/3

Elohim is singular, not plural. Yahweh (he, not they, them, we or us) is speaking to his angelic court. A number of trinitarian scholars have conceded this point. (You would know that if you followed trinitarian scholarship.)

Neither Moses nor any other Jewish monotheist - Old Testament and New Testament - understand the passage as you do.

 

[Matthias]

Is the thread creator gone?

Yes. His account was closed a few months ago.

 

[David in NJ]

That’s right.



My understanding of what God says isn’t in any shape, form or fashion temporary.



I don’t know what you’re talking about.



That’s wrong - and every English translation proves that you’re wrong - but if you’re going to insist on it then I must insist that you translate it as plural.



Elohim is singular, not plural. Yahweh (he, not they, them, we or us) is speaking to his angelic court. A number of trinitarian scholars have conceded this point. (You would know that if you followed trinitarian scholarship.)

Neither Moses nor any other Jewish monotheist - Old Testament and New Testament - understand the passage as you do.

We are 2,000 Years since Messiah walked this earth.

Satan has been walking this earth for more then 2,000 years as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
Satan has his scholars and our Heavenly FATHER has HIS.

It will always be HE Said versus hisss said, until the Day that the blinders are removed.

i am not a 'trinitarian' but i am a follower of "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God'

Elohim will always be Plural for THEY are THREE
Elohim will always be spoken/written as Echad because the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT are ONE
Elohim will always be worshipped as THREE = "Holy, Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty = Who Was, Is and is to Come"

Every scholar has been met with that which they cannot resist nor overcome.
All to the Praise and Honor and Glory of the Lord God Almighty

 

[Matthias]

We are 2,000 Years since Messiah walked this earth.

The Messiah hasn’t changed.

Satan has been walking this earth for more then 2,000 years as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
Satan has his scholars and our Heavenly FATHER has HIS.

Do you think trinitarian scholars are Satan’s scholars?

It will always be HE Said versus hisss said, until the Day that the blinders are removed.

Satan is a liar and the father of lies. His doom is sure.

i am not a 'trinitarian' …

Do the trinitarians here know that you aren’t a trinitarian? If they do, what do they say to you about it?

… but i am a follower of "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God'

Me too.

Elohim will always be Plural for THEY are THREE

Since you testify of yourself that you aren’t a trinitarian, how many persons are “they”?

Elohim will always be spoken/written as Echad because the FATHER/SON/HOLY SPIRIT are ONE
Elohim will always be worshipped as THREE = "Holy, Holy Holy is the Lord God Almighty = Who Was, Is and is to Come"

Never in the Jewish monotheism of the Messiah. (He hasn’t changed and never will.)

Every scholar has been met with that which they cannot resist nor overcome.

I don’t understand what you mean by that.

All to the Praise and Honor and Glory of the Lord God Almighty

In Jewish monotheism that’s the Messiah’s God.

 

[David in NJ]

The Messiah hasn’t changed.



Do you think trinitarian scholars are Satan’s scholars?



Satan is a liar and the father of lies. His doom is sure.



Do the trinitarians here know that you aren’t a trinitarian? If they do, what do they say to you about it?



Me too.



Since you testify of yourself that you aren’t a trinitarian, how many persons are “they”?



Never in the Jewish monotheism of the Messiah. (He hasn’t changed and never will.)



I don’t understand what you mean by that.



In Jewish monotheism that’s the Messiah’s God.

eating dinner

 

[Matthias]

Coming up next:

Three persons, elohim is plural theology has a name, and it isn’t trinitarian.

Name that theology.

 

[David in NJ]

Coming up next:

Three persons, elohim is plural theology has a name, and it isn’t trinitarian.

Name that theology.

As the Scripture, which cannot lie, Says: THREE are ONE

and Good Morning

 

[Matthias]

As the Scripture, which cannot lie, Says: THREE are ONE

and Good Morning

Good morning.

The Messiah’s God is only one.

Your theology isn’t his, nor is it the theology of the trinitarians.

How have the trinitarians dealt with yours?

 

[David in NJ]

Good morning.

The Messiah’s God is only one.

Your theology isn’t his, nor is it the theology of the trinitarians.

How have the trinitarians dealt with yours?

Messiah came from the very CENTER of the FATHER as did His Holy Spirit.

Today, begin believing every word of God so that you can see more clearly.

Elohim/Plural said "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven,
and of those on earth,
and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You rob God of His glory when you dishonor His Son who is the Lord
If you dishonor the SON you grieve(sin) the Holy Spirit
If you grieve the HOLY SPIRIT you dishonor Both the SON who is Lord and His FATHER who is God

For THEY are Echad Elohim

 

[Matthias]

Messiah came from the very CENTER of the FATHER as did His Holy Spirit.

Today, begin believing every word of God so that you can see more clearly.

Elohim/Plural said "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven,
and of those on earth,
and of those under the earth,
and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

You rob God of His glory when you dishonor His Son who is the Lord
If you dishonor the SON you grieve(sin) the Holy Spirit
If you grieve the HOLY SPIRIT you dishonor Both the SON who is Lord and His FATHER who is God

For THEY are Echad Elohim

I’ve figured you out. My question was in regard to whether or not the trinitarians have.