The Gospel is actually good news and here is why.

[BloodBought 1953]

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. (1 Corinthians 11:28-29 KJV)


“ The Word “ unworthily” is an ADVERB .....it is NOT describing the person ( that would require an adjective) it is describing the MANNER in which a person is partaking......some people were going to the Lord’s Table to stuff their bellies or going there to drink the wine and get drunk! Other Believers were doing just the opposite thing that Jesus told them to do—— Jesus said to do this “ in remembrance of ME” ......NOT as an occasion to look at THEMSELVES to see if their Performance were up to snuff .....it is a place to keep your eyes on Jesus—- not yourself and your pitiful performance of trying to be “ good enough”..

We do not take Communion to examine ourselves to see if we are “ worthy enough” to partake....

Nobody is “ worthy”——- we are *MADE WORTHY* by the Blood Of the Lamb......we are there at the Lord’s Table to “Remember” and Honor the One who made things that way because of His love, Mercy and Grace...... Once again, go to that Table looking at Him — NOT YOURSELF....THAT is partaking “unworthily”.....

 

[Addy]

The OP has nothing to do with proving our faith to others (as James speaks of), but it has everything to do with the Gospel (what Christ has done for our salvation).
We offer nothing but our sinfulness.

It is sooooooooooo refreshing to hear someone tell it like it is....

 

[Addy]

Nobody is “ worthy”——- we are *MADE WORTHY* by the Blood Of the Lamb......we are there at the Lord’s Table to “Remember” and Honor the One who made things that way because of His love, Mercy and Grace...... Once again, go to that Table looking at Him — NOT YOURSELF....THAT is partaking “unworthily”.....

YEP..... you must be off your diet.... I like you that way... HAHA

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.


This is comparing those that Rest in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace Found In 1Cor15:1-4 to those ancient Hebrews that had the Faith to enter the Promised Land .....Those That did not Trust God and enter the Land of Promise and we’re left to waste away in the Sinai Desert were Guilty Of “ Disobedience and Unbelief” —— just like those who do not Rest in the Gospel But think they have to add to it with “ Lucky Repentance” or the complete avoidance of “ willful sins”.....( almost EVERY sin is “ willful” ....you don’t sin by Accident )

The Hebrews were tested by their chance to Trust God or not......we are being tested also....Do you want to be blessed or do you want to “waste away” like the Ancient Hebrews ? You prove what you are made of by whether or not you Rest in the Gospel.....

 

[Cooper]

I agree. But satisfaction does not mean God violated his justice by punishing an innocent man.

Let me put it this way. If you committed a driving offence and could not pay the fine, the penalty might be prison (Hell) but if someone paid the fine for you, then as far as the law is concerned you have a clean sheet and your offence has been blotted out. At the same time, the person who paid YOUR fine remains guiltless.
.

 

[Addy]

Let me put it this way. If you committed a driving offence and could not pay the fine, the penalty might be prison (Hell) but if someone paid the fine for you, then as far as the law is concerned you have a clean sheet and your offence has been blotted out. At the same time, the person who paid YOUR fine remains guiltless.
.

Leave it to Mr. Cooper to compare Christ's Atonement of sin... to a driving offence.

 

[Mungo]

Oh my goodness... Did you actually say this???

That Christ took punishment for all sin is what CHRISTIANITY is all about...

No it isn't Addy

I cannot believe that you can call yourself a Christian yet deny that the blood of CHRIST was total ATONEMENT for our sin. OH my goodness... this is the most HORRIFYING comment I have EVER HEARD spoken by someone who proclaims themselves to be a Christian.

You are the one Catholic I did NOT put on ignore... I have a feeling this is going to change.

Addy, what Jesus did for us by his Passion, Death and Resurrection is about making satisfaction by a sacrifice not being punished in our stead.

Eph 5:2 states “Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God”. This allows the Father to be merciful; to look mercifully on his children and forgive them their sins. In this scenario God is like a loving Father who accepts his children with their faults when they are disobedient – as long as they repent and want to be reconciled – hence the parable of the Prodigal Son.

By his perfect obedience, his freely offered suffering and death Jesus’ is able to appease the Father’s wrath, and can plead for us continually (Rom 8:34, Heb 7:25, 1Jn 2:1).

Would such intercession be necessary if Jesus had paid the (legal) penalty for our sins?

In the Old Testament animal sacrifices were intended as an offering to atone for sins, not because they paid a penalty for sins but to appease God’s anger.

 

[Addy]

Addy, what Jesus did for us by his Passion, Death and Resurrection is about making satisfaction by a sacrifice not being punished in our stead.

I appreciate that you took the time to answer me... but honestly... I am so deeply GRIEVED by your words about Christ's ATONEMENT that I cannot speak... I apologize.

 

[Mungo]

Let me put it this way. If you committed a driving offence and could not pay the fine, the penalty might be prison (Hell) but if someone paid the fine for you, then as far as the law is concerned you have a clean sheet and your offence has been blotted out. At the same time, the person who paid YOUR fine remains guiltless.
.

The lesson of the Bible is that God forgives sins. Mt 18:23-35 is a good example of this.
Also we read
Mark 1:4 John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Lk 24:47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations

As I said in post #2 but nobody has attempted to respond to the points I made:
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

 

[Cooper]

The lesson of the Bible is that God forgives sins. Mt 18:23-35 is a good example of this.
Also we read
Mark 1:4 John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Lk 24:47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be preached in his name to all nations

As I said in post #2 but nobody has attempted to respond to the points I made:
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22b ESV)

So, it was the shed blood of the perfect man that paid the penalty, so that our sins shall be forgiven.
.

 

[Cooper]

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5KJV)

This “ examination” goes like this: “ No man can say ‘ Jesus is Lord’ Without having the Holy Spirit in Him” ....If you can sincerely say that, you are “ in the Faith” ......That is the Test to prove yourself to be a Christian and not a Reprobate.....sorry if it is not as complicated or demanding as you would like it to be....

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV)

While ever we abide in Christ, and Christ is in us, we are secure.
.

 

[Addy]

Addy, what Jesus did for us by his Passion, Death and Resurrection is about making satisfaction by a sacrifice not being punished in our stead.

I have been trying to digest your words for a few hours now.... and oh my goodness... I simply am not able to comprehend what you have stated... this goes beyond being Catholic... this is blasphemy to the highest degree...

Christ was the perfect sacrifice... His suffering and death indeed APPEASED God... but it did far more than that... It paid in full for our sins. The suffering that Christ endured was because of HIS LOVE for us...

BECAUSE of HIS perfect life... suffering and death... we are able to partake in the banquet that is offered us. He is our kinsmen redeemer if you will but that doesn't even give justice to WHO CHRIST WAS and WHAT HE did for us...

It's no wonder Catholicism teaches all these legalistic observances... if you believe what you have stated... then by golly the seven sacraments don't even begin to address what you would NEED to do to keep yourself saved.... NONE of it would be enough... so suffice to say.... HELL would be the only sufficient destination for anyone who REJECTS the finished work of Christ on the CROSS.

CHRIST BORE THE SINS OF THE WORLD upon HIMSELF so that we might have eternal life if we believe in HIM. No matter how you slice it... THIS is the very essence of Christianity... It is the reason for our HOPE.

I honestly have never felt NAUSEOUS as I do in having read what you have written about CHRIST.

 

[Mungo]

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. (Hebrews 9:22b ESV)

So, it was the shed blood of the perfect man that paid the penalty, so that our sins shall be forgiven.
.

Nobody paid the penalty. Our sins are forgiven.
Forgiveness means we are let off.
If the penalty is paid then there is no need for forgiveness. There is nothing left to forgive.

Don't you understand Jesus' parable in Mt 18:23-35
The servant had a debt he could not pay.
The master forgave him the debt.
No-one stepped in and paid the debt.

Jesus made satisfaction to God by his suffering and death.
Eph 5:2 "And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God".
What Jesus did was a fragrant offering that pleased God and appeased his anger.
Heb 10:12 "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God".
Not when Christ had been punished for our sins

Heb 7:25 "Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them." Why is Christ interceding for us if he has been punished for our sins instead of us?

1John 2:1 "My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous"
Why do we need an advocate if Jesus has paid the penalty for sin and been punished for them?

And to repeat my points that no-one is addressing
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment.

 

[amigo de christo]

Strange.I have-been a Christian for many years now.....not ONCE have I ever been concerned with “ Fruit Inspecting”

I think it’s like this .....Legalists never know the True Joy That accompanies putting one’s Total Faith in Jesus and the FINISHED work of the Cross ......to some degree or other, that all carry the
burden of maintaining some level of Performance, which is where they REALLY put their Faith. This guarantees the absence of any True Joy and Assurance Of Salvation in their lives and as we all know, misery loves company .Inspecting Fruit and Finding pleasure in Judging the Performances Of others is simply how religionists snare others and attack and accuse them—- making sure they don’t escape their sad little worlds of religious self- deception and drudgery . God forbid a man night discover how to live a life “ Free in Christ” and start living the “ Abundant Life” That Jesus spoke of.....

“ Fruit Inspection”, properly understood, is to be used on “ False Prophets” and the “ Words” they use are the Fruit.....words like, “Jesus Saves —- BUT”......Any Words That go beyond “ Nothing But The Blood” for Salvation are examples of “Bad Fruit”.....one can find tons of it in here and in the vast majority if churches any day of the week.......

We examine all my friend , including our own selves .

 

[Mungo]

I have been trying to digest your words for a few hours now.... and oh my goodness... I simply am not able to comprehend what you have stated... this goes beyond being Catholic... this is blasphemy to the highest degree...

Christ was the perfect sacrifice... His suffering and death indeed APPEASED God... but it did far more than that... It paid in full for our sins. The suffering that Christ endured was because of HIS LOVE for us...

BECAUSE of HIS perfect life... suffering and death... we are able to partake in the banquet that is offered us. He is our kinsmen redeemer if you will but that doesn't even give justice to WHO CHRIST WAS and WHAT HE did for us...

It's no wonder Catholicism teaches all these legalistic observances... if you believe what you have stated... then by golly the seven sacraments don't even begin to address what you would NEED to do to keep yourself saved.... NONE of it would be enough... so suffice to say.... HELL would be the only sufficient destination for anyone who REJECTS the finished work of Christ on the CROSS.

CHRIST BORE THE SINS OF THE WORLD upon HIMSELF so that we might have eternal life if we believe in HIM. No matter how you slice it... THIS is the very essence of Christianity... It is the reason for our HOPE.

I honestly have never felt NAUSEOUS as I do in having read what you have written about CHRIST.

Yes Addy,
Christ was the perfect sacrifice... His suffering and death indeed APPEASED God.
The suffering that Christ endured was because of HIS LOVE for us.

But he didn't pay the penalty for our sins. What his perfect sacrifice, his suffering did was to appease God and allow God to forgive our sins. Without his sacrifice and offering to the Father there would be no forgiveness of sins.

Rather than repeat a lot of what I have said please read the post I made to Cooper just above this one.

 

[Addy]

But he didn't pay the penalty for our sins

Then we are ALL GOING TO HELL... GAME over.... I am not interested in hearing any more...
I am not the one who will have to face God with this blasphemy. God have mercy on us...

 

[Mungo]

Then we are ALL GOING TO HELL... GAME over.... I am not interested in hearing any more...
I am not the one who will have to face God with this blasphemy. God have mercy on us...

Not going to Hell Addy because we have been forgiven.

 

[mailmandan]

Tired of the Gospel being turned into a system of law that only drags us down, robs us of joy
and stifles our love for the One who died for us?
Tired of being rerouted back to the law in order to be sanctified or to prove that your faith is genuine?

The Gospel is actually good news and here is why.

1. God has actually concluded all people under sin, whether they be Jew or Gentile, rich poor, black or white etc. (Gal 3:22)

2. Jesus Christ perfectly fulfilled all the requirements for righteousness AND took all our sins upon Himself and took the punishment that those sins fully deserve. (Rom 5:19)

3. through faith, He declares us righteous, (Rom 3:28) robes us in that righteousness, (Gal 3:27), regenerates us as His children (Jn 1:12), and freely grants us the Holy Spirit (Gal 3:2) to strengthen us, enlighten us, convict, comfort and guide us and most of all, direct our hearts into the love of Jesus (Jn 16:7-14), who has granted eternal life as a free gift through faith in Him (Rom 5:15-18).

4. We died to the law that held us that we may live anew to God. (Rom 7:1-4) (Gal 2:19)

Please keep the responses civil and I'll try to do the same.

Amen! The gospel is the “good news” of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To “believe” the gospel is the trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

 

[Addy]

Not going to Hell Addy because we have been forgiven.

Like I said... I can't bring myself to speak to you @Mungo....
Good luck with atoning for your sins... somehow I don't think that will go over very well when everything is said and done.

You can choose to respect the fact that I am truly horrified with your comments and beliefs and still REMAIN the ONLY Catholic I don't have
on ignore... or you can try to pursue this topic with me and get sent there.... Makes no difference to me.

 

[prism]

I questioned one point for which you provided no relevant scripture.
Rome 5:19 "For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous."
That does not address the issue of Jesus being punished for our sins.

My response was a matter of morality and logic. Which parts do you disagree with?
1. The punishment for sin is eternal separation from God – but Jesus is not eternally separated from God.
2. God would be legally punishing an innocent person for the sins of another.
3. If the legal debt has been paid then no-one can be condemned for sin since then God would be taking double payment for the same debt.
4. There is no need for God’s mercy since the debt has been paid. Mercy implies reduction or “letting off” of some or all the debt of punishment


Neither does that say that Jesus was punished in our stead

I suppose you’ll deny this pertains to Jesus…


Isaiah 53:4-5 KJV
[4] Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.