The Gospel of Grace:

[Axehead]

Dave,

This is what I am getting at. He does take us from faith to faith and glory to glory. Yes, He gradually gives us more and more light so that we can surrender more and more, yielding our will to His will. You are right about the Rich Young Ruler, but you have to admit there are some pathetic Evangelistic methods out there and one thing Jesus demonstrates is that you can't decide to follow Him because you think you are "so good". We agree on that.

Axehead



Actually, the Holy Spirit then begins to teach us about our new life in Christ and how to walk in the Spirit. When we are walking in the Spirit (walking in love and preferring others) we are pleasing the Lord. I think you are somehow thinking that myself and others are promoting sinless perfection and we are not.

As far as what the Lord is asking me to do, Dave. It is simple: He is asking me each day to come to Him with my whole heart and to repent of any idols in my heart that He brings to my attention.

Axehead

i agree with what you just stated! but the answer to the problem is not to point back to the law! nor worry myself about that bunch! the thing to do is grow in grace and knowledge and in POWER! and preach the gospel
Paul preached! the ministery of righteousness! and those who believe WILL BE CHANGED BY THE WORD! not this looking back at law!

Believe me, I don't look back at the law. I have had big debates with law keepers (Sabbath, Tithing, etc). I look to Christ and I believe dragonfly and Episkopos do too.

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]As far as what the Lord is asking me to do, Dave. It is simple: He is asking me each day to come to Him with my whole heart and to repent of any idols in my heart that He brings to my attention. But, I am not to get introspective. I am to keep my eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of my faith and He will lead me and guide me and He never leads me into sin. I do a good job of that on my own, but Jesus never leads anyone into sin. He leads us to put to the death the deeds of the flesh (the picture that I posted). [/background]

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Good talking with you. It is getting late here and tomorrow's gathering is in my house and I need to clean the place up a little bit. [/background]

[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Talk to you later,[/background]
[background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Axehead[/background]

 

[brother dave]

this is what i know! those who have seen Him know all we have to do is help others see Him! and if they see and know Him? obedience is not even an issue! living holy is not a hard thing for those who have beheld the Holy One! I KNOW IF THROUGH THE GOSPEL I CAN HELP OTHERS SEE HIM? I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANY SIN ETC... THEY HAVE THE ANSWER TO EVERY PROBLEM!

so to me all this worry about others sins and others duty and obedience? proves that you have not yet seen Him! for if you had you would have laid all doubts about the power of preachng grace! its not a problem!!! and the solution is more grace! not less!

best i can tell those of us hungry for God? cannot get sidetracked by those that are not! we preach His Glory and goodness to all that will hear! and if they hear of Him?some will follow and some will not but my eyes are on Him always!

 

[Axehead]

this is what i know! those who have seen Him know all we have to do is help others see Him! and if they see and know Him? obedience is not even an issue! living holy is not a hard thing for those who have beheld the Holy One! I KNOW IF THROUGH THE GOSPEL I CAN HELP OTHERS SEE HIM? I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ANY SIN ETC... THEY HAVE THE ANSWER TO EVERY PROBLEM!

so to me all this worry about others sins and others duty and obedience? proves that you have not yet seen Him! for if you had you would have laid all doubts about the power of preachng grace! its not a problem!!! and the solution is more grace! not less!

Hey Dave,

Just popped on and read this. What others and myself are talking about obviously has nothing to do with you, Dave. You sound like an Evangelist, but the Church has more than just Evangelists, right? God is calling today and He speaks through His people. He speaks through all the members of His Body. One thing that He is speaking is for the sleeping virgins to wake up. Sleep or slumber in the Bible (as you know) has to do with spiritual darkness. You know Satan sets up strongholds in people's lives through deception and lies, perverting God's Word, and Jesus came to set people free through His Word. He does not want anyone to be surprised and to stand before Him one day bragging about all their works only to hear that He does not know them, because they never took time to know Him.

We are not worried about sin, God is concerned about people and so are we. That proves that we have seen Him.

Thanks for your understanding,
Axehead

 

[brother dave]

Hey Dave,

Just popped on and read this. What others and myself are talking about obviously has nothing to do with you, Dave. You sound like an Evangelist, but the Church has more than just Evangelists, right? God is calling today and He speaks through His people. He speaks through all the members of His Body. One thing that He is speaking is for the sleeping virgins to wake up. Sleep or slumber in the Bible (as you know) has to do with spiritual darkness. You know Satan sets up strongholds in people's lives through deception and lies, perverting God's Word, and Jesus came to set people free through His Word. He does not want anyone to be surprised and to stand before Him one day bragging about all their works only to hear that He does not know them, because they never took time to know Him.

We are not worried about sin, God is concerned about people.

Thanks for your understanding,
Axehead

again! if you are one of His sleeping virgins? then you know that the POWER is in us! and our focus is and should be our own personal growth in Him! not getting our minds set on the weakness of others? but as seeking His Glory! they cannot stop anything! they cannot hinder anything for us! so why all the focus on these issues?

 

[Episkopos]

again! if you are one of His sleeping virgins? then you know that the POWER is in us! and our focus is and should be our own personal growth in Him! not getting our minds set on the weakness of others? but as seeking His Glory! they cannot stop anything! they cannot hinder anything for us! so why all the focus on these issues?

Why should you care if others fall off a cliff as long as you are secure yourself, right? Are we our brother's keepers? Where is the love Dave???

If you don't want to. or else can't see the problem...why do YOU focus on these issues? What's it to you...go preach to harlots and let others do what they do. Why should you condemn yourself for speaking from the wrong place?

Your posts are barely coherent...as if you yourself had issue with some substance or other. It is very immature to stand and freak out over something that you have little understanding to discern.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

Your last post makes it appear that you have not been reading brother dave's testimony, sprinkled liberally through his posts, which mark him out as a true brother. He testifies to a clear conscience, walking in holiness and walking in power - the very things to which you testified, which brought the response from others which we are still discussing.

I also, now, wonder whether you read my post # 235 in this thread? It is Sunday. Satan works overtime on Sundays, if possible, to trip Christians into sin. Please let's not give him the advantage by falling for his devices.



Psa 133:1

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,

Your last post makes it appear that you have not been reading brother dave's testimony, sprinkled liberally through his posts, which mark him out as a true brother. He testifies to a clear conscience, walking in holiness and walking in power - the very things to which you testified, which brought the response from others which we are still discussing.

I also, now, wonder whether you read my post # 235 in this thread? It is Sunday. Satan works overtime on Sundays, if possible, to trip Christians into sin. Please let's not give him the advantage by falling for his devices.



Psa 133:1

Sunday is also a day when marginal Christians open their hearts a tiny bit to hear something that may help them along the pathway to life. What I said is the truth. Does this offend you? I hope not!

Taking up the cause of another can be both good and bad. It is wise to discern the difference. Otherwise we could find ourselves reproving Jesus Himself for calling a brother satan... No one is going that far here....at least I hope not... :)

Blessings in Christ

John

 

[Axehead]

Hi Episkopos,

Your last post makes it appear that you have not been reading brother dave's testimony, sprinkled liberally through his posts, which mark him out as a true brother. He testifies to a clear conscience, walking in holiness and walking in power - the very things to which you testified, which brought the response from others which we are still discussing.

I also, now, wonder whether you read my post # 235 in this thread? It is Sunday. Satan works overtime on Sundays, if possible, to trip Christians into sin. Please let's not give him the advantage by falling for his devices.



Psa 133:1

Hi dragonfly,

I actually thought Episkopos knew what I was talking about when he responded to Dave. My point to Dave was "why mock what others are doing" in what they think God has called them? We don't mock Dave's ministry. When John said

Why should you care if others fall off a cliff as long as you are secure yourself, right? Are we our brother's keepers? Where is the love Dave???

If you don't want to. or else can't see the problem...why do YOU focus on these issues? What's it to you...go preach to harlots and let others do what they do. Why should you condemn yourself for speaking from the wrong place?

I knew he grasped what I was trying to tell Dave as gently as possible.

The condition of the Church today is alarming and people are asleep and that seems to be of no concern to Dave but it is of real concern to the Lord (as we know by the Word and His Spirit and experience all around us). So, that is why Episkopos told Dave "to go and preach to harlots", as that is what Dave says he does. I may not understand someone else's ministry, but I should be careful not to mock what I don't understand.

It is better to find another thread that falls within your own interests than to rattle on about things you don't understand or have little concern for.

For Dave: Sleeping virgins don't wake up other sleeping virgins.

Kindly,
Axehead

 

[Episkopos]

Hi dragonfly,

I actually thought Episkopos knew what I was talking about when he responded to Dave. My point to Dave was "why mock what others are doing" in what they think God has called them? We don't mock Dave's ministry. When John said I knew he grasped what I was trying to tell Dave as gently as possible. [/font][/color]

The condition of the Church today is alarming and people are asleep and that seems to be of no concern to Dave but it is of real concern to the Lord (as we know by the Word and His Spirit and experience all around us). So, that is why Episkopos told Dave "to go and preach to harlots", as that is what Dave says he does. I may not understand someone else's ministry, but I should be careful not to mock what I don't understand.

It is better to find another thread that falls within your own interests than to rattle on about things you don't understand or have little concern for.

For Dave: Sleeping virgins don't wake up other sleeping virgins.

Kindly,
Axehead

Axehead...you are truly my brother!!!

I especially like this...

Sleeping virgins don't wake up other sleeping virgins.

But these do seem to complain about anyone who would disturb their sleep through turning the lights on...

Peace in Christ

John

 

[brother dave]

Hi dragonfly,

I actually thought Episkopos knew what I was talking about when he responded to Dave. My point to Dave was "why mock what others are doing" in what they think God has called them? We don't mock Dave's ministry. When John said I knew he grasped what I was trying to tell Dave as gently as possible. [/font][/color]

The condition of the Church today is alarming and people are asleep and that seems to be of no concern to Dave but it is of real concern to the Lord (as we know by the Word and His Spirit and experience all around us). So, that is why Episkopos told Dave "to go and preach to harlots", as that is what Dave says he does. I may not understand someone else's ministry, but I should be careful not to mock what I don't understand.

It is better to find another thread that falls within your own interests than to rattle on about things you don't understand or have little concern for.

For Dave: Sleeping virgins don't wake up other sleeping virgins.

Kindly,
Axehead

well again! not sure why a virgin as you say is so focused on the sins of other virgins? the Bridegroom has the Power in His words to change all brides!
Son 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Son 1:6 Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
Son 4:7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.
see my young misguided friends the bridgroom is the only one who can make the bride clean! sorry you guys are doing nothing but hindering us who want to look at our bridegroom! like Martha you are busy bodies, worried about much! and cannot see that us Marys are doing that ONE NEEDED THING.

i came on this forum to talk of the beauty of Grace! instead i found a post dedicated to legalism and works! i have decided while i am here to challenge you who in your pride, speak evil of the true way.

and a referance was made of my past? and let me assure you! if you do not have real love and a desire to see the salvation of those harlots and drug-addicts and street people? you do not know HIM? you dont know anything of His compassion and love for all people but especially the weak!

and i am sure i have been forgiven much! and that i need him much more than any of you!

 

[Axehead]

Axehead...you are truly my brother!!!

I especially like this...

Sleeping virgins don't wake up other sleeping virgins.

But these do seem to complain about anyone who would disturb their sleep through turning the lights on...

Peace in Christ

John

 

[Episkopos]

well again! not sure why a virgin as you say is so focused on the sins of other virgins? the Bridegroom has the Power in His words to change all brides!
Son 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Son 1:6 Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.
Son 4:7 Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee.
see my young misguided friends the bridgroom is the only one who can make the bride clean! sorry you guys are doing nothing but hindering us who want to look at our bridegroom! like Martha you are busy bodies, worried about much! and cannot see that us Marys are doing that ONE NEEDED THING.

i came on this forum to talk of the beauty of Grace! instead i found a post dedicated to legalism and works! i have decided while i am here to challenge you who in your pride, speak evil of the true way.

and a referance was made of my past? and let me assure you! if you do not have real love and a desire to see the salvation of those harlots and drug-addicts and street people? you do not know HIM? you dont know anything of His compassion and love for all people but especially the weak!

and i am sure i have been forgiven much! and that i need him much more than any of you!

OK You have hyjacked this thread through an emotional mugging of the contributers here. Why not start a thread called "Brother Dave and his mission to the lost" ?? I could start it for you if you like.

When a person needs to make any given subject about themselves then an intervention of some sort is required. Are there any moderators watching this thread???

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Axehead,

I accept the explanation you've given, which is certainly clearer now than it was before! :)

You know I'm a bit slow on the uptake at times... :mellow:

I just would like more of the background thinking which prompts oblique allusions to unstated aims, to be written into post, so they are more tempered with explanation. But maybe I've been missing some of what's actually there. I don't think we realise the assumptions we're running with - and then, too, maybe I just have to accept this rough and tumble is how some people get to know each other.

 

[Episkopos]

Brother Dave:
I started a thread called...
"The mission to the Lost"


Please come over and share some of your own experiences...

 

[brother dave]

OK You have hyjacked this thread through an emotional mugging of the contributers here. Why not start a thread called "Brother Dave and his mission to the lost" ?? I could start it for you if you like.

When a person needs to make any given subject about themselves then an intervention of some sort is required. Are there any moderators watching this thread???

this thread is about grace! if you did not know why grace was given to man it was from a simple emotional thing called Gods love! for God so loved the world that He gave us His Son. full of grace and truth! and grace for grace sake! maybe thats why its so hard for you to understand? its all based upon love! being rooted and grounded in LOVE you may understand! you lack something that others have? His love for YOU!

 

[Episkopos]

this thread is about grace! if you did not know why grace was given to man it was from a simple emotional thing called Gods love! for God so loved the world that He gave us His Son. full of grace and truth! and grace for grace sake! maybe thats why its so hard for you to understand? its all based upon love! being rooted and grounded in LOVE you may understand! you lack something that others have? His love for YOU!

This thread is about a false gospel being peddled under the name "the gospel of grace". Do you believe everything you read???? If we put a sign on a building that has the word "church" written on it....does that turn a building into a church???

 

[brother dave]

This thread is about a false gospel being peddled under the name "the gospel of grace". Do you believe everything you read???? If we put a sign on a building that has the word "church" written on it....does that turn a building into a church???

no i went back and looked and the man who started this thread, intended it to be what i am defending!

 

[Episkopos]

no i went back and looked and the man who started this thread, intended it to be what i am defending!

The new thread is called... "The mission to the Lost"

Some people (and I was once among them) concentrate on reaching the lost outside of the church. But now I concentrate on reaching the lost within th church. Really the church is not much different from the world..since the false gospel has opened the doors to every sort of fallen character...all in the name of "the gospel of grace".

So while you seek out the harlots without...I seek to awaken the harlots within.

 

[Axehead]

this thread is about grace! if you did not know why grace was given to man it was from a simple emotional thing called Gods love! for God so loved the world that He gave us His Son. full of grace and truth! and grace for grace sake! maybe thats why its so hard for you to understand? its all based upon love! being rooted and grounded in LOVE you may understand! you lack something that others have? His love for YOU!

Dave, you might want to read more than just the beginning.

Axehead

 

[brother dave]

you are in over your head young man! we know what believe because we live it every day! you niether know what you are saying nor do you live anything of what you speak of! the Gospel of Grace will not be moved by you or any other kid with a labtop!

Dave, you might want to read more than just the beginning.

Axehead

no i seen the garden! and dont have to look to know that at some point the serpent came in and said "DID GOD REALLY SAY"?
NO He said it ! and its true! i am saved by grace! i am forever righteous and forever i belong in His garden!