The Gospel of Grace:

[RichardBurger]

The Gospel of Grace: --- All scriptures from the NKJV
*
After studying the Scriptures for over 60 years and writing many articles contradicting the writings of those that place their faith in their religions and religious practices, I have concluded that most will not believe what I write here. However, I am going to write what I believe to be the true Gospel of God’s grace based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
*
The true Gospel of Grace is that God has now concluded ALL men are hopelessly lost and are continually sinful in the flesh. Since that is true, based on the law, then God is totally fair in offering salvation based on the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. These are betting their eternal life on the work of God and are made children of God in Christ.
*
It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the “social/moral gospel” taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will not relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they “do for God“, not on what God has done for them.
*
The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves.
*
2 Cor 1:20-22
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
*
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:
*
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
*
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
*
2 Tim 1:8-12
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
*
1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
*
1 Cor 15:56-58
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
*
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
*
All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I, personally, believe them to be hopelessly lost.

 

[Episkopos]

Placing bets and then convincing yourself you are right about that bet is not about faith at all.

"Depart from Me because you never placed your bet on Me??? """"

This notion of "someday my prince will come to save me" denies the present reality of the kingdom of God whereby we can walk in newness of life...NOW. So rather than a make believe fairy tale salvation...seek the Lord in reality and repent from the dead works that you claim to not be responsible for (as per the gnostic notion of a saving knowledge that has no power over the flesh). Stop daydreaming and awake to the truth and Christ will give you light. We will ALL be judged on what we have done. It is unbelief that stops you from seeing the truth.

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Butch5]

The Gospel of Grace: --- All scriptures from the NKJV
*
After studying the Scriptures for over 60 years and writing many articles contradicting the writings of those that place their faith in their religions and religious practices, I have concluded that most will not believe what I write here. However, I am going to write what I believe to be the true Gospel of God’s grace based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
*
The true Gospel of Grace is that God has now concluded ALL men are hopelessly lost and are continually sinful in the flesh. Since that is true, based on the law, then God is totally fair in offering salvation based on the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. These are betting their eternal life on the work of God and are made children of God in Christ.
*
It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the “social/moral gospel” taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will not relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they “do for God“, not on what God has done for them.
*
The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves.
*
2 Cor 1:20-22
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
*
Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:
*
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
*
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
*
2 Tim 1:8-12
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
*
1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
*
1 Cor 15:56-58
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
*
1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
*
All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I, personally, believe them to be hopelessly lost.

Richard,

Can you show me where Scripture teaches this?

place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross

 

[Episkopos]

Mr. Burger is expressing a position that many at least partially agree with. He has taken the ideas to their logical conclusion. Many have not yet done this since they haven't thought it out completely yet.

This idea of a gospel of grace in contra-distinction to the gospel of Christ and the kingdom ....is based on the mystery of lawlessness that is at work in the world to destroy the plan of God. The people threw their support for Barabbas in order to distance themselves from the true Messiah and His way of suffering. The flesh chooses Barabbas.

The general amnesty for sin scheme is actually of a false Jesus...Jesus Barabbas. That Jesus got off scott free for his crimes in a general amnesty...as opposed to the true Messiah who was sacrificed for the sake of the truth.

So those who seek to add an amnesty for sins to their present lives are of Jesus Barabbas...not Jesus Christ. We see this same parallel on Yom Kippour. There are two identical looking goats. One is sacrificed...the other has the sins of the people laid on it and then sent off into the wilderness. So it is with us who either die in Christ so as to be raised as a new creation or else we just seek to be justified by our belief in an easy lack of responsibility for our sins.

True grace empowers us to become real sons of God. The false gospel which is presumptuously called "the gospel of grace" is according to the mystery of lawlessness which arises very powerfully in these latter days. 2 Thess. 2

 

[RichardBurger]

Richard,

Can you show me where Scripture teaches this?

You are so foolish if you do not know that the words belief, faith, trust, confidence mean the same thing and that it is our faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV ----- the words faith and belief mean the same thing. I use all of the words so that the unlearned can get the message.

It doesn't say our works. I don't know about you, but as for me my faith is in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross; His shed blood that the scriptures tell me reconcile me to God. Do you believe you are reconciled to God by the shed blood? The scriptures also say I am accounted as righteous before God because of My faith in God (Jesus). Do you know you have been declared righteous before God by believing in His work on the cross?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

Your OP is very good as long as you also include 1 Peter 1:6, 7 and 1 Peter 4:1 - 6, and, 2 Peter 1:3, 4.

if the last two passages are not your experience, again I ask, why do you believe you've been saved if you have not yet escaped the corruption that is the world through lust?

Or, if you have escaped, why do you keep stating that the flesh cannot stop sinning, when not only Peter but Paul and John teach unequivocally that it can, Paul going so far as to say it is already capable of experiencing a degree of resurrection - Romans 8:11?

 

[RichardBurger]

Placing bets and then convincing yourself you are right about that bet is not about faith at all.

"Depart from Me because you never placed your bet on Me??? """"

I have stated what I believe. You can believe as you wish.

Hi Richard,

Your OP is very good as long as you also include 1 Peter 1:6, 7 and 1 Peter 4:1 - 6, and, 2 Peter 1:3, 4.

if the last two passages are not your experience, again I ask, why do you believe you've been saved if you have not yet escaped the corruption that is the world through lust?

Or, if you have escaped, why do you keep stating that the flesh cannot stop sinning, when not only Peter but Paul and John teach unequivocally that it can, Paul going so far as to say it is already capable of experiencing a degree of resurrection - Romans 8:11?

My OP is complete as stated. You can add works if you wish by I will not lay burdens on others that I can not carry myself. I am not like most on this forum who are self-righteous and claim they no longer sin in the flesh.

I have escaped the corruption in the world by my faith in the one that has saved me, Jesus.

Why!!!!!???? I have been explaining why to you and you can't hear it. I am saved by faith in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross. I believe the scriptures that say I am saved by the blood. ---- In other words I have faith in God but you can't see it.

How about this one? 1 John 1:7-8
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NKJV

Jesus is the light and I walk in faith in what He did on the cross, His shed blood, to save me. What do you walk in?

 

[Butch5]

You are so foolish if you do not know that the words belief, faith, trust, confidence mean the same thing and that it is our faith that overcomes the world.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
NKJV ----- the words faith and belief mean the same thing. I use all of the words so that the unlearned can get the message.

It doesn't say our works. I don't know about you, but as for me my faith is in the work of God (Jesus) on the cross; His shed blood that the scriptures tell me reconcile me to God. Do you believe you are reconciled to God by the shed blood? The scriptures also say I am accounted as righteous before God because of My faith in God (Jesus). Do you know you have been declared righteous before God by believing in His work on the cross?

Hi Richard,

You didn't answer my question. I wanted to know where the Scrpitures teach this.

place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross

Where do the Scriptures teach that one is to believe in the work of the cross?

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

You didn't answer my question. I wanted to know where the Scrpitures teach this.

Where do the Scriptures teach that one is to believe in the work of the cross?

Hebrews 9:19-22
19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,
20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."
21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry.
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV

"without shedding of blood there is no remission." --- You had better place your faith in His shed blood because if you do not, you have no remission of your sins.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

I also believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross, and because of being baotised into His death, I now walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4), bringing forth fruit to God through obedience to righteousness (Romans 6:16). And I walk in the light as He is in the light. What I don't yet understand within your testimony, is the bondage to sin you describe, insisting that Paul's testimony in Romans 8, of being made free from the law of sin and death overrides his freedom from it through the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

What this would mean if it is true, is that Christ is not raised from the dead. According to you, the law of sin and death still reigns. But that was not Paul's testimony - nor Peter's, nor John's, nor Jesus'. And it isn't mine. I KNOW Jesus is alive. I'm not just hoping that He is.

Am I still misunderstanding your gospel?

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

I also believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross, and because of being baotised into His death, I now walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4), bringing forth fruit to God through obedience to righteousness (Romans 6:16). And I walk in the light as He is in the light. What I don't yet understand within your testimony, is the bondage to sin you describe, insisting that Paul's testimony in Romans 8, of being made free from the law of sin and death overrides his freedom from it through the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

What this would mean if it is true, is that Christ is not raised from the dead. According to you, the law of sin and death still reigns. But that was not Paul's testimony - nor Peter's, nor John's, nor Jesus'. And it isn't mine. I KNOW Jesus is alive. I'm not just hoping that He is.

Am I still misunderstanding your gospel?

I have posted this before and most can't see it.

Romans 7:23-25
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

This verse PLAINLY says our bodies are bodies of death and we need to be saved from it, not change it.

25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Jesus has delivered me from this body of death by placing my spirit into the body of Christ. Not by making my flesh perfect and sinless.

Paul never says that his body DOES NOT follow the law of sin. Only men say that.

But it seems that many will not see it. They cling to the idea that they can make their sinful flesh perfect and clear of sin. They search the scriptures to prove that Paul did not really mean what he said.

But why am I still here? No one seems to want to hear what I write. Perhaps God will tell me to go elsewhere.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

As I unerstand the assertion in your last post, you disagree with Paul's claim in Romans 6:11 - 22, despite that his relationship with Christ enabled him, through the Soirit of grace, to cease from a life of blasphemy and violence.

Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

As I unerstand the assertion in your last post, you disagree with Paul's claim in Romans 6:11 - 22, despite that his relationship with Christ enabled him, through the Soirit of grace, to cease from a life of blasphemy and violence.

Am I understanding this correctly?

There is nothing in Romans 6 that say we are SAVED by not sinning. Nor is there anything there that says we are without sin in the flesh.

Hi Richard,

Where do the Scriptures teach that one is to believe in the work of the cross?

Ephesians 2:13
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
NKJV

Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
NKJV

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
NKJV

We are to believe, have faith, trust and confidence in the precious blood of Jesus. If you have not placed your faith in the work of God on the cross you are not saved.

 

[williemac]

Placing bets and then convincing yourself you are right about that bet is not about faith at all.

"Depart from Me because you never placed your bet on Me??? """"

This notion of "someday my prince will come to save me" denies the present reality of the kingdom of God whereby we can walk in newness of life...NOW. So rather than a make believe fairy tale salvation...seek the Lord in reality and repent from the dead works that you claim to not be responsible for (as per the gnostic notion of a saving knowledge that has no power over the flesh). Stop daydreaming and awake to the truth and Christ will give you light. We will ALL be judged on what we have done. It is unbelief that stops you from seeing the truth.

2Ti_4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The dead works are works of the law, my friend. Hear the words of Jesus in John 5:24..." Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me HAS everlasting life and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life".

Where is the fable here? Where do we pass from life into judgment? If you refer to the judgment seat of Christ, then fine. But that judgment seat is not for the purpose of determining one's eternal life. It is reserved for those who already have eternal life, and is merely for the giving or removing of rewards.

No one is disputing the power of the new birth and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to enable us to walk in the Spirit in this life. The dispute is in the area of what this can or cannot do in regards to eternal life. If one is walking with more fruit, better fruit, more victory than another, who has the gall to say that this person will be rewarded with eternal life and the other will not?

if you are depending on your victory walk to earn you your salvation, then I fear for you. You cannot bear that yoke, and you have no business placing that yoke upon your brothers in the Lord. It flies in the face of new covenant related scripture. Saved by grace does not mean that this is conditional to how well one walks in Christ after the gift of life is given. Love is the fulfillment of the law. The real issue is just how much love one is demonstrating towards others. How well are you doing in that regard? Of course that is between you and the Lord, just as it also is with those whom you accuse. And I thought the accuser of the bretheren was silenced. Silly me.

 

[Episkopos]

The dead works are works of the law, my friend. Hear the words of Jesus in John 5:24..." Most assuredly I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me HAS everlasting life and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT, but has passed from death into life".

Where is the fable here? Where do we pass from life into judgment? If you refer to the judgment seat of Christ, then fine. But that judgment seat is not for the purpose of determining one's eternal life. It is reserved for those who already have eternal life, and is merely for the giving or removing of rewards.

No one is disputing the power of the new birth and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to enable us to walk in the Spirit in this life. The dispute is in the area of what this can or cannot do in regards to eternal life. If one is walking with more fruit, better fruit, more victory than another, who has the gall to say that this person will be rewarded with eternal life and the other will not?

if you are depending on your victory walk to earn you your salvation, then I fear for you. You cannot bear that yoke, and you have no business placing that yoke upon your brothers in the Lord. It flies in the face of new covenant related scripture. Saved by grace does not mean that this is conditional to how well one walks in Christ after the gift of life is given. Love is the fulfillment of the law. The real issue is just how much love one is demonstrating towards others. How well are you doing in that regard? Of course that is between you and the Lord, just as it also is with those whom you accuse. And I thought the accuser of the bretheren was silenced. Silly me.

Again...taking one verse and ignoring the others that bring the full picture is to do one of 2 things

1. enjoying a game of see-saw

2. Creating a man made doctrine that is not based in the truth.

I try to assume that those who venture into these debates realize that there is a whole bible and that there are adherents to various fringe doctrines that are easily refutable by verses that have been omitted in order to create the idea that there is truth to the polarized view. Anybody can quote a verse that refutes another verse. The crux is to understand the scriptures and place them in the approprite way.

Grandstanding on a verse like...

Whoever sins is the servant of the devil....one can then continually ask...do you sin? Do you sin? then you are of the devil...then you are of the devil!!

We can program computers to argue these type of things...over and over again. But where is the life in this?

Of course there is truth to any given position. But it is not the entire truth.

 

[ttruscott]

...
All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I, personally, believe them to be hopelessly lost.

I must agree, such folk as you describe have the hidden mark of Cain which only the angels can see which allows the true church to live with them and learn the lessons they have to teach until the sinful church (the wheat) is matured in holiness and the angels can gather these tares to be burned, Matt. 13.

Peace, Ted

 

[Butch5]

There is nothing in Romans 6 that say we are SAVED by not sinning. Nor is there anything there that says we are without sin in the flesh.



Ephesians 2:13
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
NKJV

Hebrews 9:14
14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
NKJV

1 Peter 1:18-19
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
NKJV

We are to believe, have faith, trust and confidence in the precious blood of Jesus. If you have not placed your faith in the work of God on the cross you are not saved.

Those are statements, where do they or Scripoture say that's what one must believe to be saved?

 

[Episkopos]

No righteous person in the bible ever justified himself because of what he believed or did. Only the Pharisees and modern Christians do this.

A truly righteous person does not seek an advantage or claim anything for himself but his own failure. THAT is what it means to be righteous if one still sins. So unless one has a greater righteousness than the Pharisees (who also sinned) then one cannot enter into life. The Pharisees claimed to be saved IN their sinful state.

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Did Abraham declare himself as righteous because He believed God?

 

[neophyte]

Jesus said it is not enough to have faith in Him; we also must obey His commandments. "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord.' but do not do the things I command?" [ Luke 6:46, Matt. 7:21-23, 19:16-21 ]
We do not We do not "earn" our salvation through good works [ Eph. 2:8-9, Rom. 9:16 ], but our faith in Christ puts us in a special grace- filled relationship with God so that our obedience and love, combined with our faith, will be rewarded with eternal life [ Rom. 2:7, Gal 6:8-9 ].
St.Paul said, "God is the one who , for His good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work"[ Phil. 2:13 ]. St.John explained that "the way we may be sure that we know him is to keep his commandments. Whoever says, "I know him,' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him" [ 1 John 2:3-4, 3:19-24, 5:3-4 ] Since no gift can be forced on the recipient- gifts always can be rejected- even after we become justified, we can throw away the gift of salvation. We throw it away through grave [ mortal ] sin [ John 15:5-6, Rom. 11:22-23, 1 Cor. 15:1-2 ] Paul tells us, "The wages of sin is death ' [Rom.6:23 ]
Read his letters and see how often St.Paul warned Christians against sin! He would not have felt compelled to do so if their sins could not exclude them from heaven[ see, for example, 1 Cor. 6: 9-10, Gal. 5: 19-21 ] Paul reminded the Christians in Rome that God" will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life for those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness" [ Rom. 2:6-8 ].
Sins are nothing but evil works. We can avoid sins by habitually performing good works. Every saint has known the best way to keep from sins is to embrace regular prayer, the sacraments [ the Eucharist first of all ], and charitable acts. From the Teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[dragonfly]

Hello all,

Again, apologies for the slightly quaint spelling turned out by my cell phone earlier today!

Normal service is resumed.


Hello neophyte,

I'm with the scriptures and exhortations you posted. Amen!



Hi Richard,

The reason I'm questioning closely, is that your gospel stops quite a way short of the apostles'.


How can you say that the verses missing from your definition of the gospel of grace are not needed, when they are there in the Bible for all to read, describing the outworking of life in Christ Jesus - where you say your spirit is residing - that is, the Christian life?


You keep telling me that I can't 'see' what you're saying, but I can see it clear as day!

You are denying any verses in scripture which you claim are unnecessary to 'salvation'.

But I am not really trying to discuss whether you are 'saved' or not. I'm trying to find out whether your claim to be saved, has changed you in any tangible way which could be observed (like it was in the apostles' lives) - apart for your assertion that inwardly, your belief, trust, faith, confidence and hope are in 'the finished work of Christ'.



Then you say: 'Paul never says that his body DOES NOT follow the law of sin.'

But my Bible says this:

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him],
that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed to sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members instruments of unrighteousness to sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, ​

as those that are alive from the dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God.


Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey,

his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, or

of obedience unto righteousness?


17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.



'Paul never says that his body DOES NOT follow the law of sin.'


Are you sure?



The purpose of salvation in this life, is to restore to us a foretaste of liberty from sin and death better than that which Adam lost.


Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus

has made me free from the law of sin and death.


3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us,

who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.




'There is nothing in Romans 6 that say we are SAVED by not sinning.'


But there is something which says we are not saved if we continue in sin.

1 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:14; 2 Thessalonians 2:10; Galatians 5:21;

1 John 3:7; Extract from 1 John 3:10 '... whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God...'



'Nor is there anything there that says we are without sin in the flesh.'

Yes there is: He that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7)


2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels,
that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.


Richard, it's a choice we make. Matthew 16:24; Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23.



I was astonished in the other thread, that you said you don't accept the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself,
because they were made under the Old Covenant era?


What?


I know you're serious, but, if you're not following the teachings of Jesus Christ per se, why call yourself a Christian?

I'm just asking an obvious question, as you seem to have reduced the gospel to verses you are comfortable with, and you seem to resist being constrained by many important ones.

This is the impression you give, whether intended or not.



And, this leads to one last question:

how do you answer Paul's direction to Timothy at the end of his first epistle to him?

1 Timothy 6: '... These things teach and exhort.

3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words -
the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth...'