I agree it could be me and even asked you to show me why but you did not help me to understand>
The Gospel!! What is it?
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If we truly search for the truth in what Paul is teaching in Acts 19:1-6 we then can fins out which is the one baptism of Ephesians 4
OK do you believe that Paul is saying in Acts 19 that it is the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ that the spirit is given. It is either clear or muddied what say you.
l ready have done that but I will copy and paste here again
You really missed the main point because of your view. Let us look at this again.
Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed / We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. They have not heard the now completed gospel of the cross only of that of John pointing to the cross
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? if they were believers then they would have been baptized in the name of Christ Acts 2:38 but they had not heard of the cross only Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. See what baptism we are baptized into does matter. We are to be baptized into the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with and it is according to Paul the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38 which is the one that gives the spirit.
When they heard the complete gospel they believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38
Now when Paul had taken care of their salvation he laid hands on them to give them the gifts to grow the church he just established through the word of God.
Verse 6 was not to give the spirit that was done according to Paul in the baptism in Christ name. I was not the spirit coming upon them as it was with the Apostles and Cornelius but by the laying on of hands so that is not the way some teach the baptism of the holy ghost they do not compare as scripture makes it clear. What some call the baptism of the holy ghost where the spirit supernaturally came on a few without any help from man is not what happened here. We have to read scripture for what is said not through our preconceived ideals.
You really missed the main point because of your view. Let us look at this again.
Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed / We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. They have not heard the now completed gospel of the cross only of that of John pointing to the cross
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? if they were believers then they would have been baptized in the name of Christ Acts 2:38 but they had not heard of the cross only Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. See what baptism we are baptized into does matter. We are to be baptized into the baptism that Jesus was to baptize with and it is according to Paul the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38 which is the one that gives the spirit.
When they heard the complete gospel they believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ Acts 2:38
Now when Paul had taken care of their salvation he laid hands on them to give them the gifts to grow the church he just established through the word of God.
Verse 6 was not to give the spirit that was done according to Paul in the baptism in Christ name. I was not the spirit coming upon them as it was with the Apostles and Cornelius but by the laying on of hands so that is not the way some teach the baptism of the holy ghost they do not compare as scripture makes it clear. What some call the baptism of the holy ghost where the spirit supernaturally came on a few without any help from man is not what happened here. We have to read scripture for what is said not through our preconceived ideals.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Please Please tell me why you want to boast in saving yourself by allowing a man to baptize you in water
Paul has never said we must be baptized to be saved. He was we are saved by grace THROUGH faith, and not work
He also said it is not by works of righteousness which we have done (water baptism would be a good work) but by his mercy, he saved us..
You still haven't told me why Paul said that the spirit is given through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ in Act 19 still waiting to hear why he did not mean what he said there . I believe in all that Paul said even what he was teaching in Acts 19.
I am not boasting in what I have done but what God has done in me Romans 6:3ff
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 3:
. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
No baptism
John 4:
10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
11 The woman said to Him, “Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water? 12 Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
No baptism
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
No baptism
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes [j]in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”
Again, no mention of baptism
Why would Jesus not say baptism. and why would Paul contradict Jesus?
Paul did not. They recieved the HS after paul laid hands on them. one of the many things in the early church used as a sigmn that God was in it.
If your not baptized in God by God. YTour still dead in your sin
its bad enough you do not believe jesus when he said you would never die and have eternal life.. Now you want to replace his work with the work of men
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You still have not told me why you boast in saving yourself by some man baptizing you in water
In acts 19. they received the spirit when Paul laid his hands on them, not when they got baptized in water..
John 3 pointing to the cross
John 4 talking of the indwelling spirit that was to come after the cross and as Paul says in Acts 19 was given through the baptism in Christ name
John 5 to believe included all the teaching as Paul showed by his statement in Acts 19 where they accredited believing to have been baptized
John 6 again talking about the indwelling which again Paul says happens through the baptism in Christ name
live
Again Paul makes it clear that if you are credited as a believer you have also believed in the teaching of baptism as seen in Acts 19
You keep saying again no mention of baptism but there is not mention of repentance or confession either so do you discredit the numerous scripture that do speak to those?
Jesus did teach baptism not in every verse but he did discuss it and that would still be valid even if it was not in every verse one verse does not nullify another just because it is not mentioned every time.
That is n ot what the scriptures say> The scriptures no me but the scriptures say that Paul was addressing the giving of the indwelling spirit and according to Paul it was through the baptism in Christ name not the baptism of John but in Christ name that is the context of that passage. Paul laid hands on to transfer the power of witnessing which was not the indwelling according to Paul the indwelling came first when he had them baptized in Christ name.We have to read scripture as they are written not to read our preconceived ideal into scripture to make it fit out view.
No that is what you are doing is taking Gods word and twisting it to fit your view and I have proven that fact with the passages in Acts 19 alone.
See you are blinded by you doctrine that is not what is said in Acts 19 and I can not get you to see only you can study and find the truth and if you are content in your understanding and not answering my question and calling Paul mistaken then you are on you own to deal with this for your heart is hardened to the truth scripture is giving.
Amen!!.
As God’s word says...
And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying” (Acts 19:5-6).
Water baptism doesn’t save....only the Holy Spirit can save.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You have added baptism to everyone of those passages.
How dare you!
If baptism was required, he would have said it in John 3, He who believes and is baptized is nto condemned, He who does not believe or who believes, yet does not get baptized is condemned already
in john 4, he would have said, if you would have asked me and gotten baptized out of y9our heart will flow rivers of living water flowing to eternal life
In john 5, he would have said "he who hears my word and believes in what I said and goes out and gets baptised may have everlasting life. and may not come into Judgment
In john 6.... You get the epicture
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
See, You can not give an honest answer.
I already discussed acts 19 twice. yet you continue to deny it
Again, go ahead. Boast in your saving yourself. I will boast in God.. The mere fact you can not even respond to this, shows your hard heart
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Nor will you, since we don't pit Scripture against Scripture.
Can we follow through on Ezekiel's prophecy for a bit?
Ezekiel 36:22-28 KJV
22) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
23) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
I've bolded 3 places in this passage. 1, this is addressed to "the house of Israel". 2, that God will gather them from the heathen lands to which they had been scattered, to return them to their own land, that had been given to their fathers. 3, that God would put His Spirit into them, which will cause them to keep all of God's statutes and judgments.
If this prophecy is to be fulfilled, then we will see the ethnic group of Jews, Israel, reborn, all of them, returned to their land, all of them, and in complete obedience to God's statutes and judgment, which I suggest refers to the requirements of God's covenant with Israel at Sinai.
Ezekiel 39:25-29 KJV
25) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26) After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27) When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28) Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29) Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Isaiah 59:20-21 KJV
20) And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21) As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
There are many passages like this, but these are a few of my favorites. I think this is plainly establishing that the time will come when ethnic Israel is regathered, in faith and obedience, receiving the blessings of their covenant with God made at Sinai.
Acts 3:18-21 KJV
18) But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Had Israel received Jesus, on a national level, Jesus would have returned, and the kingdom established. All the nations would then come to Israel to know God.
Matthew 28:18-20 KJV
18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Isaiah 60:1-5 KJV
1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.
5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
This will be fulfilled in the kingdom that is coming when Jesus returns. Had they received Jesus, it would have been fulfilled then.
The matter was not settled at first. After Jesus died, rose, and ascended, there was a period of time when they could have received Jesus, and received their kingdom.
And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
But that time ended with their continued rejection.
Acts 28:25-28 KJV
25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
What began with the Jews,
Matthew 28:19 KJV
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mark 16:16 KJV
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
. . . was sent to the Gentiles.
Romans 10:9-11 KJV
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Ephesians 3:17 KJV
That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Ephesians 4:5 KJV
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Romans 6:3-5 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
1 Corinthians 1:17-18 KJV
17) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:22-23 KJV
22) For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23) But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
I hope you've had patience to get this far!
Much love!
He did you just don't follow his teaching he said that in Mark 16:16
just before he returned to Gods side
Again you don't see what it is pointing to. It is talking about the indwelling spirit that was to be given but not until after his death burial and resurrection. Which is given in the baptism in the name of Christ Acts 2:38 and 19:1-5
[ quote ] In john 5, he would have said "he who hears my word and believes in what I said and goes out and gets baptised may have everlasting life. and may not come into Judgment [/quote] and again he did Mark 16:16
Harmonize all these together and see what it says
I have responded over and over you just do not have ears to hear I gave you scripture to prove that the spirit is given through the baptism in Christ name but you refuse to believe Paul and try to make him say it is by laying on of hands that is by man not by spirit. You are trying to make it say what it does not say and until you get the facts right you will never be able to see the truth.
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