The Gospel

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CoreIssue

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None seek after God; therefore: 'By grace are ye saved through faith' (Ephesians 2.8).

The Bible does not say none seek after God. It says quite the opposite.

Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

What Does the Bible Say About Seeking God?
79 verses in total
Deuteronomy 4:29 ESV / 895 helpful votes
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Proverbs 8:17 ESV / 828 helpful votes
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Matthew 6:33 ESV / 709 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

1 Chronicles 16:11 ESV / 699 helpful votes
Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Jeremiah 29:12-14 ESV / 669 helpful votes
Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.
 
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farouk

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The Bible does not say none seek after God. It says quite the opposite.

Ephesians 2:8 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

What Does the Bible Say About Seeking God?
79 verses in total
Deuteronomy 4:29 ESV / 895 helpful votes
But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Proverbs 8:17 ESV / 828 helpful votes
I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.

Matthew 6:33 ESV / 709 helpful votes
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

1 Chronicles 16:11 ESV / 699 helpful votes
Seek the Lord and his strength; seek his presence continually!

Jeremiah 29:12-14 ESV / 669 helpful votes
Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.
The Lord searches the hearts and knows who seek and who do not (Isaiah 55).
 
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Dave L

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Hello @Dave L,

You have obviously not read my posts with any degree of attention, if you can assert these things of me.

I leave you in God's hands.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
This is how free will guts the gospel and God's grace.
 

Phoneman777

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1 Cor 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
NKJV

That Christ died FOR OUR SINS.

It is not what man does. It is all about what Christ did. He died to pay for the sins of ALL MANKIND. The gospel is simple. It is not what man does to save him/her self. It is ALL about what Jesus (GOD) did on the cross.

But like the Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King, if a person does not believe (have faith in) that Jesus has paid for their sins then that person can not claim what He did on the cross for them. They, like the Jews, reject His work on the cross and wish to substitute their own works. Just as Cain did.
"...and thou shalt call His name Jesus: for He will save His people "from" (not "in") their sins."
 
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H. Richard

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"...and thou shalt call His name Jesus: for He will save His people "from" (not "in") their sins."

A play on words.

He saves people from the condemnation of their sins of the flesh. You, like others, only want to glory in your works of trying not to sin and trying to proclaim yourself as righteous in your flesh. But no one can keep the laws of God.

That is why Jesus has made a way to save the ungodly. His work on the cross saves sinners. It does not make anyone sinless in the flesh.

Rom 4:5-6
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him """who justifies the ungodly""", his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
NKJV

It does not say he makes the flesh sinless.

Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

If a person could be justified by his/her works then they do not need Jesus' work on the cross and that takes away the glory of God's Son, Jesus Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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A play on words.

He saves people from the condemnation of their sins of the flesh. You, like others, only want to glory in your works of trying not to sin and trying to proclaim yourself as righteous in your flesh. But no one can keep the laws of God.

That is why Jesus has made a way to save the ungodly. His work on the cross saves sinners. It does not make anyone sinless in the flesh.

Rom 4:5-6
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him """who justifies the ungodly""", his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
NKJV

It does not say he makes the flesh sinless.

Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

If a person could be justified by his/her works then they do not need Jesus' work on the cross and that takes away the glory of God's Son, Jesus Christ.
A person is most certainly not justified by their works but through faith alone in what Christ has done for them; however, I believe that when a person places their trust wholly in the Cross, that sin will be dealt with in their lives in the practical sense.

It is not that having their sin dealt with justifies them; but that, being justified, and trusting wholly in the shed blood of Christ, the practical outworking of this is an abstention from sinning in the practical sense.

1 John 3:5-9 shows that the one who is born of God cannot sin. John may there be using hyperbole in order to say that there will be a very real change in the heart, character, and behaviour of all those who are born again. Their direction has changed from being towards death, hell, and sin to being towards life, heaven, and righteousness.

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

 
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justbyfaith

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1Pe 1:22, Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Mat 5:8, Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Act 15:8, And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9, And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
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.
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Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
 

Phoneman777

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A play on words.

He saves people from the condemnation of their sins of the flesh. You, like others, only want to glory in your works of trying not to sin and trying to proclaim yourself as righteous in your flesh.
Ahhhhh, so what you really want is a Savior that makes murder, theft, lying, child rape, porn watching, etc. "non-punishable offenses"...

Nothing like those of us who strive against sin by God's grace getting a lecture about works from people who claim to be "more than conquerors" but get their butts kicked decidedly everytime the devil dangles a little temptation before them. LOL
 

mjrhealth

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Ahhhhh, so what you really want is a Savior that makes murder, theft, lying, child rape, porn watching, etc. "non-punishable offenses"...

Nothing like those of us who strive against sin by God's grace getting a lecture about works from people who claim to be "more than conquerors" but get their butts kicked decidedly every time the devil dangles a little temptation before them. LOL
Yes but you are already dead, in your sin since you seem to defy the Grace of God, and as HR put it, would rather glory in your flesh, than the righteousness of Christ, it is amazing how the religious loves condemning the world and themselves to death.
 
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charity

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My take on Romans 2...

Commentary on Romans.

You can also back up and see what I wrote on Romans 1...and the teaching is ongoing, I am slowly going through the book.

Hello @justbyfaith,

Sorry to take so long responding to your post. Thank you for giving the link to your study on Romans (#66), in response to my post (#65) which I have read. It is a wonderful, though complex epistle, isn't it?

* You responded to an entry I made to Dave L, in which I quoted Romans chapter 2: but in order to understand my response to him, it is necessary to know what prompted it (#46. #50). @Dave L said, (quote) 'People are free only to sin (serve Satan) apart from New birth.' This is what I challenged.

* Another member has quoted verses which much more adequately disprove those words, whose name now eludes me; but I chose Romans chapter two, for in that chapter we are told that there are those who indeed seek to do good, though having no knowledge of the gospel of Christ; and He who is able to discern the secrets of men's hearts knows who, given opportunity, would believe the gospel of Christ if heard, and those who would not. So there are those who, though having no knowledge of the gospel of Christ, will be granted life on the basis of God's knowledge of what is in their hearts, in that day when He judges the secrets of men's hearts (Romans 2:16).

* As an illustration of this heart knowledge which God has, I quote from Matthew 11:-
'Then began He to upbraid the cities
wherein most of His mighty works were done,
because they repented not:

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida!
for if the mighty works, which were done in you,
had been done in Tyre and Sidon,
they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

But I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom,
it would have remained until this day.
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom
in the day of judgment, than for thee.'

(Matthew 11:20-24)

Praise God!

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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D

Dave L

Guest
Hello @justbyfaith,

Sorry to take so long responding to your post. Thank you for giving the link to your study on Romans (#66), in response to my post (#65) which I have read. It is a wonderful, though complex epistle, isn't it?

* You responded to an entry I made to Dave L, in which I quoted Romans chapter 2: but in order to understand my response to him, it is necessary to know what prompted it (#46. #50). @Dave L said, (quote) 'People are free only to sin (serve Satan) apart from New birth.' This is what I challenged.

* Another member has quoted verses which much more adequately disprove his words, whose name now eludes me; but I chose Romans chapter two, for in that chapter we are told that there are those who indeed seek to do good, though having no knowledge of the gospel of Christ; and He who is able to discern the secrets of men's hearts knows who, given opportunity, would believe the gospel of Christ if heard, and those who would not. So there are those who, though having no knowledge of the gospel of Christ, will be granted life on the basis of His knowledge of what is in their hearts, in that day when He judges the secrets of men's hearts (Romans 2:16).

* As an illustration of this heart knowledge which God has, I quote from Matthew 11:-
'Then began He to upbraid the cities
wherein most of His mighty works were done,
because they repented not:

"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida!
for if the mighty works, which were done in you,
had been done in Tyre and Sidon,
they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

But I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell:
for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom,
it would have remained until this day.
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom
in the day of judgment, than for thee.'

(Matthew 11:20-24)

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Not to butt in, but, repentance under the Law brought only material temporal rewards. And those who did not repent suffered loss, sickness, exile or death. So these verses have nothing to do with free will choices resulting in salvation. Unless first born again, we cannot discern the true Christ but will always choose idols bearing his name.
 

charity

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Not to butt in, but, repentance under the Law brought only material temporal rewards. And those who did not repent suffered loss, sickness, exile or death. So these verses have nothing to do with free will choices resulting in salvation. Unless first born again, we cannot discern the true Christ but will always choose idols bearing his name.
Hello @Dave L,

I can see no relevance in what you say to the subject in hand.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

charity

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@H. Richard's OP:-

1 Cor 15:1-4
15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, NKJV

That Christ died FOR OUR SINS.

It is not what man does. It is all about what Christ did. He died to pay for the sins of ALL MANKIND. The gospel is simple. It is not what man does to save him/her self. It is ALL about what Jesus (GOD) did on the cross.

But like the Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah and King, if a person does not believe (have faith in) that Jesus has paid for their sins then that person can not claim what He did on the cross for them. They, like the Jews, reject His work on the cross and wish to substitute their own works. Just as Cain did.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello @Dave L,

The Gospel: This is the subject being discussed.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Dave L

Guest
Hello @Dave L,

In what way am I doing so?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
Paul says the law cannot save. He says it was for the wicked. God forced them to act as though they loved him and others under threat of death. Also offering temporary rewards for obedience. So it does not demonstrate how salvation happens. Which is purely by grace through a circumcised heart (the new birth) and love being the motive for all we do.
 

charity

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Paul says the law cannot save. He says it was for the wicked. God forced them to act as though they loved him and others under threat of death. Also offering temporary rewards for obedience. So it does not demonstrate how salvation happens. Which is purely by grace through a circumcised heart (the new birth) and love being the motive for all we do.
Hello @Dave L,

This does not answer my question (#78)

In Christ Jesus
Chris