the great Jewish "distress"

[David in NJ]

I don't think @Marty fox is "religious" in that sense though, but I agree with what you say about those who are religious in that sense.

Marty Fox can be set free in his mind, if he chooses.
ALL of us, EVERYONE, must go down the same road, hand in hand with the Holy Spirit as our Guide into Truth in the Scriptures.

i am completely shocked at the outright arrogance and disrespect towards the Word of God and the Commandment in Revelation 22.

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30

 

[Timtofly]

In verse 26 is says, "And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people (of the Ruler (Messiah) who shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war."

The fact that it was said that the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary means that this can be taken to mean 40 years later, or (if you really want to go crazy), 2,000 years later.

I highlighted the grammatical structure of the sentence to clear up any misunderstanding.

"And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people (of the Ruler (Messiah) who shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Verse 25-27


"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto (the Messiah the Prince) Jesus Christ, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall (Messiah) Jesus Christ, be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the (prince) Jesus Christ, that shall come *twice*] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And (he) Jesus Christ *as Prince the second time*, shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"

Those 6 promises can only be fulfilled by Christ. Christ is Messiah the annointed one and Lord, Prince, Ruler. The first time Jesus comes as Messiah. The Second Coming as Prince, Ruler.

Matthew 25:31

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Daniel 9:27 is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet: Revelation 10:5-7

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What was declared to Daniel in Daniel 9:27, that would be fulfilled by Jesus Christ at the Second Coming? It is not cut and paste. It is fulfilled prophecy. The 7th Trumpet signals the confirmation of the Covenant. The 7th Trumpet celebration is a week of days. It starts as all kingdoms being handed over to Christ. However the confirmation of the Covenant, leads to an interruption in the midst of the week. It is this interruption that leads to 42 months of desolation.

 

[Marty fox]

I don't think @Marty fox is "religious" in that sense though, but I agree with what you say about those who are religious in that sense.

Thanks and yes I’m not religious

 

[Zao is life]

I highlighted the grammatical structure of the sentence to clear up any misunderstanding.

"And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself. And the people (of the Ruler (Messiah) who shall come) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Verse 25-27


"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto (the Messiah the Prince) Jesus Christ, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall (Messiah) Jesus Christ, be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the (prince) Jesus Christ, that shall come *twice*] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And (he) Jesus Christ *as Prince the second time*, shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"

Those 6 promises can only be fulfilled by Christ. Christ is Messiah the annointed one and Lord, Prince, Ruler. The first time Jesus comes as Messiah. The Second Coming as Prince, Ruler.

Matthew 25:31

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

Daniel 9:27 is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet: Revelation 10:5-7

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

What was declared to Daniel in Daniel 9:27, that would be fulfilled by Jesus Christ at the Second Coming? It is not cut and paste. It is fulfilled prophecy. The 7th Trumpet signals the confirmation of the Covenant. The 7th Trumpet celebration is a week of days. It starts as all kingdoms being handed over to Christ. However the confirmation of the Covenant, leads to an interruption in the midst of the week. It is this interruption that leads to 42 months of desolation.

I disagree. I only see people inserting into the text a fulfillment that is not in the text. To me It's obvious that the way it would have been understood by 1st century Jews is the way it should be understood today.

 

[Timtofly]

I disagree. I only see people inserting into the text a fulfillment that is not in the text. To me It's obvious that the way it would have been understood by 1st century Jews is the way it should be understood today.

Those first century people who demanded the death of Jesus, said that His blood would be on their hands and the hands of their children.

If Jesus was innocent, they would pay the price for killing an innocent man. Did they pay the price? Did they know that Jerusalem would be made desolate because of them?

 

[Zao is life]

Those first century people who demanded the death of Jesus, said that His blood would be on their hands and the hands of their children.

If Jesus was innocent, they would pay the price for killing an innocent man. Did they pay the price? Did they know that Jerusalem would be made desolate because of them?

We know that Jerusalem was destroyed because of their rejection of Christ. That has nothing to do with ripping the 70th week (or any part of it) out of its chronological Biblical place and shoving it like a square peg into the round hole of seven-year tribulationism.

How do you think the apostles understood the text?

Not the way you do.

 

[Timtofly]

We know that Jerusalem was destroyed because of their rejection of Christ. That has nothing to do with cutting the 70th week (or any part of it) out of its chronological Biblical place and showing it like a square peg into the round hole of seven-year tribulationism.

How do you think the apostles understood the text?

Not the way you do.

The 70th week is 7 years.

It is not 7 years at the first coming.

It is not 7 years at the Second Coming.

It is 7 years when Messiah Prince is on earth and there is great trouble for the house of Jacob.

You can divide the years however you care to, but you cannot claim there is a solid week with any Scripture.


The Apostles knew that Messiah was cut off. They knew Daniel 9:27 was future. They knew the Prince was a future event.

Even Daniel pointed out, the Prince "that shall come." The Apostles recognized Jesus as both Messiah and Prince.

 

[David in NJ]

[

I disagree. I only see people inserting into the text a fulfillment that is not in the text. To me It's obvious that the way it would have been understood by 1st century Jews is the way it should be understood today.

The Ministry of our Lord began the 7 years - this is why His ministry was for 3.5 Years.
The remaining 3.5 Years begin when the 'man of sin' is revealed - just as we see in Revelation.

 

[Zao is life]

[

The Ministry of our Lord began the 7 years - this is why His ministry was for 3.5 Years.
The remaining 3.5 Years begin when the 'man of sin' is revealed - just as we see in Revelation.

The remaining 3.5 years does not occur 1,991+ years later. It occurred 40 years later. Titus was the Prince. The covenant that Christ confirmed was the New Covenant. That's the only covenant the text is referring to. In confirming the New Covenant He was fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

Nowhere does prophetic scripture talk about a man making a covenant with the state called Israel 1,991+ year later, unless eisgegesis is practiced in order to insert human imagination into the text.

 

[David in NJ]

The remaining 3.5 years does not occur 1,991+ years later. It occurred 40 years later. Titus was the Prince. The covenant that Christ confirmed was the New Covenant. That's the only covenant the text is referring to. In confirming the New Covenant He was fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

Nowhere does prophetic scripture talk about a man making a covenant with the state called Israel 1,991+ year later, unless eisgegesis is practiced in order to insert human imagination into the text.

"It occurred 40 Years later..." Prophecy is self repeating until all things are fulfilled as it is written.

Yes, the our Lord confirmed the New Covenant - which we are a part of - we are family - Blood Covenanted FAMILY
We are Adopted by His Choice through GRACE, not of works, less any man should boast - Amen

 

[David in NJ]

"It occurred 40 Years later..." Prophecy is self repeating until all things are fulfilled as it is written.

Yes, the our Lord confirmed the New Covenant - which we are a part of - we are family - Blood Covenanted FAMILY
We are Adopted by His Choice through GRACE, not of works, less any man should boast - Amen

Revelation declares the remaining 3.5 Years begins with the man of sin and his mark.
The Apostles Paul and John AGREE with this. 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 John ch 2 Revelation ch 20

Now if you reject this, i do not question your salvation - remember this statement.

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation declares the remaining 3.5 Years begins with the man of sin and his mark.
The Apostles Paul and John AGREE with this. 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 John ch 2 Revelation ch 20

Now if you reject this, i do not question your salvation - remember this statement.

None of the above = Daniel 9:27 was not fulfilled completely and to its completion in the 1st centrury, nor does it = Daniel 9:27 is still to be fulfilled in the last 3.5 years of this Age (nor the last 7 years of this Age), nor does anything you said = Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in the 1st centruty and will be fulfilled again.

All of the assumptions made after the = sign mentioned above are based on a logical fallacy regarding Daniel 9:27. I doubt that anyone ever came up with a future fulfillment for Daniel 9:27 before the birth of Scofield and those who began the Dispensational teachings regarding Israel.

 

[Timtofly]

The remaining 3.5 years does not occur 1,991+ years later. It occurred 40 years later. Titus was the Prince. The covenant that Christ confirmed was the New Covenant. That's the only covenant the text is referring to. In confirming the New Covenant He was fulfilling Daniel 9:24.

Nowhere does prophetic scripture talk about a man making a covenant with the state called Israel 1,991+ year later, unless eisgegesis is practiced in order to insert human imagination into the text.

Titus was not the Prince of Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9.

You just claimed Jesus Christ returned as Titus. I doubt any will agree with you, that Titus is Jesus Christ. They would be just as wrong, if they did claim Titus was the Messiah the Prince though. The Second Coming was not in 70AD. That would have been the end of the fullness of the Gentiles. You would be using a different sign in name. The Second Coming when the Messiah the Prince shall come is still future.

At the Second Coming and the final harvest is the week of the Confirmation. It is a week of days, not years. It is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Did they witness 7 Trumpets and 7 Thunders in 70AD? Can you give us the 7 Thunders and their descriptions? Was just the 7th Trumpet in 70AD?

 

[Zao is life]

Titus was not the Prince of Messiah the Prince in Daniel 9.

You just claimed Jesus Christ returned as Titus. I doubt any will agree with you, that Titus is Jesus Christ. They would be just as wrong, if they did claim Titus was the Messiah the Prince though. The Second Coming was not in 70AD. That would have been the end of the fullness of the Gentiles. You would be using a different sign in name. The Second Coming when the Messiah the Prince shall come is still future.

At the Second Coming and the final harvest is the week of the Confirmation. It is a week of days, not years. It is the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10:7

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Did they witness 7 Trumpets and 7 Thunders in 70AD? Can you give us the 7 Thunders and their descriptions? Was just the 7th Trumpet in 70AD?

No. Those who claim Titus is not the prince of the people who would destroy the city mentioned in Daniel 9:26-27 are turning Christ into Titus.

 

[Timtofly]

All of the assumptions made after the = sign mentioned above are based on a logical fallacy regarding Daniel 9:27. I doubt that anyone ever came up with a future fulfillment for Daniel 9:27 before the birth of Scofield and those who began the Dispensational teachings regarding Israel.

No one has yet claimed Daniel 9:27 has been fulfilled, until Preterist decided it has been. Messiah was cut off. The Prince has yet to return. Point to the time in history when it was declared the Prince came and set up His glorious throne and judged the nations, per Matthew 25.

Even the person who finally rebuilt Jerusalem, built and sealed up the Eastern gate, pointing to the time it would be opened for the Prince to enter. Even a Muslim seems to have more insight on this Prince returning, than most Preterist do today.

 

[Timtofly]

No. Those who claim Titus is not the prince of the people who would destroy the city mentioned in Daniel 9:26-27 are turning Christ into Titus.

No the ones claiming Daniel 9 is anything other than Messiah the Prince as Jesus Christ, are turning the Messiah the Prince into other humans.

 

[farouk]

Satan can deceive those who aren’t truly spiritually grounded in the word

@Marty fox Daily prayer and the Scriptures are so vital, right?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Revelation declares the remaining 3.5 Years begins with the man of sin and his mark.
The Apostles Paul and John AGREE with this. 1 Thessalonians 2 Thessalonians 1 John ch 2 Revelation ch 20

Now if you reject this, i do not question your salvation - remember this statement.

I just found your message to me David.
I am interested in NJ as well. do you all speak etc like South Park cartoon depicts etc. I was just watching the twin towers on TV and the people talking were not like South Park depicted at all.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

One passage that completely destroys your position is Matt. 24:3:

"Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, 'Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?'"

The disciples clearly asked Christ to give them signs concerning His return. Everything Christ said from that point forward in the chapter was Him answering their questions about the last days. The reason why the apostles initially believed that time had come around A.D. 70 was because they didn't realize that those events were only a forerunner of what is supposed to happen in our future.

Another passage that destroys your position is Matt. 24:21-22:

“For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened."

In this passage, Christ talks about a time where weapons will become advanced enough to render humankind extinct within 3 years. That kind of technology certainly didn't exist in their day. Another indicator that Christ is speaking about His return lies in the fact that He referenced Dan. 12:1 for this portion of the prophecy, and Daniel was exclusively written for the modern era(Dan. 8:19, 10:1, 11:27, 35, 12:4, 7-9).

 

[David in NJ]

I just found your message to me David.
I am interested in NJ as well. do you all speak etc like South Park cartoon depicts etc. I was just watching the twin towers on TV and the people talking were not like South Park depicted at all.

Was away on trip - just returned - will answer you in a day or two - thank you