The Greek εις

[Episkopos]

Yes.

Hebrews heard, agreed to Obey, spread out, and many became accepting of heathen Gentile Ways and customs.

Enter the 12 Tribes of Israel...

10 Tribes we Not accepting of "their" tribal Earthly king and broke away from the remaining 2 Tribes (Judah and Benjamin).

Remaining 2 became commonly called Jews as a People OF Judah.

Their "displacement" out of their lands, effected many adopting heathen Gentile ways and customs. Thus the term "Lost Jews " was Gods reference toward them.

A 400 year Span of time....Then the Lord God Appears on Earth, In the Likeness as a man, a Holy and Faithful Prophet sent From God in Heaven, (Revealed in time as Thee Christ) who came To Seek out The "Lost" Jews and Reveal To them secrets and knowledge that their promised Salvation had Arrived and IS theirs for the Taking/Receiving.

God Bless,
Taken

The lost sheep of Israel includes Ephraim (not just Judah)...which is us! Jesus had 2 sheepfolds...and the 2 became one in Him.

First the Jews...then us. And now both in one.

 

[Episkopos]

John 12:46 "I have come [elehlutha]..." -:- "I AM come..." Jesus no longer is in the world physically; but He "is come into the world" forever.

'~Jesus has come INTO the world as light...~' -:- "I-LIGHT- unto the world -AM-COME" [EGOH-PHOHS- eis ton kosmon -EGOH]. Jesus the Light of the world is come to / unto / for / with the world in view / for the sake of the world.

'~so that whoever believes in (actually "into" εις) me~' -:- "that everyone BELIEVING [ho pisteuohn] in Me" already, does not '~go TO Jesus in order to enter INTO Jesus~' or '~believes INTO Him~', but is staying in Him already and no longer "may remain in ('en' + Dative) darkness".

It's because when the '~word εις implies movement....going from one place to another~', it is found in the Old Testament used with the Dative. In the New Testament though the word 'eis' means and indicates 'tendency', "towards" or "against" and 'anticipates' something in front or in the future and for this very BASIC reason is always used with the Accusative. The word ''eis' in NT Greek is a case in hand of the Preposition being ruled by the Case, and not the Case being ruled by a Preposition.

Incredulous I see.

 

[Hidden In Him]

So then many will seek to enter by the narrow way but will not be able because it is too theologically deep?!

LoL. Let's hope not. That's getting a little theologically deep even for me.

 

[Taken]

The lost sheep of Israel includes Ephraim (not just Judah)...which is us! Jesus had 2 sheepfolds...and the 2 became one in Him.

First the Jews...then us. And now both in one.

As with most Scriptural topics, indepth study and asking God for His understanding is paramount.

Briefly, I would say....
The House of Israel encompasses All 12 Tribes.
The House of Judah referenced the 10 "broke away" northern tribes.
Yet the two southern tribes were Judah and Benjamin.

Broadly speaking; All men with these 12 Tribes have been with God and lost from God.

Broadly Speaking Gentile's were not with God, to have become Lost ie scattered from His Fold, and tending to adopt Gentile customs....they were Gentiles.

IOW Gentile's "were" not included ... but after Christ Jesus' appearence... Gentile's did become a People ...with.... an opportunity for them to be branched in; ie a new Fold....which seems to be your reference in your comment.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

"Taken, post: 433705, member: 7756"]As with most Scriptural topics, indepth study and asking God for His understanding is paramount.

Briefly, I would say....
The House of Israel encompasses All 12 Tribes.
The House of Judah referenced the 10 "broke away" northern tribes.

I think you meant Ephraim...or the northern tribes of Israel


Yet the two southern tribes were Judah and Benjamin.

Broadly speaking; All men with these 12 Tribes have been with God and lost from God.

But the 10 northern tribes were lost and scattered among ALL nations.

Broadly Speaking Gentile's were not with God, to have become Lost ie scattered from His Fold, and tending to adopt Gentile customs....they were Gentiles.

Yes Israel was scattered among the nations to become part of the nations...IOW they lost their national identity

IOW Gentile's "were" not included ... but after Christ Jesus' appearence... Gentile's did become a People ...with.... an opportunity for them to be branched in; ie a new Fold....which seems to be your reference in your comment.

God Bless,
Taken

The Gentile believers become Ephraim (meaning double fruit)

 

[Jay Ross]

Interesting post. You write like you have experience in this area. I do was well. Actually, I'm met with one of two responses to the insights He gives me: Either the one you described above, or dead silence. I'm still struggling with what the answer is, but I believe the biggest problem is a general lack of knowledge of the original languages such that most honestly don't know what to think when they see something new presented. They may sense it is correct in their spirit, but they don't have the skills necessary to confirm it on a scholarly level, so they just pass it off as a curiosity and move on...

What do you feel is the answer to this problem? I have a theory of how it could possibly be corrected, but I don't know how effective it will be until I see it in manifestation.

This was a discussion on this forum, based on my study of both the respective Greek and Hebrew Texts and how the translation of the respective texts gave the wrong impression of when God intended to Gather the Israelites back into himself/the land. The discussion can be found in this thread, : -

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cle-nation-god-s-eternal-chosen-people.26514/

The responses are typical of people who hate change.

The responses could be as a result to my style of expressing myself.

Either way, the respondents, rejected what I was posting and blew it off so to speak without giving a second thought to the truth of the matter.

In my comments on the Romans 11:25-26, I was focusing on the "fullness" with respect to "time" of the Heathen Gentiles, whereas the "traditional" translation has been based on the "fullness" with respect to "number" and is used to justify a number of false theological positions/understandings with respect to the nation of Israel, i.e. replacement theology.

In my comments on Ezekiel 34:13 where both, H:0127 is translated as "their own land" instead of being in a place where they can send down their roots and be nourished in the soil that God has prepared for them to grow into the Nation of Priests and a Holy nation that He intended them to be, and H:0776 is translated as "the country", whereas it is the same Hebrew word, from my understanding as is found in Genesis 1:1, which is translated as "the earth" in this verse. This traditional translated passage is often quoted to justify the return of Israel to the land in our near future, and much evangelical traditional thinking has been used to justify many of the mistakes made to support the return of Israel to the land "now", so to speak, so that God can then do His thing and our "getting to heaven" is hastened. It is also linked into the mistaken understanding that a third physical temple needs to be built "now" as well for Satan to enter at some time in our distant future, which is contrary to what Christ prophesied in Luke 14 where He said that Israel would not have the means to finish that task.

My previous post example and the responses in the other thread, goes to the heart/thrust of the OP in this thread, without focusing on how just one particular Greek word is translated.

So yes I have had experiences of being bullied and being put down for many years in forums where I have made suggestions contrary to what the popular understanding of most people.

Shalom

 

[Taken]

"

The Gentile believers become Ephraim (meaning double fruit)

Pretty sure I mean Benjamin.

Never heard the Gentiles become Ephraim nor by the same token that Jews become Hebrews or Christians.

Bottom line....All who Believe And become Converted ARE and shall Be Gods People.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Interesting post. You write like you have experience in this area. I do was well. Actually, I'm met with one of two responses to the insights He gives me: Either the one you described above, or dead silence. I'm still struggling with what the answer is, but I believe the biggest problem is a general lack of knowledge of the original languages such that most honestly don't know what to think when they see something new presented. They may sense it is correct in their spirit, but they don't have the skills necessary to confirm it on a scholarly level, so they just pass it off as a curiosity and move on...

What do you feel is the answer to this problem? I have a theory of how it could possibly be corrected, but I don't know how effective it will be until I see it in manifestation.

'~What do you feel is the answer to this problem?~'
My answer is, Believe the KJV.
Is there any specific text or incidence of 'eis' in the KJV NT which you cannot or would not believe? As Episkopos said, '~The bible is all about the details.~'

 

[Jay Ross]

'~What do you feel is the answer to this problem?~'
My answer is, Believe the KJV.
Is there any specific text or incidence of 'eis' in the KJV NT which you cannot or would not believe? As Episkopos said, '~The bible is all about the details.~'

The translations of the source textual copies into the Traditional translations, i.e. the English Translations, leaves a lot to be desired.

All translations are a fallible translation of the message that was being given in the source texts.

Is the KJV any better in this sense.

I will qualify my response in that the translations that we have is still the best source for English reader to begin their learning about establishing their relationship with God. They are best considered to be a relationship repair manual for our relationship with God. With that being said, the variously labelled translations are not the only source to base the repair of our relationship with God on, but they do help us along the way.

Shalom

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The word εις implies movement....going from one place to another. We go TO Jesus in order to enter INTO Jesus.

Movement: “We go to Jesus in order to enter INTO Jesus.”

Hebrews 12:7
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

1 Corinthians 13:3-7
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This was a discussion on this forum, based on my study of both the respective Greek and Hebrew Texts and how the translation of the respective texts gave the wrong impression of when God intended to Gather the Israelites back into himself/the land. The discussion can be found in this thread, : -

https://www.christianityboard.com/t...cle-nation-god-s-eternal-chosen-people.26514/

The responses are typical of people who hate change.

The responses could be as a result to my style of expressing myself.

Either way, the respondents, rejected what I was posting and blew it off so to speak without giving a second thought to the truth of the matter.

In my comments on the Romans 11:25-26, I was focusing on the "fullness" with respect to "time" of the Heathen Gentiles, whereas the "traditional" translation has been based on the "fullness" with respect to "number" and is used to justify a number of false theological positions/understandings with respect to the nation of Israel, i.e. replacement theology.

In my comments on Ezekiel 34:13 where both, H:0127 is translated as "their own land" instead of being in a place where they can send down their roots and be nourished in the soil that God has prepared for them to grow into the Nation of Priests and a Holy nation that He intended them to be, and H:0776 is translated as "the country", whereas it is the same Hebrew word, from my understanding as is found in Genesis 1:1, which is translated as "the earth" in this verse. This traditional translated passage is often quoted to justify the return of Israel to the land in our near future, and much evangelical traditional thinking has been used to justify many of the mistakes made to support the return of Israel to the land "now", so to speak, so that God can then do His thing and our "getting to heaven" is hastened. It is also linked into the mistaken understanding that a third physical temple needs to be built "now" as well for Satan to enter at some time in our distant future, which is contrary to what Christ prophesied in Luke 14 where He said that Israel would not have the means to finish that task.

My previous post example and the responses in the other thread, goes to the heart/thrust of the OP in this thread, without focusing on how just one particular Greek word is translated.

So yes I have had experiences of being bullied and being put down for many years in forums where I have made suggestions contrary to what the popular understanding of most people.

Shalom

I read through much of the thread, and while I don't have the time to invest in it heavily atm, I don't really have a problem with it. The reason is simple: I believe in partial fulfillments of prophecy, with the greater fulfillment coming later. You can see this occur time and time again in scripture, so I see no problem in it being present here as well. I certainly agree that not all of Israel has resettled in the land yet, nor that all Israel has gotten saved yet.

Blessings and peace.