The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jim B

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2020
5,793
1,797
113
Santa Fe NM
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It doesn't saying eating bread. It says breaking of bread. You only break bread from Jesus' teachings. I didn't get that incorrect.
Yes you did. Do you really think that people ate entire loaves of bread? That is absurd. The bread of Biblical times were loaves of barley bread that were broken and shared among the people present.

Here is some examples of breaking bread ...

Acts 2:42-46, " They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

Acts 20:7-12, "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. When he was sound asleep, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “He’s alive!” Then he went upstairs again and broke bread and ate. After talking until daylight, he left. The people took the young man home alive and were greatly comforted."

Acts 27:33-35, "Just before dawn Paul urged them all to eat. “For the last fourteen days,” he said, “you have been in constant suspense and have gone without food—you haven’t eaten anything. Now I urge you to take some food. You need it to survive. Not one of you will lose a single hair from his head.” After he said this, he took some bread and gave thanks to God in front of them all. Then he broke it and began to eat."

Matthew 12:4, "He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And here is Jesus breaking bread aside from the last supper...

Mark 8:14-21, "The disciples had forgotten to bring bread, except for one loaf they had with them in the boat. “Be careful,” Jesus warned them. “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod.”

They discussed this with one another and said, “It is because we have no bread.”

Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened? Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don’t you remember? When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

“Twelve,” they replied.

And when I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

They answered, “Seven.”

He said to them, “Do you still not understand?”

Mark 6:35-42, "By this time it was late in the day, so his disciples came to him. “This is a remote place,” they said, “and it’s already very late. 36 Send the people away so that they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.”

But he answered, “You give them something to eat.”

They said to him, “That would take more than half a year’s wages[e]! Are we to go and spend that much on bread and give it to them to eat?”

“How many loaves do you have?” he asked. “Go and see.”

When they found out, they said, “Five—and two fish.”

Then Jesus directed them to have all the people sit down in groups on the green grass. So they sat down in groups of hundreds and fifties. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people. He also divided the two fish among them all. They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces of bread and fish. The number of the men who had eaten was five thousand.".
 
  • Like
Reactions: GRACE ambassador

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You give answers based on your legalistic mindset.

I just take Jesus words for what he meant

why is the cross such a failure to you? How has jesus failed so much you think you have to add your work to the cross?
And there is the false flag attack - legalistic! Legalistic! It’s bad sleight of hand, very transparent. Why not answer instead, with the verses that perhaps informed your assertion that the manna from heaven is the instrument of torture Jesus died on.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Laurina and Jim B

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,533
17,225
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And there is the false flag attack - legalistic! Legalistic! It’s bad sleight of hand, very transparent. Why not answer instead, with the verses that perhaps informed your assertion that the manna from heaven is the cross.
Well he has a round a bout point. We learn in the old testament that to be forgiven of our sins we must sacrifice animals. Jesus is the Lamb of God. He was sacrificed on the cross. Although the cross isn't Jesus the Christ. Jesus obviously is. The scriptures indicate that the spirit of God is life. And Jesus sacrifice joins us sinners with the Holy Spirit.

So I don't know what the cross has to do with it either. The cross is more like the altar and knife for the sacrifice. Not the animal in the old testament.
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It doesn't saying eating bread. It says breaking of bread. You only break bread from Jesus' teachings. I didn't get that incorrect.
Well, you break bread to eat bread. You break off a piece. The term “breaking of bread” does mean to have a meal. And breaking it “together” does mean two or more eating a meal together.

Of course, we mostly slice our bread now rather than breaking but I’ve been to some restaurants, a Moroccan one and a fondue place where they do give you whole loaves you have to tear/break pieces off of with your hands. There was an intimacy about it somehow…that every hand at the table touched the same bread. :) And at the Moroccan place, the first thing they did when you sat was they came by and washed every persons hands because each course came on a huge round platter that you ate from with your hands. Cool experience Dev, if you ever run across a Moroccan restaurant. :)

Scripture does show breaking bread, eat my body, I am the bread from heaven, the father and I will come and share a meal together with you, Jesus breaking the bread and it being passed out to everyone to eat.

Weve all had those moments, some with a welling up in the eyes and that feeling of closeness/communion with the Holy Spirit, some with the goosebumps and feeling of waves washing over your body. That IS Rev 3:20. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Laurina and Jim B

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well he has a round a bout point. We learn in the old testament that to be forgiven of our sins we must sacrifice animals. Jesus is the Lamb of God. He was sacrificed on the cross. Although the cross isn't Jesus the Christ. Jesus obviously is. The scriptures indicate that the spirit of God is life. And Jesus sacrifice joins us sinners with the Holy Spirit.

So I don't know what the cross has to do with it either. The cross is more like the altar and knife for the sacrifice. Not the animal in the old testament.
Okay. I can see some vagueish, undefined, not line upon line way of looking at it like that. But we do actually have a verse, I am the bread/manna from heaven. And we DONT have a verse that says, I am the cross from heaven. But whatever concepts or ways of looking at it that work to bring one closer to God are good.
Might be better to couch it in terms like: this is kind of how I see it rather than: this IS correct.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes I know some people think that what the Lord told us to do is not necessary. I disagree with that.
You know what dev, if your conscience is bothered if you don’t do the outward ceremony of communion in a church, then you should do it. :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dev553344

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Apr 30, 2018
16,897
25,643
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
you are so focused on works and self.

This is NOT what it means

Peter said what it means, We have come to know and believe YOU ARE THE CHRIST

Eating the flesh and drinking is to eat the bread of life. which is the cross.

It has nothing to do with how good we are or what we do.
Hello Eternally Grateful!
Jesus is DE-VINE and we are the branches. If we are not "in Him" then, we are not born again. "Works", The bible say's to Love God IS to obey Him so, yes, good works are something that should always proceed from a born again person, naturally...if we indeed have His Spirit in us.

I don't quite understand you thinking of the "Cross" as our daily bread...His word IS the manna from heaven that we are to feast upon daily to keep strong and filled.
Are we not to be hearers only but, doers also?
JM2c
 

stunnedbygrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2018
12,397
12,048
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus did say do this in remembrance of Me. When they met together as brothers to have an intimate meal or in celebration of Passover. There’s nothing wrong with outward or ceremonial practice.

And if someone believes it’s a law He wrote and not ceremony, I guess you just have to let them do what they think they must. For myself, I’m not sure ALL Catholics do. I think some of them probably understand the spirit of the matter.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,851
21,893
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well he has a round a bout point. We learn in the old testament that to be forgiven of our sins we must sacrifice animals. Jesus is the Lamb of God. He was sacrificed on the cross. Although the cross isn't Jesus the Christ. Jesus obviously is. The scriptures indicate that the spirit of God is life. And Jesus sacrifice joins us sinners with the Holy Spirit.

So I don't know what the cross has to do with it either. The cross is more like the altar and knife for the sacrifice. Not the animal in the old testament.
What is the breaking of the bread but for the cross?

Much love!
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,926
8,374
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No but IT IS the sacrament of  some organized religions that think this brings them closer to God!
yes it is, Because they do not understand John 6 and try to make them both the same

In John 6 Jesus said whoever eats will never die, never hunger or thirst. Live forever etc etc

at the lords supper he said do this often in remembrance of me..

one does not jive with the other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,926
8,374
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hello Eternally Grateful!
Jesus is DE-VINE and we are the branches. If we are not "in Him" then, we are not born again. "Works", The bible say's to Love God IS to obey Him so, yes, good works are something that should always proceed from a born again person, naturally...if we indeed have His Spirit in us.

I don't quite understand you thinking of the "Cross" as our daily bread...His word IS the manna from heaven that we are to feast upon daily to keep strong and filled.
Are we not to be hearers only but, doers also?
JM2c
Yes, we have works of sanctification. which are what you are talking about here. Amen..

we are talking here of works of justification, Or a work one must do to be saved,

The jews prided themselves on works. and crucified christ because they rejected the cross.

Sadly. Many churches are no different. why they do not deny christ, By their words, they in fact do deny him and his cross..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Apr 30, 2018
16,897
25,643
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, we have works of sanctification. which are what you are talking about here. Amen..

we are talking here of works of justification, Or a work one must do to be saved,

The jews prided themselves on works. and crucified christ because they rejected the cross.

Sadly. Many churches are no different. why they do not deny christ, By their words, they in fact do deny him and his cross..
Totally understood. It is not OUR works but His, through us and, not for salvation ever of course. Yes, we have two different "kinds" of works...of the flesh, or the Spirit. My belief is that Episkopos was referring to the second...?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Laurina

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,926
8,374
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Totally understood. It is not OUR works but His, through us and, not for salvation ever of course. Yes, we have two different "kinds" of works...of the flesh, or the Spirit. My belief is that Episkopos was referring to the second...?
no,

He is one who believes it is our works which will ultimately decide our salvation.. He makes it appear as if he is talking about the second. But he is in reality saying if one does not do those works. they will lose salvation or they are not saved..

I have known him for many a year.. he has always spoke the same. he is very crafty, You have to pay close attention to him
 
  • Like
Reactions: GTW27 and marks

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,988
19,581
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Totally understood. It is not OUR works but His, through us and, not for salvation ever of course. Yes, we have two different "kinds" of works...of the flesh, or the Spirit. My belief is that Episkopos was referring to the second...?
Human works are not evil...but they can't be mixed with divine works. That mixture produces iniquity. Human works are insufficient to be pleasing to God. However, we can still be accepted by God in our own strength with the proper attitude...humility, honesty. God doesn't expect us to do more with less.

A present salvation is available through abiding in Christ. The higher walk by the Spirit does the works created in advance. Those through whom those works are made manifest in this life get a reward in the next.
 

Keturah

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2022
1,335
1,527
113
Here
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm sorry @dev553344 .

I took the word  SACRAMENT and ASSumed you were speaking of the Eucharist or Bread/Wine sacrament without reading the gospel of John 6.

This happens & I believe very often, then things go out of kilter in threads.

It was nigh on to the Passover during the feeding of the loaves & fishes to the multitude. Jesus fed their natural hunger by the miracle but had to open blind eyes to see their spiritual hunger.

Man too often feeds the natural while the spiritual man starves!

He is our Passover lamb, the bread of life. He had to be broken @ the cross to fulfil the sacrificial requirement for sins debt. Belief by faith of this precious offering is required for ALL seeking eternal life.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,988
19,581
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
no,

He is one who believes it is our works which will ultimately decide our salvation..

Your reading skills would have to improve considerably to get what I'm saying.

Salvation NOW is by entering into Christ to walk in His life. Those who do so will receive a reward in the age to come. They will rule with Christ. They are saints.

Then there is a salvation based on mercy AND works on judgment day...not NOW. No race is judged until the end. So then you have to differentiate between walking in salvation today...through the resurrection power of Christ AND a future inheritance of salvation later for the righteous.


He makes it appear as if he is talking about the second. But he is in reality saying if one does not do those works. they will lose salvation or they are not saved..
That's not what I'm saying at all. Again, reading skills.....very important.

Being saved NOW is by walking in the Spirit by faith. Being saved as an inheritance is later (on judgment day) and that is by works.

Even the saints are judged...but for them there is a reward...not just a place among the nations. The religious ones (pretenders) will be judged as being unfit for either the city (saints) or the nations (the righteous)....and will be cast into outer darkness.
I have known him for many a year.. he has always spoke the same. he is very crafty, You have to pay close attention to him
I have seen your reading skills not improve throughout that whole time. You'd think you would have understood a little of what I explain in detail time and time again.

Your beliefs are very easy to remember as they are based on a simplistic ideology that even people with impaired reading skills can understand. :rolleyes:
 

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,533
17,225
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm sorry @dev553344 .

I took the word  SACRAMENT and ASSumed you were speaking of the Eucharist or Bread/Wine sacrament without reading the gospel of John 6.

This happens & I believe very often, then things go out of kilter in threads.

It was nigh on to the Passover during the feeding of the loaves & fishes to the multitude. Jesus fed their natural hunger by the miracle but had to open blind eyes to see their spiritual hunger.

Man too often feeds the natural while the spiritual man starves!

He is our Passover lamb, the bread of life. He had to be broken @ the cross to fulfil the sacrificial requirement for sins debt. Belief by faith of this precious offering is required for ALL seeking eternal life.
I didn't notice and no I don't believe in the Eucharist. I believe Jesus performs the sacrifice bread and wine with the Holy Spirit. I think that was the point of my responses. Cheers!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Keturah and marks