The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

[Episkopos]

You keep proving my point for me

Salvation is solely on the cross..

You are presently saved when YOU join Jesus on the cross in order to walk in HIS life...NOW.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..and demons also believe that. There is no reward for claiming Jesus' sacrifice for oneself. Jesus is the Lamb of GOD...not OUR Lamb.

He purchased our salvation with his blood as he made atonement for us.. It is he who made propitiation for our sins. Not us

But you can't name and claim Jesus as your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise every religious nut would become a Christian based on a false assumption. It's a good thing we have so many qualified bible teachers to warn people against that sort of thing.

I am not hiding anything, I am just not ADDING things like you are doing

Where am I adding? I think you are subtracting.

I understand completely what Jesus meant. and paul and the rest

At least, in your opinion, you do. I think you have gone right past the truth onto something else entirely.

We are SAVED by grace through faith and not work

Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk. It is by faith. But not OUR faith...the faith OF Christ.

Salvation from sin and this world is by a miraculous walk in the Spirit...not some religious scheme based on human beliefs. You have the scale all wrong.

for we are his WORKMANSHIP created in christ for good works

1st comes salvation

THEN come the works which procede from salvation. But those works are a result of salvation. Not a means to keep that salvation. That is basic works heresy. no different than the jews who tried to add the law

In the higher walk...yes...that's true. No one can do the miraculous works of Christ unless they walk by grace...which is the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. In HIS life we do HIS works that proceed from the salvation of Christ.

But you think that you always do this...without any reference to reality...because it's based on religion not the truth.

The lack of reality in evidence among most evangelicals is based on adopting an ideology that tells people they are walking on a level that almost no one is actually walking on. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Look, they say, how clothed I am...whereas (as Jesus said) he is poor, naked, wretched and blind. But who listens to Jesus nowadays?

see, you keep proving my point

You’re right, though Jesus is the lamb of God. You forgot about the part where it says he takes away the sin of the world

So you're saying that the world has no more sin?

So I am supposed to in faith call out to Jesus for his gift.. like the tax collector did. but thats not enough?

Like Abel...you cry out to God until he accepts your sacrifice...which is your reasonable service...as it is written.

Sorry bro. Jesus said the tax collector went home saved.

Are you saying you collect taxes? Are you the thief on the cross? Why aren't you seen as a Laodicean who makes claims that aren't true? Who decides that?

I can say a sinners prayer all i want. But unless I have true saving with. All i do is spout words.. Your trying to use easy believism as a means to support your works based gospel//

Easy believism is what I'm countering in you.

What are you adding? Do your read your posts?

Here you go with works again Its all about you. Not christ.. To you it is christ plus. Or faith plus.

thats not what the word says

Have you not read 2 Pet. 1....where we are told to add to OUR faith?

Do you know the difference between our own faith and the faith OF Christ?

 

[Episkopos]

Paul in 1 cor says we will all be at the judgment seat. And there will be reward. gold silver precious stone, wood hay and straw/ it will be tried by fire.. He then goes on to say that even the one who had all of his reward burnt as wood hey or straw. Is still saved even though as through fire.

This person had no fruit. He did not earn any reward. He has nothign to show for his work here on earth. Yet paul says he is saved.

can you explain to me who this person is in your belief system?

Saved is not always what you think. In a great house there are both vessels of honour (a good thing) and vessels of dishonour (not a good thing) Both of these vessels are saved. And these are from the same lump...the same people...saved people.

A person who does carnal works that are burned up will suffer LOSS. They will be rejected from the presence of God...forever.

 

[marks]

Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk.

You should be more honest about this. What you've said so many times. That you have to perfect your own works (crucify your own flesh) before God will - perhaps - take you up into this walk as you say. If, by your works, you've sufficiently attracted His attention.

In salvation, we are baptized into Christ - crucified with Him - but we don't, we can't do that ourselves. God does that.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Like Abel...you cry out to God until he accepts your sacrifice...which is your reasonable service...as it is written.

Every word here is significant to this point.

Romans 10:5-11 KJV
5) For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6) But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

There are other places in the bible well he tells us to do good works.

In your scheme good works are impossible because only God is righteous. And comparitively, this is so. But God imputes righteousness on the righteous. The righteous do good works.

Works meet for repentance.

And one of the works of righteousness is repentance. If there was no possibility of righteousness for men, then repentance would be impossible.

And he tells us that we follow Christ. When Christ was risen with the Father and shared the Comforter with us he also directs us to good works. Although our works won't save us, they show God that we are repenting of our wicked ways.

Sort of. You are confusing the ways of God and the ways of men here.

There is NO sin at all in Christ. In Him is no sin. So if you sin...then you are not abiding in Him. We all can follow Christ at any number of distances...usually where we feel most comfortable...but that walk is still in our own power.

Don't get the perfection in Christ mixed up with our own half-baked efforts at righteousness.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You should be more honest about this

I see that as an attack to tell him he should be more honest. So what should someone respond to nonsense like that with? I think YOU should be more honest? See how that works?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are presently saved when YOU join Jesus on the cross in order to walk in HIS life...NOW.

[/QUOTE]

thats not what jesus said, he said whoever believes will never perish but will love forever.

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world..and demons also believe that. There is no reward for claiming Jesus' sacrifice for oneself. Jesus is the Lamb of GOD...not OUR Lamb.

Salvation is not a reward, it’s a gift. And he said only those who have true faith will recieve it..

will you receive it? Or keep trying to earn it

But you can't name and claim Jesus as your sacrifice. It doesn't work that way. Otherwise every religious nut would becomE

a Christian based on a false assumption. It's a good thing we have so many qualified bible teachers to warn people against that sort of thing.

Who said anything about naming and claiming? Thats your words not mine..

Where am I adding? I think you are subtracting.

At least, in your opinion, you do. I think you have gone right past the truth onto something else entirely.

If you can see where you’re adding, I can;t help you. I know myself and many others have tried to show you for years now.

Presently yes. There are NO works possible to be translated into the heavenly walk. It is by faith. But not OUR faith...the faith OF Christ.

lol. You’re worried about a walk. A walk is mearning less unless your saved.. No matter how hard you try. You will never walk in A way you earn salvation.

Salvation from sin and this world is by a miraculous walk in the Spirit...not some religious scheme based on human beliefs. You have the scale all wrong.

see. Works again.

Salvation is from the penalty of sin.. the penalty of sin is death. Not walking in the spirit.

In the higher walk...yes...that's true. No one can do the miraculous works of Christ unless they walk by grace...which is the power that resurrected Jesus from the dead. In HIS life we do HIS works that proceed from the salvation of Christ.

But you think that you always do this...without any reference to reality...because it's based on religion not the truth.

The lack of reality in evidence among most evangelicals is based on adopting an ideology that tells people they are walking on a level that almost no one is actually walking on. It's like the emperor's new clothes. Look, they say, how clothed I am...whereas (as Jesus said) he is poor, naked, wretched and blind. But who listens to Jesus nowadays?


So you're saying that the world has no more sin?


Like Abel...you cry out to God until he accepts your sacrifice...which is your reasonable service...as it is written.

My sacrifice? I am not offering a sacrifice you are. Christ is my sacrifice.

I am amazed at how many people fall for your charismatic words. And can not see what you are doing how you twist things to make yourself look good while bearing false witness against those who do not agree with you

Are you saying you collect taxes? Are you the thief on the cross? Why aren't you seen as a Laodicean who makes claims that aren't true? Who decides that?

good god..

See what I mean, How you twist things?

Luke 18: 9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be [d]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

You are the pharisee in this parable. Because all yu talk about is your works. And how your not like the sinner.

The tax collector got on his knees, bankrupt. And called out in faith

who was justified?

Not you

Easy believism is what I'm countering in you.

Have you not read 2 Pet. 1....where we are told to add to OUR faith?

Do you know the difference between our own faith and the faith OF Christ?

Easy believism is licentiousness. It is a belief with no faith

You prove how hard it is to come to God with just faith and not works.. Your gospel is no different than the worlds gospels.. Be good. And you will make it..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Saved is not always what you think. In a great house there are both vessels of honour (a good thing) and vessels of dishonour (not a good thing) Both of these vessels are saved. And these are from the same lump...the same people...saved people.

A person who does carnal works that are burned up will suffer LOSS. They will be rejected from the presence of God...forever.

Thank you

You just proved my point

Thi sis the bema seat judgement, Not the great white throne judgement, there will be no unbelievers at this judgment, the only reward they will get is the lack of fire..

Keep trying to save yourself my friend.. I beg of you. Do not end up at the great white, end up in the bema/

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You should be more honest about this. What you've said so many times. That you have to perfect your own works (crucify your own flesh) before God will - perhaps - take you up into this walk as you say. If, by your works, you've sufficiently attracted His attention.

In salvation, we are baptized into Christ - crucified with Him - but we don't, we can't do that ourselves. God does that.

Much love!

I believe paul calls them fools. Who begin in the spirit (initial salvation) but think they must perfect in the flesh (maintain salvation by works)

 

[Episkopos]

You should be more honest about this.

I only say this in every second post I do. I think you aren't understanding God's ways. It's funny you use the word "honest" here. My teaching is very very consistent. Go back as many years and read my posts. I say the same things over and over again.

What you've said so many times. That you have to perfect your own works (crucify your own flesh) before God will - perhaps - take you up into this walk as you say. If, by your works, you've sufficiently attracted His attention.

No...I never said that. It's about faith/ We begin with our faith....and we sacrifice ourselves fully to Him. He decides when we have given ALL.

I have explained this MANY times. Our faith is like a heaving line..HIS faith is like a towing cable. Our faith springs up from the earth and his faith comes down from heaven...like lightning.

I think you are reading what other people say I say...and not my own posts. Maybe you have me on ignore???

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am amazed at how many people fall for your charismatic words. And can not see what you are doing how you twist things to make yourself look good while bearing false witness against those who do not agree with you

I also see this as an attack. I think YOU twist things. Now what? See how that works? Use your big boy words and scripture.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I only say this in every second post I do. I think you aren't understanding God's ways. It's funny you use the word "honest" here. My teaching is very very consistent. Go back as many years and read my posts. I say the same things over and over again.


No...I never said that. It's about faith/ We begin with our faith....and we sacrifice ourselves fully to Him. He decides when we have given ALL.

I have explained this MANY times. Our faith is like a heaving line..HIS faith is like a towing cable. Our faith springs up from the earth and his faith comes down from heaven...like lightning.

I think you are reading what other people say I say...and not my own posts. Maybe you have me on ignore???

Its all about you

I just want to thank you. You have proven everything I have said about you to be true..

John said we HAVE eternal life

Paul said we RE SAVED

paul even said everything that was against us and contrary to us, was nailed to the cross.

you suffer the same ill the jews suffered. They think they were ok. They think they did not need saved.. so rejected christ when he told them the same thing people are telling you.

I do not know the christ you follow..

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe paul calls them fools. Who begin in the spirit (initial salvation) but think they must perfect in the flesh (maintain salvation by works)

There you go again. Passive aggressive dig but cya by having one degree of separation. You talk about him with someone else within the thread but don’t call him a fool directly. It’s ridiculously transparent.

 

[Episkopos]

I believe paul calls them fools. Who begin in the spirit (initial salvation) but think they must perfect in the flesh (maintain salvation by works)

Actually we are to begin in the Spirit and then go to God...to His throne...to get the FULL MEASURE of grace so that our salvation is complete.

This idea of salvation by works...you don't understand. Paul was defending Gentile believers against the Jews who wanted them to become Jews and follow the law of Moses.

Being perfected by the flesh is what religious people do...by NOT going to get the full measure of grace...instead saying...I'll take it from here. Anyone I have seen that believes in progressive sanctification is trying to be saved by their own efforts. Anyone who has actually experienced holiness knows that you don't earn it bit by bit. You are either holy or not. You are either crucified dead (no sin) or not.

Why play games with God?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Its all about you

You’re the one who began this perfidious stench, once more. The first jab came from you. You made it all about him. You are the Typhoid Mary here, the one who began it. You brought the bad spirit. Then marks piled on too and he answers marks attack and says, “no I don’t do that, I do such and such. And then you respond, “you make it all about you!“ It’s the most ridiculous tag teaming. You gave the first jab of personal attack. You did. And it’s plain to see if anyone reads the thread. And you’ve been doing it in more than one Internet forum for over 10 years with your friend. I’m not letting your nonsense go without telling the truth. You began the strife in this thread. You.

 

[marks]

I see that as an attack to tell him he should be more honest. So what should someone respond to nonsense like that with? I think YOU should be more honest? See how that works?

We all have our opinions, and we all feel free to express them at times.

I made a recommendation. Any comment on the rest of my post? I didn't just post that one sentence you know.

I made a certain point. He denies the necessity of the works he requires. Do you see the conflict?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I believe paul calls them fools. Who begin in the spirit (initial salvation) but think they must perfect in the flesh (maintain salvation by works)

Galatians is very clear about that.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Its all about you

This sounds more like a confession than an accusation. You are the one that wants so badly to be saved. You' go to any lengths...to avoid the scriptures that get in your way. But you need the whole counsel of God...and also to learn righteousness that can help you become wise unto salvation. Paul said that.

I just want to thank you. You have proven everything I have said about you to be true..

What have you said? That you are happy to be shown the truth?

John said we HAVE eternal life

John who? How does he know you have eternal life?

Paul said we RE SAVED

Paul who? Is he a friend of John?

paul even said everything that was against us and contrary to us, was nailed to the cross.

Are you sure he was thinking of you when he said that? Why wasn't it Jesus talking to you when he addressed the Laodiceans? Would you ignore the words of Jesus in order to be saved?

you suffer the same ill the jews suffered. They think they were ok.

Don't you think you are OK? That you are rich and in need of nothing? That you understand Jesus and Paul?

It is because you say "I see" that you remain the same.

They think they did not need saved.. so rejected christ when he told them the same thing people are telling you.

I do not know the christ you follow..

Exactly! I have walked in Zion with Christ...for extended periods. He is a giver of life and power...power to walk as He walked as one abides IN Him. This available walk is the greatest kept secret in the world.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

We all have our opinions, and we all feel free to express them at times.

I made a recommendation. Any comment on the rest of my post? I didn't just post that one sentence you know.

I made a certain point. He denies the necessity of the works he requires. Do you see the conflict?

Much love!

My only comment is that you should be more honest. See how that works?

 

[marks]

No...I never said that.

Well, if I feel like taking the time, I'll copy some posts for you. No, I haven't been ignoring. I've been paying attention.

Much love!