The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

[Eternally Grateful]

I see it as a smug religious self-assurance...

Again, You need to read your own words.

Your the one who is all about works and self assurance. Not us.

You reject grace and try to insert your own righteousness, your assurance is in your self..

Again you slander people.. I pray people see everything you are doing..

 

[jcentricity]

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

I watch online Mass and struggled with the Sacrament always feeling it is thru the spirit that it manifests. And when I read John Chapter 6 it confirmed to me that the bread and wine is symbolic of the body and blood of Christ our Lord. But the sacrement isn't a physical manifestation of our Lord. He blesses us thru the Holy Spirit, the Quickening Spirit to bring us eternal life.

Recomend reading all of John chapter 6. Thoughts?

Papacy believes through Transubstantiation the Mass wafer literally becomes Jesus Christ. They have turned the wafer into an idol and the wafer is their god. The image of the beast or wafer "speaks" through their church doctrine. 4th beast in Book of Revelation is the Roman Empire. The image of the beast in the Book of Revelation = Mass Wafer = The Abomination of Desolation spoken of in Daniel and Matthew 24. Bible predicted churches would become Apostate and revive age old Gentile paganism in the church. Even at this time a portion of Protestant churches have become Apostate.

 

[marks]

11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

This part too.

Much love!

 

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.when I defend the power of the gospel?

That's not why the silence. At least on my part.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This is not what eternally grateful says or believes.

You need to stop trying to interpret people the same way you interpret the word

That's just it. Others are not being fairly represented. It's dishonest.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's just it. Others are not being fairly represented. It's dishonest.

Much love!

Just pray others see this, and they then see what is going on and walk away. or try to help the person like we have.

 

[marks]

Here is the crux of the matter. What is being accepted as truth is that God doesn't see the sins of believers the same way He sees sins of unbelievers. It's the only way to see a gospel that doesn't provide power over sin. But that's not the gospel. Sin is sin. God is NOT a respecter of persons.

No, that's not it.

Romans 6:3-12 KJV
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

This passage, whenever I've post this passage, you've not responded. I've bolded certain parts, but it's all important.

This isn't describing "God plays pretend", it's describing a new life.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

God holds us responsible for our sin. He will chasten those who are his.. Maybe you do not understand this? Many even sleep because of their sin.

If Jesus died for the penalty of our sins...how does He hold us responsible for our sins?

Should we even TRY to not sin. Or does sin not matter anymore? Which is it?

How are we to stop sinning? Is there a power (grace) that causes us to not sin...that gives us the power over sin?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’m back.
Are these verses correct? And if not, why?

And her husband Joseph, since he was a man of filthy rags and did not want to disgrace her, planned to send her away secretly.

For I say to you that unless your filthy rags far surpasses the filthy rags of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in filthy rags, so that the man or woman of God may be fully capable, equipped for every good work.

Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in filthy rags?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If Jesus died for the penalty of our sins...how does He hold us responsible for our sins?

he died for the penalty. because if he did not. We would all end up in Hell

how many times do I have to post that the penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

Should we even TRY to not sin. Or does sin not matter anymore? Which is it?

How are we to stop sinning? Is there a power (grace) that causes us...gives us the power over sin?

Jesus told us how.. The law of love

Paul told us how. seek after the things of the spirit

But if your not born again, Not saved, Not adopted as Gods son, Not made alive in him. All the work you do to stop sin will get you zero credit in heaven.

Because you emained dead and condemned due to unbelief

 

[Episkopos]

The apostle john says whoever lives in sin has neither known or seen God

Whoever has been born of God can not live in sin

Your bible says "practice" sin? That word is added in. There is no "practice" sin. That is religious mumbo-jumbo. And besides even the worst translations say.... "does NOT sin". Read that passage more carefully.

Jesus says...whoever sins is a slave of sin. Do you believe that? Is that in your bible? Look it up...

The wages of sin IS death. Sin has not gotten LESS sinful because of Jesus...quite the opposite.

Paul also says.... Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.


Are you not claiming to be justified by Christ? Do you realize that you will be judged by your words and your deeds?

Notice in the passage you gave, These people went to God and tried to use their works as a means of why God should let them in. What did Jesus say. Depart you who practice sin.

Practicing lawlessness means they don't take sin seriously enough. It means they are looking to Jesus for salvation but their works are lawless. It's the doers of the law that are justified. There are so many unrighteous people that claim to be justified by their beliefs...bible believers? They twist the bible to make it conform to them.

You should make your LIFE conform to the bible...not the other way round.

they continue to practice sin because they were lost.

The ones who are lost are they who justify themselves IN their sins.

Jesus saves us FROM our sins....not in our sins.

So you have made the wrong call.

We are only deemed lawless when we claim to be justified...and we still sin....like the ones who will say Lord Lord.

 

[marks]

he died for the penalty. because if he did not. We would all end up in Hell

how many times do I have to post that the penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

Jesus told us how.. The law of love

Paul told us how. seek after the things of the spirit

But if your not born again, Not saved, Not adopted as Gods son, Not made alive in him. All the work you do to stop sin will get you zero credit in heaven.

Because you emained dead and condemned due to unbelief

We are to deny the flesh - put off the old man - and live according to the Spirit in our communion with God - put on the new man.

We are to be believing that God has freed us from sin, so that when we experience contrary things, we know we are able to respond in the Godly way. Generally speaking by enduring what is contrary while continuing in our good path, knowing God is doing what is right and best for us.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your bible says "practice" sin? That word is added in. There is no "practice" sin. That is religious mumbo-jumbo. And besides even the worst translations say.... "does NOT sin". Read that passage more carefully.

Jesus says...whoever sins is a slave of sin. Do you believe that? Is that in your bible? Look it up...

The wages of sin IS death. Sin has not gotten LESS sinful because of Jesus...quite the opposite.

your reading an english translation. Read in the greek. It does not say they will never commit a sin again. John would be contradicting himself. as he said if we say we have no sin we are decieved

Paul also says.... Gal. 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.


Are you not claiming to be justified by Christ? Do you realize that you will be judged by your words and your deeds?

are you sinless?? Do you live up to the standard you are here trying to tell me I must live up to?

Practicing lawlessness means they don't take sin seriously enough. It means they are looking to Jesus for salvation but their works are lawless. It's the doers of the law that are justified. There are so many unrighteous people that claim to be justified by their beliefs...bible believers? They twist the bible to make it conform to them.

lol.. They did all these great works in Jesus name

The practiced lawlessness because they were unbelievers.

A child of God does not practice lawlessness..

You should make your LIFE conform to the bible...not the other way round.

The ones who are lost are they who justify themselves IN their sins.

Jesus saves us FROM our sins....not in our sins.

So you have made the wrong call.

We are only deemed lawless when we claim to be justified...and we still sin....like the ones who will say Lord Lord.

Jesus said whoever believes is not condemned

whoever does not believe is condemned already


The penalty of sin is death. the gift of God is life..


I pray you will one day read this and let it synch in. that you are dead, unless you have kept the law from birth. Only christ has done that.. the rest of us have sinned and fall short..

we need to be justified freely by grace..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are to deny the flesh - put off the old man - and live according to the Spirit in our communion with God - put on the new man.

We are to be believing that God has freed us from sin, so that when we experience contrary things, we know we are able to respond in the Godly way. Generally speaking by enduring what is contrary while continuing in our good path, knowing God is doing what is right and best for us.

Much love!

yes, we as adopted children of God

But if we sare not yet adopted. Not yet justified. not yet given eternal life.

we have no new man to put on..

 

[Episkopos]

he died for the penalty. because if he did not. We would all end up in Hell

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just believers. So then no one goes to hell... actually the lake of fire?

how many times do I have to post that the penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

But you are deciding that death is for others (unless you are a universalist) and life is for you. How do you come up with that?

If you received the gift of life...is that life also sinful?

Jesus told us how.. The law of love

You are so against human effort..yet love IS a human effort. You claim I'm self-righteous because I love and try helping...and you claim to be already saved no matter what...and then you say you care about trying to help others? That's a human work.

So which is it. Are we to try obeying the commandments or not? Be honest.

Paul told us how. seek after the things of the spirit

This is getting weirder and weirder. That's what I teach...you teach that you are not responsible...or now you say...or then you say...what are you saying! ?

But if your not born again, Not saved, Not adopted as Gods son, Not made alive in him. All the work you do to stop sin will get you zero credit in heaven.

Because you emained dead and condemned due to unbelief

You mean non-religious? Or having the faith that makes you walk like Jesus without sin?

or being simple and righteous, doing your best and NOT claiming to be justified by Jesus or else you would be just like the Pharisees who also claimed to be righteous?

You have to untangle your muddle here...to be taken seriously.

 

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yes, we as adopted children of God

Both adopted and natural born, as it were.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

I am responding to the arrogance I see in modern believers to claim the good verses for themselves and consign those who don't agree with them to the flames.

It's all based on a religious human certainty.

What you never hear about is "hope." It's always about certainty of religious beliefs. Like the Pharisees had.

On judgment day...imagine there are two lineups. Line 1 says "Those who are justified by Christ"

And line 2 says : "Those who HOPE to be justified by Christ"

On this forum I meet so many who claim line 1 for themselves. But that is the line that is meant to catch the Pharisees and all who justify themselves.

I am a line 2 person...having learned the fear of the Lord and some humility. I throw myself on God's mercy. I have learned how righteousness works.

And note this. "those who have this hope purify themselves" IOW....those who rely on religious certainty, rather than hope, remain filthy in their false claims.

So we are to be purified from all lies and false assurances based on arrogance and turn to God in humility, beseeching Him for His mercy.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world...not just believers. So then no one goes to hell... actually the lake of fire?

what bible do you read?

For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son THAT WHOEVER believes in him shall never perish but has eternal life?

But you are deciding that death is for others (unless you are a universalist) and life is for you. How do you come up with that?

If you received the gift of life...is that life also sinful?

No God decides

whoever believes is not condemned,

who ever does nto believe is condemned already

the penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life

You will get it one day

You are so against human effort..yet love IS a human effort. You claim I'm self-righteous because I love and try helping...and you claim to be already saved no matter what...and then you say you care about trying to help others? That's a human work.

So which is it. Are we to try obeying the commandments or not? Be honest.

This is getting weirder and weirder. That's what I teach...you teach that you are not responsible...or now you say...or then you say...what are you saying! ?

I am against people trying to save themselves. I am against people ho reject the cross s a means of eternal life. I am against people who act more like jews then they do bible believing christians.

You mean non-religious? Or having the faith that makes you walk like Jesus without sin?

or being simple and righteous, doing your best and NOT claiming to be justified by Jesus or else you would be just like the Pharisees who also claimed to be righteous?

You have to untangle your muddle here...to be taken seriously.

I could do my best, it will still fall short..

When will you realize that? Do you know if you met God face to face today how sinful you would realised you are?

 

[Laurina]

It is because you say "I see" that you remain the same.

Exactly! I have walked in Zion with Christ...for extended periods. He is a giver of life and power...power to walk as He walked as one abides IN Him. This available walk is the greatest kept secret in the world.

I am the same

saved
child of God
Adopted
Redeemed by his blood
Justified
Sanctified
given an inheritance that will not fade away
Made joint heirs with Christ
sealed by the Holy Spirit
Have the promise I will never die, never hunger, never thirst, live forever. and be raised on the lkast day.

Not because I am worthy. I am unworthy.. But because God is a God of love.. he loved so much he sent his son, to die for me.

@Eternally Grateful, this is your reply to Episkopos in post #119. Can you please explain what you meant by "I am the same".... was that to his statement, "It is because you say 'I see' that you remain the same", or have you also walked in Zion as Episkopos says he has?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful, this is your reply to Episkopos in post #119. Can you please explain what you meant by "I am the same".... was that to his statement, "It is because you say 'I see' that you remain the same", or have you also walked in Zion as Episkopos says he has?

It means my status as Gods child has not changed. The inheritance I was given remains mine. all of those things I mentioned ar the most important things we will ever get. It is what gives us security and the means for us growing spiritually.

in other words.. In christ i am the same

as far as my christian growth and sanctification. Well no. I am not the same.. As paul said, i continue to run the race.. Not to be saved, But to bear fruit draw others to God.

walking in zion? The jews walked in zion. sadly when their messiah came, they rejected him, because he did not tell them what they wanted to hear.. They did not think they needed a savior.