The Holy Sacrament is Spiritual

[Episkopos]

I pray you look to the cross more. the cross is your only hope. The penalty of sin is death.. The only way to spend eternity in heave is to have that penalty removed..

The penalty removed??? No overcoming grace? No power over sin? The wages of sin is now life???? Plainly ridiculous and unbiblical. The wages of sin is still death. Grace overcomes sin...so the truth is upheld instead of twisted into a pretzel. All this pretend righteousness to justify the carnal religious outer man.

Here is the crux of the matter. What is being accepted as truth is that God doesn't see the sins of believers the same way He sees sins of unbelievers. It's the only way to see a gospel that doesn't provide power over sin. But that's not the gospel. Sin is sin. God is NOT a respecter of persons.

The gospel doesn't take away the penalty for sins...it takes away the sin of the world. It takes away the POWER of sin through grace...which gives us the power over sin...to walk as Jesus walked.

How can that be so misunderstood is beyond me.

The New Covenant is not about God finally giving up on His judgments. It's about power. The power to walk as Jesus walked. Is that the flesh? No it is victory over the flesh through the Spirit.

The lies being told about my defense of the gospel...is that I am the one defending the flesh, is exactly backward. Whereas it is the ones who don't have faith in the power of God through grace to OVERCOME the power of sin by another higher power....these are the ones who are defending the flesh...as if the flesh was all-powerful. There is no faith in God in that scheme...just a hope that God won't SEE their sins.

God is all powerful, and through grace we are given HIS power to walk as Jesus walked.

Now all you need is to believe the gospel.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here is the crux of the matter. What is being accepted as truth is that God doesn't see the sins of believers the same way He sees sins of believers. It's the only way to see a gospel that doesn't provide power over sin. But that's not the gospel.

what???????

The gospel doesn't take away the penalty for sins...it takes away the sin of the world. It takes away the POWER of sin through grace...which gives us the power over sin...to walk as Jesus walked.

then what hope is there? The penalty of sin is death. If we are left dead. then there is no hope?

You offer no one hope..

How can that be so misunderstood is beyond me.

The New Covenant is not about God finally giving up on His judgments. It's about power. The power to walk as Jesus walked. Is that the flesh? No it is victory through the Spirit.

The lies being told about my defense of the gospel...is that I am the one defending the flesh, is exactly backward. Whereas it is the ones who don't have faith in the power of God through grace to OVERCOME the power of sin by another higher power....these are the ones who are defending the flesh...as if the flesh was all-powerful. There is no faith in God in that scheme...just a hope that God won't SEE your sins.

God is all powerful, and through grace we are given HIS power to walk as Jesus walked.

Now all you need is to believe the gospel.

You do not understand grace. your trying to earn it. And you know nothing about the gospel. Your gospel leaves people dead in their sin..

The OT sacrifice system showed what had to be done to pay for sin, on the day of atonement the lamb was slaughters and the sin of the past year was removed, forgiven. redeemed

That is what the cross did. the lamb of God who takes away of the sin of the world.. Now according to you. Jesus did not do that?? He died for nothing?

In the hope of eternal life. which God who can not lie.; promised before time began.


You offer no hope. only hope in self..

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I am saved my friend, I was saved over 40 years ago.

We know. Some of us have listened to you for over a decade speaking about how saved you are. I’ve never even run across you talking about anything else actually, just how saved you are and how this man encourages people to lean on their own strength and abilities, which is the exact opposite of “go to God for the power/grace to overcome,” which is EXACTLY what he teaches.

 

[Episkopos]

sadly she has fallen for his gospel of works.. Even after showing step by step how he is preaching works. they both deny it. and twist it to make it appear they are not teaching works..

Grace is the power of God given to us so that we can overcome sin, the devil and the world.

Please stop with the false representation of myself AND the gospel.

Grace is the power to OVERCOME sin as Jesus also overcame.

Please read the Bible and stop your twisting the words of the bible.

Revelation 3:21​

“To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”

IS God turning a blind eye to our corruption? NO....He gives us the power to overcome as Jesus did.

Ask yourself....what does Jesus mean by us overcoming as He did? Are you saying that Jesus sinned like us and also needed to be saved from the penalty of His sins? What are you playing at?

 

[Episkopos]

We know. Some of us have listened to you for over a decade speaking about how saved you are. I’ve never even run across you talking about anything else actually, just how saved you are and how this man encourages people to lean on their own strength and abilities, which is the exact opposite of “go to God for the power/grace to overcome,” which is EXACTLY what he teaches.

40 years is a long time to be in error concerning the gospel...and be that MUCH in error. At one point there is a hanging onto the error since the realization of that immensity of the error becomes more and more difficult to take in.

It's not to late to repent as long as we are still alive and kicking.....but not if we are kicking against the goads.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Grace is the power of God given to us that overcomes sin, the devil and the world.

Please stop with the false representation of myself AND the gospel.

you have thoroughly proved what I say about you in out conversation the past few days. You can't sit there and say I am misrepresenting you when you have confirmed everything I have said.

Grace is the power to OVERCOME sin as Jesus also overcame.

first and formost. Grace is the means by which we have been saved.. A fact you deny.. You have people still dead in sin walking around trying to walk like christ. it does not work that way.

Please read the Bible and stop your twisting the words of the bible.

Revelation 3:21​

“To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”

IS God turning a blind eye to our corruption? NO....He gives us the power to overcome as Jesus did.

Ask yourself....what does Jesus mean by us overcoming as He did? Are you saying that Jesus sinned like us and also needed to be saved from the penalty of His sins? What are you playing at?

we have different bibles.

My bible speaks of Gods love and mercy and longsuffering

Your bible speaks of how good you are puffing yourself up and maybe just maybe you wilol get to heaven.

Thats really no different than the jews. You put people back under law. The sad things is, you keep them cursed by the law, because you say Christ did not remove that curse from them. He left them to rely on themselves

 

[Eternally Grateful]

40 years is a long time to be in error concerning the gospel...and be that MUCH in error. At one point there is a hanging onto the error since the realization of that immensity of the error becomes more and more difficult to take in.

It's not to late to repent as long as we are still alive and kicking.....but not if we are kicking against the goads.

so when are you going to repent?

You still think you are good enough? you have not become poor in spirit.. You like the pharisee and not the tax collector.

Don't come talk to me about repenting, until you have shown you have repented..

It is sad you are taking her down with you.. sadder yet that she buys into your works self righteous gospel

 

[Episkopos]

Hey @marks ...in all honesty, do you agree with @Eternally Grateful on her idea that we are saved only from the Penalty of sin? And even to consider any sort of victory over sin...even by the Spirit...is just a gospel of works and self-righteousness?

Is that why there is so much silence ...when I defend the power of the gospel?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I’m furiously examining tactics right now. I’m trying to make out if it’s more like pyramid scheme or closer to MLM…
No wait, it has to be closer to MLM because it offers at least SOME sort of “product.” I’ll have to think on it more but…yeah, it’s got at least a bone or two of multi-level marketing. Its a spiritual multi-level marketing scheme to cheat death…and he even gave it away a little by saying, how he gets a “following” is beyond me.

But then again, it’s more like a spiritual pyramid scheme because you’ve only FOOLED others into believing there is a product. The product doesn’t REALLY exist.…
Hmm, I’ll think on it some more.

 

[Episkopos]

I’m furiously examining tactics right now. I’m trying to make out if it’s more like pyramid scheme or closer to MLM…
No wait, it has to be closer to MLM because it offers at least SOME sort of “product.” I’ll have to think on it more but…yeah, it’s got at least a bone or two of multi-level marketing. Its a spiritual multi-level marketing scheme to cheat death…and he even gave it away a little by saying, how he gets a “following” is beyond me.

But then again, it’s more like a spiritual pyramid scheme because you’ve only FOOLED others into believing there is a product. The product doesn’t REALLY exist.…
Hmm, I’ll think on it some more.

A Babylon scheme perhaps?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

she buys into your works self righteous gospel

You keep saying that! It’s amazing.

A Babylon scheme perhaps?

Hey guys, let’s make a name for ourselves and build our way up into heaven…

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hey @marks ...in all honesty, do you agree with @Eternally Grateful on her idea that we are saved only from the Penalty of sin? And even to consider any sort of victory over sin...even by the Spirit...is just a gospel of works and self-righteousness?

Is that why there is so much silence ...when I defend the power of the gospel?

This is not what eternally grateful says or believes.

You need to stop trying to interpret people the same way you interpret the word

We are saved from the penalty of sin. That is the ONLY reason we are made alive in christ, justified.

We are also saved from the power of sin.. As it is God who sanctifies us by growing us to be like him.

Self righteous gospel is a gospel that says our eternal salvation is based on how good we are or the works we do. It has been thoroughly proven that is what you teach.

I recommend you start studying the word. and stop trying to think you know what others are saying. You have failed in both

 

[stunnedbygrace]

At a certain point you just gotta shake your head and get up and go do something more productive, like make a sandwich.

 

[Episkopos]

This is not what eternally grateful says or believes.

You need to stop trying to interpret people the same way you interpret the word

We are saved from the penalty of sin. That is the ONLY reason we are made alive in christ, justified.

That's exactly what I quoted you as saying...that you are saved from the penalty of sin. (This is laughable. )

We are also saved from the power of sin.. As it is God who sanctifies us by growing us to be like him.

Isn't that exactly what you said is wrong? Saved by YOUR efforts at doing better? Growing us? Into holiness? Maybe you do have a different bible. What does it say on the cover?

Do you realize that the way you are doing it...by your own efforts...you will NEVER be saved from the power of sin. But you have to TRY! Human effort?

God doesn't sanctify someone progressively. Neither does He crucify us a finger or toe at a time.

Holiness is to be translated into His presence. He alone is holy.

Crucified is to be dead to sin and the power of sin...in an instant....by the power of the cross. Paul said...I no longer live...and not...I'm only partially dead. I'm thinking here of the Princess Bride movie where the main character isn't dead...just nearly dead.

Self righteous gospel is a gospel that says our eternal salvation is based on how good we are or the works we do. It has been thoroughly proven that is what you teach.

Not so. Maybe you are unable to read the word 'power"??? When you see that word it shows up as a blank?

Your idea takes all responsibility for our actions away. So then your gospel is irresponsible. It is lawless...you see the law as something you can ignore. This video fits in well here.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That's exactly what I quoted you as saying...that you are saved from the penalty of sin. (This is laughable. )

I think it’s fear and panic Epi. I really do. So it’s like…trying to save someone drowning but their panic at dying prohibits it. No matter how many times you scream at them to stop struggling, they can’t hear you. Panic overrides hearing and trusting another enough to cease striving.

 

[Episkopos]

The modern scheme of ignoring God's laws in a bid for self-justification based on religious beliefs comes with a warning from Jesus.

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The grace of God is given to us to fulfill the law not ignore it.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I think a lot of people read the above verse (if it is found in THEIR bible, as fulfilled in Jesus, thus abrogating any personal responsibility AND thus denying the power of the gospel to actually save us)

I wonder how many have bibles that don't have all the verses I cite?

 

[Episkopos]

I think it’s fear and panic Epi. I really do. So it’s like…trying to save someone drowning but their panic at dying prohibits it. No matter how many times you scream at them to stop struggling, they can’t hear you. Panic overrides hearing and trusting another enough to cease striving.

I see it as a smug religious self-assurance...based on years of dishonesty concerning the bible. AND that is re-enforced by a lot of bad teaching, propaganda and indoctrination by religious hucksters seeking to build up their franchises...to the point where no amount of proof...biblical proof, can be taken in to upset the religious tower of Babylon being built up in the mind.

A religion of blindness and oblivion. Truly, as Marx said...the opiate of the people.

But then there is the real thing that is being obscured, ignored and anathematized.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The modern scheme of ignoring God's laws in a bid for self-justification based on religious beliefs comes with a warning from Jesus.

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The grace of God is given to us to fulfill the law not ignore it.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I think a lot of people read the above verse (if it is found in THEIR bible, as fulfilled in Jesus, thus abrogating any personal responsibility AND thus denying the power of the gospel to actually save us)

I wonder how many have bibles that don't have all the verses I cite?

I’m convinced that if they could settle down enough to hear they could be helped.
Im also convinced that men walking in power would be heard by more. But then the killing would start too.

And then also, I think a big thing is that, not understanding righteousness makes them think you are saying - oh, I just had a wonderful idea…I’m going to collect it all and come back!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's exactly what I quoted you as saying...that you are saved from the penalty of sin. (This is laughable. )

so our eternal REDEMPTION AND JUSTIFICATION based on the cross is laughable?

Tell that to God

Isn't that exactly what you said is wrong? Saved by YOUR efforts at doing better? Growing us? Into holiness? Maybe you do have a different bible. What does it say on the cover?

Nope. Your the one who says we are saved by our efforts. Not me.. Once again you slander I would say based on ignorance. But you have been shows so many times in the past few years. You can not claim ignorance anymore.

Do you realize that the way you are doing it...by your own efforts...you will NEVER be saved from the power of sin. But you have to TRY! Human effort?

Nope. If I do it by my self effort I fail.. Thats why it is God who is at work in me, it is he who sanctified.

You want to take credit for your goodness. feel free. thats why it is called self righteousness.

God doesn't sanctify someone progressively. Neither does He crucify us a finger or toe at a time.

so God makes us perfect the moment we are saved?

Thats funny, How about the corinthain church who were still babes. needing fed milk. because they could not handle meat.

Holiness is to be translated into His presence. He alone is holy.

Crucified is to be dead to sin and the power of sin...in an instant....by the power of the cross. Paul said...I no longer live...and not...I'm only partially dead. I'm thinking here of the Princess Bride movie where the main character isn't dead...just nearly dead.

Your either dead or alive

There is no partial death

The penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is life through jesus

Not so. Maybe you are unable to read the word 'power"??? When you see that word it shows up as a blank?
Your idea takes all responsibility for our actions away. So then your gospel is irresponsible. It is lawless...you see the law as something you can ignore. This video fits in well here.

God holds us responsible for our sin. He will chasten those who are his.. Maybe you do not understand this? Many even sleep because of their sin.

again, because of your pride. you have slandered what it is I believe.

one day you will have enough truth that can stand on its own. so you do not have to slander others to puff yourself up. I can pray for you. And really pray that people do not fall behind you into your false gospel of works. which denies the cross.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The modern scheme of ignoring God's laws in a bid for self-justification based on religious beliefs comes with a warning from Jesus.

And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

The grace of God is given to us to fulfill the law not ignore it.

Rom. 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I think a lot of people read the above verse (if it is found in THEIR bible, as fulfilled in Jesus, thus abrogating any personal responsibility AND thus denying the power of the gospel to actually save us)

I wonder how many have bibles that don't have all the verses I cite?

The apostle john says whoever lives in sin has neither known or seen God

Whoever has been born of God can not live in sin

Notice in the passage you gave, These people went to God and tried to use their works as a means of why God should let them in. What did Jesus say. Depart you who practice sin.

they continue to practice sin because they were lost.