The Holy Spirit

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Nomad

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You all dont get it do you, Jesus said it Himself,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

See what studying the bible has done, brought all these foolish arguements and bickering. . .

Studying the Bible hasn't caused this. More often than not it's the mishandling of the Scriptures or the ignorance thereof that's the problem. You, sir, are case in point, which you will see shortly.

As a matter of fact we are commanded to give due diligence to rightly dividing the word of truth Scripture--the very thing you disparage.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


. . .The written word cannot bring you life. . .

Your own proof-text quoted above and here contradicts you.

Joh 5:39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,
Joh 5:40
yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

Jesus tells the Jews in John 5:39-40 that it's the Scriptures that bear witness about him and yet they refuse to come to him. If that were not enough. . .

Paul writing to Timothy:

2Ti 3:15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

The commendation of the Berean Jews:

Act 17:11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.


The written word is just that, an ink stain on a piece of paper that will fade in time, but Gods word which is spirit will never fail".

Wrong! See 2 Tim. 3:16 quoted above. I grow weary of quoting this painfully clear verse of Scripture. Also, what would you know about God's word if it were not for the Scriptures? We're told that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GOD BREATHED. Therefore, we are responsible for ALL that God has communicated to us through them. It's rebellious and sinful to say otherwise.

I'm truly shocked to see so many disparage the Scriptures so many times on a single message board. I truly hope message boards are not indicative of the overall health of the Church. If they are, we're headed for another dark ages.
 
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Nomad

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Actually, when someone enters Hell it is the end of God's mercy for that person.



There is so much I could post from Scripture on this topic. But Aspen, if the unambiguous teaching of Jesus in this single passage, quoted below, is not weighty enough for you, I'm simply not going to waste my time with one who makes Scripture conform to their own emotional preferences and rationalizations.

Pay close attention to verse 46. If the 'punishment' of the damned is not eternal, then neither is the 'life' of the righteous. In other words, if there is no 'eternal punishment' then there is no 'eternal life.' To explain away the former is to explain away the latter.

I'm posting verses 31 & 32 for the sake of context.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. . .

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."



Mercy ends where eternal punishment begins. I'm sorry you don't like that, but it is Biblical.
 

aspen

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There is so much I could post from Scripture on this topic, but Aspen, if the unambiguous teaching of Jesus in this single passage is not weighty enough for you, I'm simply not going to waste my time with one who makes Scripture conform to their own emotional preferences and rationalizations.

Pay close attention to verse 46. If the 'punishment' of the damned is not eternal, then neither is the 'life' of the righteous. In other words, if there is no 'eternal punishment' then there is no 'eternal life.' To explain away the former is to explain away the latter.

Mat 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. . .

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."






It is still a mercy.


[sup]Luke 6: 35[/sup] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [sup]36[/sup] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
 

TexUs

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See what studying the bible has done
So you're willing to go on record and say reading the Bible is detrimental to Christianity? LOL, nice try, but as Nomad points out... It's the mishandling of scripture.

Eternal PUNISHMENT is still mercy? You have a mighty strange view of mercy.
Yes, he does. I was going to warn you when you posted the bit about eternal punishment but he posted back too quick and now you see what I was going to warn you about.
He thinks hell is a greater compassion than the unredeemed being in the presence of God. LOL.
So... apparently, being scared is worse than being tortured. Thats a new one to... well.... everyone.
 

Nomad

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Yes, he does. I was going to warn you when you posted the bit about eternal punishment but he posted back too quick and now you see what I was going to warn you about.
He thinks hell is a greater compassion than the unredeemed being in the presence of God. LOL.
So... apparently, being scared is worse than being tortured. Thats a new one to... well.... everyone.

Yeah, I caught that in a previous post. Thanks.

Could you imagine telling people that when they find themselves in eternal punishment, wailing and gnashing their teeth, (Matt. 13:42) they should remember that God is showing them mercy?
 

amadeus

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Scriptures speaks more clearly about 7 spirits than about 7 heavens.

The 7 spirits of God are mentioned in Revelation [Rev 1:4, Rev 3:1, Rev 4:5, Rev 5:6] and perhaps identified in Isaiah 11:2 as:
1) the Spirit of the Lord,
2) the Spirit of wisdom,
3) the Spirit of understanding,
4) the Spirit of counsel,
5) the Spirit of might,
6) the Spirit of knowledge, and
7) the fear of the Lord

As to heavens, consider the following verse:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

Jesus was seemingly speaking of more than one heaven. The one He came down from would have been the 3rd heaven where He was before His natural birth in Bethlehem. Yet, while here among us Jesus was also still in heaven, this is a heaven where we can also be, is it not?

Consider the following:

The ark of Noah had three levels and the creatures on all three levels were saved from the flood waters. The unclean beasts were on the bottom. The clean beasts were on the 2nd level and Noah along with 7 members of his family were on the top. Some of all three types were “saved” from the destruction of the flood.

The Israelites were not allowed to eat of "unclean beasts" at all because the cost of eating them was greater than the cost of going hungry. In other words, the net value of eating them was NOTHING or less than nothing. [Their words and actions produce no good fruit, but evil fruit only.] All the fruits of an unclean beast are filthy rags and good for nothing in the eyes of God.

But it is when we were as beasts that were not clean that most of us first were drawn to God. We were “saved”, but until He worked on us we remained unclean.

First heaven, if you will, would be the lowest level at which God deals with man. It would correspond to the lowest level of the Ark built by Noah.

The natural children of Israel in the wilderness wandered back and forth between their own ways of confusion and God’s Way of order. They were continuously in need of repentance and God’s mercy even though He had saved all of them from slavery in Egypt. Most of them in the end did not make it into the promised land. Only two adults [above the age of 20…see Numbers 32:11-12] who came out of Egypt also made it into the promised land: Joshua and Caleb. Instead of going back to the tabernacle with the proper sacrifice, most of the people went to golden calves; or the gods of the heathen people in the lands; or they looked back with longing to Egypt [their own vomit - II Peter 2:22].

Similarly, today we are too often like yo-yo’s bouncing back and forth between God’s Way and our own ways.

We have heard it said that “we are what we eat” in reference to the consumption of natural foods. When we first are drawn from the depths of sin we are like those unclean beasts because of what have been eating spiritually. We need to have our filth cleaned out [Matt 12:43-44] and we need to eat of His 12 fruits [Rev 22:2] and His 7 spirits [Rev 3:1, Rev 5:6, Isa. 11:2]. The unclean beast of man [Eccl 3:18-21] continues to eat spiritual garbage until (and if) it learns the difference between good and evil food and drink and nourishes itself properly [John 6:35]. If it eats garbage after being cleansed it will again become filthy once again [Matt 12:45] only worse.

Second heaven is where God continues to deal with man's beastly nature through the gift of His Spirit and would correspond to the second or middle level of the Ark which Noah built. Men who enter here have been cleaned up and thus are 'clean beasts', but still beasts since their “old man” [Eph 4:22-23] is still seeking the dominion.

When the filth, which is a part of us is being removed and as we are beginning to serve Him (eating & drinking properly) then His fruits [partial listing in Gal 5:22-23] will begin to grow in us. Then will we be able to provide the proper nourishment of the things of God to others as well. Yet, the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and the pride of life [I John 2:16] still assail us. As we continue to partake of the evil food and drink, in any measure, so also in that measure the fruit, which we bear is still our own [Gal 5:19-21]and is thus poisonous to God's people.

When we are “clean beasts" our evil fruits have been removed, but our beastly nature, which is drawn to sin remains. “Clean beasts” have a mixture of edible and inedible parts. The Israelites were not allowed to eat all of every single part of even clean beasts [Lev 3:4 & 17]. This is why when we read a writing (such this one) or hear a preacher preach we need to sift through it carefully so as not eat unnecessarily any poisonous thing. But if we do at times, we must remember also these words: “…and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them…” Mark 16:18

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:” Prov 9:1 [Would these pillars not be the 7 Spirits of God?]

“She hath KILLED her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2 [She killed the source of evil within us which are the remains of our “old man”, the “unclean beast” . She mixed the Word of God with the Spirit of God to bring it to Life in us. She put before us a table of nourishing food and drink (the Word and the Spirit).

Third heaven corresponds to the highest level of the Ark which Noah built. The beastly natures of men must be dead in order to enter here. No sin and no ways of man are allowed within.

When all of the fruits of our beast are gone and our beast nature itself is gone then and only then will we be ready to enter the 3rd heaven where the Father dwells (as He dwelt in the most holy place between the cherubims [II Sam 6:2]in the tabernacle in the wilderness. Before that our filthy inner parts and our filthy outer parts would cause us to be consumed by the consuming fire which God is...if we were to approach His throne...

The three levels or heavens are pictured then in the three levels of Ark of Noah but also in the three levels of the tabernacle in the wilderness.

The veil to the most holy place or the holiest of holies was rent when Jesus died [Matt 27:50-51], but we still cannot enter in there without being properly cleansed [Acts 2:38] and attired [Matt 22:11-13, Eph 6:14-17].

Everyone that comes to Christ can enter the 1st level [outer court] of the tabernacle (in order to repent and receive and be received of Him), but only priests with the proper garments [Exodus 28] can enter the 2nd level [holy place]. Prior to sacrifice of Jesus no one could enter the real 3rd level [most holy place or holiest of holies] and live.

The natural high priest once a year entered the most holy place (3rd level) a shadow 3rd heaven in the tabernacle in the wilderness. Even Moses was not to actually able enter in where he would have been able to look on the face of God [Ex. 33:20].

Jesus is the Way in... but obviously, to me anyway, not everyone who comes to Him is immediately ready for third heaven.



 

TexUs

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Could you imagine telling people that when they find themselves in eternal punishment, wailing and gnashing their teeth, (Matt. 13:42) they should remember that God is showing them mercy?
I'm sure there's some Roman Catholic Addition And Subtraction To The Bible somewhere that deals with this.

Either that or this most be one of those portions where people must've changed God's word and so we ignore it.
 

WhiteKnuckle

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One of the Old Testament events about The Holy Spirit I've found interesting is of how God gave king Saul His Spirit in 1 Samuel 10, and then later took His Spirit away from Saul and instead gave Saul an evil spirit in 1 Samuel 16, after having anointed David. In Psalms 51 David prayed that God would not take away His Holy Spirit from him. King Saul had disobeyed God's commandments and direction through His prophet Samuel. Saul imparted his own will over God's will more than once. So I think if God gives us The Holy Spirit Comforter, but we continually disobey, He will then take it away, and might even replace It with something else if we remain disobedient against Him.

I think it's almost impossible or infact is impossible for someone to go that far. Jesus said he would never forsake us. If we turn from him, I'm certain he brings us back.

Through all the stupid stuff I've done in my life, I don't believe the Holy Spirit has ever left me, and I don't believe He will. I'm thankfull for that. We're also reminded that He who has started a work in us will not stop until it's fininished. If I need to I'll find the scriptures to support my theory.
 

TexUs

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Doesn't God taking the HS away fit parallel with the way Paul describes church discipline?
Veteran might be on to something.
 

aspen

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So you're willing to go on record and say reading the Bible is detrimental to Christianity? LOL, nice try, but as Nomad points out... It's the mishandling of scripture.

It is not the study of the Bible that is the problem - it is trying to reduce the meaning down to the finest point, in classic fundamentalist fashion that is the problem. Anything reduced to it's finest point loses all meaning - it is like trying to grab sand with your hands.


Yes, he does. I was going to warn you when you posted the bit about eternal punishment but he posted back too quick and now you see what I was going to warn you about.
He thinks hell is a greater compassion than the unredeemed being in the presence of God. LOL.
So... apparently, being scared is worse than being tortured. Thats a new one to... well.... everyone.

Nothing wrong with siding on the side of God's mercy - I noticed that both of you ignored Luke 6:34-36




Yeah, I caught that in a previous post. Thanks.

Could you imagine telling people that when they find themselves in eternal punishment, wailing and gnashing their teeth, (Matt. 13:42) they should remember that God is showing them mercy?


Absolutely.


Can you imagine telling people that because they refused to believe the specific doctrine of a God that is infinitely larger than them that they will now be burning in Hell for eternity? It is about as effective and justified as spanking infants.


 

amadeus

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I think it's almost impossible or infact is impossible for someone to go that far. Jesus said he would never forsake us. If we turn from him, I'm certain he brings us back.

You're right that Jesus will never forsake us, but too many of us will forsake Him and there is a point of no return. There is a limit to God's mercy toward an individual. We see the shadow of our limit in the natural children of Israel who after 10 rebellions were denied access to the promised land. How many times will God forgive us? Jesus spoke of us forgiving those who have offended us 7 times 70 times. I know that God has forgiven me and taken me back when I have repented more times than 490. Still the limit is not something I would ever want to know for me. I certainly never want to experience it.

Remember that God never changes, so if there was a limit for Saul, if there was limit for Israel in the wilderness, there is also a limit for us. It is best not to tempt God!

Whiteknuckle: Through all the stupid stuff I've done in my life, I don't believe the Holy Spirit has ever left me, and I don't believe He will. I'm thankfull for that. We're also reminded that He who has started a work in us will not stop until it's fininished. If I need to I'll find the scriptures to support my theory.

The Spirit we have received will not stop working in us, unless and until we put a stop to it. God gave each of us the power to choose Him or not. This ability was not set aside when we received His Spirit anew. Did not Adam and Eve also receive the Spirit of God, which was Life to them, but they set it aside in favor of death? That choice will remain ours, at least, unitl we have finished our course in Him... if we do.
 

Rach1370

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You all dont get it do you, Jesus said it Himself,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

See what studying the bible has done, brought all these foolish arguements and bickering, What is it hat Christ has to do, to get your attention, was it not enough that He die on the cross for you all, was it not enought that He gaves us the Holy Spirit to teach us and gude us into the truth, that you have to believe that God would give us a book so we could study it then spend our lives destroying one another with words, how stupid do we think God is. The written word cannot bring you life, ony Jesus can, and as long as you keep yourself from Him you will; never grow. I can never deny the word for Jesus is Gods word, and as He says, " the words thta I SPEAK they are spirit and they are life, The written word is just that, an ink stain on a piece of paper that will fade in time, but Gods word which is spirit will never fail".

In His Love

Are you perhaps thinking that some Christians go as far as to worship the bible? Because I agree that is totally misplaced. However, the the Bible is the Word of God, things that God Himself has revealed to us....how can that be something we just leave on the shelf??
I see it a bit like this. We, as people, do not save others, but the Holy Spirit works through us to that end. We speak the gospel to others and God uses that to make others believers. I see the scriptures as the same. God does the saving, the relationship is between us and our Trinitarian God, which we grow in day by day. But the bible is what has passed the message of salvation along through the generations. It is a point of reference when differences arise. We can just go to the word of God. Because you cannot deny that not everyone who is convinced they are being lead by the Holy Spirit is actually being done so. There are many spirits, and even today we see too many wolves leading sheep astray.
And the bible itself tells us that that is what scripture is for; to learn of God and of what He requires of us.

[Paul and Silas in Berea]
[10] The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. [11] Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
(Acts 17:10; Acts 17:11 ESV)


[16] All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
(2 Timothy 3:16 ESV)


Now, quite probably you could dismiss this, as its from the bible, which we aren't supposed to read, by your account. And to that I would reply....beware brother, that in relying solely on the 'spirit teaching you within' that the wrong spirit doesn't sneak in. The only way you can know for sure it's the right Spirit, is by checking it against Gods own word to us.
 

veteran

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You're right that Jesus will never forsake us, but too many of us will forsake Him and there is a point of no return. There is a limit to God's mercy toward an individual. We see the shadow of our limit in the natural children of Israel who after 10 rebellions were denied access to the promised land. How many times will God forgive us? Jesus spoke of us forgiving those who have offended us 7 times 70 times. I know that God has forgiven me and taken me back when I have repented more times than 490. Still the limit is not something I would ever want to know for me. I certainly never want to experience it.

Remember that God never changes, so if there was a limit for Saul, if there was limit for Israel in the wilderness, there is also a limit for us. It is best not to tempt God!



The Spirit we have received will not stop working in us, unless and until we put a stop to it. God gave each of us the power to choose Him or not. This ability was not set aside when we received His Spirit anew. Did not Adam and Eve also receive the Spirit of God, which was Life to them, but they set it aside in favor of death? That choice will remain ours, at least, unitl we have finished our course in Him... if we do.


I think amadeus got the point I was trying to make.

 

Thankful 1

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Are you perhaps thinking that some Christians go as far as to worship the bible? Because I agree that is totally misplaced. However, the the Bible is the Word of God, things that God Himself has revealed to us....how can that be something we just leave on the shelf??
I see it a bit like this. We, as people, do not save others, but the Holy Spirit works through us to that end. We speak the gospel to others and God uses that to make others believers. I see the scriptures as the same. God does the saving, the relationship is between us and our Trinitarian God, which we grow in day by day. But the bible is what has passed the message of salvation along through the generations. It is a point of reference when differences arise. We can just go to the word of God. Because you cannot deny that not everyone who is convinced they are being lead by the Holy Spirit is actually being done so. There are many spirits, and even today we see too many wolves leading sheep astray.
And the bible itself tells us that that is what scripture is for; to learn of God and of what He requires of us.

[Paul and Silas in Berea]
[10] The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. [11] Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
(Acts 17:10; Acts 17:11 ESV)


[16] All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
(2 Timothy 3:16 ESV)


Now, quite probably you could dismiss this, as its from the bible, which we aren't supposed to read, by your account. And to that I would reply....beware brother, that in relying solely on the 'spirit teaching you within' that the wrong spirit doesn't sneak in. The only way you can know for sure it's the right Spirit, is by checking it against Gods own word to us.
I disagree that the bible is the only way one can know if a teaching is from God or not.



The bible was not assembled for many years after Jesus ascended into Heaven.



The fruits of one’s teachings will let us know if one is following God or not.



Jesus personally told me to get more into the written Word, but I had been following him for over a year before he had me read the Word.



There is a peace that comes with following the Holy Spirit. A peace that is not present when evil is around.



I have found that the bible can be a negative to one’s growth toward God. People have twisted, watered down the Word of God to where it has become very misleading.



Example: Jesus told me that we were not to hurt/harm anyone for any reason.



The bible says: (Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.” But man has twisted that Word so as to allow man to kill?
 

veteran

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You all dont get it do you, Jesus said it Himself,

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


That is ignorant misuse of Bible Scripture.

Jesus was speaking that in John 5 to the blind scribes and Pharisees who were using God's Holy Writ as a method of gain for themselves. That does NOT APPLY TO US CHRISTIANS, unless we too try to use God's Holy Writ as MEANS FOR PERSONAL GAIN (i.e., like what the Pharisees did, themselves desiring honor, the high seats at feasts, etc., which is all men's vanity.)

INSTEAD, HERE'S HOW CHRISTIANS ARE TO APPROACH GOD'S HOLY WRIT IN THEIR LIVES...

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(KJV)

2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

Not staying in God's written Word can lead a believer to falseness and shame. Apostle Paul commended those at Berea when they opened up their copies of Holy Writ to check Paul's preaching from God's Word. Paul was very pleased at them doing that. How many of you are doing that?
 

Thankful 1

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That is ignorant misuse of Bible Scripture.

Jesus was speaking that in John 5 to the blind scribes and Pharisees who were using God's Holy Writ as a method of gain for themselves. That does NOT APPLY TO US CHRISTIANS, unless we too try to use God's Holy Writ as MEANS FOR PERSONAL GAIN (i.e., like what the Pharisees did, themselves desiring honor, the high seats at feasts, etc., which is all men's vanity.)

INSTEAD, HERE'S HOW CHRISTIANS ARE TO APPROACH GOD'S HOLY WRIT IN THEIR LIVES...

2 Tim 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(KJV)

2 Tim 3:15-17
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
(KJV)

Not staying in God's written Word can lead a believer to falseness and shame. Apostle Paul commended those at Berea when they opened up their copies of Holy Writ to check Paul's preaching from God's Word. Paul was very pleased at them doing that. How many of you are doing that?




(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”
 

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I would not say that anyone works his way into hell.


A conspicuous absence of scripture always leads to errors in judgment, lies and immoral behaviour.

THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH.
Romans 6:23

Wages are the reward for work or the result of it.
One has to WORK for sin and the result of it is eternal separation/spiritual death.

The intent of the scripture here is to show that humans actively and purposely seek damnation.
It's called rebellion and sin.
A perfect example of it is the way posts on these pages deny God's righteous judgment and seek any and every way to justify themselves and their sin.

God opposes it, punishes it in the world and destroys it after death.
There is an opportunity provided to turn away from it and to be forgiven of it, but there is NEVER an excuse for it nor an allowance for it.
God does not wink at sin.
When a man vehemently pursues sin all his life and works at rejecting God's efforts at redemption and forgivness all his life he earns the reward he has so strenuously sought - HELL.

Hell is worse than prison or human perceptions of torture.
Hell is death; the loss of God and God's blessings including that which we call the self image.

There is no I in hell. The self is completely destroyed and lost.
That which is destroyed has NO opportunity to be restored. It is gone forever.
Earth is the place for second chances. Once earth is lost, so too is the opportunity for salvation lost.

Jesus said:"He who has found his life shall lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake, shall find it."
- Math 10:39

Those who profess otherwise are deceivers and liars. Their words are not of God, but of their father the devil.
Such fools deny the lesson of the cemetary.
Death is forever.
 
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