The Holy Trinity in 1 John 5:7

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
“ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες εν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος, καὶ τὸ Ἅγιον Πνεῦμα· καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσιν”

“For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one”

Since 1881 and the Revised Version, this verse reads: “οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες”, “For there are three that testify”. Which is continued in verse 8, “το πνευμα και το υδωρ και το αιμα και οι τρεις εις το εν εισιν”, “the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree in one”

It is generally argued, that because the textual evidence for this passage, especially in the Greek manuscripts, does not have the disputed words, that they do not belong to the Original Autograph of the Apostle John.

The accepted reading for verse 7, “οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες”, is a major problem with the Greek grammar. These words refer to the three witnesses in verse 8, “the Spirit and the water and the blood”. These nouns in the Greek are in the neuter gender. But the words, “τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες”, are in the masculine. Why is this? Some argue that this is used for “personification”, especially as the Holy Spirit is one of the Witnesses. This is incorrect. In verse 6, where John also mentions the “water, blood”, he then says, “And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is truth”. However, here John rightly writes, “το πνευμα εστιν το μαρτυρουν”, “the Spirit that bears Witness”, which is in the neuter gender. No one will doubt that the Person of the Holy Spirit is here meant, even though the neuter is used. This is because of the grammatical gender, that requires it. As Paul does in Romans 8:16, 26, “αυτο το πνευμα συμμαρτυρει”, literally, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with” (KJV), because of the neuter. Modern versions have rightly corrected this to, “The Spirit Himself bears witness with”. There is no reason whatsoever, for John to have written, “οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες”, using the masculine, when the neuter (τρια εισι τα μαρτυρουντα) would agree with the neuter nouns used, as he has already done in verse 6. Put back the disputed words, where we have the two nouns, “ὁ πατήρ, ὁ λόγος”, (the Father, the Word), in the masculine gender, this problem no longer exists! Even though we still have the neuter “το πνευμα” (the Spirit), the two masculine nouns govern the gender of the words, “τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες”. There can be no grammatical problems in the Holy Bible, as it is the Inspired, Inerrant, Word of God. The verse 7 as accepted by most versions, makes the Bible inconsistent with the rules of Greek grammar.

The Greek grammar problem continues in verse 8, with the reading, “και οι τρεις εις το εν εισιν”, “and the three agree in one”. How do we account for John’s use here, of the Greek definite article, “το”? It is clear here, that it is used retrospectively, which is for renewed mention. There is no problem when we read verse 7, “καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσιν”, (and these Three are one), where we have “ἕν” (one) used a previous time, and the article in verse 8, is referring back to this use in 7. However, when these words in verse 7 are removed, there is a distinct problem with the Greek, as it stands in verse 8. Bishop Thomas Middleton, in his excellent work on the Greek Article, had this to say on the article in verse 8;

“But the difficulty to which the present undertaking has directed my attention, is of another kind : it respects the Article in εις το εν in the final clause of the eighth verse : if the seventh verse had not been spurious, nothing could have been plainer than that το εν of verse 8, referred to hen of verse 7 : as the case now stands, I do not perceive the force or meaning of the Article” (The Doctrine of the Greek Article Applied to the Criticism and Illustration of the New Testament, page 441). Middleton did not accept verse 7 as genuine, but states the obvious difficulty in the Greek grammar, of verse 8, to which there is not answer, without the words in verse 7 restored.

It should be noted, by those who do not know Greek grammar, that, because the “το εν” in verse 8, refers back to that in verse 7, that their “meanings” do not have to be identical, as Dr Plummer argues in the Cambridge Greek Testament. As Dr Green says in his grammar on “renewed mention”, “Sometimes the reference is implicit, the second expression, bearing the article, being equivalent to the former, though not identical” (Handbook to The Grammar of The Greek Testament, page. 181).

Yet another problem exists in the Greek in verse 9, if we were to remove the words in verse 7.

“If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son” (KJV)

“η μαρτυρια του θεου ην μεμαρτυρηκεν περι του υιου αυτου” (the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son)

Here we have the relative pronoun, “ἥν” (which), as found in the Received Greek Text. This has been corrupted to the conjunction, “ὄτι”. The former reading is used by Tertullian in the early 3rd century, in the Latin, but Tertullian translated himself from the Greek text. Of the latter reading, B F Westcott, who prefers the reading with the conjunction, says, “The second ὅτι is ambiguous… No one of the explanations is without difficulty” (Commentary on 1 John). And, A T Robertson, says that this reading is, “a harsh construction” (Word Pictures). With the reading “ἥν”, this takes us back to the “αὕτη”, in the verse, “THIS is the Witness of God”, which is to the Heavenly Witnesses in verse 7. That the relative pronoun is the correct reading, is confirmed by verse 10, “He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that (ἥν) God gave of his Son”. The only Witnesses that God the Father has given, concerning Jesus Christ, is the Witness that we have in the words of verse 7. In verse 6 we have the Witness of the Holy Spirit, concerning Jesus Coming in the flesh, which is again confirmed in verses 7 and 8. Verses 9 and 10 speak of the Witness of the Father, both of which take us back to verse 7, where alone “The Father” is mentioned.

It is evident, that the internal evidence is very much supportive of the disputed words in verse 7, even though the external “evidence”, which has come down to us, may say otherwise.

We cannot also ignore the testimony of two very early Church fathers, Tertullian (A.D. 160-220) and Cyprian (died 258), both from the North African Latin Church, who also used the Greek Bible.

Tertullian, in his work “Against Praxeas”, writes:

“And so the connection of the Father, and the Son, and of the Paraclete makes three cohering Persons, one in the other, which three are one (qui tres unum sunt) [in substance ‘unum’, not ‘one’ in number, ‘unus’]; in the same manner which it was said, ‘I and the Father are one’, to denote the unity of substance, not the singularity of number” (Ad Prax. C.25).”

Cyprian, in his work, The Unity of the Church, also writes:

“The Lord said, I and the Father are one, and again of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, it is written: and these three are one” (V)

See the language of Cyprian here, “et iterum...scriptum est”, that is, “and again...it is written”. Both he and Tertullian connect John 10:30, “I and the Father We are one”, to their “unity” in 1 John 5:7.

The textual scholar, Dr Frederick Scrivener, had this to say on Cyprian’s quote:

“It is surely safer and more candid to admit that Cyprian read ver. 7 in his copies, than to resort to the explanation of Facundus [vi], that the holy Bishop was merely putting on ver.8 a spiritual meaning” (A Plain Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament, vol. II, p.405)
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
1 John 5:7 Versions

Wycliffe 1382

“For thre ben, that yyuen witnessing in heuene, the Fadir, the Sone, and the Hooli Goost; and these thre ben oon.”

Geneva 1560

“For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one”

Bishops 1568

“For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one”

Stephanus 1550

“οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν”

Luther 1545

“Denn drei sind, die da zeugen im Himmel: der Vater, das Wort und der Heilige Geist; und diese drei sind eins”

Douay-Rheims 1582

“For there be three which giue testimonie in heauen, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three be one”

Beza 1598

“οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν”

King James 1611

“For there are three that beare record in heauen, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one”

Elzevir 1624

“οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν”

Scrivener 1894

“οτι τρεις εισιν οι μαρτυρουντες εν τω ουρανω ο πατηρ ο λογος και το αγιον πνευμα και ουτοι οι τρεις εν εισιν”

Mace 1729

“There are three witnesses in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three testify the same thing”

Bengel 1742

“Denn drei sind, die da zeugen auf Erden: der Geist und das Wasser und das Blut; und diese drei machen Eines aus”

Wesley 1755

“And there are three that testify in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one”

Haweis 1795

“For they are three who bear witness in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these, even the three, are one”

Webster 1833

“For there are three that bear testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one”

Young 1898

“because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one”

Green 1993

“For there are three bearing witness in Heaven: the Father the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one”
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ronald David Bruno

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
62
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
No I could not understand... but that is ok... someone who loves to study will absolutely delight in the fact that someone took the
time to do this... People like you are needed... and people like me ( who must live in simplicity ) are also needed... it makes for a
balance... Blessings to you... If I need blood pressure reminders... I'll come looking for you... LOL
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
No I could not understand... but that is ok... someone who loves to study will absolutely delight in the fact that someone took the
time to do this... People like you are needed... and people like me ( who must live in simplicity ) are also needed... it makes for a
balance... Blessings to you... If I need blood pressure reminders... I'll come looking for you... LOL

The verse in the OP, is the clearest Teaching in the Bible, on the Doctrine of the Holy Trinity, where we have Three distinct Persons: The Father, The Word and The Holy Spirit, Who are "essentially One". Because of the importance of this verse, it was corrupted at a very early time by those who oppose/reject this Doctrine, as the Jehovah's Witnesses have tried to do in their translation of John 1:1, where they mistranslate the Greek, as "and the Word was a god". I have shown in the OP, that, even though the external textual evidence, as we have, is not that great in terms of Greek manuscripts, and the Ancient Versions; yet the internal Greek grammatical, is conclisive, that these missing words as in many modern versions, did from part of the Original Epistle of the Apostle John. Hope this helps. God bless...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
62
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
To my absolute shock this week... I discovered that some people identify as Christian... yet do not believe Jesus is God.
For me the Trinity is so easy to understand... ONE GOD in three persons. I don't have trouble understanding or believing that
Jesus is God... It just sits as truth in my understanding and in my spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
To my absolute shock this week... I discovered that some people identify as Christian... yet do not believe Jesus is God.
For me the Trinity is so easy to understand... ONE GOD in three persons. I don't have trouble understanding or believing that
Jesus is God... It just sits as truth in my understanding and in my spirit.

Indeed. this Great Truth is denied by quite a few who claim to be Christians and follow the Teachings of the Holy Bible. Some, like T D Jakes, deny the distinction of Persons in the Holy Trinity, and therefore teach a false God!

Jesus Himself says in John 8:24, "I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am you will die in your sins".

People will sadly die remaining in their sins, if they reject that Jesus Christ is the Great I AM, as God told Moses in Exodus 3:14, "I am that I am". A person cannot be saved who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, or the Father, or Holy Spirit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azim and Nancy

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
62
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
People will sadly die remaining in their sins, if they reject that Jesus Christ is the Great I AM, as God told Moses in Exodus 3:14, "I am that I am". A person cannot be saved who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, or the Father, or Holy Spirit.
My reaction was absolute SHOCK to be honest... I have never heard of this... I thought the very thing that defines a Christian is believing that Jesus is God... but apparently.... it is loosely defined as a follower of Jesus. Anyways... It's a strange world.. and people are believing strange things.
Have a good one.. It's getting to be normal hours... so I hope this post gets lots of attention. Be Blessed!!!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amazed@grace

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
My reaction was absolute SHOCK to be honest... I have never heard of this... I thought the very thing that defines a Christian is believing that Jesus is God... but apparently.... it is loosely defined as a follower of Jesus. Anyways... It's a strange world.. and people are believing strange things.
Have a good one.. It's getting to be normal hours... so I hope this post gets lots of attention. Be Blessed!!!!

have you heard of these?

What are the beliefs of Jesus only / oneness Pentecostals? | GotQuestions.org
 

Addy

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2020
4,288
4,467
113
62
Ontario
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I have not heard of this.. for a minute I thought it might be about the holiness movement which believes in sinless perfection...

The author of this article made an excellent point when he said... It is not a concept which is easily grasped by the finite mind ( meaning the trinity nature of God )... This is exactly the problem... People have this need to EXPLAIN everything to fit their understanding...

There are MANY things about God that is and remains a mystery... We are able to find the TRUTHS of WHO HE is by His declarations and promises to us... but we are not able to fully understand His NATURE. I am ok with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azim

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
I have not heard of this.. for a minute I thought it might be about the holiness movement which believes in sinless perfection...

The author of this article made an excellent point when he said... It is not a concept which is easily grasped by the finite mind ( meaning the trinity nature of God )... This is exactly the problem... People have this need to EXPLAIN everything to fit their understanding...

There are MANY things about God that is and remains a mystery... We are able to find the TRUTHS of WHO HE is by His declarations and promises to us... but we are not able to fully understand His NATURE. I am ok with that.

No human being can ever fathom the great depths of the God of the Holy Bible. Nor can we ever understand with our fallen, finite minds, the Incarnation of God, when Jesus Christ entered the womb of the virgin Mary, and born as a baby. And thereafter, the One Person, Who is 100% fully God, and 100% fully Man, except for any sin; the God-Man. The Bible Teaches these Great Truths, and we by a child-like faith, must simply accept them!
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
27,399
14,835
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The Holy Trinity in 1 John 5:7
OP ^

Background of 1 John IS "IN contextual perspective" A RECAP, According to John..."his experience, his testimony,
And his knowledge of other men who shared his same "eyewitnessing" and "experience" and "testimony" and "believing trust".

1 John 1:
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Forwarding to Chapter 5, John's eyewitnessing, experience, trusted belief continues.

1 John 5:
[6] This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
[9] If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Johns' "Understanding" of the "THREE" that bare WITNESS"... "ARE" the "THREE DESCRIBED" (Son, Father, Holy Spirit); WHO ARE "ONE" (Lord God Almighty).

In the OT we learn, God Himself, has a "Council", which IS: God Himself:
( His Word/Lord,
His Will/God,
His Spirit/Almighty )
IS His OWN COUNCIL.

HIS OWN Council...
Creates, Makes, Changes His creations, Preserves His creations, Destroys His creations, Testifies of His creations, Blesses His creations, Rewards His creations, Keeps Records of His creations, Judges His creations, (According to the Evidence of His Records).

An Introductory "tid-BIT'.
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us...

From Beginning of Scripture to the Ending of Scripture..."the "US" is reveled, by descriptions, Names, Titles.

The Ending; THREE who ARE ONE.

Rev 4:
[
8] ...Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Glory to God,

Taken
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
The Holy Trinity in 1 John 5:7
OP ^

Background of 1 John IS "IN contextual perspective" A RECAP, According to John..."his experience, his testimony,
And his knowledge of other men who shared his same "eyewitnessing" and "experience" and "testimony" and "believing trust".

1 John 1:
[1] That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Forwarding to Chapter 5, John's eyewitnessing, experience, trusted belief continues.

1 John 5:
[6] This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
[9] If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Johns' "Understanding" of the "THREE" that bare WITNESS"... "ARE" the "THREE DESCRIBED" (Son, Father, Holy Spirit); WHO ARE "ONE" (Lord God Almighty).

In the OT we learn, God Himself, has a "Council", which IS: God Himself:
( His Word/Lord,
His Will/God,
His Spirit/Almighty )
IS His OWN COUNCIL.

HIS OWN Council...
Creates, Makes, Changes His creations, Preserves His creations, Destroys His creations, Testifies of His creations, Blesses His creations, Rewards His creations, Keeps Records of His creations, Judges His creations, (According to the Evidence of His Records).

An Introductory "tid-BIT'.
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us...

From Beginning of Scripture to the Ending of Scripture..."the "US" is reveled, by descriptions, Names, Titles.

The Ending; THREE who ARE ONE.

Rev 4:
[
8] ...Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Glory to God,
Taken

you say, "Three Described", but not "distinct"? are you talking Modalism?
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just for fun; my two cents that is not worth much ~ May God give the increase.

Believe the question comes down to this

[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

One? One what? One Who? - To me the Father was in the beginning ; the Word was in the beginning, and the spirit of God - The Holy Ghost -

all three bear record of heavenly things. - Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. They all bear the things of the beginning and are all three bear record in heaven.​

[8] And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

The Father, Word, Holy Ghost would be agreement in purpose of one another ; just like - in earth ~ The spirit of man / water/ and blood all of these agree in one too.​

Am I wrong? Probably.

Do not believe I can say that the Father, the word, and the holy ghost are all persons because of these reasons.

The Father (God is spirit/consuming fire/love)
The Word of God which was with God in the beginning - is 'Word of God' - Words - the Word of God - God Spoke - Words came out - Word Created <
-> Before ever entering flesh.
The Holy Spirit (God's spirit - Holy Spirit of God) - Holy Ghost - How is a Ghost a person?

it is very hard to call them persons for me - though do agree they were all in the beginning, and bear witness of heavenly things. - With no discourse in between.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
27,399
14,835
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
To my absolute shock this week... I discovered that some people identify as Christian... yet do not believe Jesus is God.
For me the Trinity is so easy to understand... ONE GOD in three persons. I don't have trouble understanding or believing that
Jesus is God... It just sits as truth in my understanding and in my spirit.

Everything...EVERYTHING...God has Offered Mankind IS GOOD.
Everything...EVERYTHING...Good God has Offered Mankind; Satan and His Evil Demons spirits followers and Wicked (mankind) followers...HAVE since the beginning (of mankind) TO THIS DAY, have Attempted, have Succeeded...in Undermining, wrecking, choking, oppressing, twisting, subverting, tricking...thier LIES to be Believed as TRUTHS.

Man...peacemaker of the world...pfff
Man...savior of the planet...pfff
Man...savior of man....pfff
Marriage...men & men/ woman & woman..pfff
Rainbow...symbol of homosexuality...pfff
Christian...follower of Christ...pfff
Speak Gods Word....mask, silence...pfff
Punish wrong....reward wrong...pfff

Everything Good God Offered, Provided...
IS foretold... WILL BECOME Worldly Turned INTO A LIE.
YES...the "SHOCKING PART"... "IS", observed by "those" "IN CHRIST".

But do not be troubled...IT MUST BE SO.
"IT IS", the EXPRESS intent for God to DIVIDE, SEPARATE, those "WITHOUT HIM" away from those "WITH" Him.

Every man IS exercising his OWN FREEWILL, to MAKE KNOWN, TO God...and TO those IN Christ....they WHO ARE "openly revealing":
Their Freewill election TO BE, divided and separated "away from";
the Lord God Almighty.

THEY, shall be Among the "MANY" in the end...
IN SHOCK, with a pocket full of "useless" EXCUSES.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2021
2,871
871
113
Dudley
trinitystudies.org
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Do not believe I can say that the Father, the word, and the holy ghost are all persons because of these reasons.

This might help you understand what is meant by "Person"

“A living, self-conscious being, as distinct from an animal or a thing; a moral agent” (Webster’s English Dictionary, 1913 ed)

“Definition of Personality. Personality exists where there is intelligence, mind, will, reason, individuality, self-consciousness, and self-determination. There must be not mere consciousness—for the beast has that—but self-consciousness. Nor is personality determination—for the beast has this, too, even though this determination be the result of influences from without—but self-determination, the power by which man from an act of his own free will determines his acts from within. Neither corporeity nor substance, as we understand these words, are necessarily, if at all, involved in personality. There may be true personality without either or both of these. (William Evans, The Great Doctrines of the Bible, p.22)

“PERSONALITY. In the first place, we endeavor to establish the personality of the Holy Spirit. By this we here mean that the Holy Spirit is a real being, possessing intelligence, and performing personal actions; not, however, a being distinct and separate in essence from the Father. We understand the one undivided essence or being in the Godhead to exist in three distinct persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We would prove the personality of the Holy Ghost, 1. By the appellations; 2. By the actions; 3. By the honors, ascribed to him. If these be such as can only be applicable to a real and personal existence, then the inference will be clear that the Holy Spirit is a real and personal being, and not a mere abstract attribute, energy, or influence.”(Thomas Ralston - Elements of Divinity, p.40)
 

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,575
5,513
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay, thank you. As long it ,akes you happy with what you believe