The Horror of Divorce - Til Death Do Us Part?

[Rita]

Many congratulations on your marriage , I have known quite a few long standing marriages. However I think it is a real blessing for any marriage to survive in this broken world. I am divorced, but I don’t feel
branded. Like many of the divorces that are mentioned, mine needed to happen and I have no regrets.
God can use any of our circumstances for good. If you go back to the Old Testament, how many within Israel had more than one wife , including King David who was ‘ A man after Gods own heart ‘ - so what does that tell us about relationships. I think many with long standing marriages can sometimes have a sense of pride because of the achievements and years they are together, but the truth is that others may well be dealt a different hand to play and the results end differently not because they haven’t equally tried but because the factors involved were impossible to mend.
Divorce is never an easy option to face and can push your resilience to the limit - surviving is just as much of an achievement.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, the RCC church does not allow divorce. So, logically, the divorce rate will be lower, but happiness in marriage? Who knows.

That's an interesting question, actually.
If you take divorce off the table, what effect does that have on a marriage?
Which is worse, the potential of feeling trapped, or constantly having one foot outside the door? (flight risk)

 

[St. SteVen]

I am divorced, but I don’t feel
branded. Like many of the divorces that are mentioned, mine needed to happen and I have no regrets.

Thanks for your testimony. (again)
I seem to recall that you are not part of a physical church fellowship.
If that is so, how would your marital past affect your comfort level in joining a church?
I think that's where the branded aspect comes in. Perhaps your solution was to leave. ???
Let me know if I misunderstand your position, thanks.

 

[Rita]

Thanks for your testimony. (again)
I seem to recall that you are not part of a physical church fellowship.
If that is so, how would your marital past affect your comfort level in joining a church?
I think that's where the branded aspect comes in. Perhaps your solution was to leave. ???
Let me know if I misunderstand your position, thanks.

I was part of a fellowship when I divorced and I had absolutely no problem from my brothers and sisters in Christ, no branding of any kind. They knew the situation and why the decision was made. I left the church fellowship many years later for completely different reasons.

 

[St. SteVen]

Approximately 25% of Christian marriages end in divorce, which reflects a rising trend in recent years.
Among Protestant Christians, the divorce rate is notably higher, with about 51% experiencing divorce,
while actively practicing Catholics have a lower rate of around 19%.

Sources:
myhoustondivorce.lawyer

ifstudies.org

I wonder about these statistics.
Is the divorce rate listed only for those still in the church?
If so, the actual Catholic figures may be considerably higher.
If those with a divorce have left the Church. Same with Protestants.
Considerably higher if many left the church. ???

 

[Bob]

Thank you all for the commments.

God tells that “24 a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh,” and Jesus repeated it, so it must be important.

Some takeaways:
* God is telling us that lifelong married men & women, and their families, are the foundation for the best communities (“Love Thy Neighbor” communities).
* Any sex outside convenant marriage undermines the community. (Includes same-sex sex.)
* The foundation for a successful marriage seems to be a man and woman desiring to take care of each other (and their offspring): anything else can contribute (feeling good, common interests, work well together, . . .), but without the base, the journey can be too rough.

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

Some takeaways:
* God is telling us that lifelong married men & women, and their families, are the foundation for the best communities (“Love Thy Neighbor” communities).
* Any sex outside convenant marriage undermines the community. (Includes same-sex sex.)
* The foundation for a successful marriage seems to be a man and woman desiring to take care of each other (and their offspring): anything else can contribute (feeling good, common interests, work well together, . . .), but without the base, the journey can be too rough.

How much of that is a spiritualizing of western culture?
Would those same takeaways work in the OT? (or the NT for that matter) ???

Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?

Why does the Apostle Paul require that church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if polygamy wasn't common in the church? Titus 1:5-6 ESV This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Deborah_]

Please share testimonies here of successful marriages and
young married couples committed to the long-term. Thanks.

My husband and I have been married for 43 and a half years. Still seem to be going strong.

On the face of it, we didn't seem to be all that compatible (other than both being Christians). I am a doctor; my husband left school at 16. My background is middle-class (my father was a solicitor); he was working-class (his father worked in a print shop). God brought us together by bringing us into the same church. When I declined to go out with future HB, God threw us together by causing an issue with my car brakes - so I asked future HB (who fixed cars as a hobby) to take a look. He found nothing wrong - and the rest, as they say, is history...

 

[Bob]

How much of that is a spiritualizing of western culture?
Would those same takeaways work in the OT? (or the NT for that matter) ???

Does the "husband of one wife" requirement mean that polygamy was common in the early church?

Why does the Apostle Paul require that church Elders be the "husband of one wife" if polygamy wasn't common in the church? Titus 1:5-6 ESV This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— 6 if anyone is...

www.christianityboard.com

Thank you for the questions.

First, a review of cultures and communities across the globe will reveal the Importance of lifelong marriages to their stability.
(Common thread: belief that the spiritual world is as real as the physical world, even in the absence of monotheism.)

Second, Judaism and Christianity both document the type of behavior God expects, including the behavior between the sexes. For me that structure is important, rather than strict tradition or “because that is the way we are.” But: what happens to a society when there are too many deviations, like polygamy or divorce or . . . ?

On the other hand, as it happens, in both my mother‘s and father’s families and extended families, which are more secular than religious, it was assumed you would marry and raise a family. Divorce was rare. My good fortune was that God was looking after me and guiding before I knew it!

(Not sure I completely addressed Western spirituality.)

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

(Not sure I completely addressed Western spirituality.)

You seem to still be imposing western social values on the situation and considering them to be spiritual.
In NT times, the men owned their wives as property and had servant slaves and concubines as their property as well.
Polygamy was also common. I'm not promoting any of this, but there is no scriptural directives against it. (slavery either)
Therefore no reason to spiritualize it. Polygamy laws in the USA are not biblical. (same with divorce) IMHO

Ephesians 6:5-9 NIV
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear,
and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you,
but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one
for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way.
Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master
and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

 

[Jack]

Ephesians 6:5-9 NIV
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear,
and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you,
but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one
for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way.
Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master
and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Do you believe that's God's Word? Yes or no, not STV smokescreen.

 

[St. SteVen]

Do you believe that's God's Word?

It's actually Paul's words.
Or actually an English Bible translators words based on Paul's words.

You really have no idea where the Bible came from, do you?

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...

www.bereanpatriot.com

 

[Jack]

It's actually Paul's words.
Or actually an English Bible translators words based on Paul's words.

You really have no idea where the Bible came from, do you?

I do. It came from God. That's why it's coming to pass right under your nose.

Majority Text vs. Critical Text vs. Textus Receptus - Textual Criticism 101 - Berean Patriot

There are three major competing Greek sources to use for translating the New Testament: the Critical Text, the Majority Text, and the Textus Receptus. The science of assembling these manuscripts is called “Textual Criticism”, and you can consider this a complete Textual Criticism 101 article...

www.bereanpatriot.com

Oh that's right, you said you don't trust the Bible! I don't trust those who don't trust the Bible. Not at all!

 

[Bob]

You seem to still be imposing western social values on the situation and considering them to be spiritual.
In NT times, the men owned their wives as property and had servant slaves and concubines as their property as well.
Polygamy was also common. I'm not promoting any of this, but there is no scriptural directives against it. (slavery either)
Therefore no reason to spiritualize it. Polygamy laws in the USA are not biblical. (same with divorce) IMHO

Ephesians 6:5-9 NIV
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear,
and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you,
but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.
7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,
8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one
for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way.
Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master
and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Thanks for the comments.

You may have a point: the prohibition against polygamy and slavery are relatively new Western ideas, and originated from Christians. However, as many a pastor has noted, the Bible always describes the problems in a polygamous family, and some slavery was voluntary. The focus of the Apostle Paul was on bringing people to Christ and knowing that could and would change hearts (e.g., Philemon).

Note: polygamous marriages and slavery were always indicators of wealthy individuals and social hierarchy. If they were rare in some indigenous communities, it might have been for economic reasons.

So: what are we to conclude as Christians? Has God been speaking to us about His expectations for our communities? Surely monogamy and equality under the law are good things. Where else could these ideas have come from?

Blessings.

 

[St. SteVen]

So: what are we to conclude as Christians? Has God been speaking to us about His expectations for our communities? Surely monogamy and equality under the law are good things. Where else could these ideas have come from?

If they were His expectations, seems He would have spoken up sooner?

You are starting to see the point though.

What other things in our western society do we falsely attribute a spiritual meaning?

I mentioned divorce earlier. Western society allows it. How does God feel about that?

Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO Let's discuss. Questions: 1) What did Jesus actually say? 2) Why did he say it? 3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here? The position of the church and society...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Lambano]

What other things in our western society do we falsely attribute a spiritual meaning?

Ahh, but sometimes you have to apply basic spiritual principles to new situations.

 

[Bob]

For the moment, I will set aside your excellent “what else“ question, which deserves some hard thought and self-reflection.

Regarding His expectations, maybe they are there, but not in the form of Leviticus verses.

Jesus clarified much with the two great commandments. John Wesley in turn helped us with three succinct precepts:
#1: Do no harm.
#2: Do good.
#3: Attend upon the ordinances of God

God decisively said “Do not commit adultery“; that is obviously harmful and definitely forbidden. If there are no similar prohibitions against polygamy and divorce, then perhaps He means for us to test each situation against the first two of Wesley’s precepts. That seems to work for divorce, but polygamy?

Progress?

Peace.

 

[St. SteVen]

Ahh, but sometimes you have to apply basic spiritual principles to new situations.

Hopefully more often than "sometimes". - LOL

But you make a good point. How do we view the things that a progressing society throws at us?
New things aren't always good things.

 

[St. SteVen]

God decisively said “Do not commit adultery“; that is obviously harmful and definitely forbidden. If there are no similar prohibitions against polygamy and divorce, then perhaps He means for us to test each situation against the first two of Wesley’s precepts. That seems to work for divorce, but polygamy?

Concerning Polygamy:

Adultery is sex with the wife of another man.
If a man has several wives, he need not seek another man's wife.

Concerning divorce:

Malachi 2:16
“I hate divorce,” says the Lord, the God of Israel,
“because the man who divorces his wife covers his garment with violence,”

Matthew 19:8
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard.
But it was not this way from the beginning.

 

[St. SteVen]

Regarding His expectations, maybe they are there, but not in the form of Leviticus verses.

Subjects such as slavery are to be viewed contextually.
In the Sabbath commandment are mentioned, "your male or female servant"
These servants were slaves.

The abolition of slavery in the USA had to do with the crimes of the slave trade.

Exodus 20:8-11 NIV
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God.
On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter,
nor your male or female servant, nor your animals,
nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth,
the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Progress?

Yes.